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In the Name of God بسم الله

Hamzah J.

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Everything posted by Hamzah J.

  1. Hey Badi, I don't know why but PMing you didn't work... can you PM me?
  2. Hi Badi, Is it possible here to able to talk on a persona level? Instead of using the forum? Thanks!
  3. Farhana! I never said that! The Baha'i Faith is still the faith I have been in for so long. I have the right to doubt it. And, I am not projecting myself as a hardcore Baha'i. I was protecting and justifying my Faith. You guys have given me insight into things I could research. I am not rejecting it. I am just doubting it and I have the right to do that.
  4. Hello, Thank you, Badi, for sharing these. I would look further into them. Do you think that this is what Baha'u'llah intended to see in the Baha'is; or are Baha'is not following their own laws and ordinances? Hamzah
  5. Hello Hadez, (and everyone here) I came here to see what you guys think of the Faith I've been in for so long. Seeing what you had to say made me think more about my faith and thanks for that. I mentioned that I have to study more about Shia Islam and Islam, in general. Regarding the messages you sent, I actually talked to the Baha'i community to why this is happening, because to be honest, so many people in my Baha'i community have chosen to follow Mirza Muhammad Ali or Mason Remey and we just avoid talking about religion to them. And to those who leave, we haven't treated them anywhere close to badly. So, yes, we are asked to delete messages from them, because we don't want to cause conflict. However, inflicting harm on them... that's not going to happen. However, I do see your objections, of course, and will look further into it. Till next time, Peace.
  6. Hi, Let's not talk about Ahmediya. It's not the topic. The topic is Baha'i Faith; not Ahmediya and I don't know much about it anyways. And, we believe that the Bab was the spiritual return of the Mahdi and the beginning of the new cycle in prophethood. And, Baha'u'llah is the spiritual return of Jesus Christ. In 1000 years a new prophet will come, with a new revelation.
  7. Hi, Alright. So, yes, sometimes things are not fair. But that example doesn't represent what Baha'u'llah taught. We are not infallible and excommunicating her was not fair. To be honest, I don't believe the story. I'm pretty sure that if she was excommunicated, there had to be another reason. And, why is this bothering you? Catholic excommunication happens. If you leave Islam, there is capital punishment, that is, if you are in a Muslim country. Disagreeing with the pope is a BIG thing in Catholic dogma; same here: a major infraction and deviation from the authority of the UHJ would result in excommunication. That is, saying that the UHJ has no authority; however, disagreeing with it in trivial matters such as Ruhi is OK. Okay, so about those people. How are they silenced? All that Baha'is say is that what they are doing is wrong. Rejecting the UHJ is a deviation. Thus, Baha'is would be asked to not communicate with them. Interestingly, that is what Abdul Baha did. When people voiced against him, he just remained quiet. That is what we are doing: remaining quiet because we don't want arguments. We are not going to kill them or anything. The other verse you quote lacks interpretation. If that is the only verse in the Baha'i literature about the coming of another Manifestation, then you'd be right. But, the overwhelming majority of Baha'i literature talks about the interpretation of "finality." It talks about the irrationality of the Christian belief that Jesus is the Son of God once and for all and no other prophet will come after Jesus. It talks about how to interpret the Qura'anic verse of the khatimiyat. And, thus, since this is a similar verse regarding "the finality of Baha'u'llah" if you wish to call it as such, then it should be interpreted in the same light in which the Islamic khatmiyyat and Christian belief is interpreted. Thus, yes, Baha'u'llah is the last, but he's also the first and there will be another. It's a vicious cycle. Actually, have you ever read the Iqan? Because it will show you a different way to interpret all of this. And the verse you quote, here is the explanation: (I'm sorry, I, earlier, mistake the verse you quoted with another one. What you quoted is not in reference to laying a claim before the expiration of 1000 years. (This is at the bottom) Whoso interpreteth what hath been sent down from the heaven of Revelation, and altereth its evident meaning, he, verily, is of them that have perverted the Sublime Word of God, and is of the lost ones in the Lucid Book. n130 Whoso interpreteth what hath been sent down from the heaven of Revelation, and altereth its evident meaning In several of His Tablets, Bahá'u'lláh affirms the distinction between allegorical verses, which are susceptible to interpretation, and those verses that relate to such subjects as the laws and ordinances, worship and religious observances, whose meanings are evident and which demand compliance on the part of the believers. As explained in notes 145 and 184, Bahá'u'lláh designated 'Abdu'l-Bahá, His eldest Son, as His Successor and the Interpreter of His Teachings. 'Abdu'l-Bahá in His turn appointed His eldest grandson, Shoghi Effendi, to succeed Him as interpreter of the holy Writ and Guardian of the Cause. The interpretations of 'Abdu'l-Bahá and Shoghi Effendi are considered divinely guided and are binding on the Bahá'ís. The existence of authoritative interpretations does not preclude the individual from engaging in the study of the Teachings and thereby arriving at a personal interpretation or understanding. A clear distinction is, however, drawn in the Bahá'í Writings between authoritative interpretation and the understanding that each individual arrives at from a study of its Teachings. Individual interpretations based on a person's understanding of the Teachings constitute the fruit of man's rational power and may well contribute to a greater comprehension of the Faith. Such views, nevertheless, lack authority. In presenting their personal ideas, individuals are cautioned not to discard the authority of the revealed words, not to deny or contend with the authoritative interpretation, and not to engage in controversy; rather they should offer their thoughts as a contribution to knowledge, making it clear that their views are merely their own.
  8. Hello, No, it is not crazy. They are trying to create disunity. To keep the community united, they have to excommunicated. However, to be excommunicated, it takes a long time. Regarding Shoghi, well, you see, it was a time of war and Shoghi knows best about travel to Israel, since he remained in Israel, faithful to the holy land. It's an issue of safety. No one is forcing anyone anything. You can choose to follow Baha'u'llah's other son, but, according to mainstream belief, you will be considered a covenant breaker. It is no trivial issue (disuniting the faith). Also, to be honest, no, the UHJ rarely does anything in the first place. I joined the Baha'i Faith for many years and I have not seen any Baha'i organization telling me what to do. I asked crazy lots of questions, really. And they answered me. Regarding the quote in the Aqdas, it only refers to one verse in the entire Revelation, which is in regards to proclaiming prophecy before the completion of a 1000 years. Any Baha'i can interpret anything whatever way they want, as long as they don't contradict the Writings of Abdul Baha and Shoghi Effendi and as long as they don't impose it. The UHJ does not interpret anything, actually. It's job is to keep the Baha'i community in shape and going. Lastly, I meant here that anyone who proclaims to be a Manifestation during the Baha'i dispensation is a liar; however, after a 1000 years, then there's a chance he is saying the truth. There is no contradiction. Best, Hamzah
  9. Dear Friend, I heard a lot of stories about Baha'is and excommunication. While it is true that Baha'is may be excommunicated if they try to create sects, it is a very lengthy process. As an experiment, I tried it myself. I talked to the assembly that I wanted to become an Orthodox Baha'i and they told me that it was my choice; however, I would be breaking a law of Baha'u'llah and thus, they would not talk to me. Before that though, they discussed it with me for so long before they were able to label me a covenant breaker. I told them later that I did it for the sole reason to see the implications of breaking the covenant and to verify to what extent those stories are true. However, if someone leaves the Baha'i Faith, nothing happens. Lots of members (including some family members) left the religion. We would talk about it, for sure. That's love and care; we don't want them to go astray, but we don't push it too far. At all. UHJ having full control?? Since when? I disagree with the entire Ruhi concept which the UHJ implemented. I think it's biased and does not put into consideration all the cultural differences among the Baha'is of the world. Many Baha'is voice their discontent with Ruhi and it's totally okay. According to the Baha'i Faith, drinking is not allowed. Many Baha'is drink. Now, when they say they want to drink, all the National Assembly (an organization under the UHJ) says "it is between them and God." As a matter of fact, I've never seen the Assembly controlling marriages or work or anything. Most of us marry based on our parents' approval and that is. And, we work anywhere. Regarding the world government, I do see your point in those two quotations. However, let's examine the first quotation. Now, as I said, this unification of the world is inevitable. It is to happen. God, in the revelation of Baha'u'llah, does give and prescribe remedies to the world. However, as Baha'u'llah says in the Iqan, (I'm paraphrasing) "whoever comes forth and believes, to him is his profit, and whoever rejects, to him his rejection." So we're not controlling anything. The Baha'i Faith is the remedy; whoever takes it, takes it. Whoever doesn't, it is between him and God. Now, the remedy, according to the quote, is the unity of humanity in one Cause and one Faith. It's important to note here that "faith" is not "religion" and the "faith" Baha'u'llah talks about is the faith in humanity. No one is enforcing the faith of Baha'u'llah. It is to have faith in humanity and to be unified in one Cause: the advancement of humanity. Regarding the second quote, it proves my point. Shoghi says "it's watchword is...," meaning the Cause is the unification of humanity, in the standard of which is "the Most Great Peace." That "Most Great Peace" era when people of all races, all religions are unified together under one world government is the Kingdom of God, the Kingdom of Baha'u'llah, because this is Baha'u'llah's vision. However that vision does not say that all people in that Kingdom are Baha'is, nor does it say that the rulers are Baha'i. For instance, when Martin Luther King starts off his revolution to eliminate racism and when we say "Martin Luther King's dream is fulfilled." Does this mean that the black race will rule everyone? Or that the black race is the only race left? No. Similarly, the "Kingdom of Baha'u'llah" is an allusion to this era of Peace, in which all people are united, under a government the people form. Regarding the last quote; it is important to note that this quote comes from a different tablet to the Most Holy Book. Kitab-i-Aqdas mentions a similar quote; however, it adds upon it and it says that "whoever proclaims a message before the passing of 1000 years" is ... etc. Now, if you read the entire passage, Baha'u'llah is talking about this dispensation, which started from the Declaration of the Bab and will end 1000 years after 1844, which means that whoever (other than the Bab and Baha'u'llah) proclaims, before the passing of 1000 years, that he is a prophet, he certainly is a liar. It is important to note that all key writings of Baha'u'llah mention the coming of a new prophet. Read the Kitab-i-Iqan to see what I mean. My brother in faith, thank you so much for bring these into attention and this is the type of conversation I would like to indulge in. I do not want to argue, just discuss. (Also, we share the same "faith," the belief in God, even if we don't share the same religion. You are my brother and so are all the rest of you.) Hamzah
  10. 1) First of all, I do not know much about Seth. However, if he did have to hide his religion, that doesn't mean he did not have any good fruits. Of course, he had to have a few followers, even if it was in secret. And, the fruits don't have to show during his only life time. They could be after his death. We remember him now for his fruits as a prophet. However, Mirza Ghulam was a different story. If the root is wrong, then everything is wrong. They accept a Sunni approach to the successor of Muhammad, which already is a deviation. We Baha'is accept the Shi'a approach. Secondly, just look at the Ahmedi sect. I'm not saying they are wrong, but just look at their practices! Ex communication, full control of members, etc. It is crazy. You know we Baha'is don't have this. Yes, we do ex communicate people who deviate from the covenant, but not people who leave. My brother left the Faith with no problem at all. 2) Baha'u'llah's purpose was not unity, really. Unity of mankind is an inevitable process. Baha'u'llah came as a mubashir and a nadhir, a warner of a proclaimer of happy tidings to all. Unity was the bishara; however, we need to do it right and this is what we warned. Of course, Baha'is won't be controlling the world when unity occurs; simply, we might offer suggestions from our holy writings to improve the united system. 3) Regarding the Khadtmeiyat; first of all, the Qur'an is the most important text in Islam. What I mentioned earlier about nabi and rasul could be irrelevant, since it is only a Baha'i response, but Baha'u'llah never mentioned it; in fact, Baha'u'llah says that Muhammad sealed the prophethood and the messenger-ship. However, Baha'u'llah did say, and I believe I have mentioned this earlier, that a prophet is the beginning and the last. The Qur'an says this, too. Adam was the first, but he was also the last. Muhammad was the last but also the first. There is no beginning, no last. Baha'u'llah is Jesus, is Muhammad, is Adam. This a cycle never ending. A circle has no beginning and no end. 4) Because Baha'is made it up to justify their claims. It's not accurate, since Baha'u'llah does not mention it. 5) Regarding the Mahdi, what do you think? Come on guys. If you blame me for misinterpreting something clear, then the Hadith I mentioned to you is as clear as the sun. what do you think "book" means. A "new" book? Clearly, a new revelation. A new "amr"? It's so clear. Now, I know what will you next. Why is it that sometimes you say something is metaphorical and sometimes say its literal. Here's an explanation: http://bahaiteachings.org/decoding-prophetic-code-one-bahai-example. Thank you. PS: please, if we were to have a proper conversation, don't call the Baha'i Faith a cult.
  11. Ya. We are not zionists. I wasn't unable to answer the questions. I did, earlier, but you guys keep asking the same questions, so if you wanted me to answer anything, tell me exactly what questions there are and I'll give you a response from a Baha'i perspective.
  12. Hey everyone. I am so sorry for this late reply; I had to go back to the Emirates where ShiaChat is unfortunately blocked and censored. Going back, I think that before I talk more about Baha'is and Shi'as, can you guys help me in understanding Shia Islam first? When I became a Baha'i I didn't consider all it's origins. I'm not saying Baha'is or Shi'as are right or wrong, but just as many of you made wrong claims about Baha'is, I think I have made claims about Shi'a beliefs from a very Baha'i perspective. In other words, I want to learn about Shi'a Islam from a Shi'a perspective. Anyone for help in where to start?
  13. Salam! Please do not call the Baha'i Faith a cult, because it is not. Regardless, we do accept that Khatimiyyat of Risalah, but not Nubuwwa. We simply interpret differently. And, why do we reject Mirza Ghulam Ahmed? Because a prophet is measured by his or her fruits. What benefit has Ghulam Ahmed brought to humanity? What benefit has he brought by saying that Jesus went to Kashmir? Nothing. Utterly nothing. The Baha'i Faith's emphasis on unity is the fruit of the religion. His calls to the world leaders to unite before the world wars is a call for unity. And, now... look at this! We live in shame as we haven't answered the calls of God himself. (I am not saying Baha'u'llah is God, but his message is from God." Able Faadhil, you mention a hadith. I told you my interpretation. But, let me ask you, how about the hadith of Imam Sadiq? The hadith that the Mahdi comes with a new book, and a new law?
  14. P.S. prophets are alpha and omega, first and last. Finality of prophethood also means beginning of a new prophethood, if you get what I mean. They are one and the same. Another thing is that Muhammad is khatam al-nabiyyin, the last who prophecies OF judgement day. He's the last "prophet" who gives the "naba'," the great news and tidings of the coming of the new cycle, the day of judgment and the day when a new age will usher. He is however, not the final "resool," meaning that there will be further apostles and messengers coming. I understand the common Islamic argument that every nabi is a rasool; however, we reject that. We look the Arabic word, from the origin. Where in the Quran does it say that every nabi is a resool? In other words, they are two distinct concepts. However, the logical answer is that a nabi HAS to also be a resool, because he prophecies. However, that does not mean that there can be a nabi without being a rasool. Khidr for examples prophesied and was very wise, but he didn't preach; he could have been a nabi, but not a rasool. Baha'u'llah is a resool, but not a nabi; he doesn't have to prophecy anymore if he is the prophecy in the first place.
  15. The verse regarding Daniel is 12:4 of the Christian Bible. Regarding the hadith, this is the Sanad: وأخبرنا علي بن الحسين بإسناده عن أحمد بن محمد بن أبى نصر، عن عاصم ابن حميد الحناط، عن أبي بصير قال: قال أبو جعفر (عليه السلام): " يقوم القائم بأمر جديد، وكتاب جديد، وقضاء جديد ، على العرب شديد، ليس شأنه إلا السيف، لا يستتيب أحدا، ولا يأخذه في الله لومة لائم ". If you want the exact sources from Shi'i books, I am not sure as I currently am traveling and do not have my books with me. Any Google search and you will see how often it is repeated in Shi'i websites, despite its interpretation being different. As for you, LinkZelda, Baha'is don't cherry pick what is literal and what is metaphorical. You could try reading this: http://bahaiteachings.org/decoding-prophetic-code-one-bahai-example# I really want to know your opinions. I want to engage in a proper "investigation of truth".
  16. Yes. True, but the thing is. Daniel said in the Torah that he sealed the book and that there will be no book coming until the end of times. NIV Bible: But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge." Jesus says he is the truth, the way and the life and NO ONE shall come to the father except through him (Jesus). In other words, Muhammad meant something else when it was revealed that he was the seal of prophets. He sealed one cycle of prophecy and ended it. Even Imam Sadiq said that the Qaim comes with a new book: يقوم القائم بأمر جديد وكتاب جديد وبقضاء جديد على العرب شديد In another perspective, all prophets are one and the same, meaning that the "return of Jesus" symbolically also refers to the return of Muhammad, Moses, etc, which also means that the "return of Jesus" is the coming of a NEW prophet. What do you think
  17. Hey, I wanted to create this thread and, as a Baha'i, I am interested in creating a HEALTHY debate about whether or not Baha'u'llah and the Bab are truly prophets. I would request from all those who would like to comment to not insult anyone, including Baha'u'llah, the Bab. This is meant to be a healthy conversation. FYI, I speak perfect Arabic so I have no problem explaining things in Arabic or verses, etc. from the Baha'i writings.
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