Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi

According to this content, there is dis-agreement among the scholors. If I assert that Mursal hadith quoted by sheikh sadooq is considered reliable according to Shias then I guess it is okay and I can use such hadith in Shia-Sunni debate!?

Not sure. And comming of Angel Jibreal was just a formality. In above Hadiths qudsi if you look at its sanad: Its like: Musa bin jafar (عليه السلام) from his father jaffar bin Muhammad (عليه السلام) from his father Muhammad bin Ali (عليه السلام) from his father Ali bin Hussein (عليه السلام) from his father Hussein bin Ali (عليه السلام) from his father Ali bin Abi Talib (عليه السلام) from Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) from jibreal from mikeal from israfeal from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى): Therefore Rasool (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) reported from Jibreal then he must have told him: Plus this is just a formality. In case of Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) & Imams.

Here are scans. Though it was just an example.

Hadith (whether Hadith e Qudsi or not) is transmitted has hadith not quranic verse. And on hadith, we have different sources and Sunnis have different. So some of their Hadiths might be authentic and some falsely attributed or fabricated. Example: Amali Sheikh Sadooq Majlis 39 and on its end, sheikh sadooq narrates hadith e qudsi which isnt found in Sunni books(else they could have died with heart attack).

Hadith e Qudsi is the word of Allah but what should be in Qur'an and what shouldn't be there: this decision is to be made by Allah Almighty. Its just like if Namaz was important, why didn't Allah mention 2 rakats of fajar in Qur'an? We are commanded to Obey Allah, Messenger (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and ulil amr (عليه السلام)

Assalam o Aliakum Tohfa Ya Ali (عليه السلام) Madad. I would like to know, what is Shia view of a Mursal hadith and do we accept a mursal hadith? Is there a dispute over its acceptence? If yes them name any prominent scholors who accept or reject mursal hadiths. Also what is view of Non-Taqleedi Shias on Mursal hadith?

Yea brother this verse, and another verse supports our stance. If yousha (عليه السلام) was descendent of Yaqoob (عليه السلام) then according to surah anam verse, he could be choosed as Allah says that among their fathers, and brothers and descendents, we choosed them. I was just stuck with one ayah without reading the other. Thanks for your reply I got one more ayah in our favour!

Really I mean I am not supposed to repeat everything again and again. And by the was, that topic wasnt a debate, it was a discussion. Since I am not a debater

I believe there was no need of locking my thread down. Could've shown wilayat e Ali from Qur'an though.

Oh yes because you got stuck in your own argument there. Plus you people demand where in Qur'an Allah told us to bear witness to wilayat e Ali. Can I ask where in Qur'an Allah orders us (not talks about the people who bear witness) straight forwardly orders us to bear witness to Nabuwat e Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)!? Plus when we say ashadu anna Muhammad ur Rasool Ullah, we testify to wilayat e Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) as per Qur'an 5:55 . I can’t believe some ridiculous people here quoted me on that thread "you don’t witness to wilayat e Muhammad s.aw" I just want to ask do you have any sense? Or you people are just wasting time? I quoted hadith from Amali sheikh Sadooq in which Allah says no act is acceptable without iqrar of wilayat e Ali and Nabuwat e Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). Then you guys created mess about meanings of iqrar that it means acknowledge not to testify or to bear witness. Then I present ayah in which Allah asked people that do you acknowledge? They said yes. Then Allah says "then testify (bear witness)" Its they way of Allah that what you acknowledge, you have to testify. And so on ...... Un ending...... Big quest..... And yeah you people never told me what is meaning of tashahud? What do we say in tashahud and why?

That was just a contradiction of hadith quoted by @Aquib RizviRizvi Plus according to Qur'an, Ale Musa or Ale Haroon was choosen so if Yousha bin Noon was successor of Musa (عليه السلام) then he should be from sons of either Musa (عليه السلام) or Haroon (عليه السلام) Plus what about his father and grand father? They have to be pious ones alright?

I think this Mr..Bean guy needs to read the verse pointing out caliphate of Harun (عليه السلام) again. Then tell me wasn't Harun (عليه السلام) caliph after Hazrat Musa (عليه السلام)? Just because he didn't out live Musa, no way this can be used to reject his relation with Musa (عليه السلام) And similar is relation of Ali (عليه السلام) with Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) . This relation isn't bounded by life or death. Also Mola Ali lived after Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) therefore he was hujjat upon the people and whoever diverted from hujjat, we cannot believe in them. Musa (عليه السلام) prayed and got Haron (عليه السلام) appointed by Allah . This relation only existed between Ali (عليه السلام) and Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and whoever denies hujjat e Khuda ,he should think and care for himself

Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) during his life time, for a small area donot leave anyone at his place and you want to prove that he left world without leaving anyone at his place or left someone other than Ali (عليه السلام)? Harun (عليه السلام) was potential caliph but he passed away earlier which has nothing to do with Haruns (عليه السلام) caliphate. While Ali A S lived after Rasool (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) therefore this hadith alone is sufficient evidence that Rasool (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) made(by order of Allah) his caliph Ali (عليه السلام)

Who told you only Kutab e Arba is reliable? Show a single hadith from qutab e arba that go against my tafseer and here is mine: Usool e Kafi v2 Imam says our wilayat is Allah's wilayat. No amal is acceptable and you arent going to jannah without testimony of Wilayat e Elahi. No deed is acceptable without testification of wilayat e elahi so if your tashahud isnt valid without testification of wilayat e Allah then as ler this hadith tashahud is invalid without wilayat e Masoomeen as well and Qur'an 70:33 says same that who stand by shahadaat (at least three testimonies) they are going to jannah. And in tashahud we give testimonies and according to Qur'an and Al Kafi hadith, at least 3 testimonies are acceptable. Come to tashahud section: Imam ordered taqiyyah and my question is on which thing taqqiyah was practiced? Lailaha illalah or Muhammad ur Rasool ullah? Taqqiyah was practiced on wilayat e Ali and it was hidden therefore we have got such hadiths as well but now our lives are safe and with support of Qur'an 5:55 wilayat e Ali is obligatory As per Qur'an surah ale imran ayat verse 81 If you do iqrar of something, then Allah demands testimony of it and if you don’t, then you are munafiq and munafiqs have been cursed by Allah.

Thanks for quoting this ayah. As per ayah, if you affirm and accept, then you must bear witness. I can’t believe how well you people have pre pared against wilayat but you will always fall without it. Surah Aal-e-Imran, Verse 81: وَإِذْ أَخَذَ اللَّهُ مِيثَاقَ النَّبِيِّينَ لَمَا آتَيْتُكُم مِّن كِتَابٍ وَحِكْمَةٍ ثُمَّ جَاءَكُمْ رَسُولٌ مُّصَدِّقٌ لِّمَا مَعَكُمْ لَتُؤْمِنُنَّ بِهِ وَلَتَنصُرُنَّهُ قَالَ أَأَقْرَرْتُمْ وَأَخَذْتُمْ عَلَىٰ ذَٰلِكُمْ إِصْرِي قَالُوا أَقْرَرْنَا قَالَ فَاشْهَدُوا وَأَنَا مَعَكُم مِّنَ الشَّاهِدِينَ And when Allah made a covenant through the Prophets: Certainly what I have given you of Book and wisdom-- then an apostle comes to you verifying that which is with you, you must believe in him, and you must aid him. He said: Do you affirm and accept My compact in this (matter)? They said: We do affirm. He said: Then bear witness, and I (too) am of the bearers of witness with you. if you are truthful, and you affirm and do iqrar of wilayat e Ali which is obligatory in every act(amal) then as per this ayah you must bear witness to it. Actually this ayah has made distinction between you munafiqs who say we do iqrar then as per this ayah you have to testify to it as well Its obligatory for us to do iqrar e wilayat e Ali with Nabuwat e Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) else as per hadith, Allah says he will not accept any deed without it and as per verse I quoted, if you do iqrar then its a command from Allah to bear witness else you are munafiqs and munafiqs has been cursed by Allah.

Allah says no amaal will be accepted without iqrar e Wilayat and Nabuwat. You said it has nothing to do with tashahud while knowing all amaal include namaz and namaz include tashahud! Accoridng to this hadith, iqrar e wilayat e Ali is obligatory with iqrar e Nabuwat e Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) in every amal else none of amaal will be accepted. Please explain how wilayat is acknowledged with Nabuwat of Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) in every amal!? And surely you don’t do it in tashahud therefore We have Allah's fatwa on your deeds. Here are a few meanings of iqrar from Arabic: endorsement إقرار, موافقة, تحويل, توقيع السند, الملحق شرط مضاف إلى عقد التأمين ratification تصديق, إقرار, موافقة sanction جزاء, موافقة, عقاب, إقرار, تصديق, مرسوم authorization تفويض, ترخيص, إجازة, رخصة, توكيل, إقرار stabilization استقرار, ترسيخ, توطيد, إقرار, تمكين avowal اعتراف, إقرار, مجاهرة indorsement تحويل, إقرار, موافقة, توقيع السند, الملحق شرط Eteraaf - "Meanings includ endorsement إقرار, موافقة, تحويل, توقيع السند, الملحق شرط مضاف إلى عقد التأمين ratification تصديق, إقرار, موافقة sanction جزاء, موافقة, عقاب, إقرار, تصديق, مرسوم authorization تفويض, ترخيص, إجازة, رخصة, توكيل, إقرار stabilization استقرار, ترسيخ, توطيد, إقرار, تمكين avowal اعتراف, إقرار, مجاهرة indorsement تحويل, إقرار, موافقة, توقيع السند, الملحق شرط مضاف إلى عقد التأمين e Meanings include eteraaf as well. Wilayats iqrar in every amal with nabuwat e Muhammadi has clear and cut meanings which is presence to testimony of wilayat with nabuwat e Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) in each and every amal(AcT). Not as a belief! But in all your amaal!

Islam is deen e Fitrat(nature) and In Qur'an the nature upon which Aplah has created people. We read in tafaseer: 4) فِطْرَتَ اللَّهِ الَّتِي فَطَرَ النَّاسَ عَلَيْهَا [٣٠:٣٠] "The nature made by Allah in which he has made men." [30:30] Imam Muhammad Baqir (عليه السلام) says regarding the above verse of the Holy Qur'an: هی لا اله الاالله محمد رسول الله صلی الله علیه و الهِ و سلم علی امیر المومنین ولی الله التی ههنا التوحید “That (Fitrat) is ‘There is no God but Allah, Muhammad is the Prophet of Allah, Ali Amir-al-Momineen is the Wali of Allah’. [Ref: Tafseer-e-Burhaan Vol:3 Pg:262 & TafseerTafseer-e-Furat Its very natural to aay Ali un waliullah in Namaz therefore, you people are the ones who deviated from nature.

I am almost dead. Usool e Kafi V2 Imam said Our Wilayat is Allah's wilayat. Now I would like to ask you if tashahud is valid without testimony of Allah's wilayat. Plus as per above hadith u cannot seperate wilayat e Ali from Wilayat e Allah if you do, you are zalim!

Wilayat e Ali is wajib and was just hidden because of taqqiyah you quote Imams hadith without considering that that era was era of taqiyyah. Else wilayat Ali is wajib. Here hadith from Amali sheikh sadooq both Arabic and Urdu. Allah says we will not accept any act or worship without testification of Risalat e Muhammadi (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and wilayat e Ali (عليه السلام) Amali sheikh Sadooq:

Will discuss adhan in seperate topic soon.

Rasool (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) used to recite Ali un wali ullah in Namaz. Another hadith is from Imam Jaffer e Sadiq as well.

Indeed what is better than testifying to kalima e tayyba as told by Imam Jaffer e Sadiq. Which is complete and sign of momin. So why not!?

Hadith you quoted has a dua after shahadatein and this not necessarily means that whatever thats said after shahadatien is dua. And definitely someone with little sense can realize that sentence: "I testify that Ali is Ameer ul momineen" is not at all a dua. Its a testimony. Just like previous testimonies. The red quotes have words Ashadu which begins the testimony. Refer to Fiqh e Kamil By Muhammad Taqi Majlisi, and that tashahud mentioned has direct words after two testimonies.

You said recital of shahadatein is compulsory, I agree but whatever is recited besides it is dua where did that sick logic came from? If Imam allows to take names in namaz then it is part of namaz and is better. Testification to kalima e tayyaba as per hadith Of Imam Jaffer e Sadiq is more complete than shahadatein and being a Shia Ali un waliullah is our sign. Only if taqiyyah was practiced, wilayat e Ali was obligatory! If you hide it or don't recite it becuase Imams mostly hid it in namaz and unitl or unless you get order when our Imam e Zamana (عليه السلام) when he (عليه السلام) is zahir, then I am with you. But saying namaz is batil or wilayat shouldnt be recited in tashahud, I will fight you for this. Strange to see Shias like you allow testimony jannah is haq and jahanum is haq but with wilayat e Ali, you call namaz batil?

Increase, hadith of al kafi you mentioned explains that tashahud and qunut isnt fixed now what is being increased? Its 2nd time you people have quoted from Fiqh e Raza and Tashahud of 4th Rakat in fiqh e raza as per Imams order has Ali un wali ullah therefore Imam himself has recited Ali un wali ullah in tashahud how you dare call it biddah? Tashahud isnt even fixed and Imam said recite what seems best and kalima tayyaba the pure semtence as per Imam sadiqs hadith has 3 sentences including Ali un wali ullah. More over Rasool (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) himself used to take mola Alis name in namaz: Al Burhan fi tafsir il Qur'an Even Rasool (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) uses to bear witness to wilayat e Ali in namaz and you are calling it a biddah? I sont know how long it will take to make u people understand that tashahud is not fixed and least zikr is shahadatein and any more than that is worship.