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In the Name of God بسم الله

Zaidism

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  1. That which indicates the falsity of the silent call and the occultation with the immense need for the Imam is what Allah says regarding him in particular, and regarding the scholars in general: {It is only those among His servants who have knowledge that fear Allah} [35:28], and: {Indeed, those who conceal what We sent down of clear proofs and guidance after We made it clear for the people in the Scripture - those are cursed by Allah and cursed by those who curse, Except for those who repent and correct themselves and make evident [what they concealed]. Those - I will accept their repentance, and I am the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful.} [2:159-160] and this is the essence of warning and reckoning, as one can see, and the Imams are those who are most fearful of Allah, and transgression (sin) according to the twelvers is not possible for the Imams to commit. And that which we have regarding the divine promise is that their imamate becomes null, for declaration does not occur through concealment as every rational mind would concur; and with us he is needed for matters which pertain to Islamic governance, and they are not made except by the Imam, and for the twelvers the Imam is tied to the matters which pertain to the benefit of this world, and the next, to the extent that everything relies on him. Therefore, the need for his appearance, and for him to be known is much greater going by that, and it follows that concealment on his part ought to not be permissible for a moment, for there isn’t a time except that the need for him calls to fulfill its religious and worldly demands, and the All Wise - Exalted is He - does not cause us to rise towards a matter pertaining to our religion, except that He causes for us a means towards it, and considering that following the Prophet (S) is an obligation upon the imams from his sons - upon him and them be peace - in particular, how can it be otherwise so? Allah has said: {Let those who go against His [the messengers'] decree be wary} [24:63] and this matter pertains to utterances, and actions, and that is the meaning of leadership; it has been known that following his jurisdiction in religious matters is an obligation. And he (S) remained through his open decree calling the people to his Lord with the best of fair-preaching. Calling from the beginning (of receiving the message) to the end of his life. Likewise, ‘Ali and his sons, they made themselves known to the public, so as to make their being a binding proof over the people until they departed to Allah - Exalted is He - how can they hide themselves when they are the shelters in the face of uncertainty and trials in matters of religion?! For if the religion would be confined, it would not be confined to other than that which is esoteric besides the Lord. You believe that Imam Al-Mahdi is alive, and occult. He sees and is not seen, he is present with the people, and he is a proof (Hujjah) over the people, and their rescuer from damnation and chastisement; What is the sin of the confused if this is the description of the proof of Allah (Al-Hujjah), where there is no means to reach him? What is his sin in the face of his Lord, for the Imams are obliged to make themselves known, and advise the people; let alone those who seek to be in his presence and seek to increase his audience. If you say 'The Imam is a mercy, and he has not been permitted to appear.' It is necessary that either the mercy occurs, or one is able to reach it, as Allah had made for the disbeliever a means towards Him and he willingly leaves the means to inference. The Imam is not such, for we and the twelvers do not have any means to reach him, so how can it be a mercy when we cannot reach it, and Allah does not cause it to occur in the first place? None from the people of knowledge say that, and it has been fundamentally known that if the mercy is necessarily caused by the Imam, and Allah knows that the Imam will not cause that action, it follows that Allah will not hold someone with such an obligation unless he causes the action that he has been known for. Imam Ali is the best example, for we see that with the deviance of the Ummah from him, and taking the matter into their own hands ahead of him; he was never late to any processions, and he was not absent at times when a Hujjah (proof) was needed to be presented, an advice meted, a reminder given. All that is known and found within his sermons, stances, aphorisms, and letters. What is the judgement upon an Imam who does not follow the example of ‘Ali b. Abi Talib? What is the judgement placed on him by the Muslims? ‎قال الشّيخ آصف محسنيّ يتكلّم عن خبر أنّ الأرض لا تبقَى بدون إمَامٍ أو لساخَت، فتكلّم عن دور الفيض أو التّكوين وأنّه ممكنٌ من دور المهدي ، ثمّ قال : ((وإن أُريدَ جهة تشريع و تَبيين المَعارف و الأحكام، فَلا بدّ مِن‌ التَعدِّي إلى العُلماء المجهتدين القادِرين على استنباط الأحكَام الظّاهرية مِن أدلتها حتى لا تُنقض الرّوايات بعصر الغيبة التي امتدّت أكثر ألف سَنة، وربّما تمتد الى آلاف أو مَلايين السّنين. فَإن المُؤمنين لَم تنفعُوا و لا يَنتفعون من إمَامِهم الغائب- عجل الله تعالى فرجه- في الأصُول و الفروع، ومَا يُقَال بخِلاف ذَلك فَهُو تَخيّلٌ وَ توهُّمٌ وَ لَعبٌ بالعُقُول)) [مشرعة بحار الأنوار:1/407-408] . ‘Asif Muhsini states: The Ummah does not benefit from the twelfth Imam, neither in matters of Usool al-deen, nor Furu’ al-deen. He mentions that anyone who holds an opposing opinion is conflicted in understanding and is toying with their minds. ‎- وقال آصف محسنيّ في موضعٍ آخر : ((ولا يُمكن القَول بانتفاعنا منهُ (ع) في زمَن الغيبة في الأمُور الدينيّة إلّا ممَّن سَلب الله عَقله)) [مشرعة بحار الأنوار:2/223] . He further states: We cannot say that we benefit from the twelfth Imam in matters of religion (during his occultation) and whoever states such Allah has taken his mind! i.e they’re delusional. I challenge you to give me an instance in the history of revelation, and scripture where Allah did not convey His guidance to the people through face-to-face communication. Remember, Allah - Exalted is He - says: {A consistent practice of Allah in the matter of those who have gone before. And you will never find a change in Allah’s consistent practice.} [33:62] {You will never find in the way of Allah any change, and you will never find in the way of Allah any alteration.} [35:43] Allah says: {Accept whatever the Messenger gives you, and abstain from whatever he forbids you.} [59:7] and {Today, I have perfected your religion for you, and have completed My blessing upon you, and chosen Islam as Dīn (religion and a way of life) for you.} [5:3] The Messenger says: "I have been called, and I answered (my time of death has come), indeed I have left the thaqalayn (two weighty things) among you, one of them is greater form the other, the book of Allah and my 'itra (family), my ahl al-bayt (household). So look after how you will behave with them after me, indeed they will never separate from each other until they enter my presence by the pool [in the paradise]." The 'itra are the sons of Fatema - Upon her be Peace - and they do not separate from the Quran, and they certainly do not go occult to benefit the Abbasid agenda of promoting political quietism through the Imami creed. The sons of Fatema, the Imams of the Ahl al-Bayt revolted, established governments, and physically guided the people. You see the reason why the Prophet said the Quran is greater than the 'itra is because the 'itra is a means to an end. The end is to establish the Shari'ah of Allah, and in order to do so an Imam is necessary. Not that the religion should revolve around him, but that he be there to fill the need of the Ummah when it comes to leading them. There was no designation of anyone besides the first three Imams in particular, and the 'itra, as a collective community as echoed by Hadith Thaqalayn, and as maintained by [35:32] {Then We conveyed the Book as an heritage to those of Our slaves whom We chose. Now, some of them are those who wrong their own selves, and some of them take the middle course, and some of them are those who outpace (others) in righteous deeds with Allah’s permission. That is the great bounty} Check Tafsir Mizan, check 'Uyun Akhbar Al-Ridha, check Amali al-Saduq; you will find that even in your authentic Hadiths this verse is interpreted as referring to the sons of Fatema (collectively). {Moses said to them, ‘Beware, do not invent lies against God or He will destroy you with His punishment. Whoever invents lies will fail.} [20:61] {the weakest of houses} [29:41]
  2. Then we caused to inherit the Book those We have chosen of Our servants; and among them is he who wrongs himself, and among them is he who is moderate, and among them is he who is foremost in good deeds by permission of Allah. That [inheritance] is what is the great bounty. {35:32}
     

  3. You take Hadith from a Kafir for your jurisprudence? You are quoting Imam Qasim who explicitly states In his book تثبيت الامامة found in volume 2, pages 191-192 of his مجموع that the designated Imams are 3. Therefore, what he means by هل بيننا وبينكم اختلاف is in terms of taking our Hadith from them saying that if they did indeed say this of themselves or believe this in themselves, we wouldn't have taken knowledge from them. Moreover, when he says: فلو أردنا أن نجحد الحقّ لجحدناهم من بعد الحسين بن علي، وصيّرناه في أهل بيت النبي (صلى الله عليه وآله) عامّةً Meaning that if your claim that they're designated is true we wouldn't have followed them as Imams of 'ilm and ijtihad. What he meant by: وصيّرناه في أهل بيت النبي, is explained by him ((عليه السلام)) قالَ الإمَام نجم آل الرّسول القَاسم بن إبراهيم بن إسماعيل بن إبراهيم بن الحسن بن الحسن بن علي بن أبي طالب عليهم السلام ، (169-246هـ) : ((ويُقَال للرّوافض : أخبرُونَا عَن أهل بَيت رَسُول الله صلّى الله عليه وعليهم مُشركُون أو كفّار أو مُسلِمُون ؟!. فَإن زَعمتم أنّهم مُسلمُون. يُقَال: فقد أجمَع أهلُ بَيت رَسول الله صلى الله عَليه وعَليهم وسلّم وعُلماؤهُم بأنّكم عَلى غَير طَريقَة الإسلام [أي النّهج الإسلاميّ الصّحيح] . فَإن زَعمُوا بأنّهم قَد يَعلمُونَ الحقّ، ويجحدُون حَسَداً مِنهًم . يُقَال لَهم : فَنحنُ نَرى مِنهُم أنّهم إذا استبان لَهم مِن أحَدٍ مِنهُم الفَضل والزّهد والعِلم انقَادُوا لَه، وأقرّوا بفضلِه، ونَزلُوا عِند حُكمِه، فَكيفَ حَسَدوا صَاحِبَكم، ولَم يَحسدُوا ذَاك ؟! فَلو كانَ الأمر على مَا وَصفتُم أنّه لا يَمنَعهم مِن الإقرَار إلاّ الحسَد لكَانوا لا يُقرّون لأحَد! وكلّ وَاحِد مِنهم يجرّ إلى نفسِه، ولا يُقرّ بفَضل صَاحبِه. ولكن كَذبتُم عَليهِم، لأنّا قَد رَأينا قَولَهم يُصدِّقه كِتاب الله، وقولُكم يُكذِّبه كِتاب الله، وهُم أولَى بالصِّدق منكُم، ونحن نَرى مِنهُم مِنَ الزّهد مَالا نَرى مِن غَيرهِم، فَهُم أعَرف بأهلِ بِيتهِم مِنكُم، وهُم أعرفُ بعضِهم لبَعض مِنكَ يَا مُدّعِي مَا ادعيتَ بالبَاطِل، وتُريدُ أن نَقبلَ بَاطِلَك بِغير بَيان ولا بُرهَان، ونُكذِّب أهل بَيت النّبي صلّى الله عليه وآله!) He is saying if we accept the beliefs you're sharing, then you are claiming all of the Ahl al-Bayt are disbelievers, because during his time (169-246) the entirety of the Ahl al-Bayt and the scholars of the 'itrah reached a consensus that those who were purporting beliefs of designation have deviated from the path of the Prophet and his pure progeny. That is why he is saying: فلو أردنا أن نجحد الحقّ لجحدناهم من بعد الحسين بن علي، وصيّرناه في أهل بيت النبي, meaning that if we wanted to conspire against them then we simply would have disregarded the Imams you claim after Imam Hussein and we wouldn't take Hadith from them, we wouldn't consider them to have any weight in our creed, etc. However, he says: فقد أجمَع أهلُ بَيت رَسول الله صلى الله عَليه وعَليهم وسلّم وعُلماؤهُم بأنّكم عَلى غَير طَريقَة الإسلام [أي النّهج الإسلاميّ الصّحيح] but in reality it is you who is going against the entirety of the Ahl al-Bayt, including the Imams that you claim to be designated. Your understanding is self-contradicting and self-deluding, for two reasons (1) we do not deny that there are members from the pure progeny who guide in every era with their writings, words, and leadership (2) what is the point of having a Hujjah of Allah on earth that fundamentally does nothing to help the Shi'ah? الكافي - الكليني - ج ١ - الصفحة ١٧٨ إن الأرض لا تخلو إلا وفيها إمام، كيما إن زاد المؤمنون شيئا ردهم، وإن نقصوا شيئا أتمه لهم. The world is never left without an Imam, for whenever the believers exceed in a matter he reprimands them, and when they decrease in an matter he fulfils it for them i.e guides them to fulfilling any gap in religion. This narrative was pushed for the first 11 Imams, but it now has to be redefined because the 12th Imam will never reprimand anyone, nor well he fulfil anything for anyone during his time of occultation; the understanding you give of a Hujjah under scrutiny is nothing but mere sophistry. An Imammi narrating poetry from Imam Zayd 300 years after him? How about we go to the مجموع of Imam Zayd: وقال يرثي أخاه أبو جعفر محمد بن علي الباقر - عليهما السلام: يا موت أنت سلبتني آلفا قدمته وتركتني خلفا وا حزننا لا نلتقي أبدًا حتى نقوم لربنا صفا Found on page 400 of his مجموع Moreover, even if we say that the poetry you shared - Narrated by a twelver scholar centuries later - was actually said by Imam Zayd, it again proves nothing because Imam Baqir was indeed a great Imam of 'ilm, but to argue that this proves his Imamate is dubious. You have (twelver) scholars to this day discussing whether Imam Zayd called to his imamate or the imamate of Ja'far Al-Sadiq. The Hadith I mentioned in this thread suffices to mention his ignorance over any such designation:
  4. رَبَّنَا لَا تُزِغْ قُلُوبَنَا بَعْدَ إِذْ هَدَيْتَنَا وَهَبْ لَنَا مِن لَّدُنكَ رَحْمَةً ۚ إِنَّكَ أَنتَ الْوَهَّابُ

  5. It’s also important to note @Cool that we’re not discussing whether he called to his Imamate or not, rather the point is he never claimed to be designated, nor did he designate. The designated Imams by the Prophet are only three, afterwards it is in the sons of Imam Hassan and Imam Hussein. Not ending at a twelfth imam where the entire Shari’ah of Allah is halted for thousands of years.
  6. What lies are YOU spewing? Sirat al-Najat 2/452: يقول الخوئي: الروايات المتواترة الواصلة إلينا من طريق العامة والخاصة قد حددت الأئمة عليهم السلام باثني عشر من ناحية العدد ولم تحددهم بأسمائهم عليهم السلام واحداً بعد واحد، حتى لا يمكن فرض الشك في الإمام اللاحق بعد رحلة الإمام السابق، بل قد تقتضي المصلحة في ذلك الزمان اختفاءه والتستر عليه لدى الناس؛ بل لدى أصحابهم عليهم السلام إلا أصحاب السر لهم، وقد اتفقت هذه القضية في غير هذا المورد والله العالم 453 كتاب صراط النجاة ج2 ص Al Khoei says : The authentic mutawatir narrations that reached us through the public (’Ammah - Mainstream Muslims) and private (Khassah – Twelver Shia) paths have defined the imams, peace be upon them, to twelve in terms of number and did not specify them by their names, peace be upon them one by one, so that suspicion cannot be imposed on the later Imam after the previous Imam's journey, but it may require interest at that time that he hid and concealed it among the people. But among their companions, peace be upon them, except those who have the secret for them and this issue has been agreed upon in other than this resource. Sirat al-Najat 2, p. 452-3
  7. He’s saying we haven’t differed in taking knowledge from these great personalities, as for the Hadiths you mentioned Imam Sajjad isn’t any ordinary personality. However, there isn’t anything you shared which remotely mention him عليه السلام being a designated Imam.
  8. Sure, Hadith 1: Ibn Qawlawiyah, with his chain, narrated from Abi Dharr Al-Ghafari said: I saw the messenger of Allah - صلى الله عليه واله وسلم - embracing Al-Hassan, and Al-Hussein - عليهما السلام - while he says: He who loves Al-Hussein, Al-Hussein, and their progenies sincerely; the fire will not touch their faces even if his sins are as much as the grains of sand, unless his sin was a sin that removes him from faith. Source: Kāmil al-zīyārāt, 49 Grading: Saheeh Hadith 2: Sheikh Al-Tūsī narrates, with his chain, from Abī Baseer, narrated from Abī ‘Abdullah Ja’far b. Muhammad عليهما السلام, from his forefathers, from ‘Ali عليه السلام, he said: The Messenger of Allah (Peace be upon him and his progeny) said: O’ ‘Ali when I was taken to the heavens the angels came to me from every heaven with glad tidings… He looked at the third and chose Fatema over the women of the worlds, he then looked at the fourth and chose Al-Hassan and Al-Hussein, and the Imams from their sons over the men of the worlds. Source: Āmālī Al-Tūsi, 642 Grading: Saheeh Hadith 3: Al-Hakim Al-Hiskani narrates with his chain from Abī Hāmza Al-Thumālī, from ‘Ali b. Al-Hussein, he said: I was sitting alongside him (‘Ali b. Al-Hussein) and two men from Al-‘Iraq came to him saying: O’ son of the Messenger of Allāh we have came to you so that you could inform us of some verses in the Holy Quran. He said: And what are they? They said: The saying of Allāh - Exalted is He - {And we have caused to inherit the book those whom we have favoured from our servants}… He said [Al-Sajjad]: Who unsheathes his sword and calls to the way of his Lord. Source: Shawāhid Al-Tanzīl [2/157] Note: Unsheathing the sword means to make your call to Imāmate known, as for the interpretation of the verse in question it is 35:32. What Imam Sajjad عليه السلام is doing, is that he’s interpreting the third stage of the three mentioned in 35:32, the third being the foremost in deeds and that is the one who is deserving of Imāmate from the Ahl al-Bayt عليهم السلام Hadith 4: Sheikh Al-Saduq narrates with his chain from Abī Hāmza Al-Thumālī, he said: We were sitting in Masjid Al-Haram with Abī Ja'far (عليه السلام) when two men from Al-Basrah came to him, the said: O' son of the Messenger of Allah we would like to inquire over a matter, he said to them: Ask of that which you came seeking: Inform us of the saying of Allah: {And so, We have bestowed this divine writ as a heritage unto such of Our servants as We chose: and among them are some who sin against themselves; and some who keep half-way [between right and wrong]; and some who, by God’s leave, are foremost in deeds of goodness: [and] this, indeed, is a merit most high} [35:32] He said: It has been revealed regarding us the Ahl al-Bayt, Abī Hāmza said: May my father and mother be ransomed for you, who are those who keep the half-way? He said: He who worships Allah until certainty reaches him, I said: Who is the foremost in deeds of goodness? He said: He who calls to the way of his Lord, enjoins good and forbids evil; and does not become to the deviators a supporter, and not for the traitors an aid, and does not accept the rulership of the open sinning rulers unless he fears for himself, his religion, and does not find any supporters. Source: Ma'ani Al-Akhbar يروي الشيخ الصدوق بإسناده ، عن أبي حمزة الثمالي قال : كنت جالسا في المسجد الحرام مع أبي جعفر (عليه السلام) إذ أتاه رجلان من أهل البصرة فقالا له : يا بن رسول الله إنا نريد أن نسألك عن مسألة فقال لهما : اسألا عما جئتما . قالا : أخبرنا عن قول الله عز وجل : (ثم أورثنا الكتاب الذين اصطفينا من عبادنا فمنهم ظالم لنفسه ومنهم مقتصد ومنهم سابق بالخيرات بإذن الله ذلك هو الفضل الكبير )) إلى آخر الآيتين . قال : نزلت فينا أهل البيت. قال أبو حمزة فقلت : بأبي أنت وأمي فمن … ، المقتصد منكم ؟ قال : العابد لله ربه في الحالين حتى يأتيه اليقين . فقلت : فمن السابق منكم بالخيرات؟ قال : مَن دَعا والله إلى سَبيل ربه وأمرَ بالمعروف ، ونَهى عن المنكر ، ولم يَكُن للمُضلِّين عَضُداً . ولا للخَائنين خَصيما ، ولم يَرض بحُكم الفَاسقين إلاّ منْ خَافَ على نَفسِه ودِينه ولم يجد أعْوَاناً)) [ معاني الأخبار:105] Grading: Saheeh
  9. Well, no. He has the pre-requisites, what is left is to call for himself like Imam Zayd, or Imam Ridha.
  10. روي الشّيخ الصّدوق بإسنادِه ، حَدّثنا عُبيدالله بن عَبد الله بن الحسَن بن جَعفر بن الحسن بن الحسن بن علي قال : سَألت عَلي بن مُوسى بن جَعفر عليهم السلام عمّا يُقَال في بني الأفطَس؟!. فَقال : ((إنّ الله عَزّ وَجلّ أخرَج مِن بَني إسرَائيل وَهُو يَعقُوب بن إسحَاق بن إبراهيم عليه السلام اثني عشَر سِبطاً وَجعلَ فِيهِم النبوّة والكِتاب [أي قبيلَةً يَنتسبون إلى اثنَي عَشر رجلاً من أبناء يعقوب] ، وَنشرَ مِنَ الحسَن والحسين ابنَي أمير المُؤمنين عليهم السلام مِن فاطمة بِنت رسول الله صلى الله عليه واله اثني عشَر سِبطاً ، ثمّ عَد الاثني عشَر مِن وَلد إسرائيل فقال : رُوبيل بن يعقوب ، وشَمعون بن يعقوب ، ويهودا ابن يعقوب ، ويَشاجر بن يعقوب ، وزيلون بن يعقوب ، ويُوسف بن يعقوب ، وبنيامين بن يعقوب ، ونفتالى بن يَعقوب ، ودَان بن يعقوب ، وسقط عن أبي الحسن النّسابة ثلاثة مِنهم ، ثمّ عَدّ الاثني عَشر مِن ولد الحسن والحسين عليهما السلام فقال : أما الحسَن فَانتشر مِن ستّة أبطُن وَهُم بَنو الحسن بن زَيد بن الحسَن بن عَلي ، وبَنو عبد الله بن الحسن بن الحسن بن عَلي ، وبَنو إبراهيم بن الحسن بن الحسن بن علي ، وبنو الحسن بن الحسن بن الحسن بن علي ، وبَنو داود بن الحسن بن الحسن بن علي ، وبنو جعفر بن الحسن بن الحسن علي ، فَعقب الحسن بن علي مِن هَذه السّتة الأبطُن ، ثمّ عَد بَني الحسين عليه السلام فقال : بَنو محمّد بن عَلي الباقر بن علي بن الحسين عليهم السلام بَطن ، وبَنو عبد الله ابن الباهر بن علي ، وبَنو زيد بن علي بن الحسين ، وبَنو الحسين بن علي بن الحسين بن علي ، وبَنو عمر بن علي بن الحسين بن علي ، وبنو علي بن علي بن الحسين بن علي ، فهؤلاء الستّة الأبطن نَشر الله عَزّ وجلّ مِن الحسين بن علي عليهما السلام)) [الخصال:466] ، وهُنا تأمّل قولَ الإمَام علي بن موسَى الرّضا (ع) : ((إنّ الله عَزّ وَجلّ أخرَج مِن بَني إسرَائيل وَهُو يَعقُوب بن إسحَاق بن إبراهيم عليه السلام اثني عشَر سِبطاً وَجعلَ فِيهِم النبوّة والكِتاب)) Sheikh Al-Saduq narrated with his chain of narrators, that Obaidullah bin Abdullah bin Al-Hassan bin Jafar bin Al-Hassan bin Al-Hassan bin Ali said: I asked Ali bin Musa bin Jafar, peace be upon them, about what is said about Banu Al-Aftas? He said: “God, the Mighty and the Majestic, brought out from the Children of Israel, which is Ya`qub bin Ishaq bin Ibrahim, peace be upon him, twelve tribes, and made in them the prophethood and the book [i.e. a tribe that belong to the two men], and he spread the two men of the sons of Ya`qub among them from among the ten believers. Fatimah, the daughter of the Messenger of God, may God’s prayers and peace be upon him, and the family of twelve tribes. Then he counted the twelve sons of Israel and said: Rubel ibn Ya’qub, Simeon ibn Ya’qub, Yehuda ibn Ya’qub, Shajar ibn Ya’qub, Zilun ibn Yaqoub, Yusuf ibn Ya‘qub, Benjamin ibn Ya‘qub, and Naftali. Ibn Yaqub, Dan Ibn Yaqub, and three of them fell from the lineage of Abu al-Hasan. Then he counted the twelve sons of al-Hasan and al-Husayn, peace be upon them, and said: As for al-Hasan, it spread from six descendants, and they are the sons of al-Hasan ibn Zaid ibn al-Hasan ibn Ali, and the sons of al-Hasan ibn Abdullah ibn al-Hasan. The sons of Ali, the sons of Ibrahim Bin Al Hassan Bin Al Hassan Bin Ali, the sons of Al Hassan Bin Al Hassan Bin Al Hassan Bin Ali, the sons of Dawood Bin Al Hassan Bin Al Hassan Bin Ali, the sons of Jaafar Bin Al Hassan Bin Al Hassan Bin Ali. Al-Hussein, peace be upon him He said: The children of Muhammad bin Ali Al-Baqir bin Ali bin Ali bin Al-Hussein, peace be upon them, are a line, the children of Abdullah bin Al-Bahir bin Ali, the children of Zaid bin Ali bin Al-Hussein, the children of Al-Hussain bin Ali bin Al-Hussain bin Ali, the children of Omar bin Ali bin Al-Hussain bin Ali, and the children of Ali. Bin Ali Bin Al-Hussein Bin Ali, so these are the six innermost ones that God, the Mighty and Sublime, has spread from Al-Hussain Bin Ali, peace be upon them.” [Al-Khisal: 466] You will find that leadership and guidance is in the (collective) offspring of the group, as displayed by the Quran with the 12 Naqibs mentioned, and as explained by our dear Imam Al-Ridha. And We verily sent Noah and Abraham and placed the prophethood and the scripture among their seed, and among them there is he who goeth right, but many of them are evil-livers. {Al-Hadeed: 26} And so, We have bestowed this divine writ as a heritage unto such of Our servants as We chose: and among them are some who sin against themselves; and some who keep half-way [between right and wrong]; and some who, by God’s leave, are foremost in deeds of goodness: [and] this, indeed, is a merit most high {Faatir: 32} Yes, I agree. The Ahl al-Bayt are lanterns of light, and guidance. If you haven't already check out their works: https://alkazemalzaidy2013.wordpress.com/دليل-الباحث-إلى-علوم-أهل-البيت-ومذهبهم/ https://alkazemalzaidy2013.wordpress.com/2020/01/26/كتب-وأبحاث-الأستاذ-الكاظم-الزيدي/ https://ziydia.com/Book/169 https://ziydia.com/Book/256
  11. It is saying after the designated Imams imamate is in the general group of the sons of Imam Hassan and Hussein starting off with 'Ali b. Hussein and his sons
  12. Brother please pursue a full marriage if you cannot be patient, I highly advise to not engage in this practice.
  13. These are two Hadiths which I will share where three of the sons of 'Ali b. Hussein عليهما السلام testify that their father never designated anyone. 'Umar b. 'Ali, and Al-Hussein b. Ali I asked U’mar b. ‘Ali al-Sajjad and Hussein b.‘ Ali al-Sajjad the uncles of Ja’far Al-Sadiq: Is there a member of the Ahl al-Bayt among you whose obedience is obligatory, he who knows him, knows him and you know him, and he who doesn’t know him dies the death of ignorance? They said: No, this is not true and whoever says this about us (The Ahl al-Bayt) is a liar. I said to ‘Umar b. ‘Ali al-Sajjad: May Allāh have mercy on you, do you claim that this status (Imāmah) is a status you claim belonged to ‘Ali - as the Prophet willed it to him - after that it was to Hassan, after ‘Ali willed it to him. After that it was to Hussein, al-Hassan willed it to him. After that it belonged to ‘Ali b. Al-Hussein, after Al-Hussein willed it to him and after that it was to Muhammad b. ‘Ali, after ‘Ali b. Hussein willed it to him. ‘Umar b. ‘Ali al-Sajjad said: I swear by Allah my father had died and he did not designate anyone, may Allah curse them! They are only using our names [to push their lies]. Fudayl said: This is the product of Khunays ‘Umar b. ‘Ali al-Sajjad said: Who is Khunays? Fudayl said: Al-Mu’allā b. Khunays ‘Umar b. ‘Ali al-Sajjad said: Yes, Al-Mu’allā. By Allāh, I reflect for a lengthy period amazed by such people! Allāh took away their minds when Al-Mu’allā b. Khunays misguided them. Source: Al-Tabaqātal-Kubrā, v. 5, pg. 325 Imam Zayd b. 'Ali Zayd b. Ali b. al-Husayn عليهما السلام sent for me while he was in hiding so I went to see him. He [Zayd] said to me: O Aba Ja`far [al-Ahwal] what will you say if a knocker from among us [the family of the prophet] knocks on your door [asking for your support to fight the unjust ruler] – would you come out in revolt with him? I said to him: if it is your father [al-Sajjad] or your brother [al-Baqir] I would set out with him. He [Zayd] said to me: Verily I wish to rise up and fight these people so set out with me, I said: No, I will not do so may I be made your ransom, he said to me: do you prefer your life over mine? I said: it is only one soul [that I have] – if Allah does indeed have a Hujja [proof] on the earth [whose existence you deny] then the one who stays back from joining you is saved and the one who joins you is destroyed [for revolting without the permission of the Hujja], but if Allah does not have a Hujja [proof] on the earth [as you claim] then the one who stays back and the one who joins you are both the same. He said to me: O Aba Ja`far I used to sit with my father to share a plate with him so he would feed me the choicest piece of meat and cool for me a hot morsel fearing for my health but he did not fear for me enough to save me from the hell-fire! How could it be that he informed you the truth about the religion [the presence of the Hujja] and did not inform me about it! I said to him: may I be made your ransom – it is only because of his fear of hell-fire for you you that he did not inform you! he feared for you that you would reject it and enter the fire, but he informed me [not caring either way] so if I accept I am saved and he was not bothered that I enter the fire [if I reject]. Then I said to him: may I be made your ransom are you better or the prophets? He said: the prophets, I said: Ya`qub said to Yusuf: “O my son – do not relate your dream to your brothers for they will devise a plot against you” (12:5) why not inform them and expect them not to devise a plot against him but rather he was to keep it a secret from them [so as not to tempt them]? the same way your father kept it a secret from you because he feared for you. He said: by Allah! now that you mention that – your man [the Imam] narrated to me in Madina that I am to be killed and crucified in Kinasa and that he has a book which tells of my killing and crucifixion in it. Later I [al-Ahwal] made the pilgrimage and relayed to Aba Abdillah عليه السلام my conversation with Zayd, so he said to me: you took him from in front and from behind, from the right and from the left, from above his head and from below his legs and did not leave him any room to wiggle out [the argument you made was water tight]. Grading: Shaykh Asif al-Mohseni: معتبر - Muʿjam al-Aḥādīth al-Muʿtabara Source
  14. The issue is you're presenting a doctrine where there has to be an Imam in every time, place, and era; we ask why? You say for the sake of guidance, now this 'guidance' has turned into a mystical relationship. It is beyond clear that the 12th Imam only serves to fill your gap in imamate, because Al-Hassan Al-'Askari ((عليه السلام)) died without a son. Lets say he had a son and that son didn't die, and that son died without a son then you'd be 13ers, etc. Do you get my point? Your designation was Imam to Imam, the critique towards that is after every Imam everyone was lost and didn't know where to go. Again, if you think that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is going to make us believe in someone that nobody has seen, communicated with, been able to reach and comes with this condition of political quietism (again I wonder who that benefits and who coincidentally supported it) then you've went against everything the Prophet ever came with and that is to bring justice, clarity, and clear guidance. What kind of justice has your political quietism established in the past 1187 years, what kind of clarity are you pointing towards when you can't even provide a Hadith that designates an occult Imam, or twelve particular imams at that. You all need to wake up and seriously start reassessing your positions, do you really think if a 1000+ occultation was destined to occur the Prophet wouldn't even hint at it. I find it mindboggling how some have come to use the past occultations that occurred to somehow prove this belief was circulating, I mean talk about desperation really. The twelfth imam is here to rule right? And we will all sit for maybe another thousand or so years paying up that khums while we could instead actively make a difference, you don't need to wait for a savior we have all what we need and we can make a difference.
  15. He wasn't designated by the Prophet, and he wasn't a member of the cloak. Therefore, he is part of the general designation, as per Hadith Thaqalayn and Quran 35:32.
  16. This is an appeal to authority which is a logical fallacy He can be a Zaydi Imam (Theoretically) but it goes against his 'Aqeedah. You wanted to take that route, I am glad you see it as clearly futile and we should focus on tradition that are binding on every sect. I refuse to believe you read my response and sent that
  17. 1. They unjustly went ahead of Imam 'Ali, and their caliphate was illegitimate. However, the Imams did not curse or insult them so we do not do that, we raise their case to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and He is the best of judges. 2. The Mahdi is from the sons of Fatema - either from the lineage of Imam Hassan, or Imam Hussein - he will come in the end times, his name will be Muhammad b. 'Abdullah. 3. Has varying understandings, I still need to give it its do right in terms of research in order to provide an informed and apt position.
  18. He wasn't designated by the Prophet, and he wasn't a member of the cloak. Therefore, he is part of the general designation.
  19. Okay, so a mystical explanation that exists textually, as it cannot be demonstrated as a logical necessity, nor can it be shown to serve in practical matters of creed. Another mystical explanation that can equally be given by the dozens of sects that believe their Imams are occult as well. You're not making any argument, you're simply playing with mystical interpretations to an illogically existing belief that you have and then you add superstition so if someone questions such incoherence you blame them for not being purified. The grave mistake you commit with this belief in occultation is you attribute injustice to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) by saying one ought to believe in a hidden Imam who was never seen, who the Shi'i cannot communicate with, and all that leads to him is the dogma placed from scholars who came later and formulated this grand deception. May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) guide you in thinking better of Him, Exalted is He above what you attribute to Him of injustices.
  20. You’re not sharing anything different, clearly the guidance that the twelver school takes is from previous Prophets/Imams as he mentioned. However, my point is the 12th imam himself does not guide, it isn’t a difficult point to grasp. In which we ask what even is the point of having a 12th imam? You do realize that Waqifis can make the same exact arguments you’re making for the occultation of Musa Al-Kadhim عليه السلام, and so could the other dozens of Shia sects with their occult Imams.
  21. This 12 Caliph Hadith did not exist at the time of the Prophet, nor did it exist at the time of any of the 11 Imams (peace be upon them), I believe such a claim is quite extraordinary to make. Even if we accept that the Prophet said it one cannot use it as a means to prove matters of Usool Al-Deen, as it is a solitary report, and solitary reports can only be used for Far'i matters. Moreover, the Hadith was narrated by an Ummayad - Jabbir b. Samurah - which means its unreliable according to your rijaali standards, its other two variants mention Abu Bakr as the first of those 12, so what one is doing is simply erasing everything and taking the number 12. Even if we accept that the Prophet said this, one would be contradicted by clear history, and logic as there were 50+ Shi'a sects that stopped before reaching 12 imams. Now, if the claim is this Hadith was widespread among Sunnis and Shi'as why couldn't any Shi'i use this Hadith to argue against the waqifiyah for example, where we see Al-Kishi, Al-Tusi, and later on Al-Majlisi mentioning that the great jurists of the Imamiyah became Waqifiyah (see previously attached images for some examples) i.e believed that Imamate stopped at Musa Al-Kadhim ((عليه السلام)) - that he was the promised Mahdi that will come after his occultation, same was said for 10+ personalities before him - and that if they found anything convincing they'd move from their position. I ask my dear brother, why couldn't anyone simply say, well we don't have a Hadith that designates the 12 imams by name, but what we do have is a Hadith from the Prophet which says his Caliphs are 12. Therefore, your position is wrong because you only believe in 7. Interestingly that never happened, Al-Nubakhti in his firaq Al-Shia who lived at the time of Al-Hassan Al-'Askari ((عليه السلام)) never mentioned this Hadith either, he also goes on to say that after the death of the 11th Imam 14 sects emerged after him! Interestingly when the 'Aqeedah of occultation entered the circle of the imamiyah we finally find the Hadith being used post-occultation by Nu'mani in his Kitab Al-Ghaybah. Yes, but the issue is we both narrate from Imam Sadiq, for example those who bring us those narrations differ. We take our Hadith from the family of Imam Sadiq, or from companions who lived near him/them. An example is this Hadith of Imam Sadiq from the Zaydi corpus: E.g this authentic tradition عَليكَ يَاعمّ. فقَال عبدالله: وَعليكَ السَّلامُ يَابن أخِي، مَا هَذا الذي يَبلُغُني عَنكَ أنَّكَ إمِامٌ مُفترَضُ الطّاعَة ، مَن لَم يَعرِف ذَلِك مَاتَ مِيتَةً جَاهِليّة؟! فَقال جَعفر: والله الذي لا إلَه إلاَّ هُو، وحقّ صَاحِب هَذا القَبر، مَا قُلتُ فِي نَفسِي هَذا قَطّ، وإنّه لَيُكذَبُ عَليَّ. فَقال عَبدالله: أنتَ الصَّادِقُ والبَارّ، وهُم الكَاذِبونَ الفُجَّار. ثمّ مَضى جَعفر، فقال عبدالله: والله لَو أرَدتُ مِنهُ الطّلاقَ لَحلَفَ لِي به)) [المحيط بالإمامة ] Narrated from Al-Hafidh 'Ali b. Al-Hussein Al-Zaydi, with his chain from Abi Khalid 'Amru b. Khalid, he said: Ja'far b. Muhammad entered the Masjid and 'Abdullah b. Al-Hassan [b. Al-Hassan b. 'Ali b. Abi Talib] was in a the corner of the grave of the messenger of Allah - (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) -he (Imam Sadiq) came until he reached 'Abdullah and gave him his salutations, saying: Peace be upon you O' Uncle, 'Abdullah said: And peace be upon you O' Nephew, what is this that has reached me regarding you? It has been said that you are an Imam whose obedience is obligatory, he who does not know you dies the death of ignorance?! Ja'far said: By Allah who there is no God, but Him. By the person who lies in this grave, I have never said such about myself, people are attributing lies to me. 'Abdullah said: You are Al-Sadiq (the Truthful), the righteous and they are the liars, the treacherous. [Al-Muheet Bil'imamah] As you know there is a narration in Maqatil Al-Talibiyeen, and in Al-Irshad which show Imam Sadiq ((عليه السلام)) supporting Imam 'Abdullah b. Hassan b. Hassan b. 'Ali Within the narration of Maqatil Al-Talibiyeen it appears that ‘Abdullah b. Al-Hassan b. Al-Hassan is proclaiming that his son Muhammad Al-Nafs Al-Zakiyyah is the Mahdi and that he tells Imam Sadiq that he is being envious of him. However, it is important to note that (a) some of the Rijaal of that chain are Imammiyah, and (b) the Hadith in Al-Irshad has Imam Sadiq saying some people presume that Muhammad b. ‘Abdullah is the Mahdi, note that he didn’t say his father. Furthermore, as I was translating the book by Al-Kadhim Al-Zaydi, I found this narration that completely opposed that narrative (Imam ‘Abdullah claiming that his son is the Imam). Here is the narration: Narrated from Abu Al-’Abbas Al-Hassani from his chain to a man from the companions of ‘Abdullah Al-Mahdh, he said: We came to him - ‘Abdullah Al-Mahdh - and he was being carried by Abu Ja’far (in the palanquin), we said to him: O’ Son of the Messenger of Allah, your son Muhammad is the Mahdi, he said: Muhammad will rise from here, and he pointed to Al-Medina, his nose will be like that of the charging bull until he is killed. Afterwards, Ibrahim (b. ‘Abdullah) while rise from here, his nose will be like that of the charging bull until he is killed. However, when you hear that the promised one has risen from Khurasan, he shall be the one you inquire of. I wanted to mention this because as I was making the point that Imam Sadiq ((عليه السلام)) was giving his support to the revolt of Imam Muhammad and addressing Sheikh Al-‘itrah as his Sheikh, there seems to be this addition in the Hadith of Maqatil Al-Talibiyeen and by virtue of seeing that the Rijaal are imammiyah, and the narration that we have which is Imam ‘Abdullah completely negating the fact that his son Muhammad is the Mahdi, it is clear that such a narrative does not exist and therefore Imam ‘Abdullah never told Imam Sadiq that he is envious of his son. Another statement uttered by Imam ‘Abdullah is his support of the Zaydiyyah in terms of their manhaj, he goes on to state: The marker between us and the Muslims is ‘Ali b. Abī Tālib, and the marker between us and the Shi’ah is Zayd b. ‘Ali - I suspect this is the reason for his Jarh. Now I ask if we agree that we should follow these great personality then I think their support for the Zaydis is clear to the point that even the sons of Imam Sadiq were Zaydis and likewise Hussein b. Zayd b. 'Ali who was raised in the lap of Imam Sadiq and took knowledge from him was also a Zaydi. Reflect over this brother, your most reliable companions were lost after the death of Imam Sadiq: Translation: And what is mind boggling, the likes of Zurarah did not know who the vicegerent of Imam Sadiq was after his death, and he remained confused, so what then do you think of Hisham b. Salim and his likes. Source: Masha't Bihar Al-Anwar V.1 pg. 412, by Sheikh Asif Muhsini As you can see the closest and most reliable companions (who attributed all these sayings to the imams) did not know where to go after Imam Sadiq, so brother what designation are you talking about? If you study your corpus you cannot help but admit this, the issue is we as twelvers were brainwashed by the thinking Shi'ism is just believing in the imamate of Imam 'Ali, they say Sunnis don't want to talk about Karbala, but I say you don't want to talk about what happened after Karbala! And I conclude with this so we can completely take that misconception of designation out of the picture Insha'Allah In his book Kitab Ma'rfat Al-Hadith (The book of knowing Hadith) the Rijaali scholar Sheikh Muhammad Baqir Al-Bahbahudi says: The Hadiths which are known as those which designate the Imams from the Hadith of the tablet (he's referring to the Hadith of Jabir b. 'Abdullah Al-Ansari when he was given a tablet by Sayyida Fatema with the names of the twelve imams) are all fabrications during the time of the occultation, for if these Hadiths had existed with the Imammi Shi'as they wouldn't have had an issue knowing who the imams were, and they wouldn't have differed so exceedingly. So, Insha'Allah my point is clear, when I ask you for a designation for the 9 Imams from the progeny of Imam Hussein it is more so a rhetorical question for you to reflect on. Moreover, for the first 300 years not a single member of the Ahl al-Bayt was a Imammi/twelver they were all Zaydis, except for the 12 Imams who you claim to be on that creed, but in reality were on the creed of the Zaidiyyah as well.
  22. Brother @sargardan thank you for sharing the twlever perspective regarding the Mahdi عليه السلام, as you may know these Hadith exist only in your corpus so it’s kind of pointless to share these points. It’s like a Trinitarian quoting Paul to me when we’re discussing Jesus, Insha’Allah that makes sense!
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