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Follower of Ahlulbayt

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About Follower of Ahlulbayt

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    Islam

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  1. Follower of Ahlulbayt

    Musa (as) story and infallibility

    do most scholars differentiate between before prophethood and after? Isn't the famous view that they were Prophets from the time they were born?
  2. Follower of Ahlulbayt

    Musa (as) story and infallibility

    ok so he mistakenly killed someone. That goes against complete infallibility (that Prophets do no major sin, minor sin, or mistakes)
  3. Follower of Ahlulbayt

    Shirk

    Bro, again, it is important that we take out beliefs from clear cut and authentic hadith. I will give you a hadith now, and you tell me if you still believe the Imams know everything: الكافي: عدة من أصحابنا، عن أحمد بن محمد بن عيسى، عن ابن ابي عمير، عن جعفر ابن عثمان، عن سماعة، عن ابي بصير، ووهيب بن حفص، عن ابي بصير، عن أبي عبدالله عليه السلام قال: إن لله علمين: علم مكنون مخزون، لا يعلمه إلا هو، من ذلك يكون البداء وعلم علمه ملائكته ورسله وأنبياءه فنحن نعلمه [5/363] al-Kafi: A number of our companions from Ahmad b. Muhammad b. Isa from Ibn Abi Umayr from Ja’far b. Uthman from Sama’a from Abi Basir (and Wuhayb b. Hafs from Abi Basir) from Abi Abdillah عليه السلام who said: Allah has two kinds of knowledge. A knowledge which is hidden and stored-up. No one knows it but Him. From that does Bada’ happen. And a knowledge which He taught His angels, messengers and prophets. So we too do know it. (Translated by IslamicSalvation) This clear and authentic hadith says ONLY Allah has knowledge of certain things and NO ONE else does. Also, read the works of classical scholars like Shaykh al-Mufid, where he clearly states that the position of the Imamiyya is that no the Prophets and Imams don't know absolutely everything. Rejecting the Imams being all-hearing is not a Wahabi concept. The concept of the dead not being able to hear is the Wahabi concept you are referring to. Bring me one notable classical Shia scholar that has said the Imams are all-hearing.
  4. Follower of Ahlulbayt

    Shirk

    The brother clearly says that he does not believe that if people say the Prophet or Imams have attributes which only Allah has, it is Shirk.
  5. Follower of Ahlulbayt

    Shirk

    Bro if only Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى has the attribute, but you say other people have the attribute which only Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى has, of course it is shirk. So yes, saying the aimmah (as) are all-hearing, all-powerful, all-knowing, all-seeing, is shirk. Its like me saying the Imams are eternal, is that shirk? Of course, because only Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى is eternal and the Imams are created slaves of Allah. It is important for us to have evidence for all our beliefs, and not to just believe things because we grew up with such beliefs.
  6. Follower of Ahlulbayt

    Musa (as) story and infallibility

    Ok so what I have understood so far is that Musa (as) intentionally killed the Egyptian. However, the reason he did istighfar is because as a result of killing the Egyptian, his life was at risk. When he says ظَلَمۡتُ نَفۡسِ he means he has put himself to harm, as that is one of the meanings. As a result of putting himself to harm, he puts Islam into harm. That is why he did istighfar. He (as) did not do a sin or mistake, but the way things happened and turned out, the situation resulted in Islam and his own life being put into jeopardy. Is this a correct understanding or is there other better explanations?
  7. Follower of Ahlulbayt

    Musa (as) story and infallibility

    Bro... I am simply asking for a correct explanation of this verse. No need to pose challenges instead of directly answering my queries.
  8. Follower of Ahlulbayt

    Musa (as) story and infallibility

    I knew of the points made in this hadith. I addressed why I believe they are wrong in my first post. In addition, I think the hadith causes more problems. The hadith explains ظَلَمۡتُ نَفۡسِ as "I placed myself in the wrong place by entering this city". ok, but that is still a mistake....which goes counter to complete infallibility.
  9. Follower of Ahlulbayt

    Musa (as) story and infallibility

    Yes brother I was aware of this hadith but it is not authentic and contains a Nasibi.
  10. Follower of Ahlulbayt

    Musa (as) story and infallibility

    Salam everyone, The story of Musa (as) and him killing an Egyptian is mentioned in Surah al-Qasas, verses 15-16: "And he entered the city at a time of inattention by its people and found therein two men fighting: one from his faction and one from among his enemy. And the one from his faction called for help to him against the one from his enemy, so Moses struck him and [unintentionally] killed him. [Moses] said, "This is from the work of Satan. Indeed, he is a manifest, misleading enemy. He said, "My Lord, indeed I have wronged myself, so forgive me," and He forgave him. Indeed, He is the Forgiving, the Merciful." I would like to see how us Shias can justify our general view of infallibility (no major or minor sins and no mistakes) from this verse. So first, Musa (as) killed somebody. Murder is a major sin. Some may point out that this was unintentional and he did not mean to kill the Egyptian. Although, then we would have to at least admit it was a mistake and that dismisses complete infallibility. Some other people may say that Musa (as) deliberately killed the Egyptian and the Egyptian was an oppressor, so killing him is not a problem. This doesn't make sense though as Musa (as) says that he wronged himself and he does istighfar. Another issue is Musa (as) doing istighfar if he didn't commit a sin. Why did he say faghfirli فَاغۡفِرۡ لِىۡ (forgive me)? Some might argue that the correct translation for فَاغۡفِرۡ لِىۡ is actually "cover me". But that doesn't make sense since the end of the verse reads "He is the Forgiving, the Merciful", which is context for فَاغۡفِرۡ لِىۡ meaning forgive me. Some may say that he is doing istighfar for tark al-Awla but I read somewhere that some scholars do not believe in tark al-Awla. So how do we justify this (besides tark al-Awla)? Also, Musa (as)'s statement "This is from the work of Satan" is also problematic. As some can explain the mistake of the Prophet (saw) praying 4 rak'at instead of 2 being from Allah. However, Musa (as) clearly here says this was from Satan. Some may argue that when Musa (as) said "This is from the work of Satan", he was referring to the quarrel between the Egyptian and the slave before, but I find that hard to believe.
  11. Follower of Ahlulbayt

    "Mistakes" Of Prophets and Imams- Scholarly views

    Are you calling me Ibn Taymiyya? Are you also calling Shaykh al-Saduq and all the other Shi'a scholars that have accepted the Prophet (saw) mistakenly prayed 2 rak'at instead of 4 Ibn Taymiyya? Stay in your lane buddy
  12. Follower of Ahlulbayt

    "Mistakes" Of Prophets and Imams- Scholarly views

    Would most scholars agree that the Prophets and Imams can make mistakes when it comes to the last division, things that have absolutely nothing to do with the application of a law like tying a shoe lace?
  13. Follower of Ahlulbayt

    "Mistakes" Of Prophets and Imams- Scholarly views

    Divinely appointed leader sent by Allah If a leader is errorless in delivering his message, I don't see why it is a problem if they make mistakes in matters not pertaining to delivering the message. I have never heard anyone say that there is a "benchmark" to determine what a mistake is. A mistake is simply an unintentional act. Praying 2 rak'at instead of 4 is a mistake. Accidentally dropping objects are mistakes. I never intended to do taqleed on this issue, just wanted to see the mainstream scholarly view.
  14. Follower of Ahlulbayt

    "Mistakes" Of Prophets and Imams- Scholarly views

    Qur'an and Sunnah.
  15. Salam everyone, I just wanted to ask for references to scholars who have held the view that the Prophets and Imams can make mistakes in matters not pertaining to the religion.
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