Huseyin_Cetin_Turkish_Shia

Salam all. May Allah have mercy on us because we dont exact know what really did happen to the minds and intentions of some ashab of Mukhtar (r.a). I dont know how true it is but from one source i read that ibrahim al ashtar (May Allah forgive him) stayed in Mosul after hearing the martyrdom of Mukhtar (r.a). Aparently i also heard that when Mosab ibn zubair was againts abdulmalek ibn marwan, ibrahim al ashtar chose to be in Mosabs side againts abdulmalek. Therefore aparently i dont know nor neither can judge his intentions (only Allah swt knows) but its a sad truth that he has sided up with mosab in order to fight againts abdulmalek ibn marwan and he died in that war. I guess mosab gave him the guarantee of being the governor of Mosul. And only Allah knows.

Salaam all. As from the Turkish clan maybe i can give some info's about Mavlana a.s and the other saints. First of all everyone has to acknowledge that these saints were true Shia's and the followers of Ahlulbayt. That's why they have had their Naseeb's (i.e Saintness). Allah swt has given them the Marqaba (Rank) because of their true path. But as for many years the sunni's in Turkey have severally tried to even change these and show these saints as Sunni's. Biggest proof is a saint called Haji Bayrami veli's Turba (ziyarat) had a big sign in the entrance, and on that entrance has some art work with arabic writings. The main part say's "Ali" was erased by the sunni ulema's to hide his faith (regarding to be a true shia). All the saint's which i will name here are all true Shia's and the followers of the Ahlulbayt (a.s). Haji Bayrami Veli Haji Bektashi Veli (Son of Seyyed Ibrahim) Mevlana Jallaladdin Rumi Pir Sultan Abdal ( Real name Haydar) Yunus Emre (Famous saint which people still interpets his poem's in many language) was the student of Haji bektashi Veli Khoja Ahmad Yasawi (The teacher of Haji Bektash Veli) Taptuk Emre ( Teacher of Yunus Emre through Haji Bektash Veli) Abdal Musa Sari Ismail (The student of Haji Bektash Veli Karaca Ahmed Shah Ismail Hatai Hallac Mansur Asik Nesimi Veysel Karani Cabbar and many more. And even Abdul Kadir Jeylani (jeelani) is considered Shia but then again counted as sunni by sunni's. Remember brothers all these saints are tried to be shown as sunni because of their ranks. We used to call this (Asimilation) which are explained as After the Dersim Massacre in 1938 Many Turkish-Kurdish-Zaza Shia's were killed, expelled and tortured. Most which were expelled were asimilated (either kids were given to sunni khoja's families and imams and were changed. Thats why they try to say these saints were sunnis. But all these saints which i have named have never mentioned omar, othman or abu bakr. Infact most of them were all reciting the name of Ahlulbayt and karbala. Pir Sultan abdal was executed for his love towards 12 Imam's. Mevlana used to write poems about Imam Hussein (a.s). Inshallah it has been a bit of explanation to you brothers. If you have questions regarding these personalities please do ask. Wa salam.

Salaamo Aleykoom. Dear brothers and sisters. If any brothers who cannot make it to jolous (Matam) Monday 5th December can if prefer watch the matam in Turkey live. It will give live broadcast on several Turkish state channels which you can watch by finding in google. Or if anyone has Turksat Installed on their satallites can find live channel at these frequencies. 11154 - V - BW 3 - SR 2222- FEC: 5/6. The matam in Turkey is Organized by Turkish Shia (Jafariya) comunity (Zeynebiye.com) live on 5th December 2011 at 09:30 till 13:00 (Turkish time). Please visit www.zeynebiye.com for more info and supporting our brothers in Turkey. Alternatively you can watch live through pc on http://www.zeynebiye.com/yayin/ Wa Salam.

The wiki source is ok but obviously when changed to Turkish language you get more out of it. With the youtube chanell u showed me is mainly videos about tours. As if u have noticed Alevi people have changed their prayer place from Mosque to Cemevi (Cem house). If you wonder what cem is, its similar to dhikr which nakshi's do, or mevlevi's (whirling dervishes) do. As i stated its a bit towards shia/sufi thought or idiology. But the music they play or songs they sing are all about ahlulbayt or 12 imam's (a.s) , Allah or Mohammad (pbuh) So you could use wiki as a good source.

Salam, Alevi is counted shia aswell even though there are difference's on following the deen. For a start Alevi's have been suffering so many tortures and prosecutions in Turkey since the Sunni Ottoman reign. Most have been joining the Iran's Shah Ismail (Note: Not the shah that has been overthrown by the revolution) the known twelver in order to fight againts ottoman padshah Yavuz sultan selim. Since that Yavuz sultan selim has accused Alevi's of sinner's. Rumours started taking place such as Alevi's blow candles on a special night and start having intercourse with one another including mahrams. Such as rumours told about shia's as well (Mutah) with mahram's etc. Around 40.000 have been killed since yavuz sultans reign and since history including massacres at Dersim, Kahraman Maras, Gazi, Corum and Sivas many Alevi's have been killed with women, children, elders included. There for most Alevi has left praying (Salah) by defending them selves saying " We get accused in mosque for following ahlulbayt, they call us names and rumours which has been going on since century, we pray in our own houses we still get accused of adultry with our own mothers and sisters. There for the islam the ottomans have presented in here is not our islam". etc. They have mainly divided to Alevi/Sufi path which has been started with Haci Bektash Veli. Alevism is a classified as as sect of Shi‘a Islam as Alevis accept Twelver Shi‘a beliefs about Ali and the Twelve Imams, and Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini decreed Alevis to be part of the Shi'a fold in the 1970s They fast during Muharram aswell as shia's. They mourn the martydrom of Imam Hussein and his companions. They read laments concerning the martyrdom of Imam Huseyn at Karbala. When your question arises to me saying am i not one of them. I have become to know about islam through my parents, Ive been brought up the way to Love the true Islam. The true Islam which Loves Ahlulbayt (a.s) and hate Muawiyah and Yazeed (L.A). My parents are Alevi. But ive been investigating and searching more myself and thought the true Alevism is Shia itself. I understand the grief and pains which they suffered from Sunni's in Turkey. My parents have suffered pain in Kahraman Maras Massacre in 1978 and i know how they feel about it back home. But like i said at the end of the day everyone individually has a right to follow which ever sounds the truth to them. I chose Shia sect and they were more than happy. They said atleast we how somethings in common rather than Sunni's who call Hazrat to people like Muawiya etc... I hope it has made a little explenation brother. Wa salam.

http://www.zeynebiye.com/77799_Zeynebiye-de-1-Muharrem-%28Foto%29.html I didnt know where to put it but just wanted to add it so we can see MUHARRAM IN TURKEY

I guess the sin was that Musa (a.s) commited murder (by mistake or knowingly) when he pushed a guy which fell and died. I may be wrong but as far as i am sure it had to do with that. Some may oppose to it.

Asalamo aleykoom dear brothers and sisters. I have been gathering alot of information about Mokhtar al-thagafi (a.s) since these couple of weeks. Ive been gathering Sunni & Shia sites regarding brother's and sister's thoughts about him. But as i was trying to get to know about him more i have found my self in another track. I have read an article which a Hanafi scholar in Turkey was talking about Imam Hanafi. He was saying how corrupt the ummayad's were and how back biter the abbasid's were. He was praising the Shia's because of their love towards the Ahlulbayt (a.s). He was also saying how most of Sunni's attitudes towards Imam Hanafi was and what kind of tortures and accusations he has been through. On one of his lectures he has described how Sunni's accept Bukhari as sahih and that he cannot lie etc, but on hadees bukhari he has read a part which Imam Bukhari himself has accused Imam Hanafi. Now that Insh'Allah i will try my best to write down each section from his sources which he has given to proove his point. He has said people has even said Imam Abu Hanifa was a Kafir. Because he did not accept hadeese's from well known sahabi's (Strong for Sunni's) unless they were based on Quranic and Prothet Mohammad's (pbuh) actual traditions (i.e Sahih Sunnah and sayings of Prophet Mohammad (pbuh). The reason i wrote same fate was that Mokhtar (a.s) was in a same situation were people accused him of being a kafir aswell (Auzibillah). I as a strong Shia has always admired and respected a person like Mokhtar Al-Thagafi (a.s) not just because he has avanged the karbala victim's but especially for his love toward's Ali ibn Abu Talib (a.s) and the whole Ahlulbayt (a.s). Now lets get back to the main sources the scholar has used. He said Bukhari has accused him on; Buharî; Kitabu’z-Zuafa, ; İbn Abdi’l Berr; al-İntika’, part. Bukhari has said that how Imam Hanafi was untrusted person etc. Now a question arises here. If majority of Sunni's claim to be Hanafi sect. And yet also claim to count Bukhari as untouchable Sahih hadees narator then who are they actually following. I will insh'Allah post many more sources he has used to prove his claim but although i thought the most important one was the statement he has used about Bukhari. Wa salam. I have just found some sources infact in a Sunni site. This is what they have quoted: 1) Imam Bukhari has stated: Imam Abu Hanifah (Rahmatullah alayh) was a Murji’i. [Al Tareekh Al Kabir under the life history of Nauman Bin Thabit] Imam Bukhari also writes: The time when Sufian Thuri (great scholar of Islam) heard news about the death of Imam Abu Hanifah Rahmatullah alayh he said ‘Praise be to Allah that such a man had died as he was gradually destroying Islam. There could not be a worse person born in Islam’. [Tareek Sagheer biography of Imam Abu Hanifah Rahmatullah alayh] Imam Bukhari also writes that : On two occasions Imam Abu Hanifah Rahmatullah alayh was ordered to repent from making blasphemous statements. [Khitab Al Daufa Walmat Rukin by Imam Bukhari, Al Intiqa By Imam Abdul 'barr] Imam Bukhari informs us that he had taken these statements from his tutor Na’eem bin Hamad. [Tareekh Al Saghir by Imam Bukhari]

Also add that the Turkish Ottoman Leader Yavuz Sultan Selim aka Selim I ordered around 40 thousand Shia's of (Shah Ismael's iran and shias in Turkeys) death. Also add that in 1978 in turkey a city called Kahraman Maras where i was born saw the worstest massacre of our times. The sunni's started giving out fatwa's saying " Our religion's is vanishing because of these shia's, these red headed's". (KIZILBASH). And they massacred not just men but womens, childrens and elders. Also they rip opened pregnant womens tummies and killed unborn childs. And they have called it "IN THE NAME OF GOD" (Audzhibillah) And these massacre's continued in Turkey in years 1972's till latest massacre 1996. Basically the list just keep's growing and we the Nabi's (pbuh) and Ahlulbayts (a.s) followers have always been suffering because of our love to them and real Islam. May Allah Guide us.

Salam sister.. First of all i wanted to state that i have heard from my elder's, they used to say " People who DO or LET IT BE DONE (Black magic) is a sinner and it's not permisible even for a good sake in our Deen". They used to explaine the reasons as follows. Allah (swt) created human beens and gave them their life. Allah has stated his/hers birth and death dates. But then again has given every human ability to think with mind, and act with heart. Basically we human's are responsible with our thoughts (intentions) and acts (amal's.) By doing a black magic it sounds like (the ones who do it) are measuring their power's againts Allah (swt)'s powers. (auzubillah). The ones who goes and seeks for black magic is "EXPECTING SOMETHING FROM" the black magic do'ers or jinns. (We only have to seek refuge from Allah (swt). When it comes to the white magic. i.e Good magic. Still we are seeking for someone else's help and the person who does white/black magic is just being a big headed trying to act behalf of Allah (swt) (auzubillah). There for if you are a good Muslim (Insh'Allah) and have a strong iman sister. Don't bother your mind with peoples who are dealing with magic and call them self a Muslim. You focus on your own life. (Me personally will suggest that you dont even need friends who are not accepting you as a friend for who you are, Not for what you are). Pray to Allah (swt) for your guidiance, proctection for evil's and evil minded people's bestows. And May Allah (swt) guide all of us Muslim's Ameen. Note: Every thing is done with Allah's (swt) will. Without Allah's will no human nor magic can harm you sister.

Salam all. I wanted to add my spoon in the soup aswell lol !! As you may know that in Turkey (My home country) its common to love the co-called Allah's friends. The 79 % of Turkey is Hanafi, the rest is shafee, few maliki's and around 20 million of the population is Shia (Caferi) twelther's and 15 % Alevi twelthers. When it comes to Wahabi's telling stuff's like "SHIAS WORSHIP GRAVES" I just laugh and walk away from the discussion because nearly that 79 % hanafi's that i have counted goes torbas (Ziyarats) of the co-called friends of Allah and pray and make wishe's ect.. If you like i can name you many co-called friends of Allah. Now when the issue comes to Abdul Khadeer Jeylani, I remembered some people used to call him the leader of the Qadiri Jamaat (A Sufi/Naqshibandi group) which was a Shia. As if you have done some re-search you will notice his ziyarat is in Baghdat and is been visited by many Sunni's and Shia's. When the issue gets bigger to name was he shia or sunni then we have to understand that the Sufi's name there selfs either from Imam Ali's decendant or abu bakr's decendant. So we notice here that even Sufism is divided into 2 sect. Me personally dont really think he was a shia but then again dont believe that he called shia's a rafidi either. Some wahabi's are trying to propagand these kind of issues againts shia'sm. If he was to be called Shia, the wahabis would of said " Shia's worship to grave has been prooved" as the ziyarats of these peoples are always full. If he was to named sunni then wahabi's would of said " They call our respected SCHOLAR a shia when he blatenly wrote a fatwa stating that Shiah's are equal to jews. So either way i say believe in which ever you believe but have these thoughts some where in your mind. NO WAY OUT. May Allah bless you brothers and sister's with Rahmat.

Salam All brothers and sisters. Since I have l looked through most topics i see some user's stating that " True Islam is itself without a division, There is nothing such as Sunni nor Shia" And accuse some users to call them selves Shia. I dont want to give names which i am sure you brothers and sisters mostly know who they are. But there is something stuck in my mind. Yet a Sunni claims " We shouldn't call ourselfs Sunni nor Shia, It is againts islam to do so" but yet again we (Shia's) get the accuse. But i have done many research's and discovered that the sunni Imam's (Imam Malik ibn Anas, Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal & Imam Shafi) have clearly stated the ummah not to believe in Rafidi Shia's (Astafurullah) and not to take their hadith's in account as they lie and etc etc.... But now i have a question to sunnis When your Imam's blatenly say "DONT BELIEVE IN SHIA'S " arent they doing a division ? And how comes they say " Dont take the shia's hadiths in accounts (i.e trust) as they make everything up them selfs" but yet again train their selfs under Our beloved imam Jafar Al-Sadiq (a.s) ? Either way either the sunni's are making fabrications about their imams or their imams are the cause of hatre towards us Shias. Some Sunni's brighten us up with your answer's please.... Are we to be blamed for division, or is it you sunni's or is it your imam's ? Wa salam.

Salam'o Aleykoom brother's & sister's. I as a Human will firstly think as a Human. If someone is suffering from hunger, thirst, or does not have a shelter to live in, I will first react as a Human. Its my duty to give help as much as i can do (afford) to. I dont look at peoples religion, ethnic, colour or belief. when i am helping the poor. Have you forgotten what Mohammad (pbuh) said "Smile can also mean a charity sometimes".... So then again some brothers have stated its better to help your own people first. Which i dont disagree but then again different people has different point of view. I would personally help anyone regardless who needs a help and if i am capabable to do so. If you even help a cat thats about to drown, Allah c.c May write sewab (good deed) about u. Only Allah subahanallah wa teala knows whats in peoples minds, intentions and if they are worthy of sewab or gunah.. Wa salam.

I didn't want to spend my day's cursing her but since u opened up her subject i just want to state something neatly and leave the rest to you brother's sisters. 1. She thought war against Ameer al Mumin Imam Ali (R.A) and cause the first Muslim civil war. So i ask is there any harm cursing her ? Yet they say that who ever disobeys the Ameer of time is a disbeliever than what were her and muawiya (L.A) 2. She was the one who didn't allow Imam Hasan (A.S)'s body to be buried next to his grandfather (prophet Mohammad (pbuh). So is there a harm in cursing her ? How can someone stop another person last will yet plus that person who has willed was her husbands beloved grandchild. The rest is up to you. Probably there are even more of what she did but i just wanted to clarify the most important one's.

Just stay as you are and don't convert to anything. Your very confused your self. You still don't get it do you.. why are you keep repeating your self. Read as much as page of Quran you can, you wont find anything that says be in this group or be in that group. What are you trying to get convinced on. Shia just means a follower and thats it. you could be shia of anything (all depends on what u wana be the follower of) why have the sunnis made the name Shia look so wrong look so bad i wonder... they even confuse their own shias (followers)..

Also mention Tariqaat's (path) lead from sunni school of thoughts. I will mention some with my best of knowledge Rabbani's (the followers of their co-imam Rabbani) Naqshibendi (haqqani path) Aczmandi Qadiri (believed to be divided within the sunni and the shia sect. the shia sect of Qadiri jamat is named as Qadiri husseini arm (path) and they respect the Ahlulbayt and 12 imams. the other sect is believed to be descent from abu bakr. All mentioned up are co-groups lying under the Sufi's category which are then again divided into 2 category, The Mawlawis (wirling dervish's) are origionally followers of Jallaladdin al rumi mevlana (sunni's say he is a sunni saint but ive heard he is originally the follower of Ahlulbayt (a.s) And i do want to say i have seen the way Ahmadi's pray and its the same style as sunni's so no way near Shia's. (alhamdulillah)

Hārūn al-Rashīd (Arabic: هارون الرشيد‎; also spelled Harun ar-Rashid; English: Aaron the Upright, Aaron the Just, or Aaron the Rightly Guided; March 17, 763 – March 24, 809) was the fifth and most famous Abbasid Caliph. He was born in Rayy, near Tehran, Iran, and lived in Baghdad, Iraq and most of his reign was in Ar Raqqah at the middle Euphrates. He ruled from 786 to 809, and his time was marked by scientific, cultural and religious prosperity. Art and music also flourished significantly during his reign. He established the library Bayt al-Hikma ("House of Wisdom").[citation needed] Since Harun was intellectually, politically and militarily resourceful, his life and the court over which he held sway have been the subject of many fictional tales: some are factual but most are believed to be fictitious. An example of what is known to be factual is the story of the Clock that was among various presents that Harun had delightfully sent to Charlemagne. The presents were carried by the returning Frankish mission that came to offer Harun friendship in 799. Charlemagne and his retinue deemed the clock to be a conjuration for the sounds it emanates and the tricks it displays every time an hour ticks. Among what is known to be fictional is the famous The Book of One Thousand and One Nights containing many stories that are fantasized by Harun's magnificent court, and even Harun al-Rashid himself. The family of Barmakids which played a deciding role in establishing the Abbasid Caliphate declined gradually during his rule. Also check his life: Hārūn was born in the Tehran province of Iran. He was the son of al-Mahdi, the third Abbasid caliph (ruled 775–785), and al-Khayzuran, a former slave girl from Yemen and a woman of strong personality who greatly influenced affairs of state in the reigns of her husband and sons. Hārūn was strongly influenced by the will of his mother in the governance of the empire until her death in 789. His vizier (chief minister) Yahya the Barmakid, his sons, and other Barmakids generally controlled the administration. The Barmakids were a Persian family that had become very powerful under al-Mahdi. Yahya had aided Hārūn in obtaining the caliphate, and he and his sons were in high favor until 798, when the caliph threw them in prison and confiscated their land. Muhammad ibn Jarir al-Tabari dates this in 803 and lists various accounts for the cause: Yahya's entering the Caliph's presence without permission, Yahya's opposition to Muhammad ibn al Layth who later gained Harun's favour, Jafar's release of Yahya ibn Abdallah ibn Hasan whom Harun had imprisoned, the ostentatious wealth of the Barmakids and the alleged romantic relationship between Yahya's son and Harun's sister Abasa. The latter allegation is specified in the following tale; Hārūn loved to have his own sister Abbasa and Jafar with him at times of recreation. Since Muslim etiquette forbade their common presence, Hārūn had Jafar marry Abbassa on the understanding that the marriage was purely nominal. Nonetheless, the two consummated the marriage. Some versions have it that she entered Jafar's bedroom in the darkness, masquerading as one of his slave girls. A child given secret birth was sent by her to Mecca but a maid, quarrelling with her mistress, made known the scandal. Hārūn, while on a pilgrimage in Mecca, heard the story and ascertained that the tale was probably true. On his return shortly after, he had Jafar executed, whose body was despatched to Baghdad, and there, divided in two, impaled on either side of the bridge. It stayed there for three years, when Harun, happening to pass through Baghdad from the East, gave command for the remains to be taken down and burned. On the death of Jafar, his father and brother were both cast into prison. This romantic story is highly doubted by Ibn Khaldun and most modern scholars.[1] The main reason for this story to be wrong is that Harun ur Rashid was a very pious person, and considered mixed gathering as un-islamic and un-ethical. Therefore, the letting her own sister to meet Jaffar is illogical and out of question. The fall of the Barmakids is far more likely due to the fact that Barmakids were behaving in a manner that Harun found disrespectful (such as entering his court unannounced) and were making decisions in matters of state without consulting him first. Hārūn became caliph when he was in his early twenties. On the day of accession, his son al-Ma'mun was born, and al-Amin some little time later: the latter was the son of Zubaida, a granddaughter of al-Mansur (founder of the city of Baghdad); so he took precedence over the former, whose mother was a Persian slave-girl. He began his reign by appointing very able ministers, who carried on the work of the government so well that they greatly improved the condition of the people. Julius Köckert's painting of Harun ar-Rashid receiving the delegation of Charlemagne. It was under Hārūn ar-Rashīd that Baghdad flourished into the most splendid city of its period. Tribute was paid by many rulers to the caliph, and these funds were used on architecture, the arts and a luxurious life at court. In 796 the Caliph Hārūn decided to reign his court and the government to his father like he did before Ar Raqqah at the middle Euphrates. Here he spent 12 years, most of his reign. Only once he returned to Baghdad for a short visit. Several reasons might have influenced the decision to move to ar-Raqqa. It was close to the Byzantine border. The communication lines via the Euphrates to Baghdad and via the Balikh river to the north and via Palmyra to Damascus were excellent. The agriculture was flourishing to support the new Imperial center. And from Raqqa any rebellion in Syria and the middle Euphrates area could be controlled. Abu al-Faraj al-Isfahani pictures in his anthology of poems the splendid life in his court. In ar-Raqqah the Barmekids managed the fate of the empire, and there both heirs, al-Amin and al-Ma'mun grew up. Due to the "Thousand -and-One Nights" tales Harun al-Rashid turned into a legendary figure obscuring his true historic personality. In fact, his reign initiated the political disintegration of the Abbasid caliphate. Syria was inhibited by tribes with Umayyad sympathies and remained the bitter enemy of the Abbasids and Egypt witnessed uprisings against Abbasids due to mal-administration and arbitrary taxation. The Umayyads had been established in Spain in 755 A.D., the Idrisids in the Maghrib(Morocco) in 788 A.D., and the Aghlabids in Ifriqiya(Tunis) in 800 A.D. Besides, unrest flared up in Yemen, and the Kharijites rose in rebellion in Daylam, Kirman, Fars and Sistan. Revolts also broke out in Khurasan. He waged many campaigns against the Byzantines. For the administration of the whole empire he fell back on his mentor and long time associate Yahya bin Khalid bin Barmak. Rashid appointed him as his vazier with full executive powers, and, for seventeen years, this man Yahya and his sons, served Rashid faithfully in whatever assignment he entrusted to them. But Harun al-Rashid in 187 A.H. brutally eliminated all the members of Barmakid family. Al-Rashid appointed Ali bin Isa bin Mahan as the governor of Khurasan. He tried to bring to heel the princes and chieftains of the region, and to reimpose the full authority of the central government on them. This new policy met with fierce resistance and provoked numerous uprisings in the region. A major revolt led by Rafeh bin Layth was started in Samaqand which forced Harun al-Rashid to move to Khurasan. He first removed and arrested Ali bin Isa bin Mahan but the revolt continued unchecked. Harun al-Rashid died very soon when he reached Sanabad village in Toos and was buried in the summer palace of Humaid bin Qahtabah, the former Abbasid governor in Khurasan, situated near the Sanabad village in the Toos region. He imposed heavy taxes on farmers, traders and artisans. He maintained 4000 slave-girls and concubines to entertain him. Al-Rashid virtually dismembered the empire by apportioning it between his two sons al-Amin and al-Ma'mun. Very soon it became clear that by dividing the empire, Rashid had actually helped to set the opposing parties against one another, and had provided them with sufficient resources to become independent of each other. After the death of Harun al-Rashid civil war broke out in the empire between his two sons al-Amin and al-Ma'mun. Both Einhard and Notker the Stammerer refer to envoys travelling between Harun's and Charlemagne's courts, amicable discussions concerning Christian access to the Holy Land and the exchange of gifts. Notker mentions Charlemagne sent Harun Spanish horses, colourful Frisian cloaks and impressive hunting dogs. In 802 Harun sent Charlemagne a present consisting of silks, brass candelabra, perfume, balsam, ivory chessmen, a colossal tent with many-colored curtains, an elephant named Abul-Abbas, and a water clock that marked the hours by dropping bronze balls into a bowl, as mechanical knights — one for each hour — emerged from little doors which shut behind them. The presents were unprecedented in Western Europe and may have influenced Carolingian art. When the Byzantine empress Irene was deposed, Nikephoros I became emperor and refused to pay tribute to Harun, saying that Irene should have been receiving the tribute the whole time[2]. Then Harun became angry and wrote a message on the back of the Roman emperor's letter and said "In the name of God the most merciful, From Amir al-Mu'minin Harun al-Rashid, commander of the faithful, to Nikephoros, the Roman dog.I have read thy letter,Thou shalt not hear, thou shalt behold my reply".Harun took his army to the gates of Rome[3] and bombarded the city with catapults[4]. After seeing the fire power of Harun's army, Nikephoros bent his knees and asked forgiveness[5]. Nikephoros was punished by ordering him to pay double the tribute his territory was paying before[6]. Harun made the pilgrimage to Mecca several times, e.g. 793, 795, 797, 802 and last in 803. Tabari concludes his account of Harun's reign with these words: "It has been said that when Harun al-Rashid died, there were nine hundred million odd (dirhams) in the state treasury. In 808, Harun went to settle the insurrection of Rafi ibn Leith in Transoxania, became ill and died. He was buried under the palace of Hamid ibn Qahtabi, the governor of Greater Khorasan, Iran. The location later became known as Mashhad ("The Place of Martyrdom") because of the martyrdom of Imam Reza (a.s) in 818. Brother please note that this information is from Wikipedia. Mostly they say you can get a lot of information about him in the book called "The book of 1001 nights" but surely it wont be telling about his actual murder's. He was responsible with Imam Musa al-kazim (a.s). He got him poisoned in his cell. He was no different then the ummayad's in my point of view. Abbasid used Shia's to gain revenge from the Ummayad's (just to build their own dynasty). It is clearly seen on the movie serial "Imami azam abu hanifa". Wa salam

Brother's just leave him alone. One of the brother clearly said that Imam Ali (r.a) said don't argue with the fools so leave it. He doesn't even know what he is asking and he is just repeating himself like a parrot saying "show me a proof in the Quran" etc... The Quran talks about Shia as a follower like the brother has said about Ibrahim (A.S). There for the Quran does not tell us to create a sect or group don't your brain take this, or are you just trying to take us as a fool. If you wana follow sunni group then go follow. But just leave us alone. We don't need stupid question's which don't have any sense of humor in it. Look at your question and look at your answer. Ive scrolled up and down about 10 times and all i see is "SHOW ME A PROOF IN THE QURAN " but nothing else from you. Go see a doctor please because you either aint making any sense or your having understanding difficulties. Wa salam. (and sorry about my temper) And finally i just want to say do you actually know the meaning of Shi'ah, Because from your words i have come to a conclusion that you seem to not know what a shia means. Either way i hope this helps.. Shia mean's a FOLLOWER. There for if they say "Shia'tul Allah" means = The Follower of Allah. There for aren't you the follower of Allah ? If they say "Shia'tul Mohammad (pbuh)" means= The Follower of Prophet Mohammad (pbuh). There for aren't you the follower of our beloved prophet ? And there for because we have followed the true Sunnah of our prophet (pbuh) his true Sunnah was thought to us by his Ahlulbayt (a.s).. So i don't know if others agree with me but I am so so proud to be the Shia'tul Allah, Shia'tul Mohammad (pbuh), Shia'tul Ali.(a.s) Wa salam

With this typical inning's it is obvious that you will never know the meaning of beating (matam). First learn what Matam really is then come with your comment's. And secondly who are you to know who is right or who is wrong, have you tried to understand us or have you just came to make a topic out of stupid question. If you really did want to acknowledge something you wouldn't of tried to insult us with your stupid question about portraits. I am sorry mind my language for being a bit harsh but i just cant stand stupid question's. Before you ever !! write or ask question's like the one you have asked here first go over your question and check the error's on it. And finally if you are deciding to be a judge relating to who's wrong or who's right i suggest u settle down with a proper manner, ask with manner, listen with manner and reply with manner. If you cannot do any of them then don't go round telling who is right or who is wrong because you wont find the answer and will just have to continue living with the things that have been thought to you.. wa salam.

Oh Brother's & Sister's Just because i mourn for the shahadat of Imam Hussein (R.A), They say "Muslim should not mourn" Just because i have a artistic potrait of Ahlulbayt (A.S) they call me "Kufar".... But don't they know that even the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) even cried for Aba Abdallah, don't they know that even the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) even cried for his beloved uncle Asadullah Hamza (R.A)... They say "Mourning is haram" but yet the Taliban's cried to death when there Sheik passed away. They say "Having image's (Potraits) are haram" yet Saudi Kingdom hall is full with the wahabi-salafi-deobandi anti-true islamis't anti-real sunnah's followers potrait's (Kings of saudi) In that case id rather have an artistic potrait of the holy Ahlulbayt (A.S) rather than having evil kings potraits. and if you still call it haram just let it be, but be aware truly Allah most gracious most merciful is aware of our act's and intentions so Allah is the only one that judges me. I don't need a Sunni reminding or warning me with his brain washed mentality....

Salamo aleykoom wa rahmatullah. Brothers or sisters i need help, and sorry if it is posted in the wrong area as i couldn't find any other suitable area. I long time ago registered to HAQ CHAR YAAR forum to debate some people. But its been a time i haven't been there. i could say i dont even use it anymore. And today i saw a warning PM sent to me (hotmail alerted me). And i said i dont even use it so why bother. but for some reason i just dont like my hotmail alerting me for that site. so i signed in and tried de-activating my account. and could not find any area... The question is if there are brothers or sisters who has/or still visit that forum knows how to de-activating my account. I would be very grateful if anyone can help. wa salam.

Most Naqshibandi's are from the Ahlu sunnah wal jamaat's Sufi sect, Some state that they are descended from Abu Bakr as the brother has stated above, some state (Qadiri's) they are from the Syed's as they have sect like " Qadiri jamaat husseini sect" which u could find it on www.gavsulazam.de they believe in Twelth Imam as well. but i haven't really understood them fully as the Naqshibandi's in Turkey see Shayh Nazim Al Kibrisi (Hakkani) as their leader's.

If Allah has taken care of our Imam, then who knows if he is sleeping or waiting to be resurrected. Can you see beyond the other world, if you can let us know aswell. I haven't seen anyone compare Isa (A.S) with Muhammad (pbuh) as both were a prophet of Allah. Proof's we have is enough for us, if you want proof, instead of assaulting a shia for their belief's read and re-search more about them first. I know,i understand you Sunni's are 85% brain washed that cannot pick the right from wrong but please search more. Allah's proof is the Holy Quraan, Mohammad (pbuh) and the Ahlulbayt (A.S)... what other proof do u require. Imam Ali bin Musa ar Ridha (A.S) asked the Jews " How come's you believe in Moses (A.S) but deny Jesus (A.S)". They have replied "If he was to do miracle's in our time we would of believed in him, but he didn't live in our time". Then Imam Ali bin Musa ar Ridha (A.S)asked " How come's its that you accept Moses's (A.S) miracle's, yet he wasn't living in your time aswell but then again still deny Jesus's (A.S) miracle's". At this point Jew's had to sit down with mouth shut as they knew they weren't making sense and that the Imam Ali bin Musa ar Ridha (A.S) was right with his every question's and word's.

No my friend, It's not that us Turk's are not ill versed to history. Its just that Sunni's do not make sense to me. One minute they phrase muawiya next minute they say they are the followers of hanafia madhab, then when u ask any further they say muawiya was a great sahabi, then next u ask about umayyads they say (Admit) that the umayyads actually destroyed the style of original Islam. So when has asking about the real Sunnis'm become being ill versed, Just to let u know that 90 % of Turkey follow Hanafi madhab (Well apart from me and few shia brothers and sisters alhamdulillah).