faridov

بين وبين التشيع شعرة، وهي النص على إمامة علي والحسن والحسين وعلي ومحمد وجعفر وموسى وعلي ومحمد وعلي والحسن ومحمد. وأريد نصا وليس اجتهادا. فإن كان عندك ما طلبت فسيكون تشيعي على يدك فلا تبخل علي وتحرمني مما فتحه الله عليك. ه

Allah yahdeek ya akhi. We should discuss these things.

@ Muhammad: His temporary ban ended. Ask Hameedah or check the ban log or something. My "ilk" are dishonest? That's rich.

Not blocked, but if I post it, then I will be banned. This happened to brother Abu Hussain Al Hussaini not long ago. He was banned by admin: hameedeh, if that is her name. [MOD NOTE: Your friend's name is Abul Hussain Hassani and he was not banned but temporarily suspended.]

You should join my forum brother _Abbas. You will not find answers here. See my other thread. ;)

@ Muhammad: Yes.

Did I just break a rule or something?

@ Musa: Last time someone put a link he was temporarily banned. @ Muhammad: If you don't mind then I will name my site without including a link, so that it doesn't get a higher rank. Is that find with you? @ Haydar: I never ran HCY. I run TSN. I allow links to SC on TSN. Heck, I link to alislam.org, wilayat, RTS, all the major Shia sites.

Alsalam alaykum wa rahmatullah, Many of your here know that my website is not allowed on Shiachat because of the anti-Shia content. However, my content is academic and my criticisms against Shia beliefs do not incite hatred. If there is anything that you believe entices hatred then please let me know and I will gladly erase it. I thought that Shiachat promoted freedom of expression. How do you mods what Twelvers to be sure of their faith when they are not allowed access to the opposing view? Would you rather keep them blind to my criticisms? Let the average Shi'ee decide who is upon truth. Much love to all and happy iftars. ;)

See signature.

I never accepted the appointment of Ali. Re-read the debate.

I am glad you brought this up because this will give me a chance to rephrase what I mean and perhaps get through to readers.Here is an example to get my point across: A convert, one who does not cling to Sunni nor Twelver hadith has chosen to accept Islam due to the Qur'an, some inspiration, or (insert any other reason here). Upon entering the deen, he is faced with two hadith libraries, the Sunni hadith library and the Twelver hadith library. After going through several books of Shia hadith, he arrives at the conclusion that the Twelve Imams are appointed, and that whoever rejects one of these Twelve men is damned to hell. He finds no such thing in Sunni hadith works, or little to no mention of some of those men. What would make this new convert accept the Twelver sources along with this teaching? How about the example of an ex-Sunni? He begins to believe that Sunnism is false and turns his back away from the hadiths of those that do not come from Ahl al Bayt. He does find a lot of narrations from Ahl al Bayt in the Sunni hadith corpus. However, he chooses to reject it and rely on the foundations found in Al Saduq's books. What drove him to accept those sources? In both scenarios, these two that have embraced Twelver Shiasm only arrived at this through accepting Twelver sources. Yet, one would not accept Twelver sources unless one becomes a Twelver Shia. Remember, this is a foundation of the religion, and yet, cannot be proven with external evidences. If asked about his deen, he would say: I am a Twelver Shia. If asked: Why? He would say: Because Twelver Shia sources told me to accept the Twelve. If asked: Why do you accept the Twelver sources? He would say: Because I am a Twelver Shia. The same cannot be applied to any Sunni foundation, and even though I would love to discuss some of the adalat al sahaba stuff here including proofs from Qur'an and Shia hadiths, I'm not keen on getting the thread derailed.

I am referring to early sources of hadith written by Twelver Shias like Al Kulaini, Al Saduq, and Al Tusi. Indeed, it is not applicable to all times. I never claimed that it was. It is circular logic to the people of our times though. Indeed, one can be a Twelver without using Twelver hadiths, through matters like taqleed, lack of research - which is the case with most ex-Sunnis, and by force. However, and perhaps this is one of the ill effects of reading too much ilm al jadal/kalaam, my point is clear and I am talking about the acceptance of the Twelve Imams based on Daleel. This is what I mean by "becoming a Twelver." I doesn't seem to be an issue of my phrasing of the dilemma that Shias find themselves in, since many of the readers here perfectly know what I am talking about. @ Al-Englisi: Indeed, one cannot arrive at akhira without an external source. One needs nass. Please refer to my other answers to Ibn Al Hussein since they are similar to objections that you raised.

Looks like I forgot to respond to a coupple of points made by brother Islamic Salvation. Please, if anyone noticed me skipping a certain point that has to do with the topic of the circular reasoning of Shias, then please make an additional post to let me know, or PM me. Islamic Salvation, you said that the Imamah of Ali, Al Hasan, and Al Hussain, can only lead to the Imamah of the rest of the Twelve. Let us say, for the sake of the argument, that their Imamah is proven, how does that lead me to accepting the Imamah of the rest?

I suggest that you guys google: Twelve Caliphs Twelver Shia to see my three part analysis which includes the Hadith Text, the Sunni perspective, and the Shia perspective. And afwan.