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In the Name of God بسم الله


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  1. I am sorry if my post hurts you. I never meant that. Why focusing on Hadith of 12 Ameers when a part from 2 of your Imams, all others never had a chance to become the rulers? How does the Hadith prove their divine appointment alone? Symmetry of 12? Are fundamental article of faith proven by pondering over the symetry or clear NAS? Give this Qur'an to an English Man ask him to summarize in two pages. Would you believe he would mention that this Ummah is supposed to believe & follow 12 Shia Imams in addition to Prophethood? Common brother! I don't ask you to leave your
  2. The Proofs I demanded Has Not Been Supplied Yet! 1. Proof talking about Allah appointing (wab-a’s) or choosing (wa-j-taba) “Non-Prophetic” individuals carrying religious title of “Imams”. 2. Criteria of salvation to believe in the religious station of “Imamah” in addition to Prophethood & Risaalah like below: Righteousness is not that you turn your faces toward the east or the west, but [true] righteousness is [in] one who believes in Allah , the Last Day, the angels, the Book, and the prophets and gives wealth, in spite of love for it, to relatives, orphans, the needy, the
  3. 1. Where in your reply Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) ordered us to believe and follow 12 individuals in his progeny holding the station of Imamah as hold by Shias? 2. On what basis you assume that the 12th Ameer mentioned in the Hadith is Imam Mahdi? On what basis you correlated both Hadiths? 3. How adhering to Ahlebayt in Thaqlain proves Imamah as a separate station to Prophethood for 12 individuals among the progeny of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)? Can't you see "Salmah bin Kahl" to be extremely weak to consider this tradition to prove your dogma?
  4. @Muslim2010 @All Shia brothers What our shia brothers have failed to understand is that I am demanding the proof for the separate “Station of Imamah” in contrast to the station of Prophethood. To call it a separate divine station or making it a separate article of faith of Islam we would need the same NATURE OF PROOF as we’ve for Prophethood in Qur’an & even in Ahaadith. The divine appointment or selection in relation Prophethood or Risaalah are denoted by terminologies like “Wab-a’s”, “Wa-jtaba”, “Arsalna” etc. which has not been found in case of the word “Imamah” in Qur’an nei
  5. As there is no hadith mentioned at the link to justify your false claim certainly i do not oblige to accept it. If you read the content of the link we see the author is justifying Yaqub (عليه السلام) prostrating Yusuf (عليه السلام) based on the commentary of Qur'an by Aqa Puya Ali from the verse of Qur'an itself. (Read the notes) How do you think Aa-taina (a'taa or inaayat in urdu) refer to divie appointment like t? Again it doesn't prove that Allah appoints 12 individuals among the progeny of Prophet Muhammed (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) carrying separate station of Imamah in
  6. @Muslim2010: I am sorry you just seem adamant to just increase number and length of posts to the thread just by being repetitive without being comprehensible to the least. To discover complete answer of my standpoint you may read my reply to brother @Ansur Shiat Ali. This doesn’t prove that they hold an additional non-existing station of Imamah greater than Prophethood when ALLAH himself testifies in Qur’an that among his (as)’s offspring we granted Prophethood & Scripture (that had been sealed after Prophet Muhammed (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) ). Please read this: https://w
  7. All of your focus is to falsely mix the word of "Choose" and "Raise" against the Arabic word of "Ja-a'lna" which over here (2:124) is a literal connotation for "General Leadership / Inspiration" for Mankind. Allah divinely choosing Messengers are connoted with the word of اللّٰہَ یَجۡتَبِیۡ or اللَّهَ اصْطَفَىٰ throughout the Qur'an. Why haven't these words used for divine station of Imamah or Imams or any other non-divine station in Qur'an? This is yet another proof against considering this station as a separate divine station in addition to Prophethood & Messengership. A
  8. What proof do you have for the authenticity of such claim? What's the point of the presence of Infallible Imam when you have to adopt the methodology adopted by Sunnis to rely on "Fallible Narrators" to know the narrations of your infallible Imams?
  9. @Cherub786 That was new and inspiring to me. So "Genuine Khanqahi" system where people do oath of allegiance (baye) to the Sheikhs for their "Tazkiyah" is based on this Esoteric succession? However there is one confusion. I have always belived that any station other than Prophethood & Risaalah is not divinely appointed in nature. It is in a sense that ALLAH has not provided any room for a believer to disagree or cast doubt on these stations. Qur'an also gives us the criteria of salvation to believe in them. However in case of Esoteric succession, you also call it divine
  10. What is our Proof that Imamah is referred as General Leadership & not as a separate Divine Station in Qur'an? PROOF-1 The Fulflillment of the Ibrahim (عليه السلام) Supplication The answer lies in the verse of Qur'an {Surat Al-`Ankabut (29:27)} in which Allah fulfilled Ibrahim (عليه السلام) supplication: And We ordained among his offspring prophethood and the Book (scripture) (29:27) Allah says in another verse: We sent Noah and Abraham, and we granted their descendants PROPHETHOOD AND THE SCRIPTURE. [57:26] Hence THIS concept of LEADERSHIP is exclu
  11. Sorry you didn't quote a single verse which talks about the appointment of individuals or group of individuals appointment by Allah to lead Ummah after Prophet Muhammed (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). The verse 2:124 has only to do with general leadership of prophethood in a sense of inspiration for mankind. The acceptance of Dua of Ibraheem (عليه السلام) is revealed in following verse of Qur'an: And We gave to Him Isaac and Jacob and ordained in his descendants prophethood and scripture. (29:27) This leadership of prophethood and scripture was sealed after Prophet Muhammed (صلى الله
  12. Simiarly who says that the "Polictical Leadership" of Caliphs after Prophet Muhammed (saww) is the divine decree or basic belief or creed of Mainstream Muslims? Why asking for proof for that? Again, you need to point me the verse of Qur'an talking about the appointment of Imams after Prophet Muhammed (saww) as their successors? I don't need your "Qiyas" from the appointment of previous Prophets please. I don't need to prove you the method of appointment as it is not the matter of creed similary like that of the matter of Wilayat-e-Faqeeh for us. Despire that I can
  13. Past appointment of prophets doesn't hold proof for the succession of last prophet since prophethood has been sealed. Where is the verse of Qur'an showing ALLAH appointed anyone as a succession to the Prophet Muhammed (peace be upon him)? OP clearly says that the succession is not possible in prophecy of Prophet Muhammed (عليه السلام) as it was sealed. As political authority, do you need an evidence of Qur'an to consider the leader of Wilayat-e-Faqih to be legtimate enough? Or do you have a proof of your last imam corraborating the leadership system of Wilayat-e-Faqih?
  14. Brother do you have any authentic "12er Shia Tradition" attributed to Ali (May Allah be pleased with him) that could prove: 1. He (may Allah be pleased with him) invited common believers towards his divine appointment by saying He is appointed by Allah as a successor to Prophet Muhammed (saww)? 2. He (may Allah be pleased with him) claimed his divine appointment or succession to Prophet Muhammed (saww) on the basis of Ghadir-e-Khumm's incident?
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