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In the Name of God بسم الله


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Posts posted by Dragon123

  1. I am currently investing money in a retirement plan (Roth and 403b) and investing through Fidelity and TIAA-Cref. There are a lot of different mutual fund options where groups will invest money for you. It came to my attention that many of these are potentially haram because they may invest in businesses that are involved in haram. It is hard to know which companies are so certain mutual funds create filter based on principles to avoid this issue (social responsible investing or SRI). This issue was addressed and confirmed by marjas, such as Sistani:


    In light of what we have said, investing in mutual funds and the stock market in which the returns are not guaranteed would be permissible.
    Such investments, however, could become haram because of secondary reasons: like If one invests in a company that deals in a haram commodity, such as a brewery or casino. The best option for a Muslim investing in mutual funds would be the “ethical funds'” since such funds do not deal in alcohol, tobacco, gambling or environmentally harmful products.

    However, there are a few companies such as AMANA which also involves riba:


    The Growth Fund does not make any investments that pay interest. In accordance with Islamic principles, the Fund shall not purchase conventional bonds, debentures, or other interest-paying obligations of indebtedness. Islamic principles discourage speculation, and the Fund tends to hold investments for several years.

    However, if you review other rulings from Sistani, he allows investment into interest bearing bonds and acquiring interest from non-Muslim banks. Do we need to concern ourselves with this added emphasis on interest and, if so, to what extent?

  2. 11 hours ago, Ozzy said:

    Life expectancy is what God wants it to be. It doesn't have to be 100s or 10s. It can be a few seconds, a few minutes, to hundreds of years. How many people came in this world for a few seconds? Why can't the same number of people live for hundreds of years? There are many things we can't get our heads around in this world, especially when it comes to elections.

    I haven't disputed the fact that God is perfectly capable of doing this. I am questioning about any evidence that humans "normally" lived this long.

  3. 18 minutes ago, hameedeh said:

    If we would ask a medical doctor, we would probably be told that people in ancient times ate naturally and more nutritiously than we do now, so they could live longer. The foods we eat today are full of sugar, salt, chemicals, preservatives, etc. Living beyond 55 is considered an accomplishment. 

    The reality is that life expectancy has gone way up, especially in the past 100 years. Either way, we are not talking about a few decades but 100s or even 1000s of years here. As is mentioned above:


    His people never mention it as an oddity, nor does he mention it as a miracle to bolster his credibility. Furthermore, considering that others in his time lived to 300 years, which is itself hard for us to imagine, it seems we cannot consign his long age to a miracle.

    I just can't wrap my head around this to be honest.

  4. Quote

    Salam. Do you agree that Satan is even older than Prophets you listed? The lives and how long creatures live are determined by the will of Allah SWT.

    Wa laykum asalaam. Yes, I do. As I said though, I don't find it logically or religiously objectionable that Allah (swt) can do such a thing. I just find it strange to justify a worldview where in the past people normally lived this long. There are simply a lot of problems these hadith raise that I haven't seen answers for.


    The Qur'an confirms that Nuh عليه السلام lived over 950 years, so why is it unlikely that others did?

    The above is also verified by Jewish records of Prophets عليهم السلام.

    It only is difficult believe because I can't make sense of it any historical context. As for it being in Jewish sources, I am not sure that it adds much to what has been said. I think you would hard pressed to find any independent evidence for the claims outside of it.

  5. The hadith literature is filled with narratives of the past prophets living for extraordinary long periods of time. Although I do not find this logically disturbing (as God can prolong the life of any human), I do find it historically objectionable. Below is a list of some of the ages that have been described in hadith literature:


    1. Luqman lived for 400 years

    2. Riyan, father of the king of Egypt, lived for 1,700 years

    3. The Prophet Adam lived for 930 or 1000 years

    4. The son of the prophet Andreas lived for 969 years

    5. Seth, son of Adam, lived for 912 or 940 years

    6. Anush, son of Seth, lived for 750 or 960 years

    7. Qeinan, son of Seth, lived for 920 years

    8. Mahla’il lived for 800 or 960 years

    9. Mahla’il’s mother lived for 960 years

    10. Shaddad, son of ‘Amir, lived for 900 years

    11. Jamshid lived for 850 years

    12. ‘Umar, son of ‘Amir, lived for 800 years

    13. Lamech lived for 777 or 790 years

    14. The Prophet Hud lived for 760 years

    15. The Prophet Solomon lived for 712 years

    16. Egyptian king lived for 700 years

    17. Fereidun lived for 500 years

    18. Darid, son of Zaid, lived for 456 years

    19. ‘Amr, son of Hujjah Rumi, lived for 400 years

    20. Zuhair, son of Abdullah Kananah, lived for 420 years

    21. Pharaoh lived for 411 years

    22. Rabi‘, son of Saba‘, lived for 380 years

    23. Abdul-Masih Nasrani lived for 350 years

    24. Aktham, son of Safar Asadi, lived for 330 years

    25. The Prophet Jethro/Shu‘aib lived for 240 years

    26. Sirat, son of Sa‘id, lived for 220 years

    27. Safieddine Riyahi lived for 200 years…and so on.


    Sources: Shaikh Saduq, Kamal-ul-Din, p. 555-onward; Ali ibn Hussain Ma‘sudi, Murawwij-a-Dhahab, vol.1, p. 338-onward; Allameh Majlisi, Bihar-ul-Anwar, vol.51, pp. 227-286; Sayyid Muhammad Kazim Qazwini, Imam al-Mahdi, p. 276.

    In Shaykh Rizwan Arastu's book "God's Emissaries: From Adam to Jesus" he notes:


    “Most of our traditions confirm his (Noah) age at 2,500 years (Biḥār al-anwār vol. 11 p. 285 tr. 2). The Qurʾān in 29:14 tells us that he remained among his people for 950 years during his mission as a prophet. This timeframe does not account for the 850 years he lived before becoming a prophet or the 200 years during which he built the ark or the 500 years he spent after the flood. We know about the rest of his life only because of traditions from Prophet Muhammad and his family (Biḥār al-anwār vol. 11 p. 285–6 tr. 2). Some believe that Noah’s life was extended to 2,500 years miraculously or that they used to count each month as a year. However, there is nothing in Noah’s story to suggest that his longevity was miraculous. His people never mention it as an oddity, nor does he mention it as a miracle to bolster his credibility. Furthermore, considering that others in his time lived to 300 years, which is itself hard for us to imagine, it seems we cannot consign his long age to a miracle. ʿAllāmah al-Ṭabāṭabāʾī explains that there is no cap on on the age a human can live. Especially if a person lives a simple and healthy life, there is no reason he cannot live long if God wills.”

    Excerpt From: Rizwan Arastu. “God's Emissaries Adam to Jesus.” iBooks

    One could as had suggested, say this was counted in months; however, this seems entirely ad hoc. To suggest that it was "normal" is also problematic in that it seems to contradict what we know about the world and how it was. I don't see a shred of evidence outside these hadith that humans had lived that long normally.

    Any suggestions about how to view all of this information?

  6. Salaam,

    While believing in religion and God necessarily entails belief in the "supernatural" and miracles, at times it can feel too much and inconsistent with the reality. While the history of our own prophet and Aimmah (peace be on them) seems rather mundane and believable, the stories of the prophets of old feel a bit different. Although many of the stories contain powerful moral lessons, we shouldn't be prone to interpret them as allegories, as we believe these prophets were real historical figures and the stories are real.

    I'll illustrate just a few of many examples from a great book recently published by Sheikh Rizwan Arastu "God's Emmissaries: Adam to Jesus." I will provide sources for any of these upon request.

    Woman during the time of Noah menstruated yearly, instead of monthly


    “It was not only men who opposed Noah. There were women who began dressing and acting indecently, dousing themselves in perfume, and mingling with men in illicit pleasure. They would adorn themselves with jewelry and don silken garments and sit with men in public celebration. Until that time, all women menstruated only once annually. To impede these women’s lust, God made them menstruate every month to diminish their desire, to occupy them with their bleeding, and so the men would distance themselves from them. This retribution initially affected only these corrupt women who numbered some 700. However, in coming generations, the progeny of the women with monthly cycles interbred with the progeny of the righteous women with annual cycles. Since the women with monthly cycles were more successful at conceiving and bearing children, this trait came to dominate and eventually drove the other trait to extinction.55”

    People did not grow gray hair until Abraham did


    “When Isaac reached adulthood, he looked so similar to his father that people had trouble distinguishing them. In those days, people’s hair did not turn grey, so the vast difference in their ages did not help set one apart from the other.281 Then one day, when Abraham was grooming himself, he noticed a grey hair in his beard. He had never seen a grey hair, and so he asked God concerning this, and God told him, “It is a sign of dignity.”
    Hearing this Abraham prayed, “God, increase my dignity.282 Praise is for God who has brought me to this ripe old age without my having sinned for a moment.”283”

    Mary was miraculously transported to Karbala to give birth, while Musa was transported there to receive his prophethood.

    Solomon commanded an army of jinns, birds and talked to ants.

    The entire Nile river turned to blood, but only to the disbelievers. When the believers drank from it, it was clear water.

    Noah lived 2500 years and most of the other prophets of old lived at least few hundred years old (without seemingly any comments from the population).


    These are to just name a few of several stories. I have found it hard to understand many of stories in historical context and many modern historians have their own scathing criticisms of these prophets and their stories (such as Exodus, the flood etc..), albeit from a Biblical perspective.

    At first, I was nervous and perhaps even ashamed to make a thread like this. Most people seem to read these narratives and it has little effect on their certainty of Islam. It makes one feel their faith is deficient and by pointing out difficulties, you are insulting the religion and scripture and demeaning God's ability . However, I wish to be honest with myself that such stories do cause doubts for me and haven't sat well with me for years.  If someone were to ask me to defend and make sense of many of these stories and histories, I would have a lot of trouble doing so and feel it to be unnatural. I have always craved a faith that is perfect and can have certainty without having lingering doubts and things swept under the mental rug. Although certainty none of these are core Islamic tenets, they are in our tradition and we have to deal with them.

    How would do you guys deal with stories like these?

    How do you guys deal with Islamic issues that go against what you deep down inside think is right?

  7. Quote

    You have to distinguish what comes from culture and what comes from Islam. Islamically a coerced marriage is not valid. It does happen, but if people actually followed the religion it wouldn't.

    I think the crux of what the video is getting at is that a master can dissolve the slave's previous marriage (after an Iddah) and then make them under the "right hands possess" category, negating the need for a marriage. Some have the opinion that marriage contracts dissolve when someone becomes enslaved. I must admit ignorance on the ruling itself but a quick glance at some past shiachat threads shows it's not clear cut. I do think slavery rulings are largely ignored by many modern marja but it does have important consequences with ISIS people running around claiming this is halal and actually practicing it.

    So I guess the two fiqhi questions this video brings up (and why I put in Islamic Laws section) are these:

    1) Does enslavement entail or give the master the right to dissolve previous marriage contracts?

    2) Is consent required for conjugal relations for slaves?

  8. Loved the rant IbnSina and the video was also wonderful Sumayyeh.


    Some more content to add to this discussion:



    Infatuation, limerance, lust, romantic feelings—all of these are mistaken as love, or are viewed as necessary precursors to real love and entering into an intimate relationship with another human being.  But the reality is that these supposed “precursors”—physical attraction, butterflies in the stomach, giddiness, limerance, lust, romantic feelings—are some of the most questionable and least reliable predictors of whether a relationship will succeed or fail.


    Yet this sentimental, heart-heavy, head-light, and likely very ignorant and unrealistic view of “love” is what Madison Avenue, Hollywood, and publishing houses continue to offer in abundance—for the simple reason that it sells so well!  This is the view of love that seemingly most people want to believe. 


    And this is the view of love that feels so good to believe!No matter what we believe or hope love is or how we try to define it, love ultimately will be some form of an ideal. It is either an ideal (or idealized) state of emotion and feeling, or an idealized state of connection, or it is an idealized state or level of behavior (“state” meaning consistent or near constant) and being/personhood, or some combination of some or each of the above.


    Clearly the vast majority of human beings—and the vast majority of those in Hollywood and the publishing industry behind what is offered for consumption and for profit—is the view of love as some idealized state of feeling and physical attraction and psychological connection.


    And all of that is reflective of the average level of differentiation of most people in our society—those who buy what the media sells, and those who create and produce what the media sells and publishes.


    We as a society and a culture generally don’t seem to value substance over style, growth over comfort, and difficulty over the path of least resistance. So what tends to sell really well is what tends to pander to people’s congenital tastes and preferences and naïve hopes and desires, not their higher possibilities and aspirations and deepest wisdom. And so there is this vicious cycle where most people buy and consume what feels and tastes good, which only tends to furthers atrophy and weaken and stultify them, which in turn creates more of a market for more of the same material that promises to have more of the same anesthetizing, stultifying, hypnotizing, dreamy-eye, mind-softening effect.  Et cetera.


  9. I wanted to share another article on this topic:







    From Disney movies to my favorite shows like “The Office” to practically every pop song released, love is constantly sold as an emotion we have before we’re married.  An emotion that, once had, somehow magically stays within a marriage forever.


    I can’t imagine a bigger lie.  And I’m saddened to think about how much those messages bounced around in my head for so long.  And how much I’m sure those messages are bouncing around in other people’s heads as well.


    I think that might be a big part of the reason the divorce rate is so high in this country.  Imagine a whole nation of people constantly chasing the emotions they had when they were dating.  A country of people trying to live a Disney movie.


    That’s a recipe for disastrous marriages; for a country with a 50% divorce rate;  for adultery (the classic attempt to turn the fire back on); for people who do stay together to simply live functional, loveless marriages.


    Well worth the read.


    Does anyone else have experiences to share or thoughts on the issue?


    You can tell when romantic love is possible. Don't marry unless romantic love is possible.


    I think it's harder to tell than you state. Most Muslims have never been in a relationship before so it's hard to pick up on what is important because of lack of experience. Especially with the rules and boundaries in the Islamic courtship process, it is harder to access than the western way where it becomes apparent much more easily.


    I think it also depends a lot on the person. Some people are more complex or picky and others are satisfied and fall in love rather easily. Some people know exactly what they want, others don't and rely on intangibles and feelings alone.

  11. The article up for discussion is this:



    It basically divides the marriage approach to 3 categories:

    1) Love comes after marriage

    2) There must be the potential for love, but not necessarily love itself

    3) Love is a must or it’s a no-go


    Where did you those of you married find yourself and how were your feeling like for your spouse before marriage?


    For those unmarried, which category do you place yourself?



  12. I was wondering if people could give their experiences on being apart of a dual career family where both men and women work.

    Another aspect of this is that many women want to work for reasons other than money and find their own sense of fulfillment in that (i.e not out of need). In fact, it seems like the majority of second generation girls are like this because they are raised to be educated and independent. They find the idea of being a housewife unfulfilling and something that can be simply balanced and supplemented.

    Do you guys and girls find it difficult to balance? Input from both sides appreciated!

  13. One of the problems with my post is obviously defining traditional and what that entails. "Traditional" means something different to different people. I am not interested in coming up with a definition really but I did address specifics. I have not defined them as good or bad a priori either as some here would seem to suggest.


    Also, the article magma is addressing got edited out earlier but I couldn't put it back in for some reason. Here is is again. I think its extreme in some ways but spot on in other ways:


  14. A lot of this post is more personal/cultural over religious.  Although religion should be a primary factor in selecting a spouse, compatibility on others levels are important too.



    A man questioned the Prophet of Islam (s.a.w.s.), “Whom must we marry?”

    He replied, “The suitable (matches).”

    “Who are the suitable matches?”

    The Prophet (s.a.) responded, “Some of the faithfuls are match for others.”


    While there a lot of intangible qualities we look for and experience during a relationship, a lot guys (and girls) look for "traditional" wife/motherly/cultural qualities as well.


    How do you guys feel about the following aspects of a women if she lacks some of these "traditional" qualities?


    1. Career oriented and seeks fulfillment in the work place.

    2. Has no skills or desire to be a traditional housewife. Cannot cook or clean. Has relied on parents/society for such things.

    3. Emotionally cutoff. Does not readily express or communicate emotions. Will keep things bottled up inside or not sure how to express them.

    4. Is not the affectionate/nurturing type. More logical and less sentimental in thinking.

    5. Very independent. Does not depend on husband and others for fulfillment.

    6. Outgoing and active. Does not want to stay at the home. Constantly planning new activities to do.


    Are some of them positives or negatives? How important are the above qualities to you? Input from married people are especially appreciated.

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