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In the Name of God بسم الله


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Posts posted by fzilla

  1. (bismillah) (salam)

    Real Talk.

    The guy is a truly amazing speaker. And i swear i have never heard a man so intelligent & spiritual. The guy is just WoW!

    I don't know why he isnt given publicity in the U.S, seeing he is American, but please while you are alive, listen to this man speak!! Be it on Islam, Politics, History, Culture, the guy is the most intelligent Scholar i have ever heard speak.

    I currently don't have any videos of him to share, or they are too large to download. But try Youtube.com, or try Islamic Torrents, or try Zaytuna.org.

    He is a gift to Muslims from AllahÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì

    umm he is Sunni so he prolly doesnt get much buzz on these forums but yeah he is amazing. is he going to be at ICNA this weekend?

  2. However, it is Sunni scholars who have publicly pronounced - and the lay Sunni has not opposed - the apostatization of Shi'a Muslims, not the other way round. This lays your hypothesis very much open to question.


    I have referred the name of an Ahle Hadith Sunni scholar Maulana Ishaq Madni, link to whose speech about tyranny perpetrated by Umar bin Khattab on the Holy Prophet (pbuh) & his daughter (as) has been posted earlier on this forum by some discussants. I have also had opportunity to read Khilafat o Mulukiyat by Abul Aala Maududi and many books by Tahir ul Qadri, who have recounted in specific detail the tyrannies perpetrated by Muawiya bin Abu Sufian, considered by most Sunnis to be a sahabi.

    As indicated above, the knowledgable Sunnis - who know not only Sunni but Shi'a Islam - specifically acknowledge the tyranny perpetrated by the likes of Umar bin Khattab and Muawiya bin Abu Sufian. The 'inherited' ones lack knowledge about Sunni Islam - what to talk of Shi'a - to enter any meaningful dialogue.


    how does the Sunni scholars who announced Shias as kafir defeat my theory that most Sunnis grow up learning about Islam but not much about Shias.

    the knowledgable Sunnis who know both Sunni and Shia Islam....right because there are what 2-3 of these scholars? u find one whos views fall into urs and these men equal all of those Sunni scholars who know Shia Islam as well.

  3. Like you, I'm not here to argue or discuss this with you or for that matter any Sunni about the character of some sahabas. Been there and done that.

    But concerning the bold part, is rejecting the caliphs tantamount to kufr or being called Rafedis?

    I thought the Sunni fundamentals were Tawheed and Nabuwwah not Caliphate and rejecting Tawheed and Nabuwwah is kufr.

    I had even started a thread on this topic but as usual got very less Sunni replies. [i think only one Sunni had replied] ;)

    Also, when you love someone; you are bound to hate his enemies. Just as if you love Allah, you hate Shaytan; if you love the Prophet (s), you hate Abu Lahab and Abu Jahl. Abu Bakr and Hazrat Fatema (sa) could not have been right at the same time.

    being rafedies means rejecting the caliphs...doesnt mean kafir. if anything the scholars who consider shia kafir usually cite the belief that the Imams of the Shia are held to be superior to all the Prophets(peace be upon them) except for the very last Prophet (pbuh). im not sure where not believing in the caliphs or the Sahaba places you but as far as I know its not kufr, but thats only according to my local Imam whos says the Shia who believe such and such about the Sahaba are deviated but not kafir.

    2ndly ive heard it in this thread and other threads here...that the Sunnis dont know thier own religion....well first of all Sunnis are not brought up the same as Shias. whereas Shias are brought up with the knowledge of why they arent Sunni, why they are a different sect, or the minority (depending on the region)...basically the average shia is brought up knowing all the differences and is brought up knowing the Sunni stance on many incidents. the average Sunni isnt introduced to the Shia or thier history or versions of history till they meet Shia on thier own or whatever...down the road. im not saying thats all the shia learn but im saying in this regard when a Shia comes in contact with a Sunni and might debate...the Shia knows 10 times more already for thier side. and u can think what u want of it but it isnt because the Sunnis wish to hide anything or that we dont have our own answers all the Shia claims but simly its fruitless....its just a circle of arguing, debating, and as happened with me (after months of arguing and debating) the heart becomes cold...esp after hearing some of what the Shia say about the Sahaba. if u really wanna see Sunnis who know thier religion and can answer all the questions the Shia have then go to a Sunni site or Sunni scholars..not regular Sunni members who might frequent this site.

    and your claim that u have argued with Sunnis and presented proofs and they still dont listen...well then ur going about it wrong....unless ur expecting to "win" or "convert" ur always going to lose. if anything u can make the Sunni question somethings and go find answers to it. but face it the sunnis u argue with can say the same thing..."we showed that Shia all these proofs... and he wouldnt listen to logic"....thats why these debates are pointless. u are who u are...born shia then ur most likely going to remain and same with a sunni.

  4. Incorrect. The righteous companions are extremely loved by the Shi'a.

    Wa Salaam,


    then i would at least hope to see them sometimes mentioned and discussed....cause last i remember it numbered to 7? and those only cause they either served under Hazrat Ali or sided with him.

    Salam alykum

    We believe that the so-called Sahaba are not infallible. That is, they can err. Given the latter, and the narrations in the SUNNI books that state that Umar was not as straight as everyone thought, and that Khalid ibin Al-waleed was a fornicator (Zani) and and and..., we conclude that some of the Sahabah deserve to be cursed day and night.

    Yes. The shias can go low. However, they can never sink as low as your caliphs, may Allah curse them, including the first, the second and the third.

    We also believe that the first, second and third (may Allah curse them) are among Allah's ayat. Just like Satan, the Pharaoh, and all other degenerates through out history, were Allah's ayat.

    Oh yes. Sunnis, like shia, believe in the 12 imam theory. Their only problem is that their 12 imams are either homosexuals, or drunkards, or killers, or fornicators, or without "fathers" . So, over the course of time, they had to come up with a lot of BS to feed their followers so that their followers, like yourself, will praise a fornicator, or a killer, or a homosexual.

    Did you know that the term Sahaba also includes the Satan of the prophet? There is a "shaytaan" assigned to each man. Even the prophet had one. Therefore, he was a "sahabi" as well. The donkey that the prophet rode is also considered a sahabi, because it accompanied the prophet. The only difference between the Shias and the sunnis is that the Sunnies chose to follow the donkeys, while the shias chose to follow those worthy of being followed.

    Wa salam

    case in point.

    thank u for proving my point. said as only a shia can.

  5. Yeah! pious men who were both wrong and right at the same time.

    Loving the companions is not a part of aqeedah neither it is there in the Qur'an that it is obligatory to love the Prophet (s)'s companions "so much" that it becomes incumbent on you all to call us kafirs or "Rafedis" [surprisingly loving the Prophet (s)'s kinsfolk is very much mentioned in the Qur'an and obligatory upon all the Muslims].

    im not here to discuss the characters of the Sahaba with you or anyone on this site. been there and done that. used to be a regular on the shia sunni section on this forum. you guys can believe anything u want about the sahaba (ra) from how evil power hungry they were to thier sexual orientation or if they were alcoholics....honestly at this point i dont know how much lower some shias can go but after the stuff ive seen on this forum i wouldnt be surprised.

    believing in the Sahaba is not part of the religion but we obviously hold the Sahaba very high, esp the 3 the shias hate, and hold them to be part of the ayat Allah swt revealed for those under the tree. and dont tell us about loving the Prophet's family as we do, we remember them in our prayers daily and to us the family is much bigger than the select family shias hold high. again im not here to discuss who is in or not in but just because we dont believe in the 12 imam theory doesnt mean sunnis dont believe in, love , or praise the family. and anyway a lot of the ahlul bayt and sahaba overlap and the term sahaba is all inclusive and covers the Prophet's (pbuh) family.

    i have never ever called shias kafir and while some sunnis do, majority dont even if they hold shias to be deviated from the right path. and doesnt rafidi mean rejector? and do u not reject the first 3 caliphs and sahaba overall?

    anyway im not here to argue any of this...just clearing some points about what Sunnis believe, and to make it clear that even the more misinformed and biased sunni knows this much that the shia curse and hate the Sahaba.

  6. (bismillah)


    History has recorded tyrannical acts of some of those our Sunni brethren define as sahaba. And history has not been written by Shi'as.

    If distancing ourselves from these tyrants, verbally and practically in the manner taught by Islam, results in our Sunni brethren's inability to have other discussions with us, that inability is an issue for those brethren to address.

    We Shi'as are open to discussion even with those accursed persons who apostatize us and kill us - an act that has sadly not found condemnation from Sunni populace in general.

    thats the shia view. we do not hold our history to show these men as evil men who had nothing but hate in them or whatever else people claim about them...to the extent of thier sexuality as ive seen countless times on this forum. we see them as pious men and thats with the history which u claim we have and ignore.

    that wasnt the point anyway. my whole point was just cause shias dont curse the Sahaba (ra) in front of doesnt mean we dont know about it...in fact its one of the main things even the most misinformed Sunni will know about the Shia...that they curse those who we love so much, so i dont get this notion of "dont curse them in front of Sunnis" as if it hides anything.

    i rather see more debates discussing the theory behind Imamate, because as much as a Sunni believe the Shia are wrong in thier view of the Sahaba (ra) the real difference in our aqeedahs lies in the pillar of Shiism in Imamate.

  7. as a sunni wether u say it front of my face or behind my back the fact that shias curse the Sahaba (ra) is extremely upsetting. im not saying what u should do or not do, thats up to u guys but just cause u dont do it in front of our faces doesnt mean we dont know its done.

    2ndly i personally i think it takes away from the true debate between the sects, what seperates in aqeedah and thats the shie belief in 12 imams ordained by Allah swt. compared to who the shia think was evil, the concept of imamate is rarely a discussed.

  8. From the Official Website of Ayatullah Khamenei

    To Be a Sayyid

    Q: My mother is a Sayyidah. Do I qualify as a Sayyid? What is the difference between a Sayyid from the father's side and that from the mother's side?

    A: Although, descendants of The Holy Prophet through their mother also considered as his descendants, the criterion for being a Sayyid - as far as Shar'i rulings are concerned - is paternal relationship.


    First part tells me that a person whose mother is a sayyedah is also a sayyed, and the other part tells me he is not...combining both tells me that Sayyeds are exception to this Shar'i rule. It means my mother is a sayyed, though paternally she is a descendant of Abu Bakar. btw, it is the first time I've heard this...

    Where I'm wrong?

    Please help....

    if u dont mind me asking how did u trace ur lineage back to Hazrat Abu Bakr (ra)? i didnt know ppl kept track of that.

  9. maybe if the shia werent too busy calling everyone nasibi, yazidi, wahabi, or whatever else comes to the tongue, esp with labels, there wouldnt be so much hostility. i have seen many a sunni come to this site and all of a sudden just being sunni made them nasibi to some posters.

    ps: i eagerly await someone calling me one of the above

  10. To mollify the authorities, Ashura organizers say they have made sure that Shiites chant slogans about the Prophet Mohammed as well as Hussein and his father Ali.

    "Since the seventh day we've also been saying 'I answer to you, Mohammed!' " Adel said. Ashura reaches its climax on Thursday, the 10th day of the Islamic month of Muharram.

    so otherwise the Prophet (pbuh) is not mentioned and the only reason they mentioned him was to appease the officials?

  11. explain please why barelevis declare deobandis and wahabis as shaytan's and dog's of hell. explain why wahabis declare barelvis as mushrikun and kuffar.


    if u have to keep in mind that wahabis are not sunnis or not considered sunnis by sunnis, instead they are mislead. 2ndly a group hating another doesnt make it a sect. go to any mosque sadly and u will have uncles fighting, ppl disagreeing but no matter how much barelvis hate deobands and vice versa, the princicples of islam for both are identical. u can call them sects by ur definition but they arent considered sects cause they share the same islamic principles.

  12. Brother , they are ton's of sect's inside so called ahl-sunna ,who hate and fight each other.everybody claim to be the true ahl sunna and say to the other's that they are deviated. you know it better than me , come on. What about deobandi and barelvi fitnah ? what about  salafi and sufi fitnah ? the fighting's between sufi turuq's ? Come on ,come on.In Pakistan maybe they are specialist in fighting and cursing each other.And all together then curse the shia's. Balkan Hanafi's have nothing to do with subcontinent hanafi's. The hanafi's in the subcontinent are sadly puritan zelot's ,purdah fanatic's and sectarian enthusiast's. Ottoman hanafi tradion is more tollerant then subcontinent hanafi's.Both of them have few to do we real Imam Abu Hanifa.They follow middle age scholar's who compiled fatawa book's and study them blindly.I'm hanafi ,for me ,as my techer's say to me ,hanafi madhab is the more lenient and more liberal of all madhab's.In our balkan tradition. Even the shia's are different . Iranian shia are very enlightened(most of them ,not all) ,maybe in other countries they are more sectarian. I don't know.What i like to say is that there is no unique and united ahl-sunna.there are big theoric difference's inside ,not only in fiqh.


    then that depends on ur definition of sects. i know all the hate all the lil groups carry foe each other, but they do not differ on anything but matters of fiqh and applications of it. the fundamentals remain the same across the board. the way i always defined it, and maybe im wrong, is that the sect is formed is when u differ on matters of the principles of faith. for example Shiism is a sect seperate from Sunnism because of the belief of Imamate as a pillar of Islam, not because there is fighting between Sunnis and Shias and they hate who we love or we call them names.

  13. i'm croat.our muslim's are very tollerant. we have no problem's with any islamic school.we accept all, but  keep our hanafi-ottoman tradition ,because it is our heritage. when i spoke to one of our young hodza (imam) about the muawiya question ,he say that Imam Ali (a.s) was right and muawiya wrong and fasiq and most probaly a munafiq.about mutah he say's that Imam Abu Hanifa choose to declare it haram for public safety of the masses ,as Omar to so ,for the same reason.but he don't offend me because i defend mutah as right ,he only smile to me and say : "Hassan,the iranian people are gentlemen so they can enjoy some flower more than arab sunni's.." Our local ulama don't accept the takfir agains't the shia's.this concet of takfir is new one and it was imported in the balkan's in the last year's of the 90's from saudi arabia.I'm not shia ,i'm not supporter of iranian revolution.But in these day's i finish to read the 550 page book of Imam Khomeini : "Adabus Salat".This text is a rare treasure of spiritual knowledge ,marifa and haqiqa. WOW !!! this is real sufism ,not pir worshipping o mass tariqa sufism.Irfan.After reading this book I change my name from Hassan Omar to Hassan Zaynul Abiden.Excuse my bad english.


    then ur hanafi?

    and u mentioned 100s of sects? matters of opinions on fiqh make not a sect.

  14. (salam)

    The example of Hazrat Owais Qarni has already been provided. It was more extreme than cutting oneself.

    I have a question for the Muslims who see 'cutting' as an extreme act which gives a bad name to Islam:

    Why is it that when a shia cuts himself for the love of Hussain and for the sake of Allah, it is a haram act which gives a bad name to Islam. But when Hazrat Ibrahim a.s decided to slaughter his son for the love and sake of Allah, it is not seen as an extreme act and a bad name to Islam ?



    are u seriously comparing the command of Allah swt to his Prophet Abraham (pbuh) to scarifice his son (pbuh) to Shias mourning for Hazrat Hussein? are u comparing a command from Allah to what Shias do? im all for recognizing and learning from what happened at this massacre/battle but what the Shias do doesnt sit well with me either, esp the beatings as it proves absolutely nothing. seriously its both funny and sad to compare Prophet Abraham's (pbuh) sacrifice/test from Allah SWT to shias mourning practices of Hazrat Hussein.

    2ndly i always hear from Shias the defense that so and so mourned when thier son/daughter or close loved one past away. i even heard one example of Hazrat Aisha crying and i ask always over and over...how can ppl compare the natural overflow of emotion felt by someone when the lose someone AT THE VERY MOMENT OF THE EVENT to shias doing this 1400 yrs after the fact on an annual basis. all the examples brought up tell us of the emotion and pain felt at that moment by those ppl, and no where does it say they did it yr after yr and made it in a festival of tears as such.

    there is nothing wrong with mourning or even tearing if it comes naturally when one hears of the tragedy but honestly most of it seems mechanical..."oh im supposed to cry now so let me cry....." and next u know comes matam (the strict stuff not the light beating of the chest). i doubt Hazrat Hussein would have liked to know that while he died to preserve the very principles of Islam he would not dare compromise, his sacrifice itself turned into an institutionalized religious event of sorts. i doubt he would have wanted that too happen. sadly even on this site i see more ppl passionate and up in roar about muharam/ashura than for the very EIDs that Hazrat Hussein fought for, the very DAYS which the Prophet (pbuh) prescribed to us as our days.

    and ive asked my shia friends this and they always go "it seems like it but we pay equal attention and respect to all the religious days" but they never get it (or maybe im the one confused) that while this was a tragedy...u cant turn a tragedy into a institutionalized religious day....to the point i know some shias who care more for muharam then for eid. they would rather take days of from school to go participate in ashura events than take off for eid. is that what Hazrat Hussein sacrificed for?

  15. I was censured because i don't like muawiya. The barelvi sufi muslim's forbid me to say my opinion.i hate censorship.My logic was based on the hadith that who make war agains't hazreti imam Ali(r.a) is making war against the Prophet(s.a.s).Difference in fiqh are not a justification to kill ten's of thousand's of muslim's.Muawiya put his satanic son on power and this perverted son ,yazid, killed the children of Rasulullah(s.a.s) , raped the girl's of medina and make mass killing's of muslim's in the Holy city of Mecca.They censured my word's the barelevi sufi's and nobody can even answer me because my question was eliminated.Are this people crazy ? they boast that they love Rasulullah(s.a.s) and they don't defend his Ahl-Bayt (a.s). Who are this barelvi pakistani's. they are sunni sufi's but are very intollerant and sectarian ,they tread women in the same fashion as do taliban. please help me.I am right with be angry with those people ?


    depends on what u posted and how and where. u cant generalize. u know sunnis respect muawiya as a sahabi so if u went in guns blazing disrespecting him ur not going to be met with sane logical rational responses. 2ndly barelvi masjids that i have been to even have narays for Hazrat Ali so again u cant generalize and say they do this or that. treat women in the same fashion? based on what?

  16. oh then how dare you sunni's say things about shia's like

    'ooh they said Angel Jibraeel made a mistake and made Prophet Mohammed  (pbuh) the prophet instead of Imam Ali  (as) '

    and some of you even believe that we say Imam Ali  (as)  is God


    did i say anything like that? my point was that list posted is something some misled sunni ppl can reproduce themselves against the shia. nothing was backed up in that list and the poster starts of with saying lets focus on the similarities and then proceeds to lie about sunnis.

    2ndly the thread was about shia beliefs, not made up sunni beliefs.

  17. (salam)

    There is a difference among  'Maut' ,  'Halakat'  &  'Shahadat'. Mola Hussain a.s is not dead.

    Ummul Momineen Ayesha slapped her face ( continuously ) on the death of the Prophet p.b.u.H.



    u are arguing the grief felt at the moment of losing a loved one justifys matam 1400 yrs later? cause many ppl "lose it" when they lose a loved one, but they dont make it a annual tradition. 2ndly i too find that explanation for ya Ali madad or ya Hussein madad to be very flimsy? comparing it to a doctor? give me a break. if you really wanna go down that road why not call on our Prophet (pbuh) who was the closest of all? but then i hear ppl say well since Hazrat Ali was closest to the Prophet (pbuh)......u can continue that game forever.

    and s4ever ur implying that Hazrat Hussein won and the Sunnis lost? jealous of shias? thats a rather childish way to put it. we dont agree with ur practices doesnt mean we are jealous. if that so, and since shias claim sunnis forged all that goes against shia beliefs, couldnt we have conveniently written out all the high praise for Hazrat Ali and his sons and the AhlulBayt overall? and recognizing leaders? i find the shias mostly forgetting about our Prophet (pbuh) in favor of Hazrat Ali and his lineage.

  18. I agree that he is misguided. From his perspective, he must sit on the fence. He can neither side with Imam Husayn nor with his Imam Yazid, because as far as he is concerned, Allah SW has commanded his to follow the khulafaa al raashidoon and Allah SW has commanded him also to follow Ahlul Bayt AS. So what does he do? Take the best of both worlds. (Which is strange that Allah SW would allow two men to be His representatives on earth, yet they go to war with each other??? If my god did that I'd say he was incompetent.)

    I give him credit that he recognises the false reports about Aashooraa being a happy day. But unfortunately he cuts the truth short because he does not want his other Imam Yazid to be cursed on Aashooraa either (because Yazid ibn Mu3awiya is his Imam too).


    with his imam yazid? what in the world are u talking about? when did he say that was his Imam also? he is not sitting on the fence, rather he is telling it how sunnis believe it. we dont think its a day to celebrate, but we also dont believe in the ashura practices (cultural or institutionalized) by the shias.

    i think that is a moderate sunni view, that while its not a day of celebration it is a day of ibadat and one should remember the battle and what happened but not do as the shia do on the day.

  19. (bismillah)


    One should focus on similarities and not differences. However since you have asked let me write a few differences b/w Shia and Sunni.

    -Sunni believe that they can see Allah (AstaghfarAllah). Shia believe that Allah is not something that we could ever see.

    -Sunni believe that Allah has a body and body parts legs, face and so on(AstaghfarAllah). Shia believe that Allah has no body or body parts.

    -Shia believe that religion was completed on the Prophet  (pbuh) and no haram can be made halal after him, and no halal can be made haram after him. Sunni accept innovations introduced in Islam years after Prophet  (pbuh) passed away.

    -Shia believe that Quran is complete. Whatever ayats were reveiled on the Prophet  (pbuh) they are present in the Quran today. Sunnis believe that some ayats were reveiled but forgotten and thus not present in Quran today.

    -Sunnis beleive that not everything said by Prophet  (pbuh) was from God. Somethings were his own openion. Shia believe that whatever the Prophet  (pbuh) said or did was from Allah.



    ur taking the views of the wahabi and other misled ppl who call themselves Sunni. no sunni believes the quran in not complete, and last i heard that was the belief of some shia subsects. if ur going to say things like that at least back it up. and no sunni believes in turning what was haram into halal. these are pure lies which u post and then u dare have the audacity to say to focus on the similarities? ur list sounds mostly a list i can reproduce by some sunnis who say the same about shias. bidah, incomplete quran, seeing Ali in the moon, and all other stuff.

  20. Salaam

    Tomorrow I am giving a presentation about Ashura to a bunch of wahabbis. Can someone please give me a source that lists the names of some of the Sahabas of the Prophet who were present at Karbala? (Preferably Sahabas who were old in age by the time of the Battle of Karbala.) Would greatly appreciate it. :Hijabi:


    Take care, ma'Salaama



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