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In the Name of God بسم الله


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  1. Like
    Cyrax reacted to Haydar Husayn in [LAWS]Is It Haram To Join The U.s Army/military?   
    Thankfully haram and halal aren't based on your personal beliefs, Wahdat. Regardless of the desirability of living in the West, it is obviously not halal to join an army that mostly kills innocent Muslim civilians, and is used as a tool of oppression all around the world.
    As for your false dichotomy between either having to leave the West or joining in the Western oppression of the rest of the world, would you say the same to those non-Muslim Americans who don't believe it is ethical to join the US army? From a more Islamic point of view, what do you say about the Imams living under rulers they considered to be usurpers, while benefitting from state bursaries? Should they have either left the Islamic state, or supported the rulers?
  2. Like
    Cyrax reacted to Abul_Hassan01 in Fiqh Of The 'hidden 12Th Imam'   
    I will repeat why is the Imam acting like a normal fallible human scholar? Like oh there are two traditions etc. Why is he relaying traditions? I thought this is the infallible 12th Imam Mahdi, but here he is presented as a 'reporter' rather than a supreme infallible Imam. People should be reporting from him & not the other way round right?
  3. Like
    Cyrax reacted to ChattingwithShias in Tariq Ramadhan Attacks 'manipulated Sufism'   
    Why do all clerics have to be politically savvy and activist now? Leave some of them alone to just concentrate on spiritual matters.
    This whole 20th century trend of turning Islam into some progressive revolutionary ideology and that all clerics have to be Che Guevara is bizarre to me.
  4. Like
    Cyrax reacted to repenter-gone4awhile in The New Image Of Afghans In Iranian Media   
    The point isn't to ban the entire press or publisher, you first give warnings, then you temporarily ban the journalist, then maybe the editor, etc. There is no black and white, but there must be some standards to the law to control slander, racism, etc,  as "free for all" causes chaos and a lot of immorality. I believe a lot of the point(or cause if you will) of the press has vanished over the years, throughout the world. They used to have standards, and used to report things for the sake of informing people. Now it seems it's only gossip and whatever entertains people, also often used as political tool to advance a goal(which in itself is ok as long as there is truth and objectivity involved).
    From the little i know, the legal system in the US in many cases seems very well implemented on paper, how it is executed however is something i know even less about. I've heard many stories, but i tend to not believe in individual experiences and stories as they are often very subjective and often clouded. 
    We have a saying in Iran, which sounds a bit weird when translated but it goes something like this: "Iranians are best at everything, If an Iranian is a doctor he will be the best doctor, if he is a thief he is the best thief", which is a boasting and self criticism at the same time sort of thing. 
    Iranians have this tendency to not be neutral, either they are religious or nationalists. I've seen very few Iranians, personally, that are in between. But i could be wrong. 
  5. Like
    Cyrax reacted to Haydar Husayn in The New Image Of Afghans In Iranian Media   
    Baradar, I certainly don't wish to underestimate the amount of racism that exists among all Muslim communities, especially towards black people, as you point out. And on reflection, it is very possible that Iranians are not especially racist compared to other Muslims (although I think it would be interesting to see some actual data on this). However, I do think that nationalism seems to be a lot stronger among Iranians than most other Muslim communities (perhaps because of Iran's 'glorious history'), which then often feeds into the racism. Now, like I said, this seems to be a much worse problem among less religious, or simply non-religious, Iranians, but I'm not sure it's limited to them.
  6. Like
    Cyrax reacted to Haydar Husayn in The New Image Of Afghans In Iranian Media   
    No offence to any good Iranian brothers and sisters here, but nationalism and racism do seem to be a massive problem among Iranians. Islam seems to temper it somewhat among those who take their religion somewhat seriously, but you really see it in the non-religious Iranians. It's unfortunate that the government haven't managed to make more inroads into tackling this since the revolution, and if anything, it seems like things might be sliding backwards if reports such as this one are to be believed:
  7. Like
    Cyrax got a reaction from abu-khadijah in Kufans Altered The Thaqalyin Narration   
    To be honest with you the argument was devastating because, if it can be proven that the narrations from Kufa are the only ones that can be understood to support the 12er aqeedah, then it shows that it was much more likely that the narrations were made up by the Kufans, and not by everyone else since the report is mutawatir, and hence, would be highly improbable that everyone else got together to fabricate the narration.  It seems here that the fact that the report with the phrasing that supports the mainstream Muslim's aqeedah is mutawatir, and is the report that supports the 12ers is ahaad and only found in the city of Kufa, should show that, based on the principle laid out by mainstream Muslims and Shi'as alike, the reports that give a theological color to these reports are fabricated.  Its interesting how the fact that this report is mutawatir actually hurts the 12er creed, rather than support it.
    As far as the Sahabah and the Tabi'een who lived in Kufa, then no one is accusing them of fabricating the report; rather, they are accusing political Shi'as in Kufa of doing so.
  8. Like
    Cyrax reacted to repenter-gone4awhile in Share Your Daily Salah Taqibat   
    Is it me or does the stretching(taqibaat) seem longer and more complex than the actual workout(the prayer)
  9. Like
    Cyrax reacted to Timur in Questions_Why Adding Politics To Prayer   
    Probably not, Sunni seems to be straight forward and Shia seems to be a political movement. I see that every where now. One example was the last Eid, all of my Shia friends fasted on Eid. I am sure they only did it because of political reason.
  10. Like
    Cyrax reacted to Haydar Husayn in Documentation Of Imam Mahdi Birth In Sunni Books   
    I don't understand these kinds of threads. Does anyone really think Sunni books contain any evidence of Imam al-Mahdi [a] that is independent of Shi'i sources? If not, then what is the point in giving references to Sunni authors making any statements about him? This approach of trying to prove something by stating that 'it is in Sunni books', as if that means anything in itself needs to stop. What convinces people is evidence and argument, not the fact that something is in a book written by a Sunni. We wouldn't accept that kind of argument against us, so why would they?
    Aside from that, these lists always tend to have misquotations in them, or non-existent references. One infamous example was Sayyid Muhammad Musawi claiming that Nade Ali was authentic, and using as evidence the fact that it was in a 'Sunni book'. Well, it turned out that it was in a Sunni book. The only problem was it was a book about fabricated narrations, and it was listed as one of the fabrications of the Shia!
  11. Like
    Cyrax reacted to Nader Zaveri in Documentation Of Imam Mahdi Birth In Sunni Books   
    I am guessing you have no idea who Ibn Khallikan is or have even read Wafayaat al-`Ayaan, if you did, then you would not make that silly statement. Once again, notice the words "تزعم الشيعة" (The Shias claim) and "الشيعة يقولون" (The Shias Say), also he is quoting another book called "تاريخ ميافارقون", which is where you get the last part from. You just showed the prime example of what I meant by being very deceiving. Thank you for providing this, so I did not have to.
    You must know the scope of the book, this book is full of biographies of major people in different schools in Islam, many of them whom he does not agree with, so he tries to be as objective as possible in giving information about that said individual.
  12. Like
    Cyrax reacted to Arabismo in What Evidence Do The Shia Have For The Existence..   
    Provide evidence from the Quran that  "his successor has to understand the entire Quran, meanings, its interpretations, the time, place and reason of revelation of its verses and last but not least be a living example of the Quran. "
    The Prophet didnt appoint anyone however this topic is not relevant to this thread so go open your own thread and discuss this.
    You said Prophet and Kings in the Quran. However from those you mentioned please bring me evidence from the Quran that Talut was infallible.

    Seems like my part 1 post was deleted
    Part 1
    No its means that we are not going to change the topic and talk about me instead of your Mahdi
    You cleary dont read my posts instead you just keep repeating the things you said earlier which we already replied to. The hadith of the 12 khalifs was adressed in post #68
    The Sunni hadith of 12 Khalifs talks about rulling Khalifs and only 2 of your Imam fulfill the criteria of being a caliph
    I heard the Messenger of Allah say: The affairs of the people will continue to be conducted (well) as long as they are governed by twelve men. Then the Holy Prophet said words which were obscure to me. I asked my father: What did the Messenger of Allah say? He said: All of the (twelve men) will be from the Quraysh. Sahih Muslim, Book 20 Hadith #4478
    I dont see your Mahdi governing anybody therfore this hadith has nothing to do with him 
    This was also adressed in post #68
    The burden of proof is upon you to prove that the 12 khalif hadith is about your 12 Imams not for me to prove its not. But since i know its impossible for you to prove this i will be nice enough to disprove it
    1. The 12 khalifs in the hadith will be rulers who govern, this can only be said for 2 of your 12 Imams, i also dont see your hiding Mahdi governing 
    2. The names of who the 12 khalifs are is mentioned in sunni books.
    Uqbah bin Aws al Sadusi narrated: Ibn Umar RA said: In this nation there shall be twelve Caliphs, Abu Bakr Al-Siddiq, you got his name right, Omar Al-Farouq as an iron horn you got his name right, Othman who is Zhu Nourain (the one with two lights) has been given two portions of mercy for he was innocently killed, you got his name right Takhreej Kitab al Sunnah 1154  Hadith Sahih
  13. Like
    Cyrax reacted to Arabismo in What Evidence Do The Shia Have For The Existence..   
    Part 2
    Speaking of " blind fellow." If you want to quote a bunch of quotes from http://www.al-islam.org/shiite-encyclopedia-ahlul-bayt-dilp-team/special-specifications-imam-al-mahdimake sure you read what you quote before you quote it. You must only have read the first part " The following are the name of some Sunni scholars who wrote that Imam al-Mahdi has already been born" and got all excited.
    These scholars are not in agreement with the Shia
    The first quote simply says in his book. It does not quote what he said and therfore does not show he is in agreement with the Shia. So go ahead and bring the quote from his book and show me how he is in agreement with the Shia.
    Same as above
    Same as above
    Same as above
    Go ahead and bring me the quote from his book and show me where he asserts the Imama
    Ibn Arabi was considered a Shi3i by many and held many weird views and this is what the scholars of Islam say about him.
     ibn Hajar said:Some confusing words of Ibn ‘Arabi were mentioned to our master Shaykh al-Islam Siraaj al-Deen al-Balqeeni, and he was asked about Ibn ‘Arabi. Our Shaykh al-Balqeeni said: he is a kaafir.
     Ibn Khaldoon said:Among these Sufis are: Ibn ‘Arabi, Ibn Saba’een, Ibn Barrajaan and their followers who follow their path and their religion. They have many books in circulation that are filled with blatant kufr and repugnant bid’ahs, trying to interpret clear texts in very far-fetched and repugnant ways, such that the reader is astounded that anyone could attribute such things to Islam.
    Al-Subki said: These later Sufis, such as Ibn ‘Arabi and his followers, are misguided and ignorant and beyond the pale of Islam; those among them who have knowledge are even worse.
    Please quote from his book and show were he is in agreement with the Shia. 
    Tell me what madhab Abdullah Sharani belonged to, provide evidence that he was a sunni and mention who from the Sunni scholars spoke of him. The same for the second guy who claimed Sharani met the 12th Mahdi, and the third guy who was the suppose teacher of sharani.
    Go ahead and bring me the quote from his book that he is in agreement with the shia.
     Same as above
    If he narrates the statement of Hakima he is quoting from Shia books, the existence of Hakima herself is disputed(see video)

    Bring the Page from his book were he says this and show me where Dayar Bakri, Mulla ‘Ali Qari, Abdul Haqq Dehlawi made the claim this his book is realible
     Go ahead and bring me the quote from his book that he is in agreement with the shia.
      Tell me what madhab Abdullah Sharani belonged to, provide evidence that he was a sunni and mention who from the Sunni scholars spoke of him. Then Quote from his book and show me where he wrote what al-islam claimed he wrote.
    Same as above. Since he is "Well known" this shouldnt be a problem
    Where did Nasr say this? Please bring a refrence.
    1. Mulla Ali Qari ÑÍãå Çááøå mentioned the 12 Khalifs as such
    Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Ali ,Mu'awiya, Yazeed ,Abdul Malik bin Marwan ,Walid bin Abdul Malik bin Marwan ,Sulayman bin Abdul Malik bin Marwan ,Umar bin Abdul Aziz ,Yazeed bin Abdul Malik bin MarwanHasham bin Abdul Malik bin Marwan.  References: Sharah Fiqah Akbar, by Mulla Ali Qari, p 176 (publishers Muhammad Saeed and son, Qur'an Muhalla.  Sharah Fiqha Akbar, by Mulla Ali Qari, page 70 (published by Qadeemy Kutub Khana, Aram Bagh, Karachi)  This is what he wrote in Mirqat The Shia refer the twelve Caliph as the continuous khalifas of the prophet’s Ahlebayt, the first is Ali ibn Abi Talib, Hasan bin Ali, Husayn bin Ali, Zain Al-Abdeen, Muhammad Al-Baqir, Jafar Al-Sadiq, Musa Al-Kadhem, Ali Al-Ridha, Muhammad Al-Taqi, Ali Al-Naqi, Hasan Al-Askari, Muhammad Al-Mahdi  
    He is simply writing about what the Twelver believe in, he is not agreeing with the shia as per your lie.
    Tell me which madhab he belonged to, provide evidence that he was a sunni, provide me evidence that he was a scholar and mention who from the Sunni scholars spoke of him.
    Sibt was a shi3i and not a Sunni. He converted from sunni hanafism to shiism as Dhaahbi mentioned
    Hopefully you wont just repeat what you wrote earlier which we now have addressed twice or thrice, rather you will reply to that which we have adressed.own has nothing to do with your Mahdi.
  14. Like
    Cyrax got a reaction from Ibn Al-Ja'abi in What Evidence Do The Shia Have For The Existence..   
    Akhi, with all due resepect, unless you provide us with actual quotes, no one other than a blind follower would accept this.  I was looking through the list, they quoted Ibn Arabi as being a Hanbali, and they quoted an authoer who listed all the different opinions that Muslims have had acting like that means he agrees with the 12ers.  If they had agreed with the 12ers on this, they would'be also been 12ers akhi.
    That list is completely worthless بارك الله فيك
  15. Like
    Cyrax reacted to peace seeker II in Belief In Intercession,compulsory Or Not?   
    anyway regardless of the Names of Allah being created, they are His Names, and not any creature's name. .. as has been suggested in this thread. And when Allah tells us to call upon Him with His names, then He does not mean that those names are people.

    did you write the quran? how can you say "we"? Those are Names that Allah made for Himself .. you didn't make those names. 
    And even if Allah is different from His Names, it does not change the fact that those names are for Him .. and Him alone .. not for some people, as you guys seem to think. or both Allah and shared with people .. whatever it is you believe away from those Names being only for God ..

    nobody here is saying we should worship the Name. i don't know why everybody keeps saying that. All we are saying is that all Names of Allah are for Allah and Allah alone. 
    .. something some people here deny and most have a problem admitting 

    And to Allah belong the best names 7:180

    Allah says that we should call upon Him by these Names of His .. and calling upon him is an act of worship. So those Names are to be used for worship .. and if we treat those names as people, then we worship people
     so invoke Him by them 7:180
  16. Like
    Cyrax reacted to Arabismo in Do Shiites Believe In Finality Of Prophethood?   
    1. What part of
    did you not understand?
    2.1 What evidence do you have that a Tablighi Prophet can bring new laws and the Imam cannot?  
          Can you bring an example of a tablighi Prophet who brought a New law?
          What is the difference between a Tabligho Prophet who did not bring a New law and the Imam except for a title?
    2.2 Explain what you mean by "re-reveals a lost message" and how this differes from "refines their beliefs"
    2.3 This was already adressed above 
    Several Questions.
    1. Did every prophet in the past see the angel while he received the ilham. 
    2. What is the difference between the Imam and a Prophet who never saw the Angel but received revelation.
    3. Does the way a revelation is received affect the revelation itself?
    2.4 Imam would not be higher than a Prophet if they are identical. In the case for the Shia Imamiya they are identical, only the Shia Imamiya claim the Prophet without the title of Prophet is higher than the Prophet with the title of Prophet.
  17. Like
    Cyrax reacted to Haydar Husayn in Status & Authority Of Ahlebait (as) From Quran   
    The Arabs who first heard the Qur'an must have been really confused, because apparently nothing meant what they thought it meant.
  18. Like
    Cyrax reacted to Arabismo in Status & Authority Of Ahlebait (as) From Quran   
    It seems that since the shia cannot find their doctrine of Imama anywhere in the Quran that they now resort to "Esoteric Interpretation".
    [We sent them] with clear proofs and written ordinances. And We revealed to you the message that you may make clear to the people what was sent down to them and that they might give thought. 16:44And We have not revealed to you the Book, [O Muhammad], except for you to make clear to them that wherein they have differed and as guidance and mercy for a people who believe. 16:64 The Quran is clear that the revelation came to Muhammad and that it was his task to make it clear for the people, no where in the Quran does it that the Propets task was to pass on "esoteric" interpretation to his offspring and that it would be their task to explain to the people. In light of this alone all of these esoteric narrations attributed to Jaafar ibn Muhammad are to be rejected. Such as the nonsense that the alif in Allah stands for blessing of the wilaya  
  19. Like
    Cyrax reacted to Arabismo in What Evidence Do The Shia Have For The Existence..   
    We reached a conclusion bu it seems my shia friends are all pumped up about this topic. It seems the mistake was that i opened a thread which attracted only the most ignorant of people from Shiachat. 
    This must be the 12er shi3i version of "In order to understand the bible you need the holy spirit"
    I asked you to bring me evidence for the existence of your Mahdi and you failed. Instead you said once you accept Imama the 12th mahdi comes as a package deal and you dont need any historical evidence.
    In order to say the Mahdi is the one who has the highest rank you must first prove he exists, you did not do so in your post.
    As i said the Shia bring no evidence for the existence of their Mahdi.
    1. I asked you to provide evidence for the existence of your Mahdi which so far you have not, saying that Isa is still alive is not proof that your Mahdi is alive today.
    2. I asked you to provide evidence for the existence of your Mahdi which so far you have not, saying that unseen in verse 2:3 refers to the Mahdi is not proof that your Mahdi is alive today, this is just you following the way Of Ibn Babawayh in attributing verses to the Mahdi. I can also attribute this verse to the  invisible, intangible, inaudible unicorn and say this is the Quranic proof for his existence.
    I already gave you an answer in regards to 13:7. The verse does not say there exists a guide for each time as you stated rather it says that each people have their guide, and the  the Guide of the Muslims is Muhammad.
    3. You did not provide any authentic sunni hadith that talk about a Mahdi who will go into occultation and live for 1000s of years. The books of the sunnis do mention a Mahdi however this is not Muhammad ibn Hasan al Askari so these ahadith have nothing to do with this topic at hand.
    The Sunni hadith of 12 Khalifs talks about rulling Khalifs and only 2 of your Imam fulfill the criteria of being a caliph
    I heard the Messenger of Allah say: The affairs of the people will continue to be conducted (well) as long as they are governed by twelve men. Then the Holy Prophet said words which were obscure to me. I asked my father: What did the Messenger of Allah say? He said: All of the (twelve men) will be from the Quraysh. Sahih Muslim, Book 20 Hadith #4478
    I dont see your Mahdi governing anybody therfore this hadith has nothing to do with him 
    There is no work that can be reliable dated to a period before Hasan al Askaris death that contain any Prophecy or Mention of a Mahdi going into Ghayba and living for 1000s of years which means there is no evidence in writing about the belief that the 12th Imam will go into a ghayba. Also from the fact that after after the death of Hasan al Askari the shia split into 14 new sects is evidence that there was never a prophecy believed by the Shia that there would only be 12 Imams if the Shia believed in a Prophet they would have followed the Prophet and not split in 14 sect some saying that he didnt die others saying he died came back to life and yet others saying that his brother Jaafar was the Imam after him.
    As for the narrations you attribute back to your Imams, there is nothing in the way of these being fabricated to give credibility to one of the 14 sect who made the claim that hasan al askari had a son and the proof that the shia could easily do this is simply the many many narrations that say Musa was the last imam and that he was the qaim http://www.*******.org/hadiths/nusratIf the sect that believed Musa was the Qaim (the waqifa) fabricated ahadith to give credibility to their sect i dont see why the same cant apply to 12er imami sect.
    As for Ilm ul Rijal then this will not help you out because a criteria for a hadith to be sahih in your sect is that all the rijal must be 12er Imami Shi3i, so in order for a hadith to be sahih the narrators must already believe in the hiding Mahdi the very same Mahdi that we are currently examing, if we bring ahadith that would disprove the existence of your mahdi such as those from the Waqifa these ahadith would be weak so ilm ul rijal is to no help.
    Because Muhammad was a Prophet and his successor was not.
    A non-prophet successor
    So Pharoh and Nimrod were infallible?
  20. Like
    Cyrax reacted to investigating in What Evidence Do The Shia Have For The Existence..   
    Is a fallible person authoritative enough to introduce these concepts to Non-Muslims if we taking Shiite's dogma of Imamate into the consideration? Where direct source of knowledge or guidance is no more than an infallible? 
    Well brother I have no concern what previous Imams had been doing to their followers of their time. Here I am much concerned about how the current Imam is conveying this Deen-e-Ismal to the followers of this age?
    Is following fallible narrators, fallible compilers of Hadith books, fallible Ayatullahs and Marjaz EQUAL TO following the current Infallible Imam? (Yes/No)?
    How different you are than Sunnis? Who claim to follow Rasooullah (saw) through fallible source of his companions and theirtheir students and so on? Your statement proves that you don't have divine guidance of Infallible Imam but rather you are having to rely on fallible chains to follow your previous Imams who were the Imams of there time. I can't see the implementation of doctrine of Imamate here as Shia Muslims hold.
    The verse of 12 fallible leaders in Children of Israel has nothing to do with Shiite's concept of Imamate. The covenant they made was not based on believe in Imamate. But was based on performing As-Salah, believing in messengers, honoring and assisting their messengers and spending in the cause of Allah (lenting a loan to Allah).
    This story of 12 chieftains have been narrated in Old Testament and New testament of Bible  (Numbers 1:1 - 4:20 & Deut Ch:1 V:23) explicitly with their names and no where it says that they were divinely appointed Imams as per Shia definition.
    One could easily point out the weight Qur'an is giving the issue of past about fallible individuals and the weight it has given to the supposedly main issue of this Ummah i.e. Imamah of 12 Imams which is no where mentioned in Qur'an. Maybe I'd stop debating with you if I could manage to see at least following types of Qur'anic verses:
    O muhammed ! the world cannot be empty from IMAM… surely I will appoint 12 individuals from your progeny to lead Muslims as I appointed Ibrâhim (Abraham), Ismâ'il (Ishmael), Ishâque (Isaac), Ya'qûb (Jacob) and Al-Asbât [the twelve sons of Ya'qûb (Jacob)] and (Moses), 'Iesa (Jesus) and other Prophets to lead mankind. Tell the people to obey them after you for infact they all are infallibles.. & surely there is a extreme torment for those who disbelieve !!!
    "Oh Muslims, be aware that there will be certain Imaams for you after the Prophet from his generation who are appointed by God and you need to follow them"
    Oh Muslims, Don’t you know that Allah always send imams for the people to lead them & to tell the right path of ISLAM? Surely those who disbelieve in regard of my appointed IMAMS has clearly gone astray… (sooraeiy imamat :18)

    “O Muhammed ! say the people to follow the 12 imams which will be from your progeny to whom Allah will guide as he guided ibraham & other imams from his progeny! “ (sooraeiy imamat :12) 
    (Allah FORBIDS) 
    Brother you accusing me for showing disrespect to our beloved prophet and Ahlelbayt? May Allah forgive you for this accusation.
    Why should I NOT be concerned about the means to follow the divine authority? It is the Shia theory of Imamate which suggests following the deen through infallible without the intervention of fallible authorities (unless the authority is made clear by the divine Imam himself).
    I am not confused. I m just trying to see the implementation of your divine Imamate which seems failed practically. For thousands of years Shias are following fallible leaders and nothing else! If fallible authorities are to be relied on than why accusing Sunnis for relying on their version of Ilm-e-rijaal and Hadith system? They claim to follow the best of infallibles i-e- Prophet Muhammed through their relied rijaal system! The same method applies in your case as well with the exception of the extension of 11 Imams from progeny who were definitely the Imams of their times.
    We are expected to follow the divine leader of our times as per Shiite theory of Imamate? But how?? Through fallibles? 
  21. Like
    Cyrax reacted to Haydar Husayn in Niqab   
    The women of the Ahlulbayt [a] wore niqab (their faces were covered), as did the wives of the Prophet (S), so you should be careful about what you say. Some of our scholars, such as Sayyid al-Khoei, have also said that the niqab is wajib (out of obligatory precaution), while others have said it is recommended. And yes, there are many ahadith on the merits of women not leaving the home unnecessarily.
    Regardless of your views on the matter, I don't see any excuse for you to make fun of women who wear the niqab by saying that they 'waddle', and comparing them to alien monsters. Do you have no shame to make fun of Muslim women, while you speak out of ignorance?
    This is a good example of the 'anti-Sunni' thinking that is unfortunately rife among many Shias. They see something Sunnis do that they don't like the look of, or that sounds silly to them, and then they make an assumption that it isn't in Shi'ism (perhaps based on not seeing it much), and then start attacking that practice without doing proper research.
  22. Like
    Cyrax reacted to SlaveOfAllah14 in How Fair Is The System Of Khums Today?   
    Bumping the thread as the question posted by OP is very important and no satisfying answer has been given. 
  23. Like
    Cyrax reacted to SlaveOfAllah14 in How Fair Is The System Of Khums Today?   
    The money collected from Khums is far far more than the money collected from zakat. 
    For example, look at the wealthy business men who are millionaires and billionaires. They are the ones that literally have amassed the wealth of a country. Each and everyone of them have to according to Sharia must pay 20% of their income surplus to Khums, of which 50% goes Sayiids. Now imagine how many of the are entitled to pay Zakat? very very few. Cause they haven't amassed cattle, silver and gold, rather they've amassed money.
    So just imagine, 10% of their income surplus going to Sayiids, while the non-Sayids who are far far greater in number than Sayids, get almost no Zakat. As Ayatollah Khomeini (ra) has been quoted in the posts above, "The khums of the bazaar of Baghdad would be enough for the needs of the sayyids and the upkeep of the religious teaching institution..."
    Logically it quiet obviously looks unfair.
    So any knowledgeable brother out there who can explain this?
    What would you say to a sunni or non-muslim asking this question?
  24. Like
    Cyrax reacted to Haydar Husayn in How Fair Is The System Of Khums Today?   
    I think there is an obvious problem in the way zakat, which as has been pointed out is a pillar of our faith, has become virtually obsolete (to anyone who isn't a farmer or a wholesaler) by the switch to paper currency. I made a thread about a related point once, but didn't really get any satisfying responses either: http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235003617-should-an-islamic-state-use-paper-money/
  25. Like
    Cyrax reacted to Renaissance_Man in How Fair Is The System Of Khums Today?   
    Bro. Salman Haqiqi,
    Thanks for your informative responses in this thread.  The part about the excess from Sahm-e-Sadaat being reappropriated by the marja for other causes makes sense and is along the lines of what Ayatullah Makarem Shirazi says in his book:
    So this is what should happen in theory, but how does it work in practice?  Some of the widely followed maraje in the world like Sistani and Kahmenei have collected billions of dollars in khums.  Does anyone even know how much of the sahm-e-sadaat is actually given to the needy and what's done with the leftover funds?  I suppose that highlights one of the problems with the system of khums in place today.  There is no transparency or accounting for where the money goes or how its spent.
    You mentioned that the non-sayyids amongst the poor receive their money from zakat but this is again something that for the most part doesn't exist today.  Zakat, as understood by ulema today, is not levied on wealth - but on cattle, crops, and gold/silver currency.  Consequently most people end up paying nothing in zakat leaving little to no means of assistance for the majority of the poor in the ummah unless they resort to receiving zakat from the Sunnis.  It's hard to believe that zakat - a pillar of our faith and the second most important ibadat after prayer - has all but become obsolete today.
    Again, our ulema need to do something to correct this imbalance.  Updating the laws of zakat to include cash, just like we do with khums, would be a start.  Transparency in the collection and expenditure of khums would help bring to light how the funds are being used today and where they might be best allocated.
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