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LeftCoastMom

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LeftCoastMom last won the day on October 19 2017

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About LeftCoastMom

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    LeftCoastMom

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  1. How are you LCM?  I hope you are well and in good health.

    I don't know if we will be able to see you before Christmas.

    I just wanted to wish you and your family a Merry Christmas.

    God bless Zayn, his parents, and grandparents.  :)

     

  2. Sorry to all those of you with whom I am having some fascinating conversations. Unfortunately,I was called away because my nephew , 20, was hit by a drunk driver. ( People, if you drink, please don't drive!!!! Or just stop drinking. This is not the first, second, or even the third of my relatives who has been injured by people driving under the influence. STOP IT! ) He will, thank God, likely recover with no permanent disabilities, which is a small miracle in itself considering how he was plowed into , but he is in a lot of pain and healing will take awhile. He will have a challenging autumn and winter. So I'm busy for a bit taking over some family tasks so his parents can focus on him. Thanks for your prayers. Talk to you again soon.
  3. Our grandparents had to get off and walk in the mud if white people came down the sidewalk. Kids were educated in schools separate from the local white kids and not even issued grades or graduation certificates for their work. My husband's grandmother died in childbirth due to lack of adequate medical access that any white woman could easily get. All of 24 years old. Just a few of the reasons why this is personal to me.
  4. ^ Black people and other people of color in this country got tired of having to go out of town or to another county to get served if restaurants in the whole city or county refused to serve them. They got tired of bleeding to death because the local hospital would take only whites and the one admitting blacks or people of color was too far away. They got tired of going to separate substandard schools. They got tired of not being able to use the bathroom. They got tired of not being allowed to be in certain parts of town ever or during certain times. (I suspect Muslims would get equally tired of nonsense like this. )They did sit-ins, protests, etc, to get the Civil Rights Act passed. That's why the laws. " The other bakery" often isn't there.
  5. I personally don't want to get into the science issue today because: 1. It's still inconclusive what causes sexual orientation ...if you are positing it has anything to do with fetal development,then that is not the fault of the individual any more than ethnicity. Sure, straight or gay, we can and should control our behavior. This society has decided to no longer favor only heterosexual marriage commitments. Marriage ,at least theoretically, controls behavior and encourages stability. 2. Most twin studies seem to be done on males....female homosexuality is even harder to study scientifically Found this in my notes. Take on twin studies. Seems genes are in there somewhere. From Melissa Healy LA Times, Oct. 8, 2015 "Our best guess is that there are genes" that affect a man's sexual orientation "because that's what twin studies suggest," said Northwestern University psychologist J. Michael Bailey, who has explored a range of physiological markers that point to homosexuality's origins in the womb. But the existence of identical twin pairs in which only one is homosexual "conclusively suggest that genes don't explain everything," Bailey added.
  6. Can probably cite twice as many scientific studies refuting all of what you brought up and positing that people are born with a sexual orientation. But that was not my argument.
  7. @Abu Hadi But religion is a choice. That was my argument. The First Amendment, upheld by the Supreme Court, protects at least one class of people who have definitely made a choice. Ergo, if I think that being gay is a choice,which I don't, why can't the protection be extended to them as well constitutionally? Then whether they were "born that way "or not is a non-argument. The Supreme Court bases its decisions on the Constitution, not the Bible or the Quran. Religion, although certain rare aspects of it can be restricted in the interests of society, is generally protected as one of the pillars of society. Marriage is another pillar. Therefore one of the reasons for the marriage equality ruling.
  8. Taking a page from that book and going forward...I'm going to leave Muslims out of this post and concentrate on my fellow Christians. In the Colorado case, the baker was challenged by other members of his own faith for being rather " selectively Christian". Although he said he didn't make Halloween cakes and a few other things, other Christians wondered if he refused cakes for divorced folks who want to remarry ( a big no-no in many Christian sects, especially fundamentalist evangelicals who have the most issues with same- sex marriage)? did he make sure that first time brides and grooms were virgins or at least currently celibate? Did he ask people claiming to be widows and widowers who wanted to marry again for the death certificate of the spouse? Most of all ( the hilarious kicker for me) ...why did he give an interview and say he offered to make other desserts for the wedding...just not the cake? Lol!
  9. Your religious freedom protection, in the US, would include anything that prevented you from practicing your religion. Like preventing you from going to prayer or to the mosque. It does not include your forcing your religious beliefs on others. Islam ,according to other Muslims here, does not require you to open a bakery, make wedding cakes, and then defy the laws regarding selling your goods in the land. So you'd have a hard time proving any religious issues and you'd likely have your case bounced out.
  10. Thank you for the explanation of Islamic responses to this. Leaving aside the fact that a good deal of the science does not lean towards homosexuality being a " choice" ( i.e. You indeed are born that way), last time I checked being a Muslim ( or any other religion) is definitely a choice. Should we leave religion out of the Civil Rights list?
  11. Or you can require all couples , whoever they are, to provide their own topper. Most do around here anyway. Some folks have made up some fantastic myths about the Colorado baker, including that he wouldn't put certain words on the cake, etc. ( how many wedding cakes have words on them anyway?) But...None of that is true because he turned that couple down as soon as he found out they were gay and it never got to discussion of ornamentation, according to the court documents and his own testimony. Turns out he had turned down other gay couples before and finally, one couple busted him. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
  12. I remember this being the reaction of some Muslim bakers who were asked. If I can find it, I'll post it. But I have Grandma duty soon. Lol.
  13. https://www.justice.gov/crt/title-ii-civil-rights-act-public-accommodations sorry...meant to post this earlier and went out of range. 1964 law ( others followed in 1965). My post should have said 1964 when related to businesses. The folks who want to push cases that weaken these laws ( which hopefully will get no where) remind me of the spoiled brats who will kick an entire sandcastle , built by many children, down because they don't like the placement of one pebble on top. They don't understand or care that it will ruin it for a lot of other people. I and many others in this community have already fought too long and hard for our rights around here to have much patience with anyone who is okay with my kids and grandkids getting hurt in the future as a consequence of their not being able to control their homophobia. I don't want to fight battles all over again for the same pieces of political and legal real estate. I'll fight anyone and everyone who wants to shove us back under the boot that we're still struggling to deal with. If they're Catholic or any other kind of Christian, I'll tell them I think they've got the wrong religion. Fortunately, I can say that this is not an issue I've ever had to deal with with my Shia relatives. They absolutely understand why these laws are necessary in this country.
  14. @Ali Al KashmiriThe only reason the Colorado baker had his decision reversed was because the Supremes felt he might not have had a fair hearing by the Colorado commission. Might not have. It was a one-off decision applying only to this particular case. All of Colorado's anti-discrimination laws are still firmly in place and in fact, if you bother to go through the 60 pages of the decision, you'll see the Court affirms them. So if anyone tries it again....more trouble for them.
  15. Funny, I thought Muslims were supposed to obey the laws of the lands they find themselves living in. My daughter's in-laws did so with no problem with the business here. They thought the laws were fine. This country's history is full of oppression and discrimination. White Christians did almost all of the discriminating. Laws were passed to prevent people of different races and sometimes religions from marrying, owning homes in white neighborhoods, going to certain hospitals, being in certain areas at certain times, eating in the same places, or testifying against white folks in court ( you can imagine the murders that took place under that system) etc. etc. Around here we have " Dead Indian Creek"," Dead Indian Road", etc. Why do you think that is? I'm old enough to remember the bad old days, the sit-ins in Greensboro,NC when black people protested for the right to be served food alongside of white people ( why should you have to go out of your neighborhood or even your town to get a meal because whites own most everything?) ,Rosa Parks refusing to give up her seat on the bus, etc.,Caesar Chavez leading boycotts, the Fish Wars, not to mention the multiple times we went to court , as well as other things , around here. Took part in quite a few myself as a kid and adult. In the last half-century ,the Supreme Court has struck down a lot of those racist laws. I have no idea why any Shia would be against that. The 1965 Civil Rights Act cleared up a lot of things, including making it illegal for businesses open to the public to discriminate against protected groups. Protected groups include race, religion, ethnic background, etc. In addition, the individual states, which cannot take away rights the Supreme Court has given, but can go further and give even more rights to more groups, have done so. Sexual orientation is now one of those protected groups in many states now. You learn about the Civil Rights Act around here in basic business courses. For the exceptionally dense, it's printed in the back of business licenses in many states. So there's really no excuse for not knowing your federal and state laws if you're going to open a business. If you have a bakery, you can't pee in the batter and you can't refuse service to protected groups. So, if you're a business open to the public in those states where sexual orientation is a protected class, you serve everybody whatever it is that you normally serve. Otherwise, the question for you, if you have religious or any other issues, is if you can open a business at all there or need to find another way to make a living. You can't expect the nation or state to make an exception for little old you. You follow the rules like everybody else. If you just can't stand, say, gay folks (or Muslims ) and don't want to serve them, you have a few solutions ( which is why I don't get why everybody whines so much about this ). You can open a private co-op and have memberships which you can restrict. This means, in most cases, you lose any tax benefits you may gain by having a public business and you have to be careful about how you operate and not cross the line into " open to the public". But, hey, you can't have your cake and eat it, too...lol. In the case of not wanting to serve gay folks, you could move to a state in which they are not a protected group. If you don't want to serve Muslims, you are out of luck. Muslims are federally protected and there are no states in which you could get away with that in a public business, so the idiot gun store owners in several states who don't want to sell ammo to " Muzzies" will likely have their day in court. In the case of bakeries and wedding cakes in states in which sexual orientation is protected, just have a bakery that doesn't do wedding cakes. You can't be forced to offer something you don't have on the menu, so long as you offer it to no one. That's why nobody can force a Jewish butcher to give them pork. They don't serve pork. Ever. To anyone. The bakeries in this region that make them ( most don't due to lack of space) offer wedding cakes to everyone and I know a couple are run by fairly conservative Christians. They don't have any problem following the law in spite of their feelings about same sex marriage. If they did, they wouldn't make wedding cakes or they'd get into another line of work.
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