wmehar2

77:1 doesn't send messengers in a gust? I'm not sure if the question is relevant unless there is only ever one consistent use for these words for objects

We have subtle but different interpretations. A command from us we are the senders (of the book not apostles in my interpretation ) But... I don't know if "it" necesarily means whole book. If someone recites or is reciting a verse, it's appropriate to say they are reciting Qur'an, it is also appropriate to say theyre rwitig a specific chapter of Qur'an.. you know what I mean ? Well either way I'm open to it meaning it could have been the whole book. But I stand by that if that was the case... the Prophet did not memorize or absorb it all that night.

Well I'm not entirely opposed. I reasoned it's either revealed only in stages to Muhammad or ummah, or revealed all on night of al qadr and revealed again in stages but not absorbed all by Muhammad that night. I cannot find absolutely explicit detail concerning amount revealed on laylatulqadr. "Indeed we are sending" indicates present tense not past tense (sent). From chapter 44, so I lean towards only revealed in stages during Muhammad's life.

We interpret these different brother. I would also include verse 5. The plain word by word translation : 44: 2-5 ----------- By the book, the clear Indeed We revealed it in a night blessed Indeed We are warning Therein is made distinct every affair wise a command from us Indeed We are sending ******* ----------- I have pondered over this before...... I think I've reasoned it was possible but not likely that it was all revealed all in one night, (which is not really a conclusio) . But if so it was not absorbed completely. Ill show you why I think as such. Firstly I'm not seeing direct statement here ..that it was all revealed in one night. It begins by saying by the " Book , the clear !" Like your translation I see that as swearing by it. Indeed we revealed it on a blessed night (can mean parts or all of it) Indeed We are warning ***Therein is made distinct every affair wise a command from us Indeed We are sending *** I read this as a part of completing the first statement, " I swear by the clear book that was revealed on blessed night " that in the Book is every wise affair/command made distinct . Simply : Guidance for all affairs distinct, which are also a command (to obey ).... Then... "Indeed we are sending" Why Is it not "indeed we have sent ?" Why not "indeed we have warned?" My only conclusion could be the qurans existence was revealed to Muhammad, with the initial verses he recieved. The verses continue to be sent and continue to be as warning. The Qur'an/book preexisted Muhammad, but Muhammad had no knowledge of it per other Qur'an verses. Along with other verses mentioned here. If Muhammad was for example, revealed the Qur'an before he was born or when he was born, the statement that "it was not known to me " becomes redundant and unnecessary. So why did Allah command him to say that ? Therefore , these reasons are sufficient to me that Qur'an was not entirely revealed to Muhammad until the final verse towards end of 23 years.

It could not have been in one night, we know this from Qur'an 25:32 The unbelievers say, 'Why has the Koran not been sent down upon him all at once?' Even so, that We may strengthen thy heart thereby, and We have chanted it very distinctly. I believe Allah would have defended a gainst this lie and told us in the verse that it was ALL sent down all at once. But it wasn't so. I do not dispute the books preexistance.. In the 97th chapter, it begins Behold, We sent it down on the Night of Power; Unfortunately this verse alone doesn't provide details to the extent if the entire Qur'an was provided or the first revealed verses. I'm not against the idea that it all could have been revealed but if that happened Muhammad did not memorize/absorb it all in that one night. Otherwise we'll have contradiction with 11:49 Please answer my question I really want to understand you here. 17:106 and a Koran We have divided, for thee to recite it to mankind at intervals, and We have sent it down successively this verse is also pretty concrete in determining that it came in pieces. there is also 24:11 Those who came with the slander are a band of you; do not reckon it evil for you; rather it is good for you. Every man of them shall have the sin that he has earned charged to him; and whosoever of them took upon himself the greater part of it, him there awaits a mighty chastisement. We're not the Prophet and the people waiting for this verse to be revealed about Aisha? evidence seems overwhelming to indicate it was sent in pieces/revealed in peices.

Sura hud is part of Qur'an. Therefore, you cannot present a verse from the book to show me look, Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) don't have knowledge of Qur'an. That is ridiculous! So how do you understand the verse where it says, "this is news of unseen" revealed to Prophet, that he and people did not know it before the verse was revealed. What is your understanding, or tafsir if you don't have personal understanding ? Qur'an is message and guidance from Allah and is truth. The verse plainly explains Muhammad knew not the news of ghayb. And now and the rest of people know upon learning the verse. ..... if Muhammad didnt know before the verse was revealed then he could not have known before it was revealed. Otherwise a contradiction exists and the Qur'an is relegated as an invention of man and to be discarded nauzubillah. 41:42 falsehood comes not to it from before it nor from behind it; a sending down from One All-wise, All-laudable.

Is this not a contradiction to other hadith? If the Prophet had black spots of impurity in his heart , how could he have been created and born with infallibility and knowledge, before even Adam. Who knew the message/book since birth? And was a perfect being and believer before revelation? How do you reconcile this contradiction? @Cool @Muslim2010 @Logic1234

If you paid attention @Muslim2010 I said I don't believe hadith are necessary 100% must follow or else you are doomed to hell. I never said if you follow hadith you're going to hell or you will definitely be mislead. When I say I reject hadith I mean to say I do not believe they are necessary for every person to be granted Jannah. They shouldn't be put into laws and imposed onto people to follow and then give them punishment. Granted how varied everyone believes in different kinds. They shouldn't be used to govern people. They should be kept personal. So I don't understand your laughter

Sure

We very well know mushrik may change and convert. For only Allah knows if in their hearts is an awareness of Allah and they had no knowledge or little knowledge. But they were not Kuffar. Those who were presented the message with evidences to prove their shirk belief was false, relegating ther idols to mere objects of no benefit or harm to them, they did become kafir after Rejecting truth when presented it in front of their eyes. Some accepted it without rejecting. Some fought then accepted some never accepted. I'm aware that they knew who their ancestor was, Ibrahim and they believed in Allah in addition to others due to mistaken distortion and following of their forefathers. Until the message to them recognized as the reminder and some casted away the shirk belief. But I don't have knowledge of who specifically. But many mushrik did follow him whether at first or after fighting.. Many Jews and Christians whoever else recieved scripture or had knowledge of it, did accept Muhammad as the Messenger and followed him, and another group did not. Either way, the above. Stated isnt entirely relevant to me. Because the verse states whoever in their hearts is awareness of God or God fearing, and to those who beleive in Unseen, perform prayer, spend what God provides ,who beleive what was sent down to Muhammad and before Muhammad and believe in hereafter . Mushrik potentially beleive in Allah, but have associates. After they are presented with message and accept it they are not mushrik.

Who am I misguiding ? Were having discusion/debate. But never have I said "I am definitely right and this is true Islam". I've said the opposited and admitted my interpretations are my own and can be mistaken.

I've been apart of these forums for quite some time. Before I studied Sufism under a master but by now I don't beleive I can be called or be associated with sufism. My label should be updated. But I strongly Identify inner reflection and principles of akhlaq that I learned from them. I also identify with their acceptance of other Muslims into the fold of Islam.

Brother, That is not the proper translation. 7:158 Say: 'O mankind, I am the Messenger of God to you all, of Him to whom belongs the kingdom of the heavens and of the Earth. There is no God but He. He gives life, and makes to die. Believe then in God, and in His Messenger, the Prophet of the common folk, who believes in God and His words, and follow him; haply so you will be guided.' follow him whO follows God and his words which Is Qur'an. (7:158:1) qul Say, V – 2nd person masculine singular imperative verb فعل أمر (7:158:2) yāayyuhā "O VOC – prefixed vocative particle ya N – nominative noun أداة نداء اسم مرفوع (7:158:3) l-nāsu mankind! N – nominative masculine plural noun اسم مرفوع (7:158:4) innī Indeed I am ACC – accusative particle PRON – 1st person singular object pronoun حرف نصب والياء ضمير متصل في محل نصب اسم «ان» (7:158:5) rasūlu (the) Messenger N – nominative masculine noun اسم مرفوع (7:158:6) l-lahi (of) Allah PN – genitive proper noun → Allah لفظ الجلالة مجرور (7:158:7) ilaykum to you P – preposition PRON – 2nd person masculine plural object pronoun جار ومجرور (7:158:8) jamīʿan all, N – accusative masculine indefinite noun اسم منصوب (7:158:9) alladhī the One REL – masculine singular relative pronoun اسم موصول (7:158:10) lahu for Whom P – prefixed preposition lām PRON – 3rd person masculine singular personal pronoun جار ومجرور (7:158:11) mul'ku (is the) dominion N – nominative masculine noun اسم مرفوع (7:158:12) l-samāwāti (of) the heavens N – genitive feminine plural noun اسم مجرور (7:158:13) wal-arḍi and the Earth. CONJ – prefixed conjunction wa (and) N – genitive feminine noun → Earth الواو عاطفة اسم مجرور (7:158:14) lā (There is) no NEG – negative particle نافية تعمل عمل «أن» (7:158:15) ilāha God N – accusative masculine singular noun اسم منصوب (7:158:16) illā except EXP – exceptive particle أداة استثناء (7:158:17) huwa Him, PRON – 3rd person masculine singular personal pronoun ضمير منفصل (7:158:18) yuḥ'yī He gives life V – 3rd person masculine singular (form IV) imperfect verb فعل مضارع (7:158:19) wayumītu and causes death. CONJ – prefixed conjunction wa (and) V – 3rd person masculine singular (form IV) imperfect verb الواو عاطفة فعل مضارع (7:158:20) faāminū So believe REM – prefixed resumption particle V – 2nd person masculine plural (form IV) imperative verb PRON – subject pronoun الفاء استئنافية فعل أمر والواو ضمير متصل في محل رفع فاعل (7:158:21) bil-lahi in Allah P – prefixed preposition bi PN – genitive proper noun → Allah جار ومجرور (7:158:22) warasūlihi and His Messenger, CONJ – prefixed conjunction wa (and) N – genitive masculine noun PRON – 3rd person masculine singular possessive pronoun الواو عاطفة اسم مجرور والهاء ضمير متصل في محل جر بالاضافة (7:158:23) l-nabiyi the Prophet, N – genitive masculine noun اسم مجرور (7:158:24) l-umiyi the unlettered ADJ – genitive masculine singular adjective صفة مجرورة (7:158:25) alladhī the one who REL – masculine singular relative pronoun اسم موصول (7:158:26) yu'minu believes V – 3rd person masculine singular (form IV) imperfect verb فعل مضارع (7:158:27) bil-lahi in Allah P – prefixed preposition bi PN – genitive proper noun → Allah جار ومجرور (7:158:28) wakalimātihi and His Words, CONJ – prefixed conjunction wa (and) N – genitive feminine plural noun PRON – 3rd person masculine singular possessive pronoun الواو عاطفة اسم مجرور والهاء ضمير متصل في محل جر بالاضافة (7:158:29) wa-ittabiʿūhu and follow him CONJ – prefixed conjunction wa (and) V – 2nd person masculine plural (form VIII) imperative verb PRON – subject pronoun PRON – 3rd person masculine singular object pronoun الواو عاطفة فعل أمر والواو ضمير متصل في محل رفع فاعل والهاء ضمير متصل في محل نصب مفعول به (7:158:30) laʿallakum so that you may ACC – accusative particle PRON – 2nd person masculine plural object pronoun حرف نصب من اخوات «ان» والكاف ضمير متصل في محل نصب اسم «لعل» (7:158:31) tahtadūna (be) guided." V – 2nd person masculine plural (form VIII) imperfect verb PRON – subject pronoun فعل مضارع والواو ضمير متصل في محل رفع فاعل (7:159:1) wamin And among REM – prefixed resumption particle P – preposition الواو استئنافية حرف جر (7:159:2) qawmi (the) people N – genitive masculine noun اسم مجرور (7:159:3) mūsā (of) Musa PN – genitive masculine proper noun → Musa اسم علم مجرور (7:159:4) ummatun (is) a community N – nominative feminine singular indefinite noun اسم مرفوع (7:159:5) yahdūna (which) guides V – 3rd person masculine plural imperfect verb PRON – subject pronoun فعل مضارع والواو ضمير متصل في محل رفع فاعل (7:159:6) bil-ḥaqi with truth P – prefixed preposition bi N – genitive masculine noun جار ومجرور (7:159:7) wabihi and by it CONJ – prefixed conjunction wa (and) P – prefixed preposition bi PRON – 3rd person masculine singular personal pronoun الواو عاطفة جار ومجرور (7:159:8) yaʿdilūna establishes justice. V – 3rd person masculine plural imperfect verb PRON – subject pronoun فعل مضارع والواو ضمير متصل في محل رفع فاعل

It is plain and how it reads. Per verse 2:2-6 It is a Guidance are those who have awareness of God, those who believed before and after. The book is the guidance per the verse. So it is to all beleivers who beleived and whose heart is a conscious or have awareness of God. Be they in Makkah or not. Kuffar are not kuffar until the message has reached them and they know it to ve true yet reject it. Kuffar means to conceal. Before the message came to a person they are not kuffar. At least according to how I understand the verses at this time.

You know the schools of thought who interpret so called infallible hadith when they themselves were fallible? Don't even tell me within Shia school of thought your scholars unanimously agree. They don’t. Differing marjas, and even the ones who call themselves Shia split into sects based on differences of opinions. Or are you one who call themselves Sunni. The guys who... you know For them...Where It's ok that prayer variation is slightly different among each other, as long as they're following something they believe to come from the Prophet , even though they don’t think the other schools hadith justification for those different praying styles is sound..... because the main belief is close enough? Plus thousands of other hadith examples? What backwards hypocrisy. Then they give fatwas of takfirism. @Muslim2010 But the same scholars call those who use only Qur'an blasphemers? When they themselves disagree with other schools because the same hadith show them something different ? @Muslim2010 Whether you believe it or not, the only thing we have in common is we beleive in the message of Qur'an, granted through different outlets. And we don't know anything. We become hypocrites the second take another who believes in the message and relegate them to blasphemers or kafir when we ourselves may have errors in our interpretations and beliefs is when we truly become corrupted despicable people. But you go ahead and follow those scholars who would call others blasphemers and kafir. It won't stop my donations and efforts to Shia and Sunni Muslims and whoever else suffers in the world. @Muslim2010