Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله


Advanced Member
  • Content Count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won


Everything posted by Cyrax

  1. وعليكم السلام, Not true at all, the majority of Sunni Hadeeth scholarship view this hadeeth as weak. However, even if it was shown that it was a minority, you can tell the author of this debate was being deceptive when he said "unanimously accept it." Aren't the names Bukhari, Tirmidhi, ibn Ma'een and adh-Dhahabi enough to show the this claim of unanimous acceptance is false?
  2. السلام عليكم حبيبي، جمعة مباركة I am starting to feel like perhaps there was some miscommunication somewhere along the line. So I'll try again to make this point: How can you claim the Ijmaa of Ahl al-Bayt, when most Ahl al-Bayt scholars are NOT Zaydi? Ijmaa means consensus, which consensus are you actually referencing? And if you are referencing a Zaydi only consensus, then why is that evidence to support any practice? So when I mention the majority here, I am not saying they are necessarily right, I am saying you can't claim CONSENSUS when you are a minority. Its like a Trump
  3. Our discussion went like this akhi: A) You said, "Zaidi put ijma of Ahlulbayt above any singular narrated hadith." B) I replied with, how can you claim Ijmaa of Ahl al-Bayt when most Ahl al-Bayt scholars aren't Zaydi, not the the majority are necessarily right. C) You then seemed to mean that this Ijmaa is within the madhhab, which you now confirmed. D) So I brought up the point of, why is the Ijmaa of Zaydi Ulemaa' (since it doesn't seem to be an Ijmaa of just Ahl al-Bayt anymore, but just Zaydi scholars) any more relevant than the Ijmaa of anyone else. Which is were we a
  4. بإذن الله Just to be clear, we both believe in following Ahl al-Bayt عليهم السلام, its just our difference is a) who is Ahl al-Bayt and b) should we follow them exclusively. I'm with ya so far... Yes, but the point I was making, أحسن الله إليك, is that the MAJORITY of Ahl al Bayt scholars are Sunnis, and the majority of the Shi'i ones are 12ers and not Zaidi. Therefore, the claim you made earlier that... This is why I wanted to have this discussion. My point has been, that the Zaydi claim to this Ijmaa cannot be true, unless they mean Ijmaa within their own ma
  5. السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته I think we need to start over, أخي. 1) I sincerely believe that Imam Ali عليه السلام, amongst others were all viable options to be the Khalifa after رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم and, after reading your post several times, I am failing to see why you see it as me paying "lip service." I am not a Sunni politician with a sizeable Shi'a constituency to need to do that, I have no dog in the fight. 2) Your issue is not with Sunnis, your issue is with all non-Shi'i Muslims; which includes Sufi, Salafi, Ash'ari, Madhabi, La Madhabi, Conservatives, Libera
  6. Did you check the sources بارك الله فيك? If you would like I can send you the article by private message so that doesn't break forum rules. But I will say بارك الله فيك, for a person who is encouraging people to read more, I'm surprised you didn't know that Omar (and Abu Bakr) were at every single Ghazwa, and were with the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم. Did you know about the role Abu Bakr played pre-Badr? I would recommend أحسن الله إليك that you sit down with Sirat ibn Hisham and give it a read without any preconceived notions. Read it as neither a Shi'i or a Sunni and see what k
  7. Why would they? They don't believe that Imam Ali عليه السلام should've been the Khalifa after رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم. However, it is used as evidence that Imam Ali عليه السلام is at least the best judge of the Sahaba. It is also used as evidence that Abu Bakr was the most merciful of the Ummah, the most stern is Omar, Othman has the most Hayaa', Ubay is the best Qur'an reciter, etc. It shows that different Sahaba have different merits. I don't have a "belief" about that, I've never thought about it before you asked. In fact, I'm not sure how I can do research on this to show
  8. The references are found in the article I copy and pasted that from بارك الله فيك. As per the rules of the forum I didn't to link to the site as it is ant-Shia site, but I wanted to show that quick Google search would produce the results you would want.
  9. They agree that it is explicit in choosing Ali عليه السلام as a successor, but not in regards to what that actually means as I mentioned: Strange, but this is a very famous Sunni belief: https://sunnah.com/urn/1251540 The Messenger of Allah said: The most merciful of my Ummah towards my Ummah is Abu Bakr; the one who adheres most sternly to the religion of Allah is 'Umar; the most sincere of them in shyness and modesty is 'Uthman; the best judge is 'Ali bin Abu Talib; the best in reciting the Book of Allah is Ubayy bin Ka'b; the most knowledgeable of what is lawful
  10. What were you quoting بارك الله فيك, it looks like you quoted yourself by accident
  11. Hadeeth Thaqalayn is not explicit either since the Sunni version mentions to take care of Ahl al-Bayt, and not to follow them exclusively. Even if it did, the hadeeth wouldn't imply following ONLY Ali عليه السلام, and then ONLY Hassan عليه السلام and so on. I'd argue that even the Shi'i version of the hadeeth isn't explicit to proves Imamism. I find it interesting that you so quickly moved on from Hadeeth Ghadeer. None of these ahadeeth, or hadeeth al-Kisaa, or Hadeeth Harun to Moosa are in any way explicit since Shi'as disagree one what these ahadeeth actually mean. I'm not su
  12. السلام عليكم, I did a quick Google search too and found the following: He didn't quote that it was Omar that responded to Abu Sufyan after the defeat at Uhud at the order of رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم. والله تعالى أعلى وأعلم، وصلى الله وسلم علي نبينا محمد وآله
  13. Sunnis, 12ers, Ismailis, and Zaydis have different interpretations of what this hadeeth means; heck even you yourself said: So therefore, this hadeeth is not explicit in supporting Zaydi aqeedah, or any aqeedah for that matter. Which I didn't, بارك الله فيكم. You can believe anything you want about who has more merit in being a political leader, but that doesn't have any bearing on who is greater in the eyes of Allah. Abu Bakr can beat the best Sahabi or the worst Sahabi, it doesn't really have any bearing on who is a better leader. I'd give some examples, but I don't
  14. So its not an Ijmaa of any one except Zaydi scholars. Therefore, unless there is reason to believe those Zaydi scholars are more knowledgeable than the rest of the Ummah, or an explicit evidence from the Qur'an that we should follow them, then there would be no reason to give their Ijmaa any more weight then say, the Ijmaa of the Hanafis or the 12ers. Which Mutawatir ahadeeth do you think support the Zaydi aqeedah? I would think you would know that the issue of who should've succeeded رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم isn't an issue of aqeedah for Ahl as-Sunnah considering you do s
  15. How can it be Ijmaa' of Ahl al-Bayt if most Ahl al-Bayt scholars are not Shi'i, let alone Zaydi? Of course... Of course he could have been, but I don't agree with the highlighted part. Some of the Sahaba stated the Zayd ibn al-Haaritha رضي الله عنه (I think its ok to make Du'a for him, excuse me mods if this is not allowed) would've been the Khalifa after رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم, so there are definitely a lot of possibilities on who could've have succeeded. Heck, even Abu Bakr himself stated he wasn't the most qualified. أحسن الله إليك أخي, but I don't know why y
  16. السلام عليكم إخوان Firstly, the following Sunni scholars weakened the hadeeth: 1) Al-Bukhari, 2) Al Shawkani, 3) al-Daraqutni, 4) ibn Ma'een (who is known as being lenient in grading hadeeth), 5) al-Tirmidhi (also lenient) , 6) al Uqayli, 7) ibn al-Arabi, 8) ibn Taymiyyah and 9) al-Dhahabi and 10) Al-Albani. Some of them graded it as being fabricated, والله أعلم. I am not sure of any reputable Sunni scholar strengthened this hadeeth except al-Hakim, but his Mustadrak is considered to actually have around 30% weak ahadeeth, and even ahadeeth found in Bukhari and Muslim despite it su
  17. السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته أحسن الله إليكم يا إخوان It seems to me, from reading this thread, that we can reasonably define the position of the three "schools" as follows: All three Muslim "schools", Sunni, Zaydi and 12er, believe in guidance being delivered to us through the from of oral transmissions, books and the opinion of our most learned people; it is just we disagree on the a) sources of guidance, with the Sunnis claiming their sources are the most authentic because they are widespread and corroborated, the Zaydis claiming theirs are because it only comes from Ahl a
  18. السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته, While he حفظه الله may have lived in Iraq all his life, I've seen Shi'a speakers who are born Arabs who are poor at Fusha. Remember, we are talking about a Marji'3 of the highest level, not someone being able to speak colloquial Arabic. However, as much as it is inconceivable that he is not a master in Arabic in your eyes, it is inconceivable to me that he has never been recorded because of security reasons, avoiding fame or being a politician. I think you would agree with me that him, not being proficient in Arabic at a level that someone like him
  19. السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته, بارك الله فيك وأحسن الله إليك. I don't see any reason to believe that there is "no way" he does not speak Arabic proficiently despite his studies. I don't mean to be disrespectful, but take other Ayatollahs who have spent their entire lives studying Arabic; I don't see any of them proficiently speaking Arabic. Reality is, we don't have any record of him speaking Arabic, so we cannot know how well he can or he can't. Therefore, since one of the most famous people on earth (think about that) doesn't have ONE SINGLE RECORDING of his voice available an
  20. I only sincerely have two issues with Zaydism: 1) That I find that there are a lot of Zaydis, historically and in our modern times, who hold the same takfeeri views that the 12ers have. 2) I am not sure of the Zaydi madhhab's sources; meaning, who are the "Ahl al-Bayt" that the Zaydi scholars take from and how much can I rely on the Zaydi scholars to accurately report their madhhab. Since I've never studied Zaydism on that level, I can't really say one way or the other whether I think its a legitimate madhhab to follow or not. I'd have to check out some of your other entries si
  21. Fascinating, this is another issue that the Zaidis agree with the rest of the Muslims on; while our 12er brothers want to act like this is a Shia vs Sunnah thing. Zaidis agree with the non-12er narrative regarding Mut'ah, Ashoora and washing the feet in wudoo'. I think a lot of the 12er brothers need to rethink their arguments regarding these issues; because even the other Shi'a sects don't agree with them. This doesn't mean the non-12ers are right and the 12ers are wrong; it just means that the issue is not a sectarian issue, but an issue of interpretation.
  22. He slept in the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم's bed and they waited outside his صلى الله عليه وسلم's house to assassinate him. When they found it was Ali عليه السلام ورضي الله عنه had been sleeping in his bed, and not the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم, what did they do? But you're right, I didn't mean to derail this thread, but when this story was brought up it reminded me of his thought I had the other day. Since I'm not really able to go back and forth on here, I'll just leave it at that. If you have a good response, maybe we can do it in private chats and go back and forth at our own
  23. Do you speak fluent Arabic? And did you record him? And did he speak "Iraqi" to them, or did he speak Fusha? "Since the overthrow of the Baath Party, al-Sistani has played an increasingly prominent role in regional religious and political affairs and he has been called the "most influential" figure in post-invasion Iraq.[15][16] Shortly after the US invasion began, al-Sistani issued a fatwa advising Shia clergy to become engaged in politics in order to better guide the Iraqi people toward "clearer decisions," and to fight "media propaganda."[citation needed] As the summer of 200
  24. Sorry to go off topic, but I was thinking about this story earlier. If Imam Ali عليه السلام ورضي الله عنه was supposed to be the Imam after the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم, why didn't the Meccans do something to him when they caught him in his bed? You would think a person who was so important to the Religion would've been a target for the Meccans. Heck, after Ali عليه السلام ورضي الله عنه killed Hind's brother in the mubarazah, Hind only went after Hamza عليه السلام ورضي الله عنه who killed her father and uncle.
  25. Exactly, he is a Marji'. There is a reason why we criticize Salafis for always asking "Shaykh Google." If he is merely "a jurist who specializes in jurisprudence" and by that it is understood that "has nothing to do with giving public speeches and leading large congregations", then he is merely just a "Shaykh Google." Which is why you often see such a drastic different in opinions regarding his fatwas; because he gives vague answers and leaves up to the laymen Shi'a to figure out.
  • Create New...