Alamgir

Some events may be agreed upon by both of them but both interpret differently. I use those facts which are agreed upon by all as my arguments. Anyway, time to go, take care, Wassalam.

That's why Iranian people didn't protect him and he had to disappear. Racism. True. We get religion from Bukhari, Malik etc. You get from Majlisi, Saduq, Koleni etc. We both using the same carriage. No one is using infallible imams. Imamat is a mistake on your carriage. Say this once, and we will prove how Majlisi, Saduq and Koleni are nothing compared to our scholars.

Only that part which is unanimously agreed. I prove shias wrong on what's typically the shia stance, sectarian ideas.

Yeah they will refer to Allah and His Prophet, but not their Imams :) Wrong. You get your religion from Koleni, Majlisi and all those who say that 12th Imam disappeared and now buy faith from us.

I never use hadith, I respond to shia members who use hadiths, I use their hadiths in my counter arguments. Racism. 12th Imam was Iranian, Prophet Muhammad a.s.w.s was an Arab.

No, I never use a hadith to make my point. I always ask you to show me an evidence from Quran, but you and your guys fail to do it. They always bring an attachment of hadith to a verse of Quran or verses. But whenever they bring a hadith, I use the same hadith against them as they contradict the shia positions. My basic arguments are always from Quran. Their marjas don't make any mistakes, they are infallible. In the absence of infallible imams, everyone who's doing takfir on the companions and mothers of believers and wearing a rounded turban is infallible.

To discuss something with two of us, you need to have brains, but what you do is use your stories heard from zakirs or ayatullas who we can beat so easily anywhere. By the way, why didn't Imam Mehdi leave an 'in charge' behind him to guide you guys? Did he want you to follow the sunnah of sunnis through which you appointed Imam Khomeni? And let's come back to the topic? Did Imam Khomeni or Imam Khamnei or ayatullas cut their body parts and slap in their faces during mourning the deaths of Imams? Do your ayatullas and zakirs only tell you to do things and don't do themselves?

Parents of the Prophet have an excuse that there was no Islam. Father of Imam Ali has no excuse, he disbelieved even after Islam came. The problem of 'wow' :)

Because didn't qualify to accompany the Prophet a.s.w.s during emigrating. Prophet Muhammad a.s.w.s took the most faithful friend of his along called Abu Bakar. It means Ali was not required in the battlefield. He was left in Madinah perhaps because he was ill or something, Allah knows the best. Secondly Harun a.s.w.s didn't become the Khalifah after Muhammad a.s.w.s, so I'm using this hadith against you now that Ali couldn't become Khalifah after the Prophet, happy? Want to use this hadith again? :) Show me that order in Quran. Messenger of Allah knew better. But I don't believe in any of those paper gates of Khaiber that Imam Ali blew up in a go. His right of khilafah expired in 24 years, as he didn't fight Abu Bakar, Umar, Uthman for it. When he tried to grab it by force, he had to face bitter opposition that he couldn't win. And no, he was not a Khalifah according to me. A khalifah doesn't kill his own brethren, he doesn't shed blood of the innocent. Abu Bakar fought the false prophet and his people, Abu Bakar fought those who apostated, and those who refused to pay zakaat. Your Imam fought those who refused to accept him as the khalifah. Your imam didn't fight those who were murderers, who were rebels of Islam. In 7th century Arabia, they didn't ride ants and spiders. Your imam Ali couldn't settle the issues in 5 years and you talk about few days. Muawiyah hadn't waged any war, Ali waged a war on Muawiyah, Ali was the aggressor in case of Siffeen (and Jamal also). If Muawiyah hadn't defended Syria, shias of Ali would have turned the whole Islamic khilafah into a grave worshipping shrine. So now you don't believe in Allah? You only believe in Ali?

This is because Ali didn't have any leading position, even the Prophet Muhammad a.s.w.s never gave him any leading position, or any important office to run the affairs of the state. That's why Ali stayed at home, and I don't think it was only Ali who was busy making arrangements for the funeral. There must be many people. More important was to take the control of the affairs, you guys don't understand because Allah didn't give any khilafah to your imams, so you have no idea how a state is run. Khilafah is not about fighting and killing people in wars like Jamal and Siffeen. Anyway, since after the demise of the Prophet of Islam, it was a great probability that the Jews, Romans and Pagans would strike the state of Madinah, or the probability that people would fight each other for power, or tribal civil war could have started, the way it started after the killing of Uthman. Ali was inexperienced and inefficient, so he couldn't handle the situation after the killing of Uthman. Abu Bakar and Umar were great men, there was no match of their wisdom and capabilities with those of Ali. So they did handle the situation successfully and the elders of the companions elected Abu Bakar unanimously. Allah gave honour to Abu Bakar, and Allah gave jealousy and failures to you. Your 5 year old Imam Mehdi didn't appoint anyone before getting disappeared, perhaps he followed the Sunnah of the Prophet of Islam? That's why clever shias made Khomeni their imam. When she plotted against the Prophet, Allah reprimanded her. But when she plotted against your Imam, Allah didn't reprimand her, instead Allah made her the Mother of Believers until the last hour. So she had an authority over all the believers including your first Imam. Allah didn't give any such status to your first Imam in Quran. If the Mother of Believers held a position against the rebels, Ali should have stood on her side instead of fighting her in Jamal. Because of that disrespect towards the Mother of Believers, Allah never granted Ali with success later on. He lost in Siffeen and he kept losing, his own partisans left him and then he was killed by his own people, by an ex-shia called Ibn Muljim. Allah included Ayesha a.s.w.s to the Mothers of Believers, and Allah didn't take this status back from her. She will remain the Mother of all Believers for as long as Quran is on the face of earth. Those who do not accept Ayesha a.s.w.s as the Mother of Believers are those who reject the decision of Allah and thus they reject Quran and get out of the fold of Islam. Allah never called Ali as an infallible imam directly or indirectly in His Book, the way He called the wives of the Prophet, Mothers of Believers.

Bad news for Imam Hassan and Imam Zainul Abidin (and others) as they deviated from the path of Ali ibn Abi Talib by not fighting Muawiyah and Yazid.

After marriage, she was responsibility of her husband, she lived in the house of Ali. And I said that Abu Bakar didn't keep Fadak with himself, he didn't need it by the way, he was the caliph of Islam. Abu Bakar, Umar, Uthman gave lots of money to your imams, even Muawiyah gave lots of money to Hasan and Husain, why it's not enough for you? Why so much greed?

The family of the Prophet a.s.w.s (his wives) never complained about anything, they didn't have any greed for properties or wealth. Fatimah is from the family of Ali, why don't you guys use your heads?

Quran doesn't give any imamah or khilafah to your imams but you still want it. According to Quran, khilafah is not for your imams, because khilafah is given to people followed by security and peace, while your imams lived in fears and eleven of them were killed. There are more than 20 verses about 'mutah' in Quran, and everywhere it's meanings are different from what you get. Hasan united the Ummah, Ali and Husain divided it. Zainul Abidin, Jafar were also good persons. Let's say Abu Bakar made a mistake, or he intentionally deprived Fatimah of her right, does it mean Abu Bakar kept Fadak for himself? If not then just leave. Stop making it an issue. Abu Bakar, Umar, Uthman, even Muawiyah gave lots of money to your imams, be satisfied with it.

Why are your imams so much into properties and wealth? Are they into dunya and not aakhirah? Did the Prophet Muhammad a.s.w.s spend a luxurious life? Then why this greed for Fadak and the rest? If Fadak was given away in charity then what's wrong? Weren't your imams given lots of money by the caliphs of Islam?