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In the Name of God بسم الله

Retribution

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  1. If you thought that I believe that God created Himself, you have misunderstood. I believe that He decreed for things to be the way they should be and they are the way they should be because He willed for them to be. He did not start at a condition for that would imply that He had a beginning. His name being The First is due to Him always being before any first of the creation due to His eternity. As for if it was for our benefit, I believe that His mercy is for our benefit because He is the Most Beneficent who benefits from nothing, for He is greater than benefiting or relying on His creation in anything. His creation benefits from Him and they benefit him not and He relies on nothing, all things rely on Him. And this goes for our worship as well, He orders us to worship Him that we may benefit from Him. What is justice is what God has decreed to be. The goodness out there that God agrees with is the one that He says is good due to Him being its maker and having all knowledge of it. I believe that the Prophet (S) says nothing out of His desire and He is a revelation that is revealed as God had revealed through the Qur'an in 53:3 and the Imams are immaculate and inform us of what God wills for us to be informed with. I do not separate them from the Qur'an and what I can authenticate to be from them, I believe in it. I refer to them as to whether God is against us causing suffering to animals or not. I have a list of traditions I can share with you, if you're not willing to research for yourself but these are two of them by the Prophet himself according to Nahj al-Fasahah: Verily, the Exalted God created one hundred sets of mercy the day he created the heavens and earth, every one of which covering the distance between the earth and sky, and placed one of them on the earth for mothers to be kind to their children and for wild animals and birds to be used to each other. He has kept ninety-nine sets of mercy for the Day of Judgement to be completed by the mentioned one. Whoever unjustly kills an animal, a bird and so on will be called to account by God in the Day of Judgment. The second narration clearly shows that God is against injustice done to animals. As for as to why God has created the ecosystem in the way it is out there is what this thread was opened for and I hope we can reach a satisfying conclusion with. The verse turned out to be a narration I had mixed with some Qur'anic verses. May Allah (S) forgive me and thank you for mentioning this. I don't deny that they were created mainly for our benefit as pointed out by the Qur'anic verse and another one I've read but what I believe is that it wasn't entirely completely just for our benefit but it was also for their benefit as well due to to his beneficence. Here is where I disagree with you with. You seem to imply that the reasons are always exactly the same whereas I believe the reasons are different. While the plants have their reasons as to why they are not be wasted, when it comes to the judgment of the animals, the obvious difference in their condition from the plants should also taken into account. No and neither do we. You see, that's one of the things that I find God to be worthy of worship for. He can do whatever He wills and yet I believe He does what is right, even if my intellect is to feeble to comprehend it. He has no obligation towards His creation, yet He still does what is right. That's one of the things that should make one admire Him for. What disturbs me is when someone tells me to believe that God is doing evil because He has the right to. What I believe is that God has no obligations yet still does what is good.
  2. I agree to disagree. I believe the reasons that God (S) attributed to Himself as being the Most Just and the Most Merciful was because it was of His wisdom that He found it to be of what was necessary if He was to create such a creation in such a condition and so far there is no proof of God believing that His creation are like pots, neither have I found it in the Qur'an nor have I found it taught by the Prophet (S) and the Ahlul Bayt (A). Rather what I've found is that among His names are the Most Just, the Most Merciful, the Most Beneficent, the Most Compassionate and the Most Loving. These names are proofs that it was from His wisdom that He found it to be necessary to have such attributes for His creation. And until you provide authentic proof from my religion against me, I will not believe otherwise. The reason I said that we can't go around torturing and killing animals was not because I had not known that He had not allowed us to, it was because I had known and I wanted to point towards the reason why. There is no reason I can find other than that it is due to Him being against animal suffering and torture and not just because whether we had partaken their creation or not, He doesn't make it illegitimate for such a low reason. Think about it again, why can't you apply that ideology to the trees? He created them yet He still hasn't revealed a verse of being merciful to them as He had revealed a verse to be merciful to the animals, is it because they are not His creations and they are ours this time? Can you apply your theory that we can't go cutting any single branch from a tree or uproot any plant because they are God's creation? There is a difference between an animal and a plant, let alone an animal and a pot and I think God is Omniscient over not knowing such common sense of what He made known to mankind. You say He gave them rights, isn't it because of their condition being different than that of the plants? And I'm sorry but God has called Himself a Judge and the Most Just One multiple times in the Qur'an and ordered His prophets, messengers and guides to emphasize upon that. You see it as being absurd but I see it as being of the utmost necessity of what God had decreed. We have the famous tradition where when God had completed His creation, He wrote upon His throne, "My Mercy has overcome My Wrath" and it's one we should keep remembering whenever we return to Him in repentance. You can continue believing that it's due to my human arrogance that I am disturbed by such a view of God and I'll continue knowing that it is only because it disturbs my image of the justice and mercy of God. I believe that God only does what is necessary and He does not play around with pots. And We have not created the heaven and the earth in play. [Qur'an 21:16] He decreed it necessary that His mercy embraces all things. My Mercy encompasses all things. [Qur'an 7:156]
  3. You can't compare animal suffering and death to pots being broken. Shall we go around and start torturing and killing animals because they're nothing but pots being broken? Surely God is better knowing and sympathetic of their condition and sensations than this. Just because He created them, it doesn't mean He should be a sadist regardless of whether He has the right to.
  4. This has been posted in the forum before, verify its authenticity and such. Sudayr says: I, together with Salama ibn Kuhayl ... went to the presence of Abu Ja'far (Imam al-Baqir) while the Imam's brother, Zayd ibn Ali, was with him. Those who were with me told the Imam that we love Ali, Hasan, Husain and hate their enemies. The Imam replied: True. They continued: We love Abu Bakr and Umar and hate their enemies. Hearing this, Zayd told them: Do you hate Fatima? You cut off (batartum: بترتم) our affair. May Allah cut you! Since then they were called Batriyyah. [Rijal by Kashshi, p. 236] [bihar al-Anwar, vol. 37, p. 31]
  5. I found some pictures of him which are supposed to be recent but I could not find the name yet:
  6. I've seen an Iranian politician in some pictures, I don't know what his position is or who he is but I'd like to know He looks like Stellan John Skarsgård: When I find a pic of him, I'll post it and if I know who he is I'll let you know
  7. As far as I'm concerned, it's not hypothetical As for the second question, the premise of the issue at hand is based on the proposition of Islam that one who is not on the straight path is misguided Of the facts that ascertain to this is dying without knowing the Imam of your time is dying the death of ignorance.
  8. The person may have forgotten what they learned was right and wrong from the straight path they had found Does that make them free from judgment? According to Islam, we are also judged for our actions which are parts of our deeds So if they tread the path of evil from now, they must be judged based on what they have gathered from when they woke up I want to know how they are judged for the actions they perform with the free-will they possess after the Amnesia has occurred
  9. Thank you for sharing your opinion There are different types of Amnesia The ones that concern me are those that make the person lose what he has learned from Islam and gets a new book to start what could be viewed as a second life By evil I mean they have lost their memory of who they believed was their Lord, what they believed as being right and what they believed as being wrong and when it was time for them to choose things again for this second time, they have chosen a path other than a straight path. That person is conscious and is aware of their actions and has not lost their free will. They have simply begun a new life which might turn out to be with the same people they used to live with.
  10. Salam and welcome to ShiaChat. Your topic was moved here: http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235032561-amnesia/

  11. I have been thinking about this for a while now I wonder if a person that was a good believer, does good deeds and such would be afflicted with an Amnesia Let's say that person becomes evil after that Amnesia and dies in that state What would happen to that person? If you know the answer from an authentic Islamic source please share it If you don't but want to still share your own opinion on how you feel regarding this issue, you can share
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