Hamzah J.

Hi,
Alright. So, yes, sometimes things are not fair. But that example doesn't represent what Baha'u'llah taught. We are not infallible and excommunicating her was not fair. To be honest, I don't believe the story. I'm pretty sure that if she was excommunicated, there had to be another reason.
And, why is this bothering you? Catholic excommunication happens. If you leave Islam, there is capital punishment, that is, if you are in a Muslim country. Disagreeing with the pope is a BIG thing in Catholic dogma; same here: a major infraction and deviation from the authority of the UHJ would result in excommunication. That is, saying that the UHJ has no authority; however, disagreeing with it in trivial matters such as Ruhi is OK.
Okay, so about those people. How are they silenced? All that Baha'is say is that what they are doing is wrong. Rejecting the UHJ is a deviation. Thus, Baha'is would be asked to not communicate with them. Interestingly, that is what Abdul Baha did. When people voiced against him, he just remained quiet. That is what we are doing: remaining quiet because we don't want arguments. We are not going to kill them or anything.
The other verse you quote lacks interpretation. If that is the only verse in the Baha'i literature about the coming of another Manifestation, then you'd be right. But, the overwhelming majority of Baha'i literature talks about the interpretation of "finality." It talks about the irrationality of the Christian belief that Jesus is the Son of God once and for all and no other prophet will come after Jesus. It talks about how to interpret the Qura'anic verse of the khatimiyat. And, thus, since this is a similar verse regarding "the finality of Baha'u'llah" if you wish to call it as such, then it should be interpreted in the same light in which the Islamic khatmiyyat and Christian belief is interpreted. Thus, yes, Baha'u'llah is the last, but he's also the first and there will be another. It's a vicious cycle.
Actually, have you ever read the Iqan? Because it will show you a different way to interpret all of this.
And the verse you quote, here is the explanation: (I'm sorry, I, earlier, mistake the verse you quoted with another one. What you quoted is not in reference to laying a claim before the expiration of 1000 years. (This is at the bottom)
Whoso interpreteth what hath been sent down from the heaven of Revelation, and altereth its evident meaning, he, verily, is of them that have perverted the Sublime Word of God, and is of the lost ones in the Lucid Book.     n130   Whoso interpreteth what hath been sent down from the heaven of Revelation, and altereth its evident meaning
In several of His Tablets, Bahá'u'lláh affirms the distinction between allegorical verses, which are susceptible to interpretation, and those verses that relate to such subjects as the laws and ordinances, worship and religious observances, whose meanings are evident and which demand compliance on the part of the believers.
As explained in notes 145 and 184, Bahá'u'lláh designated 'Abdu'l-Bahá, His eldest Son, as His Successor and the Interpreter of His Teachings. 'Abdu'l-Bahá in His turn appointed His eldest grandson, Shoghi Effendi, to succeed Him as interpreter of the holy Writ and Guardian of the Cause. The interpretations of 'Abdu'l-Bahá and Shoghi Effendi are considered divinely guided and are binding on the Bahá'ís.
The existence of authoritative interpretations does not preclude the individual from engaging in the study of the Teachings and thereby arriving at a personal interpretation or understanding. A clear distinction is, however, drawn in the Bahá'í Writings between authoritative interpretation and the understanding that each individual arrives at from a study of its Teachings. Individual interpretations based on a person's understanding of the Teachings constitute the fruit of man's rational power and may well contribute to a greater comprehension of the Faith. Such views, nevertheless, lack authority. In presenting their personal ideas, individuals are cautioned not to discard the authority of the revealed words, not to deny or contend with the authoritative interpretation, and not to engage in controversy; rather they should offer their thoughts as a contribution to knowledge, making it clear that their views are merely their own.

Hello,
No, it is not crazy. They are trying to create disunity. To keep the community united, they have to excommunicated. However, to be excommunicated, it takes a long time. Regarding Shoghi, well, you see, it was a time of war and Shoghi knows best about travel to Israel, since he remained in Israel, faithful to the holy land. It's an issue of safety. No one is forcing anyone anything. You can choose to follow Baha'u'llah's other son, but, according to mainstream belief, you will be considered a covenant breaker. It is no trivial issue (disuniting the faith).
Also, to be honest, no, the UHJ rarely does anything in the first place. I joined the Baha'i Faith for many years and I have not seen any Baha'i organization telling me what to do. I asked crazy lots of questions, really. And they answered me.
Regarding the quote in the Aqdas, it only refers to one verse in the entire Revelation, which is in regards to proclaiming prophecy before the completion of a 1000 years. Any Baha'i can interpret anything whatever way they want, as long as they don't contradict the Writings of Abdul Baha and Shoghi Effendi and as long as they don't impose it. The UHJ does not interpret anything, actually. It's job is to keep the Baha'i community in shape and going.
Lastly, 
I meant here that anyone who proclaims to be a Manifestation during the Baha'i dispensation is a liar; however, after a 1000 years, then there's a chance he is saying the truth. There is no contradiction.
Best,
Hamzah

Dear Friend,
I heard a lot of stories about Baha'is and excommunication. While it is true that Baha'is may be excommunicated if they try to create sects, it is a very lengthy process. As an experiment, I tried it myself. I talked to the assembly that I wanted to become an Orthodox Baha'i and they told me that it was my choice; however, I would be breaking a law of Baha'u'llah and thus, they would not talk to me. Before that though, they discussed it with me for so long before they were able to label me a covenant breaker. I told them later that I did it for the sole reason to see the implications of breaking the covenant and to verify to what extent those stories are true.
However, if someone leaves the Baha'i Faith, nothing happens. Lots of members (including some family members) left the religion. We would talk about it, for sure. That's love and care; we don't want them to go astray, but we don't push it too far. At all.
UHJ having full control?? Since when? I disagree with the entire Ruhi concept which the UHJ implemented. I think it's biased and does not put into consideration all the cultural differences among the Baha'is of the world. Many Baha'is voice their discontent with Ruhi and it's totally okay. According to the Baha'i Faith, drinking is not allowed. Many Baha'is drink. Now, when they say they want to drink, all the National Assembly (an organization under the UHJ) says "it is between them and God." 
As a matter of fact, I've never seen the Assembly controlling marriages or work or anything. Most of us marry based on our parents' approval and that is. And, we work anywhere.
Regarding the world government, I do see your point in those two quotations. However, let's examine the first quotation. Now, as I said, this unification of the world is inevitable. It is to happen. God, in the revelation of Baha'u'llah, does give and prescribe remedies to the world. However, as Baha'u'llah says in the Iqan, (I'm paraphrasing) "whoever comes forth and believes, to him is his profit, and whoever rejects, to him his rejection." So we're not controlling anything. The Baha'i Faith is the remedy; whoever takes it, takes it. Whoever doesn't, it is between him and God. Now, the remedy, according to the quote, is the unity of humanity in one Cause and one Faith. It's important to note here that "faith" is not "religion" and the "faith" Baha'u'llah talks about is the faith in humanity. No one is enforcing the faith of Baha'u'llah. It is to have faith in humanity and to be unified in one Cause: the advancement of humanity.
Regarding the second quote, it proves my point. Shoghi says "it's watchword is...," meaning the Cause is the unification of humanity, in the standard of which is "the Most Great Peace." That "Most Great Peace" era when people of all races, all religions are unified together under one world government is the Kingdom of God, the Kingdom of Baha'u'llah, because this is Baha'u'llah's vision. However that vision does not say that all people in that Kingdom are Baha'is, nor does it say that the rulers are Baha'i.
For instance, when Martin Luther King starts off his revolution to eliminate racism and when we say "Martin Luther King's dream is fulfilled." Does this mean that the black race will rule everyone? Or that the black race is the only race left? No. Similarly, the "Kingdom of Baha'u'llah" is an allusion to this era of Peace, in which all people are united, under a government the people form. 
Regarding the last quote; it is important to note that this quote comes from a different tablet to the Most Holy Book. Kitab-i-Aqdas mentions a similar quote; however, it adds upon it and it says that "whoever proclaims a message before the passing of 1000 years" is ... etc. Now, if you read the entire passage, Baha'u'llah is talking about this dispensation, which started from the Declaration of the Bab and will end 1000 years after 1844, which means that whoever (other than the Bab and Baha'u'llah) proclaims, before the passing of 1000 years, that he is a prophet, he certainly is a liar. It is important to note that all key writings of Baha'u'llah mention the coming of a new prophet. Read the Kitab-i-Iqan to see what I mean.
My brother in faith, thank you so much for bring these into attention and this is the type of conversation I would like to indulge in. I do not want to argue, just discuss. (Also, we share the same "faith," the belief in God, even if we don't share the same religion. You are my brother and so are all the rest of you.)
Hamzah

Hey, I wanted to create this thread and, as a Baha'i, I am interested in creating a HEALTHY debate about whether or not Baha'u'llah and the Bab are truly prophets. 
I would request from all those who would like to comment to not insult anyone, including Baha'u'llah, the Bab. This is meant to be a healthy conversation. 
FYI, I speak perfect Arabic so I have no problem explaining things in Arabic or verses, etc. from the Baha'i writings.