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In the Name of God بسم الله


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  1. Like
    Skanderbeg reacted to أبو فاطمة المحمدي in According to Shia logic, can we worship other than Allah?   
    In that case, which creatures of Allah are not "helpers by His permission"?
    The hadith has not mentioned the words "hypocrite" and "hypocrisy." So, where did you get that. You guys are only like munafiqs, in the sense that you are Muslims outwardly only. Otherwise, the munafiqun hide their kufr, while you openly reject the Imams from Allah. Are you then worse than munafiqun? Probably.
    You are spewing nonsense there. You do not have to be a Shi'i in order to quote from Shi'i books, to prove an allegedly Shi'i consensus to a Shi'i. We quote your books to you all the time, and we are not Sunnis.
    You claimed that there is consensus among Shi'i scholars that when you perform your salat in front of a cross or idol, then your intention does not matter. You are a mushrik. Now, you are claiming that you do not know what is in Shi'i books?!
    Considering your self-admitted ignorance of Shi'i books, how exactly did you find that alleged consensus of Shi'i scholars? In your dreams? In your wild imaginations? From your pockets, like Abu Hurayrah?
    Anyway, let me direct you to this fiqh work, which quotes the Shi'i ahadith that are relevant to our discussion:
    One of the ahadith you will find there is this:
    ومنها - ما رواه ثقة الاسلام في الصحيح عن محمد بن مسلم (2) قال: " سألت أحدهما (عليهما السلام) عن التماثيل في البيت؟ فقال لا بأس إذا كانت عن يمينك وعن شمالك ومن خلفك أو تحت رجلك، وإن كانت في القبلة فالق عليها ثوبا ".
    I am sure you must have realized fully by now that your lie about an alleged Shi'i consensus - about the Shirk of whoever performs salat in front of an idol - is a hugely embarrassing gamble.
    In other words, intentions do matter, after all.
    As I told you earlier, pick a clear position. Stop contradicting yourself at every little chance.
  2. Like
    Skanderbeg reacted to أبو فاطمة المحمدي in According to Shia logic, can we worship other than Allah?   
    So, angels are helpers too, along with Allah?
    Notice how you have now inserted "like" in the middle of your sentence. That shows you lied deliberately the first time. This was what you wrote before:
    Yet, in your shamelessness, you are attempting to claim that both are one and the same? Liar!
    As I said, bring the quotes from the Shi'i books. I will not allow you to escape. You lied, and you have to take the full responsibility for it.
    As I told you, in the religion of Muhammad and his family, actions are judged according to the intentions. The Prophet used to pray towards the ka'bah, even when it was full of idols. By your logic, he was worshipping those idols, and was therefore an idolater. But, in Islam, he was worshipping Allah, due to his intention.
  3. Like
    Skanderbeg reacted to أبو فاطمة المحمدي in According to Shia logic, can we worship other than Allah?   
    You simply cannot do without lying. This is the verse, and some translations:
    فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ هُوَ مَوْلَاهُ وَجِبْرِيلُ وَصَالِحُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَالْمَلَائِكَةُ بَعْدَ ذَٰلِكَ ظَهِيرٌ
    Allah, even He, is his Protecting Friend, and Gabriel and the righteous among the believers; and furthermore the angels are his helpers. (Pickthall)
    then surely Allah it is Who is his Guardian, and Jibreel and -the believers that do good, and the angels after that are the aiders. (Shakir)
    then surely God is his protector, and Gabriel and the righteous among the believers; and the angels too are his helpers. (Wahiduddin Khan)
    then surely God is his protector, and Gabriel and the righteous among the believers; and the angels too are his helpers. (Muhammad Taqi usmani)
    So surely Allah is the One Who is his Friend and Helper and Jibril (Gabriel) and the most pious believers and after them (all) angels too are (his) helpers. (Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri)
    surely, Allah is his helper and Gabriel and the righteous among the believers, and all the angels besides are his helpers. (Sher Ali)
    then GOD is his ally, and so is Gabriel and the righteous believers. Also, the angels are his helpers. (Rashad Khalifa)
    then undoubtedly, Allah is his helper, and Gibrael, and the righteous believers and after that the angels are his helpers. (Ahmed Raza Khan)
    then verily, Allah is his Maula (Lord, or Master, or Protector, etc.), and Jibrael (Gabriel), and the righteous among the believers, and furthermore, the angels are his helpers. (Mohsin Khan)
    Is this:
    the same as this:
    And you are not even ashamed to establish your own lie.
    You are starting a new lie? Which Shi'i consensus says if you happen to perform salat in front of a cross or an idol, then you are a mushrik no matter your intentions? I would love to see the Shi'i quotes.
    So, the intention does not matter anymore?
    Will you stick to one opinion please?
  4. Like
    Skanderbeg reacted to Muslim2010 in According to Shia logic, can we worship other than Allah?   
    I have asked the following questions in my quoted post, not yet  answered
    "then surely Allah it is Who is his Guardian, and Jibreel and -the believers that do good, and the angels after that are the aiders. (66:4)
    -  Jibrael , the believers and angels are aiders. Do you think they are gods?
    - If they are not gods then how they are aiders beside Allah swt?
    Also from your reply it is mentioned that the verse address the believers who are aiders of the prophet saww, It is  taken they are not gods / Illah for worship, so it is  acceptable to ask for help from them.. 
    The prophet should be followed in all circumstances, and it is the sunna of the prophet calling Imam Ali like that has been done by the Prophet in all the battles of Islam ie Uhud, Khyber, Khandaq etc.  
    Do you think we should follow the sunna of the prophet when he is  physicality present with us? No cert ably not / sunna should be followed whether he is present physically infront of us or not.
    OP states: According to Shia logic, if calling others than Allah is OK, then worship would be OK as well.
    Thus the logic of OP is null and void.
    Just to clarify we consider Ahl albayat as our waseela leading to Allah swt in the light of the quran and prophet sayings, 
  5. Like
    Skanderbeg reacted to Muslim2010 in According to Shia logic, can we worship other than Allah?   
    ٣٩_٣  أَلَا لِلَّهِ ٱلدِّينُ ٱلْخَالِصُ ۚ وَٱلَّذِينَ ٱتَّخَذُوا۟ مِن دُونِهِۦٓ أَوْلِيَآءَ مَا نَعْبُدُهُمْ إِلَّا لِيُقَرِّبُونَآ إِلَى ٱللَّهِ زُلْفَىٰٓ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ يَحْكُمُ بَيْنَهُمْ فِى مَا هُمْ فِيهِ يَخْتَلِفُونَ ۗ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ لَا يَهْدِى مَنْ هُوَ كَٰذِبٌۭ كَفَّارٌۭ
    [shakir 39:3] Now, surely, sincere obedience is due to Allah (alone) and (as for) those who take guardians besides Him, (saying), We do not serve them save that they may make us nearer to Allah, surely Allah will judge between them in that in which they differ; surely Allah does not guide him aright who is a liar, ungrateful.
    Who are the guardians / Auliya beside Allah swt? The following verses explain it:
    يٰٓاَيُّھَا الَّذِيْنَ اٰمَنُوْا لَا تَتَّخِذُوا الْيَھُوْدَ وَالنَّصٰرٰٓى اَوْلِيَاۗءَ  ۘبَعْضُهُمْ اَوْلِيَاۗءُ بَعْضٍ ۭ وَمَنْ يَّتَوَلَّهُمْ مِّنْكُمْ فَاِنَّهٗ مِنْهُمْ ۭاِنَّ اللّٰهَ لَا يَهْدِي الْقَوْمَ الظّٰلِمِيْنَ      51؀5
    Believers! Do not take the Jews and the Christians for your allies (Auliya). They are the allies of each other. And among you he who takes them for allies, shall be regarded as one of them. Allah does not guide the wrong-doers. (Quran 5:51)
    يٰبَنِيْٓ اٰدَمَ لَا يَفْتِنَنَّكُمُ الشَّيْطٰنُ كَمَآ اَخْرَجَ اَبَوَيْكُمْ مِّنَ الْجَنَّةِ يَنْزِعُ عَنْهُمَا لِبَاسَهُمَا لِيُرِيَهُمَا سَوْاٰتِهِمَا  ۭاِنَّهٗ يَرٰىكُمْ هُوَ وَقَبِيْلُهٗ مِنْ حَيْثُ لَا تَرَوْنَهُمْ  ۭاِنَّا جَعَلْنَا الشَّيٰطِيْنَ اَوْلِيَاۗءَ لِلَّذِيْنَ لَا يُؤْمِنُوْنَ    27؀7
    Children of Adam! Let not Satan deceive you in the manner he deceived your parents out of Paradise, pulling off from them their clothing to reveal to them their shame. He and his host surely see you from whence you do not see them. We have made Satans the Guardians (Auliyaa) of those who do not believe.  (Quran 7:27)
    ٤_١١٩         وَلَأُضِلَّنَّهُمْ وَلَأُمَنِّيَنَّهُمْ وَلَءَامُرَنَّهُمْ فَلَيُبَتِّكُنَّ ءَاذَانَ ٱلْأَنْعَٰمِ وَلَءَامُرَنَّهُمْ فَلَيُغَيِّرُنَّ خَلْقَ ٱللَّهِ ۚ وَمَن يَتَّخِذِ ٱلشَّيْطَٰنَ وَلِيًّۭا مِّن دُونِ ٱللَّهِ فَقَدْ خَسِرَ خُسْرَانًۭا مُّبِينًۭا
    004:119 and I will lead them astray and give them [false] hopes, and prompt them to slit the ears of cattle, and I will prompt them to alter Allah’s creation.’ Whoever takes Satan as a Guardian (Walia singular form of Auliyaa)) instead of Allah has certainly incurred a manifest loss )4:119(.
    اَمْ حَسِبْتُمْ اَنْ تُتْرَكُوْا وَلَمَّا يَعْلَمِ اللّٰهُ الَّذِيْنَ جٰهَدُوْا مِنْكُمْ وَلَمْ يَتَّخِذُوْا مِنْ دُوْنِ اللّٰهِ وَلَا رَسُوْلِهٖ وَلَا الْمُؤْمِنِيْنَ وَلِيْجَةً  ۭ وَاللّٰهُ خَبِيْرٌۢ بِمَا تَعْمَلُوْنَ     169-۝ۧ
    Do you think that you will be left (without a trial)? Note it well that Allah has not as yet seen which of you exerted your utmost in His (Allah his way and did not take Wali  any other than Allah, His Messenger and the Believers. Allah has full knowledge of what you do.
    Now who are the Auliya Chosen by Allah swt for believers? The answer comes from the following verses:
    اِنَّمَا وَلِيُّكُمُ اللّٰهُ وَرَسُوْلُهٗ وَالَّذِيْنَ اٰمَنُوا الَّذِيْنَ يُقِيْمُوْنَ الصَّلٰوةَ وَيُؤْتُوْنَ الزَّكٰوةَ وَهُمْ رٰكِعُوْنَ     55؀5
    وَمَنْ يَّتَوَلَّ اللّٰهَ وَرَسُوْلَهٗ وَالَّذِيْنَ اٰمَنُوْا فَاِنَّ حِزْبَ اللّٰهِ هُمُ الْغٰلِبُوْنَ      56؀ۧ5
    Only Allah, His Messenger, and those who believe and who establish Prayer, pay Zakah, and bow (before Allah) are your allies (Wali). All those who take Allah and His Messenger and those who believe as their Allies (Wali), should remember that the party of Allah will be triumphant. (5:55, 56)
  6. Like
    Skanderbeg reacted to أبو فاطمة المحمدي in According to Shia logic, can we worship other than Allah?   
    Making du'a to creatures of Allah has nothing to do with tawassul. You are confusing tawassul with another issue entirely.
  7. Like
    Skanderbeg reacted to Gaius I. Caesar in According to Shia logic, can we worship other than Allah?   
    I suspect we're dealing with a Qur'anist here, given the OP's language and comments.
  8. Like
    Skanderbeg reacted to Darth Vader in According to Shia logic, can we worship other than Allah?   
    Do what you may, he will refuse to understand intercession even if Umar practiced it for asking rain from God.
  9. Like
    Skanderbeg reacted to أبو فاطمة المحمدي in According to Shia logic, can we worship other than Allah?   
    You really do not have to half-quote the Book of Allah in order to perfect your deception:
    قَالُوا يَا هُودُ مَا جِئْتَنَا بِبَيِّنَةٍ وَمَا نَحْنُ بِتَارِكِي آلِهَتِنَا عَن قَوْلِكَ وَمَا نَحْنُ لَكَ بِمُؤْمِنِينَ
    They said, ´Hud, you have not brought us any clear sign. We will not forsake our gods for what you say. We do not believe you.
    Qur'an 11:53
    ن نَّقُولُ إِلَّا اعْتَرَاكَ بَعْضُ آلِهَتِنَا بِسُوءٍ قَالَ إِنِّي أُشْهِدُ اللَّهَ وَاشْهَدُوا أَنِّي بَرِيءٌ مِّمَّا تُشْرِكُونَ
    We only say that one of our gods has driven you mad.´ He said, ´I call on Allah to be my witness, and you also bear witness, that I am free of all the gods you have apart from Him.
    Qur'an 11:54
    قَالُوا مَن فَعَلَ هَٰذَا بِآلِهَتِنَا إِنَّهُ لَمِنَ الظَّالِمِينَ
    They said, ´Who has done this to our gods? He is definitely one of the wrongdoers!´
    Qur'an 21:59
    إِن كَادَ لَيُضِلُّنَا عَنْ آلِهَتِنَا لَوْلَا أَن صَبَرْنَا عَلَيْهَا وَسَوْفَ يَعْلَمُونَ حِينَ يَرَوْنَ الْعَذَابَ مَنْ أَضَلُّ سَبِيلًا
    He might almost have misled us from our gods had we not stuck to them steadfastly!´ They will soon know, when they see the punishment, whose way is the most misguided.
    Qur'an 25:42
    وَيَقُولُونَ أَئِنَّا لَتَارِكُو آلِهَتِنَا لِشَاعِرٍ مَّجْنُونٍ
    They said, ´Are we to forsake our gods for a mad poet?´
    Qur'an 37:36
    وَقَالُوا أَآلِهَتُنَا خَيْرٌ أَمْ هُوَ مَا ضَرَبُوهُ لَكَ إِلَّا جَدَلًا بَلْ هُمْ قَوْمٌ خَصِمُونَ
    They retort, ´Who is better then, our gods or him?´ They only say this to you for argument´s sake. They are indeed a disputatious people.
    Qur'an 43:58
    قَالُوا أَجِئْتَنَا لِتَأْفِكَنَا عَنْ آلِهَتِنَا فَأْتِنَا بِمَا تَعِدُنَا إِن كُنتَ مِنَ الصَّادِقِينَ
    They said, ´Have you come to us to divert us from our gods? Bring us what you have promised us if you are telling the truth.´
    From these verses and others, we know the exact problem with the tawassul of the mushrikun. They literally believed that their intercessors were lesser gods, who would intercede on their behalf with the Head-God, Allah. No Shi'ah ever does that.
    In any case, tawassul is the Sunnah of the Prophet, peace be upon him and his family. Opposition to tawassul is opposition to the Sunnah; and I guess you know what that means. And, as it has become apparent in recent weeks, most Shi'ah never direct their du'as to anyone other than Allah. It is possible to find a few misguided ones who contradict tawhid. However, mainstream Shi'ism, and mainstream Shi'ah, only practise tawassul. From the look of things, you are very ignorant about tawassul, and that's quite unfortunate.
  10. Like
    Skanderbeg reacted to Abu Nasr in According to Shia logic, can we worship other than Allah?   
    That is not "these logics" that's your logic. I'm simply exposing your fallacy. Your OP is poorly constructed with no valid logical basis.
    Your third post in this thread however, is something to ponder upon.
  11. Like
    Skanderbeg reacted to Abu Nasr in According to Shia logic, can we worship other than Allah?   
    People say Ya Mahdi adrikni not Ya Ali adrikni.
    Also, one should never ask others for help according to your logic. You should never visit a doctor, never drink medicine, never wash your hands etc. Instead, you should ask God to cure you and make you clean. You shouldn't even walk. Why do you ask your legs to help you traverse the earth? You should instead say: "God move me from X to Y. I only ask you. I won't ask my legs."
    Messed up logic.
  12. Like
    Skanderbeg reacted to StrugglingForTheLight in According to Shia logic, can we worship other than Allah?   
    I don't think if Allah [swt] vested some his servants the ability help people and their help was sought, would automatically make them gods.
    The Quran says if there were gods with God, the heavens and earth would be corrupted. Or that each god would take a portion of what it created. 
    That is the only scenario where there can be gods with God. And that's not a scenario at all. 
    It also stated the mushrikeen equated with God.
    The problem is to actually worship other then God it's not about how high you bring creation towards God, but bringing down God to a petty station in which he is somewhat on a level on par with his creation.
    That is why if we acknowledge God as the Highest with recognizing how vastly incomparable he is with his creation, then you cannot really fall outside Tawheed. That is because your reverence to God is unique in a sense you don't worship besides him anyone.
    As Du'a includes the spirit of worship in it's definition, Shias don't do Du'a to other then Allah [swt], even though some people are trying to redefine this word to mean something to suit their agenda.
    At the same time it's Salafis who put hands, feet, eyes, and parts of God on a level that these things exist with Him. That is Shirk and that shows they never understood Tawheed. Their Tawheed is that of blinding following, not grasping the concept.
  13. Like
    Skanderbeg reacted to Azim Hussain in Problem with superstituous ahaadith   
    It was not a good experince :"(
    It was buzzing in my throat i could feel it...but my mom made me drink lots of water
  14. Like
    Skanderbeg reacted to StrugglingForTheLight in Coincidence? 12 number in Quran.   
    What I meant is, that there are Satanic traps regarding other verses of Quran and Satan tries to make us misinterpret Quran in many places.  The most thing he does is he tries to make us see no significance in an a verse while Allah [swt] has chosen these words out of infinite possible words.
  15. Like
    Skanderbeg got a reaction from mohsenhona in The non-belief in the Mahdi by some Sunni's   

    I have a Sunni colleguae with who I talked about the End of Times and then he mentioned the return of Isa a.s.

    Then I added  'and the Mahdi' but then he replied he wasn't sure about the existence of the Mahdi.

    I know he did not made this up on his own but because of hearsay as he is not a real student but one who follows authorized imams and some hardline Sunni sheikhs with Salafi aspirations. 

    My questions are:

    1) If there is a case of invention then should't the belief in the return of Isa a.s. be the first to reject as this belief could be ascribed to Israiliyat, the narratives of converted jews and muslims who added their narratives to our ahaadith while the belief in the Mahdi is much more close to us and last but not least because he a.s. is a son of Muhammad s.a.w., Ahl al-Bayt, Aale Muhammad?

    2) Are there Sunni or Salafi scholars who reject the belief in al-Mahdi a.s. or trying to cover it up and if so why?

  16. Like
    Skanderbeg reacted to ShiaMan14 in Imam Ali, an ordinary man in Sahih Bukhari’s hadith?   
    Ordinary men tried to win Khaybar and didn't get too far.
  17. Like
    Skanderbeg got a reaction from Sol 7 in Problem with superstituous ahaadith   

    Sometimes I hear about hadith which forbids yawning because satan will enter the mouth or always put two shoes or sandals on instead of one because that's the dresscode of satan, to not whistle with the mouth etcetera. 

    These things do actually make me think more about paganism and superstition than monotheism and rationalism. 

    A lot of ahaadith I still remember from my Sunni period but there are probably such ahaadith in Shia books as well. 

    Are these kind of ahaadith reliable or did they crept in in time?

    I fully believe in the islamic fundamentals which in my eyes are contrary to the beliefs of the ones above. 

    If one would say that it are beliefs of pagan and isolated forest-, desert or mountaintribes, or villagepeople from the heart of Trans-Siberia I would believe it immediately but it's hard for me to accept they are an integral part of islam.
  18. Like
    Skanderbeg got a reaction from Amina in The Ambiguous Imam Mahdi(a.s)   
    OP's question is actually:
    What if the description of the Mahdi according to Sunni sources is true?

    It already says a lot about the beliefs of OP so there is no need to discuss this speculative yet biased question at all.

  19. Like
    Skanderbeg got a reaction from Amina in End of ISIS? 'Demoralised' jihadis fleeing as Putin's bombing blitz cripples terror group   

    The war is started by Israel and te West against Iran because Iran after the revolution became a threat for their interests and the existence of Israel. 

    They are using sectarianism as a tool so that others do the work for them and so they have an excuse for their presence in the M-E thereby defending Israel, decimate the muslim population , create a Greater Zion and provoking Iran and now also Russia.
  20. Like
    Skanderbeg reacted to أبو فاطمة المحمدي in Why I do tabara from Sunnis in general.   
    In the Name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful
    Beloved by Allah is he for whose pleading we hope
    To navigate the terrors of the Day of Judgement, which on us descend
    O my Master, send your salutations and blessings forever
    Upon Your Beloved, and his descendants, his Ahl al-Bayt,
    the best of the whole of creation
    Adapted from http://lyricstranslate.com/en/burdah-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A8%D8%B1%D8%AF%D8%A9-burdah.html
    As Shi'ah, we have zero need of Sunni ahadith in our religion. However, we seek to present the Truth to the Sunnis, and they do not accept our ahadith. So, we have to bring out their own ahadith and present them to them (i.e. to the Sunnis). So, the Sunni ahadith (which are corroborated by authentic Shi'ah ahadith) are TRUE in their contents. We therefore can use them for da'wah purposes (not for debating purposes).
  21. Like
    Skanderbeg reacted to neverforgotten313 in Some (disturbing) hadiths on Tawhid   
    sorry wrong thread, one guy wrote here in another thread about how Shia drink urine of horses, and i responded to your quote not realizing i was responding to the wrong person 
  22. Like
    Skanderbeg reacted to أبو فاطمة المحمدي in The Ambiguous Imam Mahdi(a.s)   
    In terms of the lineage of the Awaited Imam (peace be upon him), there is not a single authentic Sunni report. So, that makes it impossible for Sunnis to identify the Imam whenever he reappears.
  23. Like
    Skanderbeg reacted to أبو فاطمة المحمدي in Mukhtar al-Thaqafi   
    This is from a research by bro Islamic Salvation:
    Hadith # 197 is authentic, and it shows that the Ahl al-Bayt (peace be upon him) greatly valued the efforts of al-Mukhtar.
  24. Like
    Skanderbeg reacted to narsis in Umar's interest for Judaism and its books   
    Brother I am not sure whether I am addressee of your sentence or not? If yes I have to clarify that what I've mentioned is based on Sunnis' sources. I have two standards in debating about Shia-Sunni topics:
    1) I often avoid to enter such topics unless for some necessary clarifications like what we have now in this thread.
    2) I attempt to talk based on Sunnis' sources.
  25. Like
    Skanderbeg reacted to iubelum in Some (disturbing) hadiths on Tawhid   
    He did not "scarifice" a part of Himself;rather he shrank: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tzimtzum
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