Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله


  • Posts

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won


Posts posted by Flying_Eagle

  1. 25 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

    I never said so, I simply said that we have been taught how to supplicate by our aimmah (عليه السلام). 

    For sure, I hope that I am granted the intercession of the prophet and his family (peace be upon them all) 

    Well, if you don't say then, it's alright. 


    25 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

    No. Where are you getting these statements from?

    I thought that you believe that when we say "Ya Ali Madad", we believe "Ali as deity" that's not the case we say it with intention of "intercession". 


    28 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

    Actually you were the one who brought forward the example as some kind of proof. I just corrected your mistranslation of the expression in Arabic (apparently you thought it meant 'Oh Muhammad')

    Well, you win here. But I wasn't wrong that they said it with the intention that Prophet may make dua to console their hearts, so either way taking names as intercession is not wrong. I hope we agree now. There is no need to fight. I think.

  2. 19 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

    I know you didn't, rather you seemed to consider it an 'ungrateful' and arrogant act. Truly strange

    Well, considering that you don't need an intercession, is an ungrateful and arrogant act. 


    21 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

    I don't see the relevance of this comment since 'what is in the heart' was not something I discussed

    Relevance is that "You assumed saying Ya Ali Madad is irrelevant because whoever says it makes him equal to Allah (عزّ وجلّ) God-forbid!"

    But you made an analogy while we say "Ya Ali Madad like Sahaba said "Wa Muhammada" both are cries in agony or stress and both mean that they pray for our ease for which Quran allows. So, you thought you know our intent but you are wrong brother. I corrected you. 

  3. 1 minute ago, Mahdavist said:

    I never came up with the issue, I simply informed the brother who opened the thread that this practice doesn't come from our aimmah (عليه السلام). 

    Like I said, if you want to follow your own methodology then it's your choice.  

    You could have simply said this in the beginning instead of having a strange rant about how hajj is about calling on Prophet Ibrahim (عليه السلام) for help and how supplicating to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is somehow an 'ungrateful' and arrogant act (despite hundreds of verses and narrations telling us to do so).

    Truly incredible. 

    Well, you are arrogant brother, I won't console your heart by saying you lie. Since you think that you know Niyah of the people when they say ya Ali Madad, while Allah says the secrets of heart are known to me. Sidelining importance of intercession without which you never know Islam. I didn't say God doesn't listen prayer of an ordinary person when he solely calls upon him. But God definitely distaste one who tries to say he knows what people have in heart and don't call by intercession. 

  4. 35 minutes ago, Guest Qais said:

    Not funny? She said no hate and you’re making fun of her? Why is this post not deleted?

    Am I hating? I am giving you food for thought. Besides, some extremely handsome pious men did  hide themselves. Hazrat Yusuf (عليه السلام) for instance in prison and Hazrat Musa Burqiya, one of beautiful brother of our Imams concealed his face. 

  5. 2 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

    I didn't deny tawassul, I simply said that I supplicate in the way that the aimmah (عليه السلام) taught us. You seem to have an issue with that, although I don't know why any Shi'a would.

    I am not looking for what's absent in the Qur'an, what interests me as an aspiring Shi'i is what is present in it and in the teachings of the ma'soomeen (عليه السلام)

    Like I mentioned, what interests me is how they supplicated and we know this through the supplications that they (عليه السلام) passed down to us. It is you who chooses to follow a later model of supplication which the aimmah (عليه السلام) didn't teach. 

    What has any if this got to do with 'ya Ibrahim madad'? The talbiyah that has been passed down to us for the hajj is as follows:

    Labbayk, Allahumma labbayk

    Labbayka la shareeka laka labbayk

    Innal hamda wal ni'mata laka wal mulk

    La shareeka laka labbayk


    And somehow from all of this you get: 'Ya Ibrahim Madad'

    I already told you before brother, the school of thought I believe in takes it's teachings from the Qur'an and the Ahlulbayt. 

    You can feel free to supplicate to who you want and how you want, I will continue to supplicate to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) in the way taught by the aimmah (عليه السلام). If you have an objection to it then your problem is with Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and the teachings of the ma'soomeen. 

    I don't understand why anyone would object to supplicating to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and referring to the guidance of the ahlulbayt (عليه السلام). 

    Alhamdulillah there can be no greater honour than to stand behind the veil of the ahlulbayt (عليه السلام). InshaAllah one day you will also be guided to it. 

    You might need to check your copy of the Qur'an more carefully though, to locate the verse that equates hajj to supplicating to Prophet Ibrahim (عليه السلام) and asks you to supplicate to Imam Ali (عليه السلام). 

    The problem is you come up with issues with "Ya Ali Madad", then blame me to choose this or that!

    Amazing answer. The words of Aimah are more beautiful but saying dua with different words  not opposed by Islam and with good intention is acceptable. 

    I choose both if I dont remember dua of a prophet or by Imam. 

  6. 1 hour ago, Ejaz said:

    Salaam nice response mashallah,

    what do you mean by this? What did we lose in terms of vestigial organs and fore....(excuse my language)?

    All things such as even nails and hair. This also applies to the fact that if we have excessive wealth, we must give due portions to our brothers, and it will cut our greed like we cut bad nails. 

  7. 6 hours ago, Guest Sukaina said:

    Even if it’s beating with miswak or light beating as a last resort it is still giving me dounts

    what to do?

    It is misinterpreted. The reason of it are as follows: 

    1. Word "Zarabo" means divide into two besides striking. So, it means separation and break the unity made through marriage. 

    2. If it means to beat wife, did Prophet beat any of his wife? Since Qur'an's interpretation is proved through hadith. Since, prophet never beat his any wife but believed in divorce. So, it's meaning is divorce not beating.

  8. 15 hours ago, Guest Gabriella95 said:

    Can someone list me some openminded clerics? Some who have debated hijab for women and don’t see why it’s not mandatory? I need this for a friend who is in the process of converting and is very confused about whether she will follow sunni/shia schools. She doesn’t believe in the Hijab (On her head) and thinks it has to be worn by men also if it’s so important.

    Can someone provide me with some clerics, islamic philosophers or thinkers that would say the hijab is not and obligation and are more openminded when it comes to women and their rights? I want her to convert into shia islam so i’m trying my bes to provide the best info to her.

    I’ve seen the hate on this page so please mind your own business if you find this insulting for some reason!!!

    thank you!


    If men were sensitive and less stronger than woman and their mostaches and beard had Pearls to attract woman so much that they can't resist temptations. Men would have surely worn hijabs with niqabs. 

  9. 2 hours ago, Ejaz said:


    Of course, as Muslims, we believe nothing is without purpose.

    • But what is the purpose of creating soooo many lifeless, uninhabited planets? We know that rocks are alive since they talked to Rasulullah so are atoms and planets are also alive in a way we don’t know and do they communicate with Allah?
    • Why did God create animals? They aren’t as smart as us and are not as conscious, some of the animals do very disgusting things. If it’s for them to worship God then how do animals pray to God, is it simply through going about their daily lives?
    • What about plants or insects?
    • What about parasites , viruses or the filarial nematode illness Onchocercosis, which is second most common infective cause of blindness in the world?
    • What about the notorious “vestigial organs” such as the bottom of the spine, male breasts or the forscin (excuse my language) which we have to cut after God has created it? Do these have a purpose or did they once have a purpose and now they are redundant?

    Jazakumullahu Khayran

    1. The one purpose which I think for the occurrence of life less rocks is that on the day of judgement, there will be trillions and trillions of humans and animals, earth will be very small for all of them. So, Allah (عزّ وجلّ) will recreate the earth having capacity for all his creation for accountability. 

    2. They are smart. Some of them are sweepers such as insects and crows, some eat insects in fields, some are source of food and some are source of recreation such as horses. Everyone of them teaches us wisdom in their own way.

    3. Plants gives us oxygen, source of medicine and food such as fruits and honey. Some give us fragrance and protect us from losing balance of our brain through fragrance.

    4. Diseases and viruses teach us two things: Be thankful for a healthy life and eradication of sins. 

    5. Through this God shows us sometimes we lose something but it's for good. So, accept your losses, they will benefit you someday.

  10. 2 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

    Like I mentioned before 'wa Muhammada' has nothing to do with intercession. It is an expression of mourning. Anyhow, even if this was your argument since when did we follow the sunnah of the sahaba? They also prayed taraweeh during the time of Imam Ali (عليه السلام), without him stopping them, but we follow the ahlulbayt and not others. 

    Imam al-Baqir (‘a) and Imam al-Sadiq (‘a) were asked about the permissibility of praying optional prayers in congregation during the nights of Ramadan. They both narrated a tradition of the Prophet (s) where he said:

    • “Verily, the offering of nafila (recommended prayers) in congregation during the nights of Ramadan is an innovation… O people! do not say nafila prayers of Ramadan in congregation…. Without doubt, performing a minor act of worship which is according to the sunna is better than performing a major act of worship which is an innovation.”

    This is about Tarawih. And, about Tawasul whom you deny, there is mention of it in Quran. And verses of Quran says seek the most pious among you to pray for you. Which is both agreed by Sahaba, Imams and Quran. There is no where in Quran or in Ahadith that Imams stops you to say Ya Ali Madad with the Niyah of intercession. So, I consider your remarks to be invalid with regards to Quran and Sunnah. 

    2 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

    We pray how the ma'soomeen taught us to, we supplicate how they taught us and in general we refer to their teachings for every aspect that they have covered. 

    They did not stop you from saying Ya Ali Madad or Ya Muhammad Madad, did they? Or did they say that prayers have fixed words. Show me where they say it? A dua has only one condition that is intent, it's not like salah that you can only say in Arabic not in urdu or add your complaints and ask for solutions. You can check Quran and hadith about that. 


    2 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

    We perform hajj because it was commanded in the Qur'an and the narrations of the Ahlulbayt. 

    I don't know where you get the idea that hajj = seeking help from Ibrahim (عليه السلام). Certainly not from the Qur'an or the ahlulbayt since neither have made such a claim. 

    So, you mean you are not indebted to Ibrahim (عليه السلام), for their sincerity and devotion for which even Allah (عزّ وجلّ) wants them to be commemorated through Hajj. 

    Allah (عزّ وجلّ) reminds you Ibrahim (عليه السلام) to take help from his lessons and you say I don't know, I dont know. At least be thankful to Hazrat Ibrahim's good traits who is teaching you how to be patient. 

    Did not Prophet (PBUHHP) said to Hazrat Abu Bakar: "Zikr of Ali is ibadah". And, you are feeling strange if someone says Ya Ali Madad. While intercession is openly mentioned and you can under the direction of Quran ask Imam Ali's Madad to pray for you like children of Yaqoob asked their help for prayer. 

    Even after these things, you have issue then perhaps we belong to two different schools of thought. 

    You keep hiding behind the veil of Ahlebait, I keep saying what Quran says. 


  11. You do Hajj which is Tawassul of Ibrahim, but you say Allah dislikes if someone says Ya Ibrahim Madad. Make dua bro and say to Allah, I dislike cirmumbulating kaba, it's like saying Ya Ibrahim Madad. You are in tawassul everytime, Quran is given by means of Muhammad deny it. Imam Ali's narrations on jurisprudence and judicial and political narrations are tawassul. Deny them, make you own Deen and seek Allah directly if you are so sure about your piety. 


  12. 14 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

    @Flying_Eagle like I said, the ma'soomeen (عليه السلام) have taught us how to supplicate (long and short supplications) in the same way as they have taught us so many other things. I strive to try and follow their teachings.

    If you want to do things differently then it's your decision, I prefer to follow what has been taught by our guides (عليه السلام)

    I'm not doing things differently that's your misunderstanding. I already gave you plenty of evidence, just bring one hadith which says Sahaba who took name "Wa Muhammada" so that Prophet Mubammad ask Allah to reduce their grief and console them-is wrong, I will gradually accept your point. 

    But if you can't, and know that intercession is part of our religion and that Prophet and Aimah are Shaheed and you call them as a living person, you show back to these verses then please. Don't give twist and turns and come back with same argument. Quran does not limit intercession to Prophet till he is alive show me any verse which says don't go to Prophet after death and seek wasilah.

    You seek wasilah of stones of Hazrat Ibrahim but disregard prophets. How wonderful of you. Why do Sae and tawaf? Of stone made buildings and kiss Hajr-e-Aswad just deny it. And, God will show you respect when you die. Know that to Allah (عزّ وجلّ) Ibrahim's sincerity is more previous then Kaaba. So, God will show you respect while you accept intercession of Kaba but not those who protected it. 

  13. 6 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

    You misunderstood 'foreign addition'. By foreign I mean it's a man made concept that one cannot find in the supplications of our aimmah (عليه السلام). 

    In the end, those who want to supplicate as the aimmah (عليه السلام) taught us will do so. Those who want to make up their own method will do so (although I don't see why someone would abandon the supplications transmitted to us by the aimmah and make up their own method instead). 

    Well, as I already told you. Dua is not limited to one method but conditions are limited. So, if you do not patience like our Imams to make a dua as they did such that in their duas whole nights were passed, even then God accepts your little duas. Allah (عزّ وجلّ) built them on His love and we have our Nafs that tires us. So, if you cannot recite dua-e-Kumail, every five prayers then even one sentence is enough. But, intercession is also part of our Deen to whom these names refers to, and since one can take name of Prophet Muhammad in grief for he may intercede for them, name of every prophet or Aimah can be taken. Don't adopt way of shaitan bro, I'm superior, I talk to boss directly. Boss listens to intercession. Don't call Ya Muhammad Adrikni on Judgement day but say to Allah (عزّ وجلّ), may I talk to you directly about which Allah says:"Allah will not speak to sinners on judgement day". So, if you pure as Prophet Muhammad bro then you can do anything. I'm a sinner and I seek intercession as directed by Allah.

  14. 1 minute ago, Mahdavist said:

    Because it's a foreign addition that doesn't come from Shia teachings. We follow the Qur'an and the Ahlulbayt since these are our references and guides. 

    Brother, no where in Quran Allah says don't pray in Farsi, urdu or other languages but teaches the conditions of prayers. So, this is illogical point. 

  15. Just now, Mahdavist said:

    What has 'Ya Ali Madad' (which by the way is not even grammatically correct in arabic) got to do with the invitation to the hypocrites for the prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) to pray for their forgiveness?

    Lolz, I think you dont want to understand. I'm saying  when most of us say "Ya Ali Madad" we ask Imam Ali to pray to Allah for our help. So, whether you say in full sentence or in phrase we mean Imam Ali or Rasol-Allah (s) to pray for us. So, why they look wrong to you? 

  16. Just now, Mahdavist said:

    I'm not seeing the link between following the teachings of our ma'soomeen and the verse you mentioned. When did anyone refuse that the prophet should pray for our forgiveness? 

    So what we do when we call upon Ya Ali Madad, how is this against the aforesaid verse? The only think that matters is what is your Niyah while you take Ahlebait's name. I don't know why have you forgotten the hadith "Acts depends on Niyah". 

  17. 3 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

    If you can present the verses you are referring to we can discuss further inshaAllah. 

    [Shakir 63:5] And when it is said to them: Come, the Messenger of Allah will ask forgiveness for you, they turn back their heads and you may see them turning away while they are big with pride.

    how are you different from them?

  18. 1 minute ago, Mahdavist said:

    The argument is simple: we supplicate in the way that the ma'soomeen taught us to in the Qur'an and in the supplications that they left behind for us. 

    If following the Qur'an and the Ahlulbayt is a weak argument then we probably have different definitions of 'weak' 

    Quran says: "Seek intercession". To whom you oppose where are you following Quran here? Did Quran say ask Prophet to pray when he is alive not after death? 

  19. In last before leaving shiachat, I would present another hadith 

    The Messenger of Allah once said to Anas, his servant boy, “My son, if you are able to always be on ablution, then do so, for the angel of death when he seizes the servant’s soul while the latter is in ablution, he records martyrdom for him.”

    Majority of Islamic sects believe that Prophet was Shaheed and same is the belief of Shias and also the Imsms were Shaheed. So, Quran says a Shaheed to be alive. Thus, if we say Ya Ali Madad or Ya Hussain Madad, we request them to intercede for us. 

    And as you can see even the person who dies in ablation is like a Shaheed and one hadith one who dies with desire if martyrdom is Shaheed. Then all these points prove your arguments weak. 

  20. 3 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

    No, it's a term used for mourning. 'Oh Muhammad' would be 'ya Muhammad' ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم))

    Whatever, but they are calling Prophet Muhammad so are you saying they were either ill or mistaken but you know everything.

  21. 1 hour ago, Mahdavist said:

    In the absence of other evidence I would say yes. 

    Agreed. Regardless of whether one considers it shirk or not, its quite clear from the supplications in the Qur'an and of the Ahlulbayt that this practice has no basis. 

    Wa Muhammada is not a call for intercession. It is a form of mourning. 


    But it's a call Oh Muhammad. Isnt it?

  22. 3 minutes ago, 786:) said:

    You're dodging the question. Even if we assume this Sahih Sittah hadith (which is fabricated by your standards) to be true, Abu Jahal's body was right in front of the Prophet. We have endless narrations about the soul being around the body after death. The Prophet didn't say Abu Jahal was all hearing or could hear from 5 miles away. So my question stands. Does Imam Ali have the attribute of all hearing and all present? It is a yes or no question.

    I gave you precise answer. But let me be more clear, Ali (عليه السلام) knows what he is taught by Allah and his prophet. His capabilities are lower than Allah and his prophet. This is one answer. The second answer is that this is only one hadith about dead listening to alive people. There are many other ahadith which mention different events of dead listening to alive persons and grieving at their positions. One instance of which i described about of Shahaba saying "Wa Muhammada" and other instances if you want I can post for you. Since at the time Sahabas didn't consider it wrong or beyond islam. How come you call them wrong. 

    Ok here is another thing, do Angel's see us and the dead? And do they hear us but not the dead? So, shall we consider angels to be God ? 

    How will you define it?

  • Create New...