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In the Name of God بسم الله


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Posts posted by faridov

  1. عندي سؤال واحد فقط لك و للامثالك  , متى ستعلن تشيعك؟ 

    بين وبين التشيع شعرة، وهي النص على إمامة علي والحسن والحسين وعلي ومحمد وجعفر وموسى وعلي ومحمد وعلي والحسن ومحمد. وأريد نصا وليس اجتهادا. فإن كان عندك ما طلبت فسيكون تشيعي على يدك فلا تبخل علي وتحرمني مما فتحه الله عليك. ه

  2. @ Musa: Last time someone put a link he was temporarily banned.

    @ Muhammad: If you don't mind then I will name my site without including a link, so that it doesn't get a higher rank. Is that find with you?

    @ Haydar: I never ran HCY. I run TSN. I allow links to SC on TSN. Heck, I link to alislam.org, wilayat, RTS, all the major Shia sites.

  3. Alsalam alaykum wa rahmatullah,

    Many of your here know that my website is not allowed on Shiachat because of the anti-Shia content.

    However, my content is academic and my criticisms against Shia beliefs do not incite hatred. If there is anything that you believe entices hatred then please let me know and I will gladly erase it.

    I thought that Shiachat promoted freedom of expression. How do you mods what Twelvers to be sure of their faith when they are not allowed access to the opposing view? Would you rather keep them blind to my criticisms? Let the average Shi'ee decide who is upon truth.

    Much love to all and happy iftars. ;)

  4. You haven't proven your second statement. Rather you have basically asserted it.

    Who says you can't accept Twelver hadith sources unless you become a Twelver? Again, you need to prove this statement.

    I am glad you brought this up because this will give me a chance to rephrase what I mean and perhaps get through to readers.

    Here is an example to get my point across:

    A convert, one who does not cling to Sunni nor Twelver hadith has chosen to accept Islam due to the Qur'an, some inspiration, or (insert any other reason here). Upon entering the deen, he is faced with two hadith libraries, the Sunni hadith library and the Twelver hadith library. After going through several books of Shia hadith, he arrives at the conclusion that the Twelve Imams are appointed, and that whoever rejects one of these Twelve men is damned to hell. He finds no such thing in Sunni hadith works, or little to no mention of some of those men. What would make this new convert accept the Twelver sources along with this teaching?

    How about the example of an ex-Sunni? He begins to believe that Sunnism is false and turns his back away from the hadiths of those that do not come from Ahl al Bayt. He does find a lot of narrations from Ahl al Bayt in the Sunni hadith corpus. However, he chooses to reject it and rely on the foundations found in Al Saduq's books. What drove him to accept those sources?

    In both scenarios, these two that have embraced Twelver Shiasm only arrived at this through accepting Twelver sources. Yet, one would not accept Twelver sources unless one becomes a Twelver Shia.

    Remember, this is a foundation of the religion, and yet, cannot be proven with external evidences.

    If asked about his deen, he would say: I am a Twelver Shia.

    If asked: Why? He would say: Because Twelver Shia sources told me to accept the Twelve.

    If asked: Why do you accept the Twelver sources? He would say: Because I am a Twelver Shia.

    The same cannot be applied to any Sunni foundation, and even though I would love to discuss some of the adalat al sahaba stuff here including proofs from Qur'an and Shia hadiths, I'm not keen on getting the thread derailed.

  5. Secondly, you need to define very clearly what you mean by Twelver hadith sources. Do you mean Twelver ahadith books and all that is in them, or do you mean specifically the ahadith that explicitly mention who the Imams were?

    I am referring to early sources of hadith written by Twelver Shias like Al Kulaini, Al Saduq, and Al Tusi.

    Although, in principle, of course one could have been a Twelver even if they had never seen those narrations or the narrations that came down to us, simply by witnessing the Imam of the time and recognizing him and accepting from them the Imamate of the 12, or the 12th [in order to be considered a Twelver] or those who will become Twelvers when the 12th comes and may not have read or seen any Twelver hadith sources. So this means that your premise one isn't applicable on everyone and in every time [which actually opens up a lot of discussion especially with regards to the early 12ers], and logically it becomes a particular proposition (juz'i) and not a general principle valid for all times and situations.

    Indeed, it is not applicable to all times. I never claimed that it was. It is circular logic to the people of our times though.

    In more logical jargon:

    [*]Your Premise One: One cannot be a Twelver unless he accepts Twelver hadith sources - the جهت of the proposition here is not بالضرورة rather only today you may see it in some cases as being بالفعل. Otherwise, I mentioned above, there were individuals who believed in the 12 Imams without having to see or read any narrations [simply because they lived at the time of al-'Askari for example] or may exist بالقوة . I don't want to take the discussion into those 12ers who are 12ers due to taqleed - which I would argue that the large masses in most sects observe this methodology - as that will open up another discussion, but that is also one group of people who are 12ers without having any real understanding of hadith sources in order to accept or reject them [rather they may use their taqleed - for which they may have done a valid qiyas - to accept the narrations. I am speaking of Qiyas of logic of course, not what is understood in Fiqh]. Therefore, being a Twelver is an effect of accepting Twelver hadith sources, but its cause (that which makes one a 12er) is not limited to this.

    Indeed, one can be a Twelver without using Twelver hadiths, through matters like taqleed, lack of research - which is the case with most ex-Sunnis, and by force. However, and perhaps this is one of the ill effects of reading too much ilm al jadal/kalaam, my point is clear and I am talking about the acceptance of the Twelve Imams based on Daleel. This is what I mean by "becoming a Twelver."

    I doesn't seem to be an issue of my phrasing of the dilemma that Shias find themselves in, since many of the readers here perfectly know what I am talking about.

    @ Al-Englisi:

    [2] Similarly one can not be born in the desert without any communication with others and believe in Aakhirah(especially if he never witnesses death). I'm not even speaking about the details, the mere concept - do you claim it can be proven just by plain ta`aqqul and no experience? 

    Indeed, one cannot arrive at akhira without an external source. One needs nass.

    Please refer to my other answers to Ibn Al Hussein since they are similar to objections that you raised.

  6. Looks like I forgot to respond to a coupple of points made by brother Islamic Salvation.

    Please, if anyone noticed me skipping a certain point that has to do with the topic of the circular reasoning of Shias, then please make an additional post to let me know, or PM me.

    Islamic Salvation, you said that the Imamah of Ali, Al Hasan, and Al Hussain, can only lead to the Imamah of the rest of the Twelve. Let us say, for the sake of the argument, that their Imamah is proven, how does that lead me to accepting the Imamah of the rest?

  7. @ Al Ibrahimi: I could not find Tawtheeq for Al Alaaf. Please see my analysis on the hadith. Any hadith with additions hold no weight when you see how many chains go back to Jabir bin Samura which do not include these additions.

    @ Islamic Salvation:

    Ahlan akhi. It has been a long time. Nice hadith, but it is weak due to Mohammad bin Eisa. See Tahreer Al Tawoosi and the evidences brought by Al Behbudi in Ma'rifat Al Hadith that expose him as a liar.

  8. I will not be responding to posts outside of the topic. I will only respond to arguments made about external evidences of the Twelve Imams.

    It is important to be aware that proving that Sunnism is based on circular logic does not affirm the correctness of Twelver Shiasm. Find yourself a way out of this rabbit hole, then make a thread proving that Sunnism is based on circular logic.

    @ baradar jackson:

    Your evidence for the Imams is their personalities. These are derived from Shia sources. You can barely find more than a couple of lines of information from your late Imams.

  9. Ask the thousands of sunnis that converted to Shia Islam after their research to find the right path.

    None of them can provide evidence of the Imamah of the Twelve without a circular reasoning, as I have demonstrated in the past week or so.

    @ Al-Ibrahimi: Akhi Al-Kareem, believing in the Prophet peace be upon him during his time was a tangible matter. His prophet-hood was tangible. One did not need to refer to the Qur'an for his name. His existence in front of you means that you do not have to rely upon circular logic.

  10. Al-Afasy: Islam is not based on circular reasoning. Ask the thousands of converts that became Muslims after reading the Qur'an. It is ironic that you attack Islam in order to defend Shiasm.

    Brother CM: See my article on the hadith of Twelve Caliphs in the Popular Section on my site. I would include a link, but it is not allowed according to SC rules.

  11. Some of the brothers have been curious about the Imamah of the Twelve and why I have chosen it as a debate topic. As we can see from my debate with Abu Hadi, the way to prove the Imamah of the Twelve can only be done with the usage of Shia hadiths.

    It is impossible to know who the Imams were from the Qur'an, since their names aren't included.

    It is impossible to know the Imams from Sunni hadith since there is no evidence of appointment of the Imams in Sunni hadith.

    There is no evidence of the Imams from using logic alone, since one needs evidence of appointment to accept their Imamah. One cannot be born in the desert and contemplate the stars, then start believing in the Imams.

    The ONLY evidence of the Imamah of the Twelve is through Shia hadith.

    This means that if you are a Twelver, then you are following a circular reasoning.

    One cannot be a Twelver unless he accepts Twelver hadith sources.

    One cannot accept Twelver hadith sources unless he becomes a Twelver.

    The smart Shi'ee amongst you will try to throw that question back at me and say: Then then same applies to Sunnis.

    The smarter Shi'ee will know that that the fundamentals of the deen according to Sunnis is not based on circular reasoning, since all our fundamentals are explicit in the Qur'an.

    Ironically, even Shia sources themselves are extremely questionable and I suggest checking out my site for my reasons why in the article about Sunni vs Shia Hadith Sciences. However, that is another topic for another time.

    Please try not to derail the thread.

    May Allah guide us all.

  12. If you're so committed to making da`wa to the Majus, then just start a regular thread and allow anyone to respond.

    There are no majoos here. You are all my brothers and I want to share what I believe is true.

    Our main difference of opinion is this: You have affirmed the Imamah of Twelve Imams and I do not.

    Wallahi if the Twelve were Imams from Allah then it would not be that hard to prove. Truth is clear and falsehood is clear.

    Will I be damned on the Day of Judgement because I did not find any evidence for the Imamah of the Twelve?

    Most of you joke and taunt, but there are some of you that think: Why aren't they showing him the proof? Why aren't they debating him when we are upon the truth?

    I am not asking for evidence of a small matter like the placement of hands in prayer or wiping the feet. If that was our only difference, then we would not be called Sunni and Shias, but we would be one!

    I ask for evidence regarding the main foundation of Shiasm: The Imamah of the Twelve. You should all be stepping up in order to prove me wrong, barak Allah feekum.

    Or am I not worth saving because I am not a jahil Sunni? And that only ignorant Sunnis deserve to be guided?

  13. Alsalam alaykum wa rahmatullah,

    I'm sure that many of you by know have noticed that the debate between me and Abu Hadi has ended.

    For those that are not aware of it, you can find it here:


    Abu Hadi, may Allah bless his heart, was one of the few with courage to accept to debate me on the topic of the Imamah of the Twelve. Unfortunately, we could not come to terms and after 56 posts, we both decided that it was best to call an end to it.

    I thereby extend this debate invitation to the rest of my brothers here on Shiachat. Please prove to me that I am supposed to follow the Twelve Imams that you choose to follow.

    My conditions are the same as they were in the past.

    - It is a one on one debate.

    - I do not require a moderator to approve of my posts.

    - The topic is not to be changed to the Imamah of Ali, since I concede this point, for the debate is about the Imamah of the rest of the Imams.

    - Any challenger will need an endorsement of two moderators. This rule extends to moderators and admins as well, for they will need two endorsements too.

    The debate will take place on Shiachat.

    Jazakum Allah khairan on your patience and may Allah guide us all.

  14. If Al Ghadeer needs to be reinforced and clarified with other hadiths, then it is not sufficient proof of the Imamah of Ali.

    I do not see how this is a waste of time. In the last couple of days we barely spent ten minutes posting. However, I accept your wishes to end the debate.

    Jazakum Allah khairan for your time and patience, and I wish you guidance my brother.

    Wa alaykum alsalam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh.

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