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In the Name of God بسم الله


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  1. Haha
    Wisdom007 got a reaction from Muslim2010 in Were 3 Caliphs After The Prophet Capable Leaders?   
    "Sunni brothers please quote the verse of Quran which states that the leader / imam / caliph (successor) after the prophet saww is chosen by the people (instead of Allah swt)? I await it."
    Please quote the verse of the quran which states that the leader/imam/caliph (successor) after an imam (12th) is chosen by the people (instead of Allah swt)? I await :)
  2. Like
    Wisdom007 got a reaction from Shah Khan in Treatment of Bibi Fatima (sa) by the Caliphs   
    There is no unauthentic Hadith about the issue in HADITH books.......can’t say same for history books.
    The point is history books are being used as authentic evidences where as the hadith being used for this issue doesnt really help especially the way you want it portrayed.
    That is all.
  3. Like
    Wisdom007 got a reaction from Shah Khan in Treatment of Bibi Fatima (sa) by the Caliphs   
    Bro shiaman 
    The word ANGER is only mentioned in the Hadith transmitted from Hazrat Aisha ra. It is not mentioned in the Hadith narrated from other companions like Hazrat Abu Huraira, Hazrat Um Hani, etc.
    Further the hadith narrated from Hazrat Aisha ra is of two types, one type mentions the word “anger” while the other type does not mention “anger”. The hadith which mention the word “anger” are all narrated by Ibn Shahab Zehri [well known for his idraaj of statements].
  4. Haha
    Wisdom007 got a reaction from Abu Nur in Treatment of Bibi Fatima (sa) by the Caliphs   
    Bro shiaman 
    The word ANGER is only mentioned in the Hadith transmitted from Hazrat Aisha ra. It is not mentioned in the Hadith narrated from other companions like Hazrat Abu Huraira, Hazrat Um Hani, etc.
    Further the hadith narrated from Hazrat Aisha ra is of two types, one type mentions the word “anger” while the other type does not mention “anger”. The hadith which mention the word “anger” are all narrated by Ibn Shahab Zehri [well known for his idraaj of statements].
  5. Like
    Wisdom007 reacted to Doctor Tareen in Sahaba part Two   
    Lastly we analyze in detail what Umar RA said and what was the condition of the Prophet SAW. Here are facts one can easily gather if read all the authentic narrations about the incidence.

        1) Almost in every narration it is clearly mentioned by the first narrator (Mostly Ibn e Abbas RA) that Prophet SAW became severely ill on thursday. Here are the words of Ibne Abbas who first admits himself that Prophet SAW became seriously deteriorated and ill on thursday.
    "On Thursday the illness of Allah's Apostle was aggravated" 
        Sahih Bukhari 
    "The ailment of Allah's Apostle became worse (on Thursday) " says another narration
    Narrated ibne abbas. "The illness of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) took a serious turn (on this day)"
    Ibn Abbas reported: "When Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) was about to leave this world"  
    Infact in every narration the main Narrator himself first admits and makes an explicit statement that "That thursday Prophet SAW got very ill, deteriorated and his condition was aggravated and he was about to die or pass away".
        Now lets see in all those Narrations what did Umar bin Khattab RA said.
     ¡) Umar said, 'The Prophet is seriously ill, and we have got Allah's Book with us and that is sufficient for us.'
    ¡¡) Umar said," Prophet SAW is deeply afflicted with pain, we have book of Allah, It is sufficient for us".

     In almost all narrations we see that the first part of Umar Farooq RA statement was exactly what the narrator reported himself in his report. Which is that Prophet SAW was seriously ill, deeply afflicted with pain, has deteriorated. So both comfirm the same that prophet SAW was indeed very ill and his condition was grave. So the first part of the statement made by Umar Farooq RA was absolutly true. 
    Now i am at loss to see when my Shia brothers claimed that Umar Farooq RA called Prophet Crazy ??? Or Umar Farooq RA said that Prophet SAW was talking non sense or he said Prophet SAW has become insane. We can see that Ibne Abbas specifically mentioned the exact words of Umar Farooq RA. His words were only pointing towards the fact how seriously ill Prophet SAW was and that was concerning as Ibne Abbas reported that we thought he was about to die. Now who ever made false accusations against Umar Farooq RS should worry about himself as false allegations carry huge burden of sin.
    2) Lets see the second part of Umar RA statement.
        " We have book of Allah with us, it is sufficient for us"
    I am again at loss why this statement could cause so much hate against Umar RA while he stated the truth which Prophet  SAW advised earlier. That i am leaving 2 things among you. 1 is Quran, hold on to it and you will not go Astray. Then my Ahlelbayt, beware of their rights.
        This narration is on the tip of the tongue of every lover of Ahlelbayt. But why do they seem to forget that when Umar RA says exactly the same what Prophet said before. Hold on to the book and you will not go astray. Umar Farooq RA repeated there what Prophet SAW said earlier. We have the book of Allah and that is sufficient for us. Well that is sufficient for us because Prophet SAW said so not why Umar RA is saying so. Why is Umar RA facing such disrespect among Prophet SAW followers while he said not a single word in addition to or less than what Prophet SAW said himself ?
        3) I am at loss to see any of the narrations where Narrator Ibn e Abbas RA ever said that Umar Farooq RA prevented the provision of Pen n Paper. His statement is clearly mentioned with his exact words but no where i could see any narrator saying, Umar Farooq RA stoped, probihited or himself opposed the provision of pen n paper. He is quoted only for his statement and his presence there. There were others who argued based on Umar RA statment and opposed provision of pen n paper as a result. See the few narrations which were posted in this forum by a shia brother when i searched.
        Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:
        When Allah's Apostle was on his death-bed and in the house there were some people among whom was 'Umar bin Al-Khattab, the Prophet said, "Come, let me write for you a statement after which you will not go astray." 'Umar said, "The Prophet is seriously ill and you have the Qur'an; so the Book of Allah is enough for us." The people present in the house differed and quarrelled. Some said "Go near so that the Prophet may write for you a statement after which you will not go astray," while the others said as Umar said. When they caused a hue and cry before the Prophet, Allah's Apostle said, "Go away!" Narrated 'Ubaidullah: Ibn 'Abbas used to say, "It was very unfortunate that Allah's Apostle was prevented from writing that statement for them because of their disagreement and noise."
        Narrated 'Ubaidullah bin 'Abdullah:
        Ibn 'Abbas said, "When the ailment of the Prophet became worse, he said, 'Bring for me (writing) paper and I will write for you a statement after which you will not go astray.' But 'Umar said, 'The Prophet is seriously ill, and we have got Allah's Book with us and that is sufficient for us.' But the companions of the Prophet differed about this and there was a hue and cry. On that the Prophet said to them, 'Go away. It is not right that you should quarrel in front of me." Ibn 'Abbas came out saying, "It was most unfortunate that Allah's Apostle was prevented from writing that statement for them because of their disagreement and noise.

        Sa'id b. Jubair reported that Ibn 'Abbas said: Thursday, (and then said): What is this Thursday? He then wept so much that his tears moistened the pebbles. I said: Ibn 'Abbas, what is (significant) about Thursday? He (Ibn 'Abbas) said: The illness of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) took a serious turn (on this day), and he said: Come to me, so that I should write for you a document that you may not go astray after me. They (the Companions around him) disputed, and it is not right to dispute in the presence of the Apostle. They said: How is he (Allah's Apostle)? Has he lost his consciousness? Try to learn from him (this point). He (the Holy Prophet) said: Leave me. I am better in the state . I make a will about three things: Turn out the polytheists from the territory of Arabia; show hospitality to the (foreign) delegations as I used to show them hospitality. He (the narrator) said: He (Ibn Abbas) kept silent on the third point, or he (the narrator) said: But I forgot that.

    So we see that Umar RA statement is separate and is specifically mentioned by the narrator which includes no words suggesting Prophet SAW was Crazy or Non sense or Insane. Neither it is by any means reported that he prevented others to provide pen n paper. Rather they (Others not Umar RA) started argument in front of the Prophet SAW and it became noisy so Prophet SAW asked everyone to leave. What Umar RA said was just an observation by looking at Prophets condition which is indisputable, as he was really very ill and then by saying that a document which will prevent all going astray, one can understand it will certainly be Quran what else. How can it be anything other than Quran and Prophet SAW said that earlier. Rather Umar RA reminded everyone of Prophets earlier announcement their that We have the Quran the final document holding on to which we will never go astray. 
    I tried hard to see anything objectionable said by Umar Farooq RA and i failed badly whenever i look at what he said exactly. 
        3) Last part of this whole discussion is whether Prophet was in a condition where he could really write some thing or not. Was he sick and mentally not fully aware or was he confused/disoriented ?
        By reading the whole narration with all its versions we analyze that the difference among companions was on the basis that if Prophet SAW was well oriented and not confused or in a state of a delirium. This is a medical term we use when we come across a sick person who is ill enough that his mental awareness is affected and he is unable to make decisions or sound judgements. Such person is in a state of confusion and this can happen in any severe infection or illness.  We call it delirium. Delirium is a temporary illness related state where one can get irritable, confused, drowsy, impaired memory, restlessness, agitation, in some cases hallucinations. This is a temporary state and it tends to improve with treatment of illness. It can be fluctuating which means person can be in and out of confusion.
        Now when i analyze the event, i am to believe that companions suspected Prophet SAW was in a state of delirium. The signs i see as a Medical Professional are, Severe illness, Restlessness, Irritability, Confusion, Drowsiness. I do not see any thing suggestive of hallucination in the reports.
        I understand that most of my friends will have less problem with Prophet SAW having a severe illness, restlessness, irritability but they are likely to refuse to accept the fact that Prophet could be confused and drowsy. Well the reason i found he was confused at the time was that he was asking for a pen n paper to write something but he wouldnt have to write it himself. This was odd as he would ask his compnanions to write as he did everytime he received revelation. I am not getting in to discussion whether Prophet could write or not or whats the meaning of Ummi. But he would certainly not have writen himself. He just had to say it and ask companions to write. So saying that he wishes to write himself something suggests a surprising behavior which was not normal. That was clearly what made companions worried. To me it is not surprising to see a state of confusion.
    Then we see that he never wrote anything after even though he advised companions regarding expelling Pagans from Hijaz and how to treat the foreign delegations with gifts etc. This also suggests he was in and out of confusion. Thats perfectly understandable. Its intermittent confusion. So  there was no written document and he never asked again for it when he later was in a better form and was giving above mentioned instructions. He did not remind others to bring pen n paper again. That it self proves there was nothing significant or he would gave done it later. Or may be it was the same as he instructed about expelling pagans from Hijaz and etc
    Few more aspects can further be discussed once i see responses to above explanations.
    If any of my friends disagree with what i said, i am happy to see the reasons. But disagreement has to be logical. I must say changing positions and retracting from earlier narrative can help one have a little escape for time being but it will never hide the truth. Umar Farooq RA carries no burden of what he said. Prophet SAW was seriously ill, confused, irritable, restless and drowsy as reported. Who ever disagreed had valid points on both sides. But it was unfortunate as prophet SAW was not comfortable and was dustrssed with ilness already and asked everyone to leave. His condition improved later in 3 days and he gave few instructions by himself. There is nothing factual to support the claims made earlier in the post by my friends.
    Kind Regards
  6. Like
    Wisdom007 reacted to Doctor Tareen in Sahaba part Two   
    Let me write my points briefly and we analyse how you weakly you addressed each of them.
        1) It was claimed by all my friends that Prophet SAW was about to announce a successor on thrusday, that is proven false. 
        I have not seen a single logical argument to support that claim. Rather most of brothers initially claimed that it was announcement of successor but later most have retracted from the position and resorted to puting forward further quotations of previous occasions where they had similar claims like Ghadeer Khum etc but non seem to admit or recognize that they were wrong to make a conclusion in the first place saying Prophet SAW was to announce Maula Alis Khilafat on Thrusday as a Waseeah. 
        So lets admit that no one knows what was the intention or supposed Waseeah and let not one make false assumptions.
        2) Now Brother Shiaman comes up with another stance that it was actually an advice for Umar Farooq RA and his group only and rest of the people didnt need any such advice. So Peophet SAW didnt gave any instructions after as there was no need. What an irony my friends. The whole narrative is being demolished in just a sentence and a totally new narrative comes in now that it was not a Waseeah for whole Ummah or final announcement of Maula Ali's caliphate or some very important guideline to prevent the umaah from going ASTRAY, but just a last piece of advice for Farooq e Azam RA who didnt take it and was unlucky at the end. I believe my Shia brothers first have to agree on one stance and adapt a nonshifting position before level any allegations. Please refer back to what Prophet SAW said and what my Shia brothers claim in the start. When we do not have answers and we are wrong in our conclusions we resort to shifting our stances and changing our positions. That certainly never helps
        Its very simple and a straight forward fact. Prophet SAW wished to do Waseeah, He had 3 more days to do so, write it down but he never did so. This simple fact causes main trouble to the people who wish to build a castle on weak grounds and end up with collapsed building.
        3) Brother Shiaman said Prophet SAW kicked out Umar Farooq RA only and rest of them stayed. May be it was my brother wish but fact is every one was asked to leave the room of Prophet SAW and no one of them stayed. Just another hollow claim and building another castle on weak grounds will again not help. 
        The argument was between Sahaba. No one addressed to Prophet SAW but they differed on this among themselves and argument became distressing so Prophets SAW got irritated as he was already sick that day. So he asked everyone to leave. Including the group who were in favour of providing paper and pen. So please do not distort the facts here. Or there will be more trouble then after assuming that Maula ALI RA stayed as he also then never provided paper and pen as Prophet SAW ordered. Rather in not doing so he did what Umar RA advised earlier. Or if he did, then where is the written waseeah and where is the proof that he did ? To prove that ALI ra was in favour of providing paper and pen one has no choice but to believe that he was also asked to leave or he would have provided it if he had stayed and others left. If you are inclined to believe that he was not asked (kicked out like others) to leave then you are stuck with more prounced trouble that he certainly couldnt provide the pen n paper either and we have not received any Waseeah after.
    Inshort if he left he might have been in favour of providing paper n pen, if he didnt then he is equally responsible for not providing it and will the burden or your curses.
    So fact is that every one was asked to leave(kicked out according to my friend Shiaman) and please do not imagine scenarios according to your own wishes. These excuses do no good to either party in duscussion.
        4) Some mentioned about Prophet SAW saying earlier in front of every one that i am leaving behind Quran and my Ahel Bayt, you hold on to both and you will never go Astray. Regardless of the fact what actual narration was, i ask what was then left to make another waseeah in writing when he already made (unwritten) clear announcement befor at Arafat or Khum(which ever is your belief) ? He said it and its written by 100s of thouands and being shared on this very forum by every Shia brother and on many other forums. There was nothing left to say on thyrsday. Yes except may be an advice for Umar RA as my brother claimed. Fact is that we wish to achieve something here and that is to find some ground to blame Umar Farooq RA. Unfortunately what ever way you look at this incidence, no where one can justify what my dear Shia brothers had concluded earlier. I hope my points will enlighten everyone and atleast show everyone another and a true perspective and make every one realize that things are not the way they are narrated n projected by the scholars.

        5) Coming to the last point which i am sure will be a total new aspect of this incidence for my friends who so far have been blidly listening and believing deceiving scholars. That is, "was it right to prevent provision of paper n pen when Peophet SAW was sick" ?  What was the reason behind ? What was Prophet condition at the time ? I will post this separately so we can talk separately about this as it may trigger alot of responces from the brothers i know. So i will respond to queries regarding this particular part of the incidence separately.
    Kind Regards
  7. Haha
    Wisdom007 reacted to yam_110 in Treatment of Bibi Fatima (sa) by the Caliphs   
    Commiserations to the Muslims ummah  on the death anniversary of Bibi Fatima (sa).
    Bibi Fatima (sa) was a lady like no other in Islam. She was a lady of many virtues. Through a deep study of the life of Bibi Fatima Zehra (sa), one can slightly understand her exalted human personality. She is similar to her father, Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in terms of her divine and humane character. Her similarity to her father is a truth that can be easily understood through her father's sayings about her. As the narrator quotes, Holy Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) came out while holding the hand of Lady Fatimah Zahra (pbuh) in his hand. He said:
    "(For) him, who does not know her, she is Fatimah, the daughter of Muhammad, she is a part of me, she is my soul, which is (located) between my two sides. Certainly, him who harms her has harmed me; and him who harms me has indeed harmed Allah."
    It is no denying that the Prophet loved Bibi Fatima (sa) and she held a very special place for him. The behavior of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) toward his daughter Bibi Fatima Al-Zahra (sa) was special. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) showed unique respect to his dear daughter; whenever Fatima Al-Zahra (sa) came to see him. For instance, there is a famous hadith from Aisha which reads: “I didn’t see a person more similar to the Prophet (pbuh) than Fatima (as) who looked like him in appearance, face, brightness, behavior and manners. When Fatima (as) came to see the Prophet (pbuh), he got to his feet and advanced toward her enthusiastically.” In some hadiths from the same narrator [Aisha] we read: “He kissed Hazrat Fatima (as), took her hand, and invited her to sit in his place.” This reveals the high status of Hazrat Fatima (as).
    The treatment of Bibi Fatima (sa) by the first 2 caliphs is a very shameful event in the history of Islam. Now, let us see how the Muslim caliphs treated her just days after the death of the Prophet (pbuh).
    1st Caliph:
    Fadak which was in Bibi Fatima Zehra's (sa) possession was taken away from her and she had to fight for her right which again was denied to her. When she went to ask for Fadak which was rightfully hers to be returned to her; she had to wait among-st the people to be heard and when heard, she was insulted. Compare this to the respect she had during the time of the Prophet makes you wonder if these so called protectors of Islam really had been following the sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh).
    What should surprise any Muslim the most is the following statement by Abu Bakr:
    “After the death (of Rasulullah), Fatima raised the issue of Fadak that he (the Prophet) had granted it to her, Abu Bakr said: ‘…I don’t know if you are telling the truth, and I can’t judge according to it (your claim).’ Then Umm Ayman and a male servant testified for her. Abu Bakr said: ‘bring forth another witness whose word is acceptable’.
    Tafseer Kabeer, Volume 10 page 506
    Abdullah bin Zubair narrated from his father that whenever Ayesha mentioned Fatima the daughter of the Prophet, she used to say: ‘I never saw someone more truthful than her apart from the one that produced her (her father).’
     Al-Mustadrak al-Hakim, Vol. 3, page 160 & 161
    [Imam Al-HakIm said: ‘Sahih according to Muslim’s condition’ while Imam Dhahabi stated: ‘According to Muslim’s condition’.]
    Given that the lady, whose truthfulness is being vouched for in the Quran and hadith, was told that her words were not credible and she was asked to produce witnesses. It is safe to conclude that doubting Bibi Zehra's (sa) words is no less than doubting the Quran. What becomes of a person who doubts the Quran?
    2nd Caliph:
    Now let's look at how Umar treated Bibi Zehra after the death of Prophet (pbuh).
    Umar went to Bibi Fatimah's house and said:
    "O’ daughter of the Prophet! I didn’t love anyone as much as I loved your father, nor anyone after him is more loving to me as you are. But I swear by Allah that if these people assemble here with you, then this love of mine would not prevent me from setting your house on fire."
    Sunni references:
    - History of Tabari, in the events of the year 11 AH
    - al-Imamah wa al-Siyasah by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, beginning of the book, and pp 19-20
    - Izalatul Khilafa, by Shah Waliullah Muhaddith Dehlavi, v2, p362
    - Iqd al-Farid, by Ibn Abd Rabbah al-Malik, v2, chapter of Saqifah
    Also it is reported that:
    Umar said to Fatimah (who was behind the door of her house): "I know that the Prophet of God did not love any one more than you, but this will not stop me to carry out my decision. If these people stay in your house, I will burn the door in front of you."
    Sunni reference: Kanz al-Ummal, v3, p140
    In fact Shibli Numani himself testifies the above event in the following words:
    "From Umar’s irritable and peevish temperament such an action on his part was not improbable."
    Sunni reference: al-Faruq, by Shibli Numani, p44
    It is also reported that:
    Abu Bakr said (on his death bed): "I wish I had not searched for Fatimah’s house, and had not sent men to harass her, though it would have caused a war if her house would have continued to be used as a shelter."
    Sunni references:
    - History of Ya’qubi, v2, pp 115-116
    - Ansab Ashraf, by al-Baladhuri, v1, pp 582,586
    The revered Sunni scholar, Abu Muhammad Abdullah Ibn Muslim Ibn Qutaybah Daynuri in his history of Caliphs known as "al-Imamah wa al- Siyasah”reported:
    Umar asked for wood, and told those people inside the house: "I swear by Allah who has my soul in his hand, that if you do not come out, I will burn the house.” Someone told Umar that Fatimah was inside the house. Umar said: "So what! It doesn’t matter to me who is in the house.”
    Sunni reference: al-Imamah wa al-Siyasah by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, pp 3,19-20
    Another Sunni historian, al-Baladhuri, reported that:
    Abu Bakr asked ‘Ali to support him, but ‘Ali refused, then Umar went toward the ‘Ali’s house with a burning torch. At the door he met Fatimah who said to him: "Do you intend to burn the door of my house?”Umar said: "Yes, because this act will strengthen the faith brought to us by your father."
    Sunni reference: al-Ansab Ashraf, by al-Baladhuri, v1, pp 582,586
    Also Jouhari in his book said: "Umar and a few Muslims went to the house of Fatimah to burn it down and to burn those who were in opposition.” Ibn Shahna said the same statement adding "to burn the house and inhabitants".
    Remember, the famous hadith of the Prophet about whoever hurts Bibi Fatima (sa):
    "Fatimah is a part of me. Whoever makes her angry, makes me angry."
    Sunni references:
    - Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English, v5, Traditions #61 and #111
    - Sahih Muslim, section of virtues of Fatimah, v4, pp 1904-5
    Ibn Qutaybah in al Imamah wa al Siyasa page 14 records that:
    “Fatima said ‘When I meet my father the Prophet (s), then I shall complain about the both of you (Abu Bakr and Umar), and said to Abu Bakr ‘By Allah I shall curse you after every Salat”.
     Al-Imamah wa al-Siyasa, Vol. 1, Page 14
    So logical conclusion from the above traditions is that Bibi Fatima (sa) was treated unjustly, and that she was angry at Abu Bakr and Umar, which follows Allah and His prophet are angry at them according the above tradition in Sahih al-Bukhari.
  8. Haha
    Wisdom007 reacted to Shah Khan in Wahhabism:The root of terrorism   
    Yeah I read about Wahhabi History. They were backed up by British.
    JazaakAllah Brother for Love and Respect . I know the Hadith Brother. Mainstream Sunnis refer this Hadith and say Najd is in Iraq.

    And you know what the most Interesting part is? The Sunni Muslim Scholar you gave above, His name is Maulana Ishaq Bhatti Faisalabadi رحمه الله (Allah have Mercy upon Him) and he Himself Praise Shaikh-ul-Islam Taqi-ud-Deen Ahmad ibn Taymiyyah Hanbali رحمه الله (Allah have Mercy upon Him) & Shaikh-ul-Islam Muhammad Bin Abdul Wahaab Tameemi Hanbali رحمه الله (Allah have Mercy upon Him)  . 
  9. Haha
    Wisdom007 reacted to Ashvazdanghe in Wahhabism:The root of terrorism   
    Mu’awiya s intention from sunni Islam view (Eng sub)
    @Shah Khan brother did you know that Hadith about Najd & horns of Satan just came in Sunni Islam sources & in shia hadiths it doesn’t exist . Sorry for your disturbing by mentioning your masters but their doctrine causes current conflict between Wahabist country of KSA & already Malaysia that was famous for its religion tolerance nowadays becomes a Wahabi country day to day that their first act was banning of practicing of shia Islam at Malaysia by influence of Zakir Naik & KSA on them & currently Pakistan is not a safe place for shia muslims.
  10. Haha
    Wisdom007 reacted to Mohammed-Mehdi in I am Only Trying Shia Islam only for 6 Months.   
    @Shah Khan I do not know if you watched this great movie before. The events in the movie are accepted by both Shia and Sunni as true. There is a lot more evidence ofcourse.
    Also, if you haven't then consider reading " And then I was guided " or even better studying it. And the great thing is, whenever you have questions you can come here and ask.

    You can also find this movie in other sources
  11. Haha
    Wisdom007 reacted to 3wliya_maryam in I am Only Trying Shia Islam only for 6 Months.   
    Insha Allah you'll realise just how much Shi'sm makes much more sense.
    Every person who has converted to Shia Islam realised the truth
  12. Haha
    Wisdom007 reacted to Ashvazdanghe in Sahaba part Two   
    my opinion is that there were trustful & high ranking from every tribe & region .they attend there because of greatness of prophet (pbu) so they don't  miss this great fortune by speedy separation from prophet (pbu) that Khum was the last point that all of gather together in his presence so prophet by order of Allah announced the most important   message at that point as last will of Allah & him   in order to  remains forever for all people.
  13. Confused
    Wisdom007 reacted to Ashvazdanghe in Sahaba part Two   
    Salam before separting all people from each other  all people & tribes even Makkah were present in Khum because it was their last visit to prophet (pbu) so they want mximum benefit of being with prophet (pbu) until last moment
  14. Confused
    Wisdom007 reacted to Ashvazdanghe in Sahaba part Two   
    Salam it was at Khum that command of Allah revealed to prophet (pbu) to announce Imamate of Imam Ali (as) although at Arafat based on Sunni sources it was announced for a little group of people but at Khum it is announced for everybody.
  15. Like
    Wisdom007 reacted to Doctor Tareen in Sahaba part Two   
    So you believe there were thousands he stopped at Khum ? So do you know how many were in Arafat at last sermon ? Over a 100,000. He didnt make any annoucemnet there so Muslims who came from every corner would have heard it loud and clear. From Yemen, Taif, Basra, Syria and not just for people of Madeena. To understand it better i suggest we should look at the map to see where Khum is (on the way from Makkah to Madeena ) between Makkah and Madeena. Then we should know that non else was accompanying Prophet SAW but people from Madeena on there way back to madeena. Not even people of Makkah were present my friend. 
    That is because you base your argument on no of people present at Khum. Every one was there at Arafat to see and hear Prophet last sermon. I leave a question for you here.
  16. Like
    Wisdom007 reacted to baseball_fan_313 in Wahhabism:The root of terrorism   
    @Shah Khan I don't see how you could say this isn't from Ibn Taymiyyah. He gave verdicts that permitted the killing of rafidha (shia). The followers of Ibn Abdul-Wahab attacked the sunni ottoman empire, put a siege against the people of Mecca who they labled as "mushrikun", raided Ahsa and Karbala. Ibn Abdul-Wahab was the first to make an alliance with the saudi royal family which is why Saudi religious establishment is still controlled by the descendants of Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahab. Ottoman scholars also called the wahabis "khawarij". Its pretty clearly the same ideology when you study their history. 
  17. Confused
    Wisdom007 reacted to Ashvazdanghe in Wahhabism:The root of terrorism   
    Wahhabism :The school of Ibn Taymiyyah-Root of Terrorism
    ISIS :sex slaves
    ISIS :Islamic extremism
  18. Like
    Wisdom007 reacted to Doctor Tareen in Does The Quran Disrespect The Sahaba?   
    My friend, its right that Quran speaks highly about Sahaba Kiraam RA. Best among them are Muhajireen. Best among Muhajireen are Assabiqoon al Awaloon. Best among them are who participated in Badar and other battles along side Prophet SAW. We believe the best of all are the 4 Caliphs May Allah be pleased with them all. 
  19. Like
    Wisdom007 reacted to Doctor Tareen in Sahaba part Two   
    In one post you have raised so many different points rather allegations my friend   If you wish to know about an issue lets bring in one by one. I will only try to explain it my way. You can disagree if you are not satisfied. We  keep it an academic discussion and not emotional. I would like to say the first thing you mentioned is Ghadeer. I do not see any strong evidence that it was by any means an announcement of an Imam or a Successor. I do agree that that at Khum Prophet SAW did say,'Man Kunto Maula, Fa Ali o Maula'. I have not come across any Ahl e Sunna who refuses to accept this status for Maula Ali RA. He is Maula of every believer as declared by Prophet SAW.
  20. Haha
    Wisdom007 reacted to abuhaydar in Sahaba part Two   
    a sunni will give you different answers then a shia..
    a sahaba cant be anyone.. it is someone who was close to the prophet.. many claim to be the sahaba such as the famous liar who has over 5000 hadiths in sunni books abu hurraira.. but shias have a more selective list. 
    and @Doctor Tareen
    im not sure you know about Ghadir.. but ghadir even in sunni books proves that the prophet appointed a successor.. sadly on the day of his death the worldy gains temptation got to abu bakr and omar and they chose to ignore his wish.. this along with appointing khalid bin waleed and helping other enemies of the prophet rise to great ranks in the caliphate show they were unfit to rule. Imam Ali a.s obviously had a problem with them. He wrote it in his book. Imam Ali the one born in the kaaba raised by his cousin the prophet, married his daughter, and the best warrior, had a problem with the caliphate going to abu bakr.. that tells you something.. who was abu bakr to argue with Ali? would Ali have let mouawiya and yazid reach the levels of power that they did? 
    do you know about abu bakr's army commander khalid bin waleed unlawful killing of a man just to marry his wife in the same day? even in sunni books there are hadith about how the prophet disliked khalid. 
  21. Like
    Wisdom007 reacted to Doctor Tareen in Sahaba part Two   
    Thanks for sharing the details of arguments. I will make a few points. If any one has any objection i am happy to respond.
    Claiming that Prophet SAW was to make an announcement of his successor is baseless. How can any one assume what he wanted to say or about to say when he did not say anything ? Any one can assume anything. It is totally a wrong conclusion that Prophet SAW was to announce a successor. So if anyone claims that it was an announcement of a successor then i would ask for the evidence, on which basis any one makes such a claim. Prophet SAW asked to write something or make some announcement which will ensure no one goes astray after he passes away. Well i wish to ask, that Prophet SAW could have just said it and any one could write it there or later. I believe that Maula Ali pak was there as well. So even if Pen or paper was not provided by any one(we assume) that should not stop Prophet SAW from making an announcement anyways. We should remind our selves that every word of Prophet’s tongue has been transmitted to us by the listeners. Even when Prophet SAW stayed quite we have that matter reported. Why he could not just have said it as people around carried excellent memories to narrate it word by word including Maula Ali Pak RA ? Prophet SAW do not speak but with the order of Allah as we all believe. How come he does not make that (supposed) announcement and fulfil his duty rather he expels every from his room. Are we saying that because of some one not agreeing to provide Pen and paper, Prophet SAW gives up the idea and do not make an announcement which surely would have been an order of Allah especially if it was announcement of successor or even writing a will before death. Will it not mount to an insult to the Prophet SAW that, out of his anger he expels every one and does not fulfil his duty ? How come he gives up the idea of making Waseeah which will ensure that no one goes astray ? Why did he not expel the one who stopped provision of pen and paper but expelled everyone instead ? Does this not mean that he was upset with all of them ? We believe he would fulfil his duties and he would never let his personal emotions overcome his responsibilities. He could simply have left it all in his writing (if anyone believes he could write) or asked any one to write. I am sure companions would have understood what was written by Prophet SAW.  Saying that Prophet gave up wrinting Waseeah because he was made doubtful by the companion is an ignorance. See... Prophet SAW was called magician, Insane, Poet and Allah know what not, but he never stoped from conveying ALLAHs messages. This is totally a wrong conclusion and interpretation. Prophet will never stop from doing what is ordered by Allah. We have to accept that it was something not from Allah or Prophet SAW did not fulfil his duty then by not making a final Waseeah. Saying that he already made announcements before so it was not that important to repeat is contradicting oneself. On one side they claim that it was very important Waseeah to prevent people go astray and blame Umar RA for preventing Prophet SAW from making such Washeeah and on the other hand, when they see Prophet SAW did not make any Waseeah at the end, they put up an excuse that well it was not that important anyways even if he didn’t do it as he announced it a few times before as well. What a contradiction here. What is the point making an issue here then. We say the same that there was nothing new and Umar RA said the same that we have Quran and it enough for us. If there were announcement earlier like Khum and others, we do not need any. Does it make sense then ? Prophet SAW lived for another 3 days after that thursday. He was able to make any such announcement or write anything.  He met many people after that who visited him. He is said to have prayed in masjid as well during that period. Did he make any announcement ? Certainly not. Did he  write any Waseeah in last 3 days after that thursday ? Fact is that there was no Waseeah even after that Thursday while Prophet SAW remained in the companions for 3 more days before his departure.  This proves that there was no Waseeah to be made regarding successor. It is a mere assumption with no supporting evidence. I will make a statement at the end that Prophet SAW was indeed very sick and in a state that he was not aware. Otherwise he would not have asked for pen and paper but would just say it and each and every word would have been narrated to us by the companions. If we have this narration of him wishing to say something, we surely would have had if he did say something on thursday.     There are other points about Prophets illness that i will talk about later, what it means about being confused or in a state of delirium. Being a medical professional i am in a position to explain it better. I will do it with evidences inshALLAH. Consider it an opinion and a different perspective please. Regards
  22. Like
    Wisdom007 reacted to Doctor Tareen in Sahaba part Two   
    Once we have a definition then we can move on to your question. I will not question you but will try to answer your queries. Brother who posted and who wished to know who a Sahabi is, needed to know how Ahle Sunnah define it. It is also good to see that we all agree on the definition now.
    Coming to the question you raised that some were not Sahaba but Munafiqeen. Of course munafiq is a munafiq how can he be a Sahabi or companion. Regarding brother Karbalai asking about love for Ahlulbayt. It is natural to love family of prophet and respect all of them, give them their due rights, for someone who is a man of faith.
    Your questioned earlier ''So when you say to the prophet that we don't need your will and Quran is enough for us. Is that emaan?
    I should mention that the statement is not correct.  No one said that to Nabi SAW that we do not need your will. But there was a conversation between Sahaba, so no addressed Nabi SAW that way. Saying it to Prophet SAW has a different meaning and makes it serious. But talking to fellows about a disagreement is another issue. We have to see who said what and what was the intention and what was the background. Reading the whole story we realise that it was not what we have understood today. I will appreciate if you mention your objections on this occasion so i can respond to all. 
  23. Confused
    Wisdom007 reacted to Ron_Burgundy in Sahaba part Two   
    He is trying to set a ground so he could ask his questions :D. 
  24. Confused
    Wisdom007 reacted to Gaius I. Caesar in Wahhabism:The root of terrorism   
    Hardly, it is very rare. Shia terrorism is something that Faux News likes to believe in.
  25. Haha
    Wisdom007 reacted to Shah Khan in Wahhabism:The root of terrorism   
    We are Ordered by Master Muhammad صلى الله عليه وعلى آله وسلم (May Allah Shower His Blessings upon Master Muhammad and His Ahlul-Bayt with Peace) to Destroy Shrines and Leave Innovations.
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