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In the Name of God بسم الله

Elihu

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  1. Like
    Elihu got a reaction from AbdusSibtayn in Low tolerance towards ignorants.   
    There are people that find it easier to trust what they are told no matter who is telling it. They are right to some degree. As a Christian, I meet plenty of people who are ignorant of the Bible and creeds, but that is not so bad. I am willing to try and explain things to them. However, the problem is that many do not care to have you explain anything to them, as they believe they already know. Those people are the ones that can make me frustrated at times, as I know they will continue to try and spread their ignorance, but beyond frustration it makes me feel dejected. I believe it is the understanding of Muslims that it is up to Allah to soften their hearts (Surah Al-Baqarah, verses 6, 7). In Christianity, we hold a similar view, but we also adhere to what Jesus said  in Matthew 28:19, which reads:
    "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit," (NIV)
    I try and get people out of their ignorance, even if they are ignorant of something I am not affiliated with. I have had to correct many non-Muslims regarding Islam and I have had to correct protestants regarding Catholicism. Ignorance is never appropriate, which is what makes me hold my tongue when it comes to topics I do not fully understand.
    In regard to what you said about ignorance of Islam, I agree. Many people lack any genuine understanding of Islamic development and history. In the west, groups like ISIL, the Taliban, etc. are blasted on the media. The media does rightly portray them as radicalized Muslims, but when people only see radicalized Muslims, it is not hard for them to lose track of real Muslims. Another problem is the west's involvement in the middle east. People perceive Muslims as war mongering individuals who only want to create chaos and take US military servicemen's lives. This, once again, is in part to them media's reporting.
    The best way to combat ignorance is to simply address it as you see it. Maybe we can plant a seed in those ignorant individuals in hopes that it will blossom into a meaningful understanding. I plead with you not to be low in tolerance or lose your temper with people who match the description you gave. They have existed for centuries and will continue to exist, unfortunately.
    God bless.
  2. Like
    Elihu got a reaction from Ali.Isa in Studying Shia Islam   
    Thank you. Is this the text you are speaking of?
    http://duas.mobi/treatise
     
    Also, is this text considered authoritative?
  3. Like
    Elihu got a reaction from Ali.Isa in Studying Shia Islam   
    I am a nontrinitarian non-denominational Christian who is looking to study Islam. I am currently reading out of the Qur'an and have begun reading out of a publication entitled Nahjul Balagha, which I gather is a collection of sermons and letters by Imam Ali. In case it is important, I am using an edition of the text translated by Sayed Ali Reza. I have started on the first sermon, which is entitled as "The Creation of Earth and Sky and the Birth of Adam." Is this an authoritative text? Is it regarded as infallible? If not, then I will not cause myself to stumble on interpreting it. If so, then I will do my best.

    Do my studies seem good so far? Are there any other texts I should read before reading Nahjul Balagha? I would also appreciate any recommendations one may have in regard to a good commentary on the Qur'an. I am not terribly familiar with any Islamic scholars, so I would not want to choose a commentary by a "heretic" or something.

    Thanks for any input. God bless.
  4. Like
    Elihu got a reaction from LeftCoastMom in Low tolerance towards ignorants.   
    I have to disagree here. There are plenty of educated Christians.
  5. Like
    Elihu got a reaction from DownToEarth in Low tolerance towards ignorants.   
    There are people that find it easier to trust what they are told no matter who is telling it. They are right to some degree. As a Christian, I meet plenty of people who are ignorant of the Bible and creeds, but that is not so bad. I am willing to try and explain things to them. However, the problem is that many do not care to have you explain anything to them, as they believe they already know. Those people are the ones that can make me frustrated at times, as I know they will continue to try and spread their ignorance, but beyond frustration it makes me feel dejected. I believe it is the understanding of Muslims that it is up to Allah to soften their hearts (Surah Al-Baqarah, verses 6, 7). In Christianity, we hold a similar view, but we also adhere to what Jesus said  in Matthew 28:19, which reads:
    "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit," (NIV)
    I try and get people out of their ignorance, even if they are ignorant of something I am not affiliated with. I have had to correct many non-Muslims regarding Islam and I have had to correct protestants regarding Catholicism. Ignorance is never appropriate, which is what makes me hold my tongue when it comes to topics I do not fully understand.
    In regard to what you said about ignorance of Islam, I agree. Many people lack any genuine understanding of Islamic development and history. In the west, groups like ISIL, the Taliban, etc. are blasted on the media. The media does rightly portray them as radicalized Muslims, but when people only see radicalized Muslims, it is not hard for them to lose track of real Muslims. Another problem is the west's involvement in the middle east. People perceive Muslims as war mongering individuals who only want to create chaos and take US military servicemen's lives. This, once again, is in part to them media's reporting.
    The best way to combat ignorance is to simply address it as you see it. Maybe we can plant a seed in those ignorant individuals in hopes that it will blossom into a meaningful understanding. I plead with you not to be low in tolerance or lose your temper with people who match the description you gave. They have existed for centuries and will continue to exist, unfortunately.
    God bless.
  6. Like
    Elihu got a reaction from Son of Placid in How do Muslims View the Atonement   
    Indeed, I would be considered a heretic by most modern Christians. We will just have to see about joining the club.
  7. Like
    Elihu reacted to Qa'im in The punishment for apostasy   
    To properly deal with this question we have to understand the evolution of identity. 1400 years ago, there was no idea of a nation-state. If you were a Muslim, you were a citizen of the Islamic nation. Islam was the social fabric that became the foundation of ethics, law, economics, fashion, art, and communal relations. Islam was central to society, much more than the Constitution or the Bible was to America. In the United States, one who commits treason and betrays America is subject to the death penalty. Similarly, Islamic apostasy laws in essence are not to take the sword to all who blaspheme or have shortcomings in religion, but to those who are seen as combatants.
    Women, children, the mentally ill, and non-Muslims are not subject to execution, no matter what they say about Islam. This punishment does not apply to them whatsoever.
    As for mature sane men, who were usually military conscripts, one is only considered an apostate if he publicly condemns or fundamentally changes Islam. Once a public claim is made, it is investigated and he is asked to repent. He is separated from his wife, his property is divided up between his family, and he is given three days to repent. If he does not repent, he is killed on the fourth day.
    Muslims who sin are not considered apostates - even if they don't pray, and commit all sins in private. Muslims of different schools are similarly not considered apostates. Even private apostates are not to be touched - only those who publicly renounce Islam and do not repent, because they advertise disobedience to God in His own society.
    The Quran makes clear that faith is a personal choice, and so the apostasy laws are not about your personal faith, it is about bringing sin in the public sphere. It is similar with other crimes - people can fornicate and commit adultery, but once it becomes a public matter (i.e. 4 or more witnesses), it becomes a criminal offense against society as a whole. So an Islamic system does not allow public atheists, or claimants to prophethood, because they would be working against the Islamic project and waging ideological warfare.
    That being said, I don't think Prophet Muhammad (s) actually punished apostates. I know that Imam `Ali (as) executed a band of people that called him God incarnate after he asked them to repent. Some have said that this law of apostasy can only be carried out by one of the 12 Imams, because they are infallible and would know what it is in the heart of a person. Most Muslim countries do not have apostasy laws, and many scholars would not implement apostasy laws in modern nation states, because it is a law designed for Islamic societies. If a society chooses to make Islam the law of the land, then hypothetically they could bring back this law, but only enact by the strict regulations mentioned above.
  8. Like
    Elihu got a reaction from Enlightened Follower in The punishment for apostasy   
    "Apostasy is punishable by death if you rebel against the religion, trying to turn people away. (Alot support this one)"
    If I may try and follow up on this, can you provide some examples? Let's say someone leaves Islam and becomes a Christian missionary? Should they be punished with death?
  9. Like
    Elihu got a reaction from Abu Nur in Studying Shia Islam   
    Alright, I will stick with the Qur'an. I appreciate all the help. God bless.
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