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In the Name of God بسم الله


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Cool last won the day on June 23

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  1. Hi Dave!! Yes, but you need to see this in context with the earlier verses, specifically this: This means whatever he did, did by the permission of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) (be-ithnillah) or in Arabic باذن الله Thanks for quoting these verses. Regards!!
  2. محمد بن يحيى، عن محمد بن الحسين، عن ابن محبوب، عن إسحاق بن عمار قال: قال أبو عبد الله عليه السلام: للقائم غيبتان: إحداهما قصيرة والأخرى طويلة، الغيبة الأولى لا يعلم بمكانه فيها إلا خاصة شيعته، والأخرى لا يعلم بمكانه فيها إلا خاصة مواليه


    1. AbdusSibtayn



      May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) grant us the tawfeeq to be included among those 'mawālī' , and to serve Ibn az-Zahra (aj)! 


  3. This is called game of words. Don't play with us @Zaidism. It is not incumbent on Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) or Imam (عليه السلام) to guide "everyone" whether the one comes to him or not, whether anyone seeks his guidance or not. وَلَقَدْ سَبَقَتْ كَلِمَتُنَا لِعِبَادِنَا الْمُرْسَلِينَ إِنَّهُمْ لَهُمُ الْمَنْصُورُونَ وَإِنَّ جُنْدَنَا لَهُمُ الْغَالِبُونَ فَتَوَلَّ عَنْهُمْ حَتَّىٰ حِينٍ Thls "fatawalla anhum hatta heen" is repeated in the same chapter onece again. Some people demanded the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) to bring the punishment he (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was warning with. أَفَبِعَذَابِنَا يَسْتَعْجِلُونَ فَإِذَا نَزَلَ بِسَاحَتِهِمْ فَسَاءَ صَبَاحُ الْمُنْذَرِينَ وَتَوَلَّ عَنْهُمْ حَتَّىٰ حِينٍ وَأَبْصِرْ فَسَوْفَ يُبْصِرُونَ (37:171-179) (And certainly Our word has already gone forth in respect of Our servants, the messengers: Most surely they shall be the assisted ones. And most surely Our host alone shall be the victorious ones.Therefore turn away from them till a time,) It is not even incumbent on Imam (عليه السلام) to guide his shias (if he don't deem it necessary or if there is a command from God to turn away from them and leave them for a while.) It is not incumbent on Imam (عليه السلام) to take out sword unlike what you believe about Imamate. يدعو لنفسه بالإمامة ويخرج بالسيف An Imam is the one who acts according to the will of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), he wills only that which Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) wills. وما تشاؤن الا ان يشاء الله And you can get the example of this from the story of Musa (عليه السلام) & Khizr (عليه السلام): فَأَرَدْتُ أَنْ أَعِيبَهَا (I wished that I should damage it) فَأَرَدْنَا أَنْ يُبْدِلَهُمَا رَبُّهُمَا (So we desired that their Lord might give them in his place) فَأَرَادَ رَبُّكَ (so your Lord desired) And after this he said: ۚ وَمَا فَعَلْتُهُ عَنْ أَمْرِي (and I did it not upon my own command)
  4. Yet another blow to your OP. You have now reduced the role of Imam from guiding "everyone" to guiding the "Shia" only. This statement has totally collapsed your so called "decisive refutation".
  5. Salam Brother! I was talking with reference to the claim that "it is incumbent on Imam (عليه السلام) to guide everyone" So first of all, we know the fact that Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is the first & he is the last (of the Prophets). As the famous hadith says: كنت نبيا و أدم بين الماء والطين And the following too: اول ما خلق الله نوري We also know that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has taken the covenant from every Prophet to help & support the seal of the Prophets (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). So Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) infact foretold the coming of Messenger (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) but no one (exceptions are still there, but very little) knows him until he proclaimed his status. He stayed within that ignorant society without being recognized as Prophet for approximately 40 years. We also know that when he received the first wahi, he never rushed to people for proclaiming his status. Instead he waited for the divine command to descend and then we see دعوت ذوالعشيرة happened. So my brother, our belief is that the Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was a Prophet prior to his arrival, He was a Prophet since his birth and He still is a Prophet even after his departure from this world. And my intention was to show that Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) & Imams guides humanity by the command of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and that they do not operate on their own will (i e., With the divine command). I hope that I am now clear. Wassalam!!
  6. So for you, the fundamental thing is that an Imam must guide as it is incumbent on him to guide irrespective of God's will. So has Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) sent the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) just because people were looking for him? Or even waiting for him to come and guide them? And how can anyone's coming to Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) obligates the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) to guide him? While the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) does not speak out of his own desire. And we also have the following verse: إِنَّكَ لَا تَهْدِي مَنْ أَحْبَبْتَ وَلَكِنَّ اللَّهَ يَهْدِي مَن يَشَاء وَهُوَ أَعْلَمُ بِالْمُهْتَدِينَ 28:56 We will discuss this matter in detail later on. At the moment you should come back to the basic fact i.e., it is not incumbent on Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) or Imam (عليه السلام) to guide "everyone" which is opposite to what has been mentioned in your OP, the so called "decisive refutation".
  7. Guiding or not guiding is a secondary matter. The question is from your so called "decisive refutation", from its very first sentence: Was it incumbent on Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) to guide "everyone"? Before you answer, keep in mind the verse below: لَّيْسَ عَلَيْكَ هُدَاهُمْ وَلَـكِنَّ اللّهَ يَهْدِي مَن يَشَاء For the existence of Imam, the guidance (tashri'i & takweeni) through him, we have sufficient proof with us. Problem is in your argument which is demanding the Imam to guide "everyone" in any case i.e., not even considering the very Being (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) who is the Absolute Guide & the sole owner of system of guidance. For Imam Mehdi (عليه السلام) and his guidance, we already had discussions in different threads. I am no longer interested in discussing them or quoting them. At the moment, you are trapped in your own given "decisive refutation", at its very first sentence and are not finding a way out for yourself . By the way, please enlighten us how many of your Imams embraced martyrdom through sword or poison? I will remind you a hadith from your books after listening your answer
  8. I will not let you go with this statement. Here is a decisive verse: وَجَعَلْنَا مِنْهُمْ أَئِمَّةً يَهْدُونَ بِأَمْرِنَا 32:24) And We appointed, from among them, leaders, giving guidance under Our command. Now this verse would take you to 12 leaders, the life of Prophet Musa (عليه السلام) has a deep connection & similarity with Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), as mentioned in the hadith al-manzilah. You will find bearers of divine covenant in the nation of Musa (عليه السلام) and the same numbers of the bearers of divine covenant are in the nation of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم): وَلَقَدْ أَخَذَ اللّهُ مِيثَاقَ بَنِي إِسْرَآئِيلَ وَبَعَثْنَا مِنهُمُ اثْنَيْ عَشَرَ نَقِيبًا 5:12) And certainly Allah made a covenant with the children of Israel, and We raised up among them twelve chieftains Having said all this, I am still asking the same question again Sir.
  9. Hi Dave!! Here is something for you: "The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor.He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to set the oppressed free" Luke 4:18 What has been mentioned in above verse is understood as "Wilayat e Takwiniyah" by us. So does he really need the permission from God (each & every time he cured the blind or deaf)? or he just had the authority to do that & he only did what is willed by God (the father). Like Asif bin Barqiyyah brought the throne of Queen prior to the blink of an eye. (27:40 of Quran).
  10. Salam!! Being the student of Quran, I would accept that "understanding" Quran is very difficult indeed. The main problem in understanding any "kalam" (speech) is to grasp what the speaker is intending to say!! And had the Quran (in its book for alone) easy to understand, people would not require a perfect teacher in the form of "Insaan e Kamil" which Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has sent. That's the reason why we have so many tafasir of Quran and we have so many explanations of the ahadith of Aimma e Tahireen (عليه السلام). The sudden shift from literal to analogical, makes it very difficult. So God has a face like ours or hand or shin like ours? Wajhullah is mentioned, yadullah, saaq etc. Everything is there in Quran. One can even face difficulty in understanding the basic concept of touheed without the support of the teacher (s) appointed by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) for this very purpose: لَا تُحَرِّكْ بِهِ لِسَانَكَ لِتَعْجَلَ بِهِ {16} [Shakir 75:16] Do not move your tongue with it to make haste with it, إِنَّ عَلَيْنَا جَمْعَهُ وَقُرْآنَهُ {17} [Shakir 75:17] Surely on Us (devolves) the collecting of it and the reciting of it. فَإِذَا قَرَأْنَاهُ فَاتَّبِعْ قُرْآنَهُ {18} [Shakir 75:18] Therefore when We have recited it, follow its recitation. ثُمَّ إِنَّ عَلَيْنَا بَيَانَهُ {19} [Shakir 75:19] Again on Us (devolves) the explaining of it. I do believe that in the disappearance of speaking Quran, this Quran, available with us in its book form, is not sufficient. We will remain in need of the speaking form of Quran for our guidance as well as understanding.
  11. Salam! Please stay on this very first sentence for a while. I hope that you too believe that Imam is a hujjah of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) upon everyone. I am more concerned about the bold part quoted above. How it is "incumbent" upon Imam to "guide" everyone? While an Imam guides according to the command of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) وَجَعَلْنَاهُمْ أَئِمَّةً يَهْدُونَ بِأَمْرِنَا I hope you know what بِأَمْرِنَا means here. And while Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has said this: مَن يَهْدِ اللّهُ فَهُوَ الْمُهْتَدِي And this: لَّيْسَ عَلَيْكَ هُدَاهُمْ وَلَـكِنَّ اللّهَ يَهْدِي مَن يَشَاء Do you think that the hujjah of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) operates on his own? Without divine command or consent? It seems to me that your so called "decisive refutation" collapsed on its very first sentence. Wassalam!!
  12. :bismillah:

    وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَنْ يَعْبُدُ اللَّهَ عَلَىٰ حَرْفٍ ۖ فَإِنْ أَصَابَهُ خَيْرٌ اطْمَأَنَّ بِهِ ۖ وَإِنْ أَصَابَتْهُ فِتْنَةٌ انْقَلَبَ عَلَىٰ وَجْهِهِ خَسِرَ الدُّنْيَا وَالْآخِرَةَ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ هُوَ الْخُسْرَانُ الْمُبِينُ {11}

    [Shakir 22:11] And among men is he who serves Allah (standing) on the verge, so that if good befalls him he is satisfied therewith, but if a trial afflict him he turns back headlong; he loses this world as well as the hereafter; that is a manifest loss.

    ربنا ثبت قلوبنا و توفنا مسلمين

  13. This is the very basis on which the whole content in the OP was written. According to Imam Al-Sadiq (عليه السلام): الإمام الصادق (عليه السلام): ليس العلم بالتعلم، إنما هو نور يقع في قلب من يريد الله تبارك وتعالى أن يهديه Knowledge, according to him, is Noor which reaches to the heart of the one whom Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) intends to guide. So question arises, has Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) sent Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) with guidance or without guidance? Quran categorically mentions in more than one places: هُوَ الَّذِي أَرْسَلَ رَسُولَهُ بِالْهُدَى وَدِينِ الْحَقِّ Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) infact has sent Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) with guidance and deen al-haqq. Sending someone with guidance automatically means sending someone with knowledge. So the whole content of the OP is a display of ignorance of the very definition of knowledge. The contents in the OP has ignored the very important stories mentioned in Quran. For instance: 1. The story of Khidr (عليه السلام) & Musa (عليه السلام) in Al-Kahf where Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has introduced Khidr (عليه السلام) as a servant whom Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has granted knowledge from Himself: فَوَجَدَا عَبْدًا مِّنْ عِبَادِنَا آتَيْنَاهُ رَحْمَةً مِنْ عِندِنَا وَعَلَّمْنَاهُ مِن لَّدُنَّا عِلْمًا 18:65 2. Prophet Jesus (عليه السلام) who spoke while he was in the cradle: قَالَ إِنِّي عَبْدُ اللَّهِ آتَانِيَ الْكِتَابَ وَجَعَلَنِي نَبِيًّا 19:30 3. And the fact mentioned in Quran when Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has taken the covenant from all the Prophets: وَإِذْ أَخَذَ اللّهُ مِيثَاقَ النَّبِيِّيْنَ لَمَا آتَيْتُكُم مِّن كِتَابٍ وَحِكْمَةٍ ثُمَّ جَاءكُمْ رَسُولٌ مُّصَدِّقٌ لِّمَا مَعَكُمْ لَتُؤْمِنُنَّ بِهِ وَلَتَنصُرُنَّهُ قَالَ أَأَقْرَرْتُمْ وَأَخَذْتُمْ عَلَى ذَلِكُمْ إِصْرِي قَالُواْ أَقْرَرْنَا قَالَ فَاشْهَدُواْ وَأَنَاْ مَعَكُم مِّنَ الشَّاهِدِينَ 3:81 I can present much more from Quran, but at the moment what has been quoted should be sufficient to puncture the claim that Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was born "not learned" (na'udobillah). These sort of statements are blasphemous, keeping in view the very role & duties of Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) as mentioned in the beginning verses of Al-Jumma as well as what Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) himself mentioned about his prophethood: هُوَ الَّذِي بَعَثَ فِي الْأُمِّيِّينَ رَسُولًا مِّنْهُمْ يَتْلُو عَلَيْهِمْ آيَاتِهِ وَيُزَكِّيهِمْ وَيُعَلِّمُهُمُ الْكِتَابَ وَالْحِكْمَةَ وَإِن كَانُوا مِن قَبْلُ لَفِي ضَلَالٍ مُّبِينٍ 62:2 كنت نبيا و أدم بين الماء والطين اول ما خلق الله نوري I have yet to discuss the contents of OP, the verses of Quran quoted therein and their possible interpretations. But before going into details, I would like @Zaidism to share his understanding of "knowledge" in the light the verses of Quran. Lastly, I would like to mention that we believe that the source of every form of Knowledge is Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), may it be knowledge of seen or unseen. Those who deny the fact that Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) has access to knowledge of unseen can easily be rejected by the verses of Quran which categorically mention his access to the knowledge of unseen. And the same can be said about the Imams of Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام).
  14. الحمد لله الذي جعل اعدائنا من الحمقى I am not surprised to see the inability of Zaidi scholars to grasp the very simple concept as well as the verses of Quran. May be I will respond to the content shared by @Zaidism in the OP, if I got enough time Insha Allah
  15. There is no failure except in no longer trying.

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