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In the Name of God بسم الله

Munzir Ahmed

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Everything posted by Munzir Ahmed

  1. The system you are forcing me to believe has no basis. Assumptions are not the subsititue for truth. Prove your claims. So far you are failed to verify what you are claiming. I have proven mine. Read following post. Imam Ali for whom you are doing all this himself never used any such thing as an argument neither to abu bakr nor to muawiya. In fact gave bayah to first three caliphs and validated the shura process and later used it as an argument against muawiya and justified his own position of being the caliph by the same process. This all is as per shia history. I repeat ag
  2. Wrong statement. Every caliph (ulil amr) is an Imam (leader) but not every Imam (leader) a caliph (ulil amr). Out of 12 Imams whom you consider divinely appointed, only first two became the caliphs (ulil amr) and that also via consultation process. No one else. He was declared as mawla at ghadir not as caliph or ulil amr. No one from sahabah and ahlebayt considered ghadir in meaning of caliphate at that time. There is no evidence on this from letters, sermons and sayings of Imam Ali. Rather he defended the shura system. http://www.*************/2015/12/12/nahjul-balagh
  3. Read all points with open mind. Dont always pick and choose. May Allah guide you.
  4. Dont put your ignorance on my shoulders. I said: Dont twist my words in order to support your assumptions. I have already answered you all your questions in my various posts on various threads. Go and read again. I dont want to repeat the same stuff again and again like you. The entire basis on which your assumption is based 28:68 has been refuted and proved wrong. So everything that follows it is meaningless.
  5. These are not my assumptions but facts from both shia and sunni history. Verse of consultation explains this verse and the verse after it 4:59. Verse 28:68 do not mention any amr let alone caliphate, its just your assumption that its about caliphate only. In fact verse is about shirk. So your claim as per this verse is meaningless and is invalid. Verse of ulil amr 4:59 is consistant with verse of consultation, amruhum shuran baynahum. THus they consulted for their amr of caliphate and chose an ulil amr. Both verses do mention clearly word amr. No any assumptions. This also has suppor
  6. 1. Let me clarify once again that for guidance it is Book of Allah and sayings of Prophet, job of caliph is to work within the boundaries of these two. Not to recieve any new guidance from Allah and to deliver it to people. Thus obediecne to caliph/ulil amr is made conditional, see Nisa 59. Verse is available as I shown you in other thread which is verifiable as well from prophetic ahadith, words of Imam Ali, from history and from sayings of a vast number of prophetic companions. Unlike the system of imamah which is nothing but a derivation from some unambiguous and unrelated verses of qu
  7. Verse 28:68 do not mention any amr let alone caliphate, its just your assumption that its about caliphate only. In fact verse is about shirk. So your claim as per this verse is meaningless and is invalid. Verse of ulil amr 4:59 is consistant with verse of consultation, amruhum shuran baynahum. THus they consulted for their amr of caliphate and chose an ulil amr. Both verses do mention clearly word amr. No any assumptions. This also has support in prophetic ahadith some of which I quoted in my last posts, also in history and in words ofImam Ali, in letter 6 and in other section of nahjul
  8. This is in contradiction with 28:68, no one is authorized to chose waliullah, wasi-ur-rasoolallah, khalifatullah & hujjatullah. No this is exactly in accordance with the amruhum shura baynahum command of Allah. These words of Imam Ali are the practical implimentation or validation of shura command in Quran. it will be deemed to mean Allah's pleasure. Verse of ulil amr 4:59 is consistant with verse of consultation, amruhum shuran baynahum. THus they consulted for their amr of caliphate and chose an ulil amr. Both verses do mention clearly word amr. No any assumptions. This al
  9. But to whom you consider your divine imams were engaged in taqqiyah even when at home in front of their followers and family instead of struggling hard with their wealth and lives in the way of Allah. In contrast those who were not divine imams from ahlebayt in fact revolted against the tyrants of their time and thus sacrificed their lives and never chosed the path of cowards i.e taqqiyah. This verse indeed define them. Those who sit at home and do taqqiyah and let their followers to go astray instead of guiding them properly (which they are supposed to do) and those who openly raise
  10. At that time Imam Ali was the chosen caliph via consultation. So it was his job to do what you are saying. But Imam did not declare him an apostate. Its not double standard, we are following Imam Ali. Imam Ali was also elected by people as 4th caliph. That was also not by Allah. Later Imam Hassan was also chosed by people not by Allah. After this Imam Hussain was niether chosed by people not by Allah. If you think they and remaining nine others were chosen by Allah then show me Allah's word for each and every Imam?
  11. Then why are you interfering when matter was dicided by Allah swt to be conducted via consultation. Both prophetic narrations and history confirm this. Unlike your claims. Did the verse 28:68 mention caliphate, which is the basis of all your claims on choice is not yours. Which is in fact a verse on shirk. Ok if its right of Allah then show me for your every Imam a word from Allah on their appointment, if you are truthful? Its not against any verse of Quran. Its itself in Quran mentioned as a quality of believers. Thus they chosed caliphs from themselves via consult
  12. If prophet saww had appointed or left any divine leader then saqifa would not have happened at first place. And later all accepted the saqifa incident including Imam Ali, see reports on his bayah to abu bakr. At that time no one including Imam Ali argued like you. If yes show me the example. Did anyone talk at that time about ghadir being divine declaration or anyother thing like this. Your theory is good but in reality carry no weight. The one who became caliph after prophet in reality was rightly guided. Prophetic ahadith confirm this. But here you are looking like a quranist. Who is j
  13. Here is the verse of Quran which you are asking. Not only a verse in fact there is an entire surah with name shura (consultation), while same is not present in your case. I am quoting here the entire passage not just a verse out of context. [36-43] Whatever you have been given, is merely a provision for the transitory life of this world, and that which is with Allah is better as well as more lasting. That is for those who have believed and put their trust in their Lord. Who refrain from gross sins and indecencies. Who, when they are angry, forgive. Who obey their Lord, establish the
  14. Here is the verse of Quran which you are asking. Not only a verse in fact there is an entire surah with name shura (consultation), while same is not present in your case. I am quoting here the entire passage not just a verse out of context. [36-43] Whatever you have been given, is merely a provision for the transitory life of this world, and that which is with Allah is better as well as more lasting. That is for those who have believed and put their trust in their Lord. Who refrain from gross sins and indecencies. Who, when they are angry, forgive. Who obey their Lord, establish the
  15. Again you are taking only a part of verse as usual. See rest part of verse which make things more clear. Obedience to ulil amr is conditional. Final authority is Allah and His Rasool and its the better and good way. This reminds me of letter 6. Verily, those who swore allegiance to Abu Bakr, `Umar and `Uthman have sworn allegiance 1 to me on the same basis on which they swore allegiance to them. (On this basis) he who was present has no choice (to consider), and he who was absent has no right to reject; and consultation is confined to the muhajirun and the ansar. If they agree on an
  16. Talut was a king, who was appointed to serve as military leader only not for their guidance. For guidance they already had a prophet. Have you not considered the assembly of the Children of Israel after [the time of] Moses when they said to a prophet of theirs, “Send us a king, and we will fight in the way of Allah “? He said, “Would you perhaps refrain from fighting if fighting was prescribed for you?” They said, “And why should we not fight in the cause of Allah when we have been driven out from our homes and our children?” But when fighting was prescribed for them, they turned away, ex
  17. This also do not mean that not a single hadith is true with respect to historical context. And its not the only hadith in this matter. There are hundreds other. Refer kitab ul imarah, sahih muslim. Because now its end of prophethood and end of revelation. You can not continue the same tradition by just changing the name from prophet to imam while rest all things are same. There were many things in sharia of bani israel which are not part of this ummah. This ummah never get mann and salwah like them. This ummah got the quran in stages not all at once like them and so on. Really?
  18. Source plz for his such belief? And if his disciple accepted being judge then why to blame the teacher. Will you blame Jafar Sadiq for deviated beliefs of his students? Surely not. History also shows us the other side of Abu hanifa that he refused to be the judge, hecne put to death. And he also supported revolt of Zayd bin Ali, uncle of Jafar Sadiq. Forget about Abu hanifa, he was just his student for some years. How can his own sons become so deviated that they claimed imamah for themselves. While abu hanifa never accepted the offer of being the judge of any tyrant ruler.
  19. Why division occur? when the lineage of 12 Imams was already known to all. How can he do that? he was son of the Imam. Has he not learned from his father about Imamah? what about his other sons, did they also claim imamah for themselves? Will he then go to hell-fire eternally and also those who believed in his imamah at that time?
  20. How you twelver shias view them? were they all twelvers? and how many of them were misguided? can you share your narrations if you know instead of wikipedia.
  21. Was abu hanifa son of any ahlebayt member? Its also possible that his companions had formed a fiqh on his name after his death. Just like we have Jafari fiqh today on name of Jafar Sadiq.
  22. First let tell you for guidance it is book of Allah swt and sayings of Prophet saw. As for ulil amr or caliphs are concerned then their obedience is conditional. See 4:59. So to be honest your question itself is wrong. Moreover I have answered you in different angels in different threads even via words of Imam Ali (as). I can not further spoon feed. Furthermore, why are you ignoring my questions from every thread. Read carefully before beating about the bush. Awaiting your answers for your claims.
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