Islami313

Salams.. and thanks for the replies.@Salsabeel it doesnt matter who we think is an enemy.. did Imam Ali (as) see them as an enemy and disassociate from them?? And i understand the theory.. but im a simpleton. Imam Ali is the Imam.. whether he is a caliph or not! After Nabi Muhammad Saw, he is the Imam of men and jinn.. birds and trees.. etc. This is not a position that can be taken or 'usurped'. What Allah Swt gives.. none can withold! This is my thinking.. and excuse the bad example; Imam Ali owned a seat.. some people wanted it, so instead of fighting for it he said take it! He pledged his allegiance to the first.. helped out the second caliph in his decision making on many occasions.. and sent his two sons Imam Hasan and Imam Husain to protect the third. Where is the grudge, disassociation, cursing or disrespect? What a spin! Lol. Isnt our whole claim about following Imam Ali? Lastly.. 4:28 man is created weak. And.. 12:53 "Nor do I absolve my own self (of blame): the (human) soul is certainly prone to evil, unless my Lord do bestow His Mercy: but surely my Lord is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful." The Sahaba were human beings.. they were not purified or ma'sum.

Salams.. and Subhanallah! A christian does not believe in Allah Swt, Nabi Muhammad Saw, Islam or anything of the ahlulbayt!! Imam shafii had to clarify that he wasnt a rafidhi!!! Forget these two quotes.. there are many others soo famous it doesnt need a reference! Personally.. from reading some of his quotes, it feels like he believed in the wilayah of ahlul bayt and the imamah of Imam Ali (as). Maybe there was a bit of taqiyyah involved.. lol but sure.. i get your point so lets move on. Which point did i run from brother?? Sufis have just accepted the reality.. it is not a perfect world. Imam Ali was the 4th caliph in terms of political succession. In him was combined the worldly khilafah and the spiritual khilafah. And after him his son Imam Hasan. After him the worldly khilafah was held by kings! and spiritual succession continued to Imam Husain, Imam Sajjad and imam Baqir and so on.. Disassociate from the enemies of ahlulbayt.. agreed 100%. But its not agreed that these were the enemies of ahlulbayt! Sometimes i feel the hadith about the ahlulbayt.. 'do not go ahead of them' applies here. An easy question.. did Imam Ali (as) disassociate from them, disrespect them.. and treat them as his enemies??

Salams everyone.. im trying to learn whether it is all [nonsense] or it is actually weak.. even it is according to their standards. al kafi is more than half weak by our own standards.. i prefer the sunnis confidence lol jokes. Sunnis learn their flaws from shias and vice versa. The wahhabis.. they love shias loll.. and thats the point! yes they might lie, definitely exaggerate, but they'll definitely point out whatever flaws shias might have. And i hear a lot that many of our works didnt survive.. actually one of the criticisms.

Salams everyone and thanks for the replies. @786:) thank you.. as a background info i come from a sunni sayyid family, the hate was non existent, rather the sunnis loved and respected us as the descendants of the Prophet (Saw). I think we are trying to push wahhabism as sunnism, which is definitely convenient. And taqiyyah.. i get it.. Ammar b Yasir.. well understood. But your right, thats what confuses me.. for even the little things! And i thought there were tens of different opinions in those days.. And @Follower of Ahlulbayt.. loll enough with the Christian comparisons bro its a dead point. Save face and stop..jokes. Here are two quotes i found off a quick search.. just some of his lies lol. O those who ask me about my love of Ahlul-Bayt (as); should I confess openly that I love them or should I deny that? Never shall I deny their love because their love and affinity is blended in my flesh and blood. Their love is a means of my guidance and growth. O family of Muhammad, O those whom I turn to, O those whose love is my reliance, you are my intercessors on the Day of Judgment. Why should I be afraid when I trust you and have confidence in you? He who loves you will reside eternally in Paradise and your enemies will be for ever in Hell fire” When I saw different religions and jurisprudential schools steering towards ignorance and misguidance, I embarked in the name of God on the ark of salvation i.e. the family of the Seal of Prophets and got hold of the divine covenant which is the very love of them. Indeed, God has commanded us to hold fast to the divine covenant. As to the second point about the sufis.. most of the chains go through Imam Ali (as). They believe in the legitimacy of the three caliphs but the spiritual heir of the Prophet (Saw) is Imam Ali, and after him Imam Hasan, then Imam Husain and so on.. And just to get it straight.. to believe in the wilayah of ahlulbayt you must disrespect the 3 caliphs? Thats what i find sad a bit.. we are soo stuck on this political leadership and it overshadows everything else. But lets not get off the main topic just yet.. i did ask many questions in that post earlier. Clear some of my ignorance and maybe others could also contribute. Shukron.

@Follower of Ahlulbayt Salams.. and thanks for the quick reply bro, but you didnt touch on any of my points and questions. And honestly i think its a bit extreme to not acknowledge someone like imam shafii.. and compare him to christian writers and fans of Imam Ali (as).

Salams.. and thank you for the replies brothers. @Follower of Ahlulbayt Why should i not consider them to be truthful? When we say 'Sunnis'.. who do we intend by this? There have been many pious, knowledgeable ulama' in both sects, and sunnis and sunnism is an absolute major part of Islam.. so lets be fair. Sunnis oppose Ahlul bayt.. loves those who fought Ahlulbayt..?? How?? When there are soo many Sayyid Sunni scholars and saints renowned throughout time. Its illogical. And most sufis believe in the wilayah of ahlul bayt (as). Anyways.. this is my thinking.. take for example Imam Shafii. He was famous for his love and inclination for Imam Ali and the ahlulbayt.. and he openly made statements to that effect. Why should i not trust him? He was a well known, brilliant scholar, pious etc.. and his positions are clear, wrote his books. Why should i not take my fiqh through this chain say.. It might seem like a new question but its not.. this is kind of what i wanted to get to. Lolll your guessing adnan rashid aye. And @Shi3i_jadeed.. all that logic gave me a head spin lol. I understand that banu umayya and banu abbas were all about maintaining power.. and the Imams (as) would be under the biggest scrutiny since they were most deserving of this post. But i have also read that Imam Abu Hanifa supported and gave fatwas for people to join Imam Zayd's uprising, that Imam Malik was beaten by the authorities, Imam Shafi'i was almost charged for supporting an alawite uprising i think.. etc.. the point is that they the sunni ulama' were not necessarily in bed with the State, also had their differences with the State and supported the ahlulbayt. As far as i know.. the Imams (as) after Imam Husain and karbala, stayed out of politics and whilst occasionally disturbed, they were left alone to their worships and teaching. Other members of the ahlulbayt led rebellions and uprisings and were crushed and killed. They lived in the same times, under the same cruel rulers.. there are reports they studied under the Imams (as). The Imams (as) taught many famous scholars, Imam Sadiq's (as) classes were full. So heres my dillema.. The sunni imams have their fiqh well established, their positions clear, recognised, they wrote books. Imam Shafii has two different positions and theyre both known and documented. Why is our madhab, the fiqh of the Imams (as) surrounded in soo much controversy, why so mysterious, why so much taqiyya? Why do i feel like i have to be jason bourne just to get the fiqh position of the Imam (as)? We make it out as if they were teaching scientology lol. Werent there many scholars and all had different opinions.. why isnt it recognised in the same sense as the sunni schools? Am i going in circles.. Sorry for the long reply.

No.. Shias do not get along better with Christians than Sunnis. Sunni & Shia are brothers in one family.. like all brothers yes they fight, argue, criticise each other etc. They get along just fine most of the time. The differences have been magnified and perpetuated by mostly the wahhabis and some extremist shias. With strangers.. you always show your best side, smile at their jokes even when not funny, hold back criticisms, make them feel comfortable etc.. this is natural. I feel this is the position of Christians.

Salams @Aquib Rizvi thank you for the detailed reply brother. Soo.. around 60% of the hadiths are weak in al-kafi and this includes the unknowns. Do we have any idea how our other 3 books are in terms of strength and reliability? I see that each scholar also has their own standards and criteria in grading and authenticating.. is Allamah Majlisi known to be strict or more lenient in his grading? And maybe this is relevant to your comment @Shi3i_jadeed.. but i read from a wahhabi website that our hadith science is extremely basic in comparison and flawed.. developed as a reaction and nowhere near as thorough. Under the microscope.. are our books just as unreliable as theirs or worse?

@Sirius_Bright @Follower of Ahlulbayt @Islami313 Salams brother.. thanks for the reply. I understand they used taqiyyah.. but i wouldve thought it was to do more with Imamah or leadership.. khilafa etc.. issues that challenge the caliph of the day. It seems it also extends to fiqh issues as well..?? correct me if im wrong brother. I had read somewhere that Sheikh Tusi said something like theres not one narration that doesnt contradict another.. and that was the primary reason for Tahdhib. Which brings me to the next point.. im glad you mentioned that hadith about opposing the Amma to solve conflicting narrations. I really have my doubts about this hadith being true let alone the fact that we use it as a rule. Im a little baffled by this.. i wouldve thought the opposite! Does it not make more sense that we take what agrees with the Amma..? Shouldnt the fact that the other major party corroborates the report give it much more strength and credibility? kind of like independent researchers arriving at the same conclusion..? Why are they definitely in the wrong that we must oppose them? Are we assuming that they were all corrupt.. that they were not truth- seeking scholars, that they intentionally oppose truth and Ahlul Bayt's AS positions? I find this hard to believe. I wish we had a fiqh book from Imam Ja'far or one of the Imams. This would clear everything up. Ive heard a few times the Sunni ulama say our madhab is disconnected.. that it doesnt have a connecting chain to the Imams and the Prophet SAW.

Salams and thank you for the reply @Follower of Ahlulbayt. I guess it is a simple issue of taqiyyah to save a life if there are praises of him from Imam Ja'far and Imam Musa AS. Can i ask you a more general question in regards to this..? Did the Imams AS really use taqiyyah this much?? I've read that post where it says the Imam intentionally divides his 'flock'.. answers to his own close companions differently.. to ensure there is no uniformity.. so nothing links back to the Imams etc.. on the other hand i hear Imam Ja'far taught openly to over 4000 students! What was he teaching to these masses? the shia way or...?

Salams and thank you for the reply @Follower of Ahlulbayt.. sorry but im just trying to make sense of this and cover all the loopholes. Is it not possible that Zurarah was praiseworthy but then later on became blameworthy?? Or that the narrrations praising him were fabricated to prop up his status since he narrated many hadith? Im sure you've read the salafi arguments.. some even say he rarely ever met Imam Ja'far AS. How do i reconcile this? Shouldnt it be well known amongst the ahlul sunnah of the time and even today that Zurarah is indeed a close companion of the Imams?

Salams and shukron for the replies.. @Aquib Rizvi i think the first part of your answer might be very relevant. Even if 90% of narrators are Unknown it doesn't mean that those unknown narrators were most active in narrating the hadeeth, you can see the most repeated chains in al-kafi are reliable. Can you please explain this for me?? Do we have an idea how many narrations are from unknown narrators? So, the most repeated chains.. they are all known, trustworthy reliable narrators? I wish i could do more with that info.. maybe your explanation would clear it up better. And @Follower of Ahlulbayt.. thank you for that ill look into it. Ill be honest i do have my doubts.

Salams.. lol name change aye! Lets not rush things. I require answers. Certainty.. i need to be certain in what i believe. I do not doubt the Imams AS.. but the claims i mentioned and the Sayyid Kamal video has put a massive doubt on the narrators. Is it not important to be certain that the narrations are indeed coming from the Imams? Please refer back to my original post as there is still no answers to it.

Salam.. lol it was fun till i heard these claims and have found no shia tackling the issue and destroying the claim! I even thought of contacting adnan myself through fb to ask him for evidence for his claim.. but before that i thought i would jump on here and see if members here can clarify. Im guessing Sayyid Kamal maybe doesnt believe in 'totally' relying on the sanad method. Without the chain of narrators and the study of these men.. we could take gandhi, mother theresa or buddha quotes and put the Imams name on it.. as im sure many great sayings do not conflict with the Qur'an.

Salams and thank you for the replies.. but i dont think its answered anything soo far. I dont care at all about adnan.. but it is a massive claim to say 90% of our narrators are unknown..! I do not doubt that this might be exaggerated, but this will be a huge problem to my certainty if at all true. And of course we have the names of narrators, i think he meant unknown in terms of identity.. background, character, etc.. and im not sure what you mean about Sayyid Kamal not recognising books of rijal.