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In the Name of God بسم الله


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Everything posted by Cyrax

  1. I need to stop posting, I've been on here for like five hours!  I'll see you all tomorrow, please keep your responses concise so I don't spend another five hours here tomorrow!

  2. I've never felt happier talking to a Shi'i, we can disagree all we want, but the end of the day, its the month of Ramadan and we need to use it as a means to get closer to Allah. Newfound respect for my boy ShiaMan14, and I have to vote you up for loving Cyrax
  3. The hadeeth is authentic according to both Sunnis and some Shi'as. The Shi'as who authenticated the hadeeth did so with the thought in the back of their mind that Fadak was a gift. I am going to agree with my scholars and the Shi'a scholars who authenticate the hadeeth and absolve him of any lying. Context of the hadeeth also makes it pretty obvious that Fatima عليه السلام didn't disagree with the hadeeth either. God wants to remove Rijs O, Ahl al Bayt, has nothing to do with infallibility, I'm not sure how you can reach that conclusion even if you take the verse out of context. I think you may have missed the discussion, بارك الله فيك, he was making the claim that this didn't exist in our sources.
  4. @ShiaMan14You are not allowed to go there wholesale, just briefly and only if you had researched issues for hundreds of hours which lead you to thinking Albani is a bigger hadeeth scholar than Yahya ibn Ma'een and that this "اخراس شٛخ ا س و اتٍ ذًّٛٛ سحًّ انرفصٛم ٔقال إرا دػد انحاخح إنٗ إسضاع انكثٛش ٔأسضغ ثثد انرحشٚى" is Arabic. I never thought I'd see the day where I'd agree more with @ShiaMan14 than with @Intellectual Resistance
  5. Save me your emotional blackmail and read what he said He was doing what is known in logic as "ilzam", if what you go by your standard in criticizing Abu Bakr and Omar, we would have to do the same with Ali عليه السلام, and the results would be worse. So please, stop with this emotional temper tantrum and actually deal with what was said to you. And you are attempting to make it seem like these scholars speak for everyone in the Ummah. The scholars that weakened the narration hold more weight than the scholars that don't. Since you don't understand Ilm al-Hadeeth, and don't realize there is a distinction between the Mutaqadimmeen and the Mutakhireen, you fell into a very basic error. An error that I would expect from a person who just learned Ilm ar-Rijal and attempted to authenticate a hadeeth based on Rijal Math. You need to just accept that you are not qualified nor do you understand what you are talking about. Go take a course, spend the next ten years studying ahadeeth, then come back to me and I guarantee you will be embarrassed of your previous "research." Yeah, they were wrong and the older scholars who hold more weigh for us were right. AlAlbani رحمه الله and Al-Arnaut رحمه الله are contemporary scholars, and ibn Hajar رحمه الله is known to be a mutasahil and from the muta'khirreen. Wait, do you think I am Hani? My name is Khaled and I swear to Allah on this day of Ramadan on this possible night of Qadr that I am not Hani and have never met him. Hani for the record, as well was Rationalist from that board are both Mu'tazilites. Farid does not think that, and if he did in the past, he has recently rectified his position. I find all this talk rich considering that there is nothing that obligates me from following a school of aqeedah, while from my understanding, you are obliged to follow a Marji3. Who is your Marji3? I generally find people that keep posting the same things over and over to have basically admitted that they are getting emotional and are no longer interested in an academic discussion. I am glad to see you are trying to learn, but if you are learning just to support your sect and to refute everyone else, then I think you have a fundamental problem, أحسن الله إليك.
  6. Abu Bakr without a doubt. Ali عليه السلام confirmed it by not taking back Fadak, and Fatima عليه السلام confirmed it by dying while being pleased with Abu Bakr. 1. I'll be the first to admit when I am wrong, I remember that Abu Bakr bin Abi Shayba was disputed but I am no longer sure why I thought that. I think he may have had a brother that was disputed, but I can't find him. 2. Where are the other reports? Its Shadh because it contradicts reports that Ali عليه السلام pledged allegiance twice to Abu Bakr. 3. If Omar did threaten Ali عليه السلام, does that justify Ali عليه السلام pledging allegiance to him, Omar and Uthman? Are you seriously trying to tell me that Ali عليه السلام gave up the Imamah (a divine appointment) because he was scared of Omar? *edit* This is the same Omar that we are told was a giant coward while Ali عليه السلام was the bravest warrior of all-time; so much so that even the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم relied on him in battle. How can you possibly expect me to believe that this coward suddenly got brave and thought that he can attack Ali عليه السلام's home without suffering repercussions? At the end of the day, this isn't a thread about whether you can or can't curse whoever you want; rather it is to show how your guys' attitude come off to non-12ers (including Zaidis and Ismailis). Zaidis have the same problem (at least some of them) with the Sahaba as the 12ers, but why don't we see them on the minbars cursing? I think Yazeed and Marwan were evil, do you see me cursing them? It is not befitting of a believer to behave this way, no matter how many Qur'anic verses you take out of context
  7. Honestly, when I went to look up the thread you are quoting from, I honestly felt sincerely embarrassed for you. Look at what was said to you Ya miskeen... You talk to me about ilm al-rijal and you refer to Yahya bin Ma'een as a "medium/lower" tier scholar?! This shows that you fundementally don't understand ilm al-rijal, and why your Thaqalayn article isn't convincing to other Shi's, let alone mainstream Muslims. This was downright emberassing, as you posted the same thing on here as well: Akhi, how can you expect me to take you seriously after this; I am being serious. This doesn't need a comment truly. Then look what Hani said, which totally shows your dishonesty in your copy and paste of him Absolutely shocked that you would do such a thing during Ramadan, WHILE fasting. You were already completely refuted when you tried to post on the "other site" and I already read it there. So I hope you understand why I don't your posts about hadeeth seriously
  8. I hate to upset you, but I, and pretty much everyone who isn't a Shi'i agree with Abu Bakr here. You are going to have to go a LONG way to prove he was in the wrong and this wrong makes him a someone you can justify cursing. However, you can do it all you want; but understand why such an attitude is not going to get you very far in convincing people of your "truth"
  9. They actually do all the time, even in our times and especially in 7th century Arabia. All of the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم's children (except for Fatimah عليها السلام) died before he did. In fact, both of his sons died WAY before 18 years old. “When Fatima became ill, Abu Bakr came to her and asked for permission to enter. So Ali said, ‘O Fatima, this is Abu Bakr asking for permission to enter.’ She answerd, ‘Do you want me to give him permission?’ He said, ‘Yes.’ So she allowed him (to enter), and he came in seeking her pleasure, so he told her: ‘By Allah, I only left my home and property and my family seeking the pleasure of Allah and His Messenger and you, O Ahlel Bayt.’ So he talked to her until she was pleased with him.” (Sunan Al-Bayhaqi) Yes, of course there are different rules; but they STILL would've inherited from it, so I'm not sure what exactly was your point here. He stopped them because they were complaining about Imam Ali عليه السلام. If this decleration was some important, he would've declared at the Farewell Pilgrimage where most Muslims would've heard it, not at a random watering hole where only a small minority would've remained. I've found that when someone resorts to insults, he has already lost the debate.
  10. My interpretation of Shi'asim comes from people like Al-Mufid and Kamal al-Haydari; to me those are real Shi'is. The reality is, I am on here every day and I know exactly how each user was going to respond. I try to stay away from posting on here because I literally can waste hours (like I have been doing.) Alhamdulilah, from this I got that Abu Bakr, Omar, Uthman, Hafsa and Ayesh cannot be cursed, and you don't curse them. Alhamdulilah we've reach this conclusion. References: [1] Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v1, p55 [2] Sirah al-Nabawiyyah, by Ibn Hisham, v4, p309 [3] History of Tabari (Arabic), v1, p1822 [4] History of Tabari, English version, v9, p192 References: [1] Sahih Bukhari :Book 86 [Kitab Al Hudud] Chapter 31. References: [1] Musnaf of Imam Ibn Abi Shaybah, Volume 7 page 432 Tradition 37045. [Saheeh Chain] Sigh... The only report that indicated that there was a threat comes from ibn Abi Shayba, a disputed individual with no corroborating evidence whatsoever. In fact, it contradicts what we know of these events from other sources. I agree that the chain doesn't have a problem with, but when its a singular report that contradicts more authentic reports, it becomes Shadh. I replied to this despite it being a copy and paste for the record. Copy and paste, this just distracts from the post. Bring everything up point by point or else we can't have a discussion. This is a discussion board, not a place where we exchange copy and pastes. This is not the attitude of the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم or the Ahl al Bayt عليهم السلام, or the Sahaba. From our perspective, you've pretty much refuted yourself. I already know all this information بارك الله فيك, I've been involved in Sunni/Shi'a debates since at least 2006. You should bring up everything point by point instead of copying and pasting your conclusions. How is that a discussion?
  11. Considering there has been so many replies, I'm going to just make this one massive reply. I hope this doesn't bother anyone إن شاء الله. As far as this post is concerned, I generally have a no-discussion policy with people who don't want to be part of the Muslim Ummah while claiming to be Muslim. It doesn't matter of he is a khariji or a 12er, I found those two extremes to be people that you can't have a conversation with. Exactly, she fell into error, like other Sahaba did (please note that my definition of Sahaba includes that four khulafa). Does this justify cursing her? I know this is not a mainstream practices, but does justify "celebrating her death?" People can be critical of whoever they want, but we are here to discuss la'nah and sabb. Could you imagine what would happen if a Sunni speaker (even one speaking to a handful of people) described ANYONE of being lower than dogs and pigs. Unfortunately, one of the greatest 12er scholars of the last 100 years said that about Ayesha, believe it or not. Ameen. Do what for the sake of Allah? Not considered authentic. I asked respectfully in the first post, no cutting and pasting. You are free to do what you want, but in the context of this thread, I'm going to ignore it. I'm going to include this under copy and paste. However, I hope you realize that my understanding of Imam Ali عليه السلام's character comes from mainstream Sunni sources; while I respect Kamal al-Haydari, I don't consider the 12er hadeeth literature to be reliable.
  12. I don't believe Fatima al-Zahra عليها السلام was killed, rather she died a natural death. I also believe she died approving of Abu Bakr, that's why sources say. Quoting one narration here and there (from Ayesha nonetheless, who was not part of incident) won't negate the dozens or reports that say the opposite. If Fadak was oppression against Fatima عليها السلام, it would've also been oppression against Ayesha and Hafsa and the other wives of the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم because they too would've gotten a share. Ghadeer and Saqeefah are intretpreted differently by us. I don't think Ghadeer has ANYTHING to do with Imamah or politics and Saqeefah is an unfortunate incident that led to best possible scenario playing out any way (from my view); Abu Bakr, then Omar, then Uthman then Ali, the 4 best of the Ummah took over. And as far as Allah forgiving you for cursing them, then I hope that is the case
  13. Do you sincerely believe that based on quoting these verses that this means you have been given full fledged right to curse anyone including Abu Bakr, Omar, Uthman and Ayesha? This sort of rhetoric, while it may make sense to you, would just turn off the average Muslim immediately. This is what this thread is about, not what the Shi'a justifications for cursing are, (which I already know).
  14. I've actually found that it is the non-Arab speakers that do most of the la'an. People like Yaser al-Habib are an anomaly from what I can see. Allahyari is not an Arab speaker, although I will say, his Arabic is better than any non-Arab 12er Shi'a that I've personally witnessed
  15. Yeah, I called him out on it, he's jumping from topic to topic, unfortunately.
  16. LOL, akhi, come on. I said "and praying 3 times a day EVERY day because 5 times a day is inconvenient." I agree with you that is allowed (although I don't think the hadeeth of Anas ibn Malik is enough to not put restictions on it, but if that is your fiqh, thats fine by me), my issue of it being done inside of the 12er Masajid. So you don't "often" combine, you infact combine every time (out of convenience). This is the tactic that I hoped I wouldn't see out of you. Whenever you get cornered in an issue, you open up on a new one. The fact of the matter is, Malikis pray by Sadl because of some statements that some of the tabi'een made, which they turned into "Amal of Madeenah", not because of any authentic hadeeth they can trace back to the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم. Whats' even more fascinating however, is that the Malikis admit that Imam Ali عليه السلام prayed by grasping his hands. That to me is more interesting than reading into the geopolitical and historical connotations that which confirms my bias.
  17. And the Sunni Defense team also provided research into this topic and they also presented "literally objective here's a fact, and this is how it is". Their argument was academic from people that understand Ilm al Hadeeth, sorry akhi, I don't think you really understand the basics
  18. Not really comparable, because one is focused on the basics of the religion (prayer and the lack of emphasis put on it by the 12er madhhab) while the other is an issue which is misinterpreted by Islamaphobes. Both Sunnis and Shi'is (i.e. none Daeshis) agree about the treatment of slaves and war captives in Islam; just like both agree about the importance of prayer. Yet, in practice, we see Shi'as making a big deal of congregational prayer in Ramadan while performing matam or zanjeer zani instead, and praying 3 times a day EVERY day because 5 times a day is inconvenient. This is enough to make the average Muslim not take the fiqh ruling of 12ers seriously.
  19. Lets just stick to one topic at a time, you've already introduced the concept of names and attributes on a thread which has nothing to do with that. I will say, I have seen your research of hadeeth ath-Thaqalayn and found it to be unconvincing. Now, lets stick to the already number of topics we are discussing.
  20. Not sure what you meant here (PS how do you keep quoting my post without having to copy and paste everytime? Would make my life a lot better! بارك الله فيك) This is something each school says about the other; however, when you break them down, you find they all share the same outlook on the names and attributes; they just either a) don't understand the other side, or b) or give the other side an intrepretation that they didn't intend. I tend to find the Salafi criticisms to be from the first category, while I find the mutakillim criticisms, yours being included, to be from the second category. I personally agree with the Salafis on some issues, the Mu'tazilah on some and the Ash'aris on most. The same way I do when I find those ayat in the Qur'an, it depends on context. I don't agree with the Salafis regarding eyes and hands, just like I don't agree with the Mutakilimeen regarding the attribute of Mercy. I find their reinterpretation of words like mercy to be equally as problematic as you do with the Salafis interpretations of hands and eyes. If you want to know which aqeedah I belong to, then I would say I am reluctant Ash'ari. I disagree with this completely, I have never in my life met a non-student of knowledge who has heard the words Ash'ari and Mu'tazili; they know the word Salafi, but not because of aqeedah. As far as the child asking that question, does he, after you answer him, ask you "are Allah's attributes separate from his entity?" Come on, akhi, lets be real here. These issues have no significance whatsoever to the Muslim layman, what they care about are atheism, gay rights, marriage, slavery etc. What's funny is you hold the same views they hold about you; I personally think both of you are wrong. Shaykh ibn Uthaymeen رحمه الله was wrong, and I don't have a problem saying that. You'd need to discuss this with someone who agrees with him, i.e. someone like you. I disagree with him. I follow people like al-Hafidh ibn Hajar and al-Nawawi رحمهما الله. Both agreed with the Asha'ris in some cases, and the Salafis in other cases. I also follow where Allah says: I think all sects have something to offer, I dont just stick to one group and ignore the rest of the Ummah and think everything I have is right. All sectarians from all different groups launch scathing attacks on each other. People like Hanafi Fiqh are the same as IslamQA and sad to say, the same as you. I'm glad you said "almost all"; while that is not true, it at least shows that you admit that not everyone is worrying themselves about sectarian dogmatic issues No I don't, I can be a Muslim and I don't have to follow a dogma. Sorry, this is not Islam as I understand it.
  21. You didn't need to prove anything to me بارك الله فيك as I mentioned in my initial post that Abu Lahab was cursed by name. As far as the people that massacred Ahl al-Bayt, that includes Abu Bakr, Omar, Uthman, Ayesha and Hafsa? I don't understand history like you, so may be a better approach would be to FIRST prove that these people were oppressors, THEN you can go on a cursing spree. However, at the end of the day, mainstream Muslims are always going to go the safe route and not curse the Sahaba (even if they see some wrong with some of their actions) because, a) no one is perfect, and b) Allah سبحانه وتعالى says: For me, cursing someone who might be a Mujahir or an Ansari is pretty much of the question in lue of these verses, بارك الله فيك, and most Muslims are going to feel the same way. Justifying cursing these individuals because "Allah cursed the munafiqs" is pretty much a green light to let the person you're talking to know that you are not a person that should be listened to.
  22. If you understand that, then why do you have a problem with people not wanting to curse the Sahaba in public?
  23. I know your position, the problem is that Shi'as attempt to prove their views "from Sunni sources" which is quite absurd to be honest. Again, I don't care about our differences here, if you'd prefer not pray congregational prayers during Ramdan, that's your choice, I don't care one way or another and it is not a means for us not to unite. However, I will say, things such as this fiqh ruling and praying 3 times a day (even in a Mosque, not even making the Athan 5 times a day) are issues that will probably turn off most people interested in Shi'asim right away (just being frank here).
  24. Disagree with those post whole sale, and it just a very good example of what I'm talking about. First of all, the pins on a needle thing is not the same as "can Allah create a rock that he can't lift." The second is something that all three schools agree on is impossible, while the first is a questions of the unseen. Just like issues of Allah's names and attributes. We don't know their reality, we don't know what is the reality of Allah's power, just like we don't know the reality of Allah's "eyes, throne etc" These are all concepts of the unseen which Allah mentions in the Qur'an. You unfortunately have decided that theological issues which most laymen don't think about (or even know about) as the most important aspect of tawheed. I do not think that people are going to be thrown in hell for having the wrong interpretation about Allah's attributes. I do think you will be thrown in hell for misinterpreting someone else's aqeedah in an attempt to portray him as a mujassim or a mu'attil. Second of all, I think that worship of Allah is the most important aspect of tawheed, not secondary issues about things we can't possible know or even conceive. To me its' far more problematic to call on other than Allah in times of hardship or to say that Allah gave certain slaves of His complete power over every atom. These are clearly laid out in the Qur'an. For me, if a person is convinced by any of the three schools, that's fine, he may be right, but he's not a better Muslim than the other two just because they were wrong in an academic discussion. Finally, I don't think being a salafi has any negative effects on a person's relationship with Allah; you've never seen any Salafis for example creating images of Allah despite the consistent attacks on them being anthropomorphic. Just like I haven't seen any mutakalimeen negating the existence of Allah despite the consistent attacks on them being negaters of Allah's essence. Rather, what I've seen is atheists and liberals having a field day attacking Islam while we sit on the side line arguing about whether Allah's eyes are metaphorical or they are real in a matter that befits him; the Islamic equivalent of how many angels can God fit on a pin. P.S. Hanafi fiqh channel is a perfect example of an extremist channel. I don't take anything they say seriously
  25. He صلى الله عليه وسلم didn't "strictly" say anything, rather, he said it is better to pray at home. I think you need to realize that you can't base your entire fiqh on one or two narrations (especially when those narrations are being narrated by people who interpret them the opposite of how you understand them.) However, at the end of the day, we can agree to disagree about secondary issues; the problem is, how can Zanjeer Zani be justified during the nights of Ramadan while taking such a confrontational attitude towards congregational prayers?
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