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In the Name of God بسم الله

shouzan

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Posts posted by shouzan


  1. 14 hours ago, starlight said:

    So in that case she would be pronouncing her own divorce? Divorcing herself ? 

    She would be pronouncing divorce on behalf of her husband for herself. she would have the right to do so because she was given power or attorney by her husband in their nikah contract. by a husband agreeing to this condition in the contract he than gives the right to Talaq when she choses to, on her husbands  behalf, therefore she requires NO reason or explanation for the divorce. It would be just as if Her husband himself had done it himself.

    @Rayhana80


  2. 21 hours ago, Rayhana80 said:

    I partially agree to what you said.. If a husband wants to take second wife or more, there should be some rules or checklist he has to follow: 

    1. Don’t just assume that your wife wouldn’t have a problem. 

    2. Stay upfront and open about it rather than being secretive and hiding it from your wife.

    3. Consider your wife a human being and not a commodity, give them some respect and right to make decision whether she wants to stay or not. 

    4. Do not share one wife’s personal and private story with another wife just to make her happy. That’s another reason they want more wives so they can vent it out. How absurd!

    and so on, unfortunately men think it’s their right so they do not need wife’s permision and they can be just and fair with them. If being just and fair wouldn’t have been a big deal then why in Quran it says that you can’t do justice and Allah knows the best how mean and selfish men are. 

    I want to say this just to make it very simple for everyone- 

    IF someone makes effort to hide something they KNOW it is wrong. He hid the second wife for years because he knew he was doing the incorrect thing and mistreating you by doing so. Men can be rather selfish and even though he might not want you he won't divorce you simple because he doesn't want anyone else to have you. Go ASAP to sheik or scholar and explain the situation and ask him for a divorce.  that woman is a snake tbh and they both deserve to make each other miserable.


  3.  

    16 minutes ago, rkazmi33 said:

    If she cannot get divorce without his permission, then what is the point of having such clause? This definitely means that if you are shia woman, you are stuck in an abusive marriage for life unless a scholar, who has no idea what happens in your marriage behind closed doors, decides that your husband is abusive. If your husband is a successful narcissist liar, then you can forget about your freedom. It's better to not get married at all. I was told by a scholar 2 years ago that my divorce was final. It's not my problem if he made a mistake. I won't get married again, but I will never tell anyone that my divorce is not valid. 

    Two leading Shia Scholars stated a woman can be given power of attorney by her husband to Talaq (Divorce) in the Nikah contract it is Valid and legal no mater if you live in a western country or islamic country. Nikah contracts are legally binding!


  4. Quote
       On 2018-02-13 at 1:15 PM,  shouzan said: 

    To Both of you, My Nikah contract made it impossible for me to divorce unless my husband asked. Because this was a condition he put into the contract with my father and i was not aware.

    The husband does not need to put such a condition in the contract because he already has that right by default, unless he does something against the shari'a that gives the wife the right to divorce him without his consent.

     

       On 2018-02-13 at 1:15 PM,  shouzan said: 

    You can include a woman can file for divorce into a nikah contract .

    No, you can't. Please provide a fatwa from a marja' to prove your claim. Here is a fatwa from Imam Khamenei:

      Quote

    Q: Can the wife stipulate in the marriage contract that she has the power to divorce the husband if he breaks one of the conditions? If yes, than if the husband broke a condition does he not have the power to revoke the divorce or contract anymore?

    A: Divorce right can not be delegated to the wife [i.e. so that she divorces herself later on her behalf]. However, the husband can give his wife the power of attorney to divorce herself on his behalf if he does not abide by one of the terms mentioned within the marriage contract.

     

    Please find in BOLD you clearly state a woman can't include a husband giving her permission to divorce. furthermore you state "The husband can give his wife power of attorney to divorce herself on his behalf IF HE DOESNT NOT ABIDE by one of the terms mentioned within the marriage contract." taking that into account i can only conclude that you believe a woman can ONLY divorce her husband (If power of attorney was given via Nikah contact) if he breaks a condition in the marriage contract. This is not what the two scholars were saying. If a man gives his wife power to Talaq she can do so for whatever reason she deems as reason. Just as a man can preform Talaq for whatever reason he deems fit. ie. this condition if placed into a marriage contract than gives the power of Talaq to the wife and she holds that power to divorce as she choses.

     

     


  5. 1 minute ago, Hassan- said:

    The women can act on his behalf ONLY WITH HIS PERMISSION. Read the fatwa you posted, please! Read here what you said: "The man can make the woman his representative (wakeel) to perform Talaq". The women can divorce him only if HE allows her to act upon his behalf.

    Please refer to my earlier post:

    3 minutes ago, shouzan said:

    If you bothered to read the original post you will find my clear questions to the scholars. and therefore see that i was asking  "can husband give a woman the right to divorce in the nikah contract" i am not sure where your confession came from but i am clearly speaking in regards to if it was a condition in the nikah contract than yes a woman has the right to divorce without permission of her husband.

     


  6. 2 minutes ago, Hassan- said:

    What I'm saying is from the words of Imam Khamenei, not my own opinion. You are not understanding the concept of Wikalah here. You need the permission of your husband to be his representative to divorce him. As you can see in the fatwa you put, it says "The man can" meaning the only way for the women to divorce him is only if the man wants to, in which he would make you his representative. If he doesn't want you to be his representative, then you can't divorce him.

    I don't know how it's so hard to understand this.

    If you bothered to read the original post you will find my clear questions to the scholars. and therefore see that i was asking  "can husband give a woman the right to divorce in the nikah contract" i am not sure where your confession came from but i am clearly speaking in regards to if it was a condition in the nikah contract than yes a woman has the right to divorce without permission of her husband.


  7. On 2/18/2018 at 1:56 PM, Rayhana80 said:

    Can you please let me know the website or email address where we can post questions directly to the mujtahid? I asked them questions but never got any reply. 

    You can WhatsApp Grand ayatollah makarem shirazis fatwa at +98 937 300 6220

    and twitter to message Sayyid Ali Hosseini Khamenei @khamenei_ir He also has an  email  so you can email your questions directly contact@leader.ir

    I hope that helps.


  8. 2 minutes ago, Hassan- said:

    Did you even read the fatwa properly lol? "The man can make the woman his representative (wakeel) to perform Talaq." 

    It's the same fatwa I posted in the previous pages, read the second sentence of the answer:

     

    Being the wakeel means the woman cannot have the right of divorce directly, she can only have the husband give her the position of wikalah for the divorce. You would still need permission from your husband to divorce him.

     

    Also, no one on this thread said a women can't stipulate in the contract that her husband can't marry a second wife, a women can do that if she wills, and only if the husband agrees to it.

    I messaged them about two different subjects in the forum, therefore i posted the same to both. Both said a woman can have the rights to divorce, not the right to ask for a divorce with husbands permission. Both were very clear in their answer. if put into the Nikah contract a woman CAN DIVORCE without a husbands permission because her husband basically signed power or attorney over to his wife to preform Talaq. So if you want to argue about what scholars have said thats fine but you have nothing to support your statement there than your clearly bias opinion and lack of religious understanding.


  9. On 2/18/2018 at 1:45 PM, IbnSina said:

    I dont really see how this had anything to do with what you said previously about the ayahs of the holy Quran.

    I already knew what you said as well.

    A women can make it a condition upon entering nikah with her future husband that if he gets another wife then she has the right to divorce him. This does not mean she can make it HARAM for him to get a second wife because Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى made it halal.

    Either way, i do not think its a good idea to get a second wife if the first wife is opposed to it, nothing good is going to come out of that but as I said, are the reasons she is against it islamically motivated or not, are the reasons the man wants a second wife islamically or not.

    lol sorry i messaged them regarding two different subjects in the forum and i posted it and linked it to whomever was active in the post.  and I appreciate you respecting a first wives opinion when it comes to taking a second wife. Some men believe it is their right and their wives feelings have nothing do with it. 


  10. On 2018-02-16 at 5:18 AM, RevertSister said:

    JazakAllah for your message. I agree, that’s what drives me crazy the most! I don’t see why it’s a problem when me and my husband go out ( without anyone else tagging along! ) ..the fact I do what I do within this household but when MIL feels annoyed with me she backbites and tells family members I’m lazy and don’t do anything and tells my SIL to tell my husband I need to do more! That actually broke me a little as I’ve tried so hard to fit in and make so much effort to get on with everyone yet she makes me feel trapped here! Dislike so much. A family meeting will happen soon to discuss his mums behaviour, I know she will play the victim or start crying or swearing.. end of the day she’s in the wrong and I really have seen her true colours. Since all of this has happened I can’t see her the way I used to, a part of me dislikes her which makes me feel sad. In shaa Allah it all gets resolved, hoping to move out if not then my parents house is the option I’m thinking of taking. Xx

    Consider crimes all over the world, it is NOT the persons intentions behind the action it is how action effects individuals. So even if your MIL has the "best intentions" with her backbiting it actually has affected you mentally and made you uncomfortable as a person. I suggest you discuss your feelings about everything with your husband first before this meeting. Than he can be your backup and support during this family meeting. It is hard for people to accept the fault and responsibility for their own actions.  and yes she will make drama and play victim, but DONT let this erase your feelings regarding how her actions and words have made you feel. He chose you as HIS wife. Your MIL has nothing to do with your marriage. Be Strong!


  11. Okay @starlight , @shiaman14 , @Hassan- , @rkazmi33 , and @Rayhana80 i took this subject directly to two scholars. You may know them, Sayyid Ali Hosseini Khamenei and Grand Ayatollah Makarem Shirazis Fatwa. It took them a long time to reply however i believe this should solve this debate on the current subject. I sent them: 

    "Salam Alaikum, I have a question about Nikah conditions, Can a Nikah Contract have a condition about a husband not taking a second wife? and can one include a woman right to divorce for good reason? Thank you."

     

    Both replied similarly however i will quote the reply from Sayyid Ali Hosseini Khamenei for the purpose  of exact wording:

    "Wa Alaykum Assalaam. 1- It can be a specific condition stipulated in the marriage contract. 2- The man can make the woman his representative (wakeel) to perform Talaq".

    In short yes a woman can have the right to divorce if it was put into the Nikah Contract also a woman can actually include that a husband not have the ability to take a second wife. As the conditions in the nikah contract are binding they are legal. This is supported by two leading shia scholars.

     

    I REST MY CASE!

    *Drops Mic


  12. Okay @IbnSina and @Rayhana80 i took this subject directly to two scholars. You may know them, Sayyid Ali Hosseini Khamenei and Grand Ayatollah Makarem Shirazis Fatwa. It took them a long time to reply however i believe this should solve this debate on the current subject. I sent them: 

    "Salam Alaikum, I have a question about Nikah conditions, Can a Nikah Contract have a condition about a husband not taking a second wife? and can one include a woman right to divorce for good reason? Thank you."

    Both replied similarly however i will quote the reply from Sayyid Ali Hosseini Khamenei for the purpose  of exact wording:

    "Wa Alaykum Assalaam. 1- It can be a specific condition stipulated in the marriage contract. 2- The man can make the woman his representative (wakeel) to perform Talaq".

    In short yes a woman can have the right to divorce if it was put into the Nikah Contract also a woman can actually include that a husband not have the ability to take a second wife. As the conditions in the nikah contract are binding they are legal. This is supported by two leading shia scholars.

    I REST MY CASE!

    *Drops Mic


  13. Im sorry everyone but has any of you males here actually been married? seems you guys don't really understand how complicated females are. We require a lot of attention and the mood swings don't even get me started, especially while pregnant. We are great wonderful and amazing but if you think for a second you can be "just" to two or more wives without being rich you are mistaken. Children cost money and are not free, have you considered the cost of diapers for how fast children grow, constantly needing to buy new clothes and shoes, the newest gadgets and toys. Oh and did i mention the cost of maintaining two homes and cars and each wives personal needs. 

    Like honestly good luck with the headache you men bring upon yourselves with this. let me know how it goes. 


  14. On 2018-02-14 at 9:38 AM, IbnSina said:

    Guess you should not have multiple children either then!

    Also there is a difference between treating two people equally and loving two people equally, dont get it mixed up.

    I feel you but there is no limit or condition to the amount of children i can have in the Quran. However there is a condition in there about taking more than one wife which it is also stated in later surah that it is impossible.  


  15. On 2/14/2018 at 8:31 AM, IbnSina said:

    This is speaking about emotional equality, which is as far as I know impossible to achieve, even for a mother and her kids, she will naturally like one more than the other, even if its 0,000005% more.

    As far as physical equality goes, i.e. time spent, gifts, trips, etc, this can be divided equally and justly.

    But sometimes some women also agree to everything just to get you and once you are theirs they will backtrack and guilt trip you. Funny how the world works.

    Well if it is impossible than that rests my case if you can not treat and love your wives equally than you can't marry multiple!


  16. 4:129 وَلَن تَسْتَطِيعُوا أَن تَعْدِلُوا بَيْنَ النِّسَاءِ وَلَوْ حَرَصْتُمْ ۖ فَلَا تَمِيلُوا كُلَّ الْمَيْلِ فَتَذَرُوهَا كَالْمُعَلَّقَةِ ۚ وَإِن تُصْلِحُوا وَتَتَّقُوا فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ غَفُورًا رَّحِيمًا 
    And you will never be able to be equal between wives, even if you should strive. So do not incline completely and leave another hanging. And if you amend and fear Allah - then indeed, Allah is ever Forgiving and Merciful.


  17. 9 hours ago, Rayhana80 said:

    Impossible! There is no way a man can do justice between two wives nowadays. Back in the days it was a common and accepted practice for men to have multiple wives. Now women don’t like to share. No matter what a husband would do he cannot make wives happy. The only suggestion for men who seek multiple wives is that they should go for temporary marriage not a permanent one. Because once u get into mutaa at least the other party knows it’s a temporary thing, whereas in permanent marriage you make your wife believe that you will be honest and faithful later on you cheat on her and ruin her life. 

    I agree, If you don't plan to love and dedicate yourself to your one and only wife, do Nikah Mutah. 


  18. 9 hours ago, notme said:

    @women stuck with a loser:

    When my ex-husband refused to divorce me, and also refused to live with or provide any financial support for me and our daughter, threatening to tell his community at his mosque how he treated us worked. After I said I will do this, he got divorce on paper and sent it to me that same day. 

    He was a greedy, immature, dishonest man, but he wanted people to think he is good, pious, trustworthy, and sincere. Your just have to know what his sensitivities are and use that to bring peaceful resolution to the situation. 

    Some people might call that blackmail, but as far as I can tell, there really isn't any other option. 

    You Go Girl! honestly i agree, in order to get my divorce i had to prove abuse, because in front of everyone he was without fault. He told our community i suffered mental problems and wasn't in my own mind.  So i got my old phone and put it on record and set it to the side every day. Just recording our day to day interactions. There was so much evidence in those recordings that i was granted my divorce and Sole Custody of our children, and CLEAN mental heath assessment. He in fact can't even come near me or them at this point unless i give my permission and have someone there to supervise. He now loves far far away from us and i have been happily raising my children. I am engaged and will defiantly be very smart about the conditions in my Nikah.

     

     Blackmail is smart! 


  19. 16 hours ago, rkazmi33 said:

    This is not about having a husband as a bank account. It's about both husband and wife fulfilling their responsibilities. In order to prove your love, you must do your share of the work. What kind of person would want his wife to take care of both housework and finances? Taking care of house and kids is a lot of work and unless a woman earns so much money that she can hire someone to do it for her, it's impossible to keep a full time job and raise kids. Also, if a person is capable of abuse, he is also capable of financial abuse. A woman can earn money but her husband can stop her from spending her money according to her wish. There are many women who earn a lot of money, and still they are stuck in abusive relationships. 

    Abuse is wrong but without money how can a woman even consider packing a bag taking her children(if any) and walking out the door. However i do agree with your point. I also agree that if power of divorce is put in the nikah contract a woman does have the right to file as long as its for a proper reason. and YES that means getting a second wife without asking the first wife or ignoring her protect against a second wife. 


  20. 2 hours ago, rkazmi33 said:

    If husband earns money, he wouldn't care about his wife buying gifts from her money. If he doesn't earn money, then wife is really spoiling her husband who will become entitled. Again, some women can earn a lot of money but most of women cannot earn so much money and they shouldn't have to feel that they can only earn freedom and independence if they earn a lot of money. If the husband is not providing financial support, then what is the point of having a husband. I think women can do a better job at raising their kids when they are single mothers. 

    The point of having a husband is not as a bank account, its to have someone to love, grow and spend your life with. And to be honest i like having my own money and my own ability to spend it where and when i chose. What kind of a person doesn't like buying the person they love a birthday or anniversary gift? 

    2 hours ago, Hassan- said:

    The husband does not need to put such a condition in the contract because he already has that right by default, unless he does something against the shari'a that gives the wife the right to divorce him without his consent.

     

    No, you can't. Please provide a fatwa from a marja' to prove your claim. Here is a fatwa from Imam Khamenei:

     

     

    I live in Canada, therefore i can file for divorce if i chose to. Again i speak from my own experience in CANADA.

    1. Though, the wife does not have a right to pronounce Talaq unless such a power is delegated to her by her husband at the time of contracting marriage, all the same she is given a right to seek divorce through intervention of the court on the grounds pleaded by her, or by mutual consent on the terms agreed by the parties.

  21. Just now, rkazmi33 said:

    The example of Khadija is often used by men who want to be dependent upon women and don't want to do anything. A woman should be self-sufficient but it's unfair to expect from women to be able to earn so much money that they can be both father and mother and they have to raise the kids by themselves. If a man becomes a father, it's his responsibility to provide for his children, regardless of whether his wife stays with him or gets a divorce. 

    of course i completely agree i defiantly wasn't asking women support themselves and their children. i am saying that a husband should provide for his family and wife, but the wife can have her own finances separately from her husband. I have savings accounts for each of my children and one for myself this is a smart way to protect yourself as a woman from any kind of financial abuse (and yes it is an actual type of abuse) or control. a Man SHOULD provide for his family! but a woman can provide things for herself too. and its actually great to be able to go out and buy ur husband a nice watch or new iPhone using your own money instead of spending his. 


  22. 2 hours ago, Rayhana80 said:

    I disagree.. I know a girl got divorced from her husband because he used to mistreat her and beat her up.. she left the house and asked for divorce .. he was reluctant so she went to maulanas where they sent him letters and people to come sit with them to resolve the issue, but he never showed up on those meetings.. eventually after couple of meetings and they finally told her it’s over and she is free to marry again. Her husband was being very selfish and unreasonable to her, he didn’t want to divorce her neither he apologized for his behavior to make the situation better. 

     

    2 hours ago, Hassan- said:

    What you just said has nothing to do with what I said. I never said a women isn't allowed to divorce without husband's permission under any circumstances. A women can divorce her husband without his consent (with the permission of a shiekh) only if valid reasons in shari'a are met. What I was talking about is marriage contracts, where a husband violating a marriage contract is not a valid reason to divorce him without his permission.

     

    To Both of you, My Nikah contract made it impossible for me to divorce unless my husband asked. Because this was a condition he put into the contract with my father and i was not aware. However i took him to civil court and was granted a full Divorce.You can include a woman can file for divorce into a nikah contract . If a husband Violates the Nikah contract it does make the contract invalid. For example if Mahr isn't paid the marriage is voided. the OP needs to stop sleeping with her husband and file for divorce based on irreconcilable difference. Be smart ladies with your Nikah contracts and take control over your own life, thats why property should be in wife name for her and the children, a wife should even strive to make her own business or find a nice job and have her own savings and finances because she is her own person not an extension of her husband.  Think of Khadija Bint Khuwaylid she was a very successful business woman before and during her marriage to the Prophet Mohammed.


  23. 2 hours ago, Laayla said:

    Bismehe Ta3ala,

    Assalam Alikum 

    Murders do salat.  Does that make salat bad?

    Rapists do sawm.  Does that make sawm bad?

    Fornicators wear hijab.  Does that make hijab bad?

    Seriously, what is your point?

    One of the aspects of patience, is patience on enforcing your wajibat.  If you must do a wajab and you flatly deny and reject it, this is a higher sin then the one who knows hijab is wajab yet doesn't do it for a variety of reasons.

    But why are you defending the shortcomings with Allah to us? We are human beings and yes we are also sinners, and we repent to Allah and ask His forgiveness.  

    Redirect your issues with Allah swt and make sincere du32 to guide you and help you overcome your obstacles you are currently facing.  Nothing is difficult for Allah, He can easily open so much doors, gates, barriers for you.  Do not take this deen lightly.  Because Allah promises if you don't want this deen, He will easily replace you to find another group of people who do want this deen.  It is happeneing every single day!  While Muslims leave deen al haq, many more are converting to it.  God keep us steadfast on this religion.

    You know full well hijab is wajab now, there is no ignorance on this issue.  If you choose a spouse who doesn't practice hijab, then when Allah grants you a daughter, the responsibility of her not wearing hijab is on the shoulders of her father.  Good luck explaining that one to Allah!

    M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah 

     

     

    the responsibility of a future daughter not wearing hijab comes down to the Daughter, NOT ANYONE ELSE! Allah does not judge us on others actions. There are also plenty of Daughters who's mothers do wear Hijab and yet they do not!  do again it is the woman INDIVIDUAL choice what she wants to wear. Unless you also feel women are not equal to men and therefore shouldn't be given a choice. Do you also feel girls should not be educated past elementary? Women going out to do normal activities without a husbands permission? what are your thoughts on this matter since:

    وَبُيُوتُهُنَّ خَيْرٌ لَهُن

    “…even though their houses are better for them

    Do women not deserve the same equal treatment and responsibilities as men? 

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