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Orion

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  1. It is often asked how is it possible for Mujtahids to give different fatwas when there is no conflict between Allah, his Prophet (pbuh) and Holy Imams (as). They all follow the same God, same Rasool (pbuh)same Imams (as). They read the same Quran and same Hadith. So why do they give different fatwas??? -Some have gone far enough to blame Mujtahids for giving fatwas based on their "own personal opinions" and not from Quran and Hadith) or based on Qiyas (which is forbid in Shia school). -Some blame Reasoning (use of Aql) as the cause of fatwa differences. They dont understand the difference b/w the use of Logical Reasoning (al-Aql) and Analogy (qiyas). -Some have given up Taqlid altogether! or have resorted to self understanding of hadith (without any prior training in Islamic sciences). -Some have started labeling themselves as "non-Usuli" and some sympathize themselves with the Akhbari sect (without even knowing that this sect deem Quran corrupted). -Some have even become Hadith Rejectors, rejecting all hadith and relying in Quran only. DIFFERENCE OF FATWAS AMONG SCHOLARS It should be said that most fatwa differences are due to differences in Hadith. But any such differences is hardly ever such as to be contradictory. It is almost impossible to find a case of one Mujtahid saying some action is Wajib and another saying it is Haram. Let us ponder briefly over the reasons behind fatwa differences. 1- Conflicting Hadith due to different conditions of the questioner. Imam gave different orders to two different companions. Example: He told one follower that the meat of a rabbit can be eaten since he lived in an area where not eating rabbit was considered a sign of being Shia and his life could be in danger. He told the other follower that the meat of rabbit cannot be eaten, since he lived among Shia. If these commands were given at different times and in front of different set of people naturally they would convey them differently to others. If today these hadith are read by someone he will get confused. Scholars have to dig in to the conditions under which a command was give and understand which to apply today. ----- 2- Difference in understanding the reason behind a command. Example: Prophet (SAW) was sitting. The funeral of a kafir passed bye. Prophet (SAWW) stood up. -Some rawayat tell us that Prophet stood up due to the respect of angels accompanying the coffin. So following these rawayat it would be even better to to stand when the funeral of a Momin passes bye. -Other rawayat tell us that Prophet stood up since it was disrespectful for the coffin of a kaffir to pass above the head of Muslims. Naturally this reason will reflect in a totally different way of practice. ----- 3- Words have different meanings. The command was given with one meaning but it was understood with another meaning. Example: Hazrat Salman e Farsi said to the Prophet (pbuh) that he has read in Torah that "Waduh" after meals is a cause for blessing. Prophet replied that Waduh before and after meals is a cause for blessing. Here the word "Waduh" is meant as washing hands. But some have taken it in the literal sense. ----- 4- Difference in understanding the meaning of a hadith. Same way as verses of poetry may have different meaning. There is a verse in urdu: دم بھر نہ ٹھرے دل مین نہ انکھوں مین ایک پل اتنے سے قد پہ تم بھی قیامت شریر ھو Translation: "for second you did not stay in the heart, nor in my eyes Such an small size and you are so naughty!" Some say poet is talking about an imaginary lover (a short girl)! While others say its about the tear. When one's heart is full, tears come out but don't stay in the eyes for long and start flowing. Similarly some Fuqha take one meaning of a hadith while others take another. Example: Masoom said: "Jummah does not establish if there is no Imam" Some said Imam here means Imam e Masoom . Therefore it is haram to offer Jummah prayers during occultation. Others said Imam here means Imam e Jammat (the prayer leader). Meaning that Imam (as) wanted to say that Jummah prayers cannot be offered individually, it has to be offered with congregation (jammat). Example: Prophet (SAWW) said: "Love of Ali eats away sins like fire eats away dry wood". The literal meaning is that if a lover of Imam Ali commits sin, love of Ali (as) would finish the sin. But some have taken the meaning that if the love of Ali fills someones heart than a Momin will not commit sin. All his sins would finish. He would not even think of sinning. Example: Hadith: "Paradise is under Mother's feet", Some say hadith is directed towards children. If they take good care of their mother, make her happy, their rewarded would be paradise. Other say its for the mother. If she trains them well, she could make them among the people of paradise. ----- 5-Hadith going against each other. Example: In Furu al-Kafi there is a hadith from Zarar ibn Ain according to which Imam Baqar (as) said: "Without doubt, Jummah bath is wajib". Another hadith from Masoom says: If someone is unable to perform Jummah bath, the Jummah bath will remain due on him. He could postpone it till Saturday. And another hadith: If you dont have water for Jummah baith, bring it after buying (purchase it). All these hadith give the impression that Jummah Ghusl (bath) is obligatory. But also in Furu al-Kafi there is a hadith again from Zarar ibn Ain according to which Masoom (as) listed Sunnat baths. And Jummah bath is included in that list. So as you can see according to one hadith from the same Sahabi, ghusal of Jummah is wajib and according to another its sunnat. Yet another hadith from Shaikh Sadooq (aleh rehama) in Khasal it was asked Maula what is the difference b/w the prayers of men and women. Imam (as) listed many differences. One of them was that for men Ghusl e Jummah is mustahab. ----- 6-Hadith quoted in terms of meaning and not exact words. Some hadith were quoted in terms of meaning and not their exact words. Since different people understood hadith differently they stated it differently. ----- 7- Many references could result in differences. It is a common observation that if one message is conveyed through several messengers their could occur differences in the conveyed message. ----- 8-Mistakes in hadith due to human errors or forgetfulness. Narrators of hadith were human beings. ----- 9-Loss of Hadith books. We currently have 4 large books of hadith, namely: - Asool al-Kafi, - Tahzeeb al-Ahkam anal Masail al-Halal wal Haram, - Istabsar fi mukhtalf min al akhbar - Kitab al Faqih lemin la yahjar al faqih During the time of Shaikh Sadooq (AR) there was a 5th book "Madinat al-Ilm" comprising of 12 volumes. And was considered the largest book on Ilm al Hadith. This book is no longer available. Naturally scholars who had this book in front of them gave fatwas. But scholars toady don't have this book resulting in difference of fatwas. Similarly Imam as-Sadiq (as) had ordered the writing of 400 books on Principals. Not all of them are available with us today. Therefore scholars who got those hadith have different fatwas than those who don't. ----- 10-Non-reliable narrators. Hadith are graded according to the reliability of narrators. Scholars accept or reject hadith based on their grading and may differ in which hadith to accept and which not. This is a detailed subject and I will not go into details at this point. ----- 11-Fabricated hadith. People used to fabricate hadith due to their post, belief or affiliation. Others did it to please the Ruler or King of their time. Example: One person Abdul Karim ibn Abi al Aujah was hanged during the time of Khalifa Mehdi. While being hanged he confessed to fabricating 4000 hadith where he had made halal things haram and haram things halal! ----- 12-Change in the description of things. Example: Regarding salat there is a hukam that if someone has blood on his body or clothes and if it is less than a dirham its ok to pray with the blood. But there is difference in the description of the size of dirham. -Dirham is the size of the cave in palm. -Dirham is the size of the digit of thumb. -Dirham is the size of first digt of middle finger. -Dirham is the size of first digit of index finger. ----- 13- Some hadith were said due to Taqayah. Some say a particular hadith was said during Taqayah while others say it was not. ----- 14-Hadith with different background. These rawayat are present in front of the Mujtahid but he has no information on the background. ---------------------------------------- Above are some of the reasons why it is so difficult for scholars to give fatwa and why they may have different fatwas on the same issue. It should be observed that the existence of differences in scientific opinions is not to be taken as a sign of a substantial defect in the quest for knowledge and a reason for abandoning it altogether. It is, rather, a sign that knowledge moves in progressive steps towards perfection. Differences of opinions are to be found in all sciences, not just in fiqh. There may, for example, be more than one opinion about the therapy for a particular patient's disease, and all of these opinions may be superseded later on by the development of new methods of dealing with that disease. Thus these observations can be seen to be relevant not only to differences between the opinions of contemporary scientists but also to historical differences, and all these differences should be regarded as signs of the dynamism within a science and stages to be passed in its route to perfection. It should be remembered that the Mujtahid formulates his opinions after pushing his research and study as far as he can. That is all that is expected of him, for he is neither inerrant nor an Alim bil-ghayb (knower of the unseen). So, even if the Mujtahid's fatwa is not actually in agreement with Allah's real command, neither he will be punished on the Day of Judgment for having issued the fatwa, nor will his Muqallid (follower) for having acted according to it, for both will have done what was commanded of them and what was humanly possible for them to do. Hadith: "The mujtahid who succeeds (in identifying the true law) gets two rewards and the one who errs gets one," Above hadith aims to encourage Ijtihad as it leads to the development of thought and taps the resources of the intellect. This admirable practice has been in vogue in Shia academies for ages, and throughout the history of Ijtihad, Muj­tahidun welcomed the expression of diverse viewpoints regarding various issues. This is the reason why Shia fiqh has achieved its remarkable development in various fields and preserved the capacity to answer the problems and satisfy the diverse wants of man in every age. Lastly, please note that the examples given in this post are for the sake of understanding only. Please dont start fighting on these examples. Also I have translated myself and it his not easy to convey everything properly (since there could be mistakes in translation). WS
  2. Akhi we take our religion from authentic Shia books. And Wikipedia is not one of them. I suggest next time you quote our views from our books. You can find many at www.al-islam.org. Thanks. Out of thousands of issues, Marjas differ in only a few. and some people just highlight them to take out their grudge against scholars. There are many reasons why scholars differ in their opinions. InshaAllah I will list them for you in my next post. No its not guessing game. We ask experts (Ahly Khubra) to guide us towards the most learned marja. Yes, an expert opinions based on the teachings of Ahlul Bait (as). Just like we take the opinion of top level doctors and follow their advise. In case of doctors its a matter of life and death. In case of Marjas its a matter of Jaza and Saza. The problem is that your knowledge is no where near that of an expert in religious sciences. So how can we accept your interpretation of quran and Sunna. Scholars prove fatwas they give from Quran and Sunna. You doubt this cus you have never attended dars e kharij. Nor have you ever listened to or read books that scholars write about their fatwas. Scholars are often criticized for not providing evidence with their fatwas. Some even go far enough to accuse them of inventing fatwas using their own opinion without any proof from Quran and Sunnah/hadith. Such objections are raised by those who read short books of Islamic Laws (Risala Tozih al Masail) or receive one or two line replies to their e-mail queries from Marja offices. Islamic University (hawza) at Qom-Iran and Najaf-Iraq have a system of discussions called Dars al-Kharij (درس خارج or بحث خارج) on different topics including Islamic Jurisprudence (Fiqh). During these discussions Scholars explain, discuss and debate issues. Different Ayats from QURAN and HADITH from the Prophet (SAWW) and Masoomeen (as) are presented and analyzed. The validity of proof is challenged and questions answered. These discussions are now available on-line, for those seeking knowledge and understanding. I am providing links to a few such sites as an example for those who wants to know the trurh: LINKS: -Text - 41 books by Ayatullah Khoi: http://www.al-khoei....master=1∂=1 -Audio - 684 ders e Kharij of Ayatullah Khoei: http://shiavoice.com/cat-260.html Other scholars have similar books and audio lectures of Dars e Kharij. Please go through the links I have given above. Find a topic of your interest and read or listen yourself. First of all Aql tells us to follow the most learned and discard the view of less learned. This is common sense as well. second, our Holy Imams (as) have told us so. I have the hadith....... and I can quote it, without problem...... But what have you done with the previous aql hadith I had quoted. You had your interpretation and I had mine. who will decide who is correct you or me....So brother do you see the problem here. Now, If you promise to accept the hadith as it is without any interpretations,..... say so and I will quote.
  3. JazakAllah brother for your reply. This is exactly why this discussion is stagnant. Ijma You wrote: Ijma is the consensus, or what the majority accept on religious issues, i.e a general agreement. The explanation of Ijma you have given is the Sunni Ijma. Where when all scholars of today have consensus on a issue it becomes the law. We the Shia do not accept this type of Ijma. In the Shia view, only the consensus of the 'ulema of the same period as the Prophet (saww) or The Holy Imams (as) is binding. For example, if it is clear that on one subject all the Muslims of the Prophet's era, with no exceptions, had a certain view and have performed a certain type of action, this is proof that they were taught it by the Holy Prophet. Likewise, if all the companions of one of the pure Imams (as) who took instructions from none but the Imams (as) all had an identical view about something, this is proof that they acquired that view from the schooling of their Imam. Therefore, in the Shia view, consensus goes back to the Sunnah of the Prophet. Now I ask you, do you have any problem with the type of Ijma I have stated above? Blind Taqleed You wrote: Following a marja without having evidence from the Quran and Sunnah of the prophet(saw) and his pure family(as). Or following a marjas fatwas when you know that they are against the hadiths of the imams(as) and in contradiction to the hadiths. Indeed, what you wrote above is blind taqleed which is haram. Unlike what you wrote above, we follow our Marja intelligently. You can call it Smart Taqleed. Let me give you a few reasons: 1- When we choose our Marja we do our best to find the Marja who exceed in certain qualifications or criteria. For example he has to be well trained in Islamic sciences and has proven his competence in front of his teachers. Is the most learned scholar among his peers. Is just and pious, etc. In what we are getting is the "expert opinion" of a trustworthy master of his field. Something similar to (but better) than getting the opinion of the best Cardiologist in the world for a heart patient. The difference is that its not about treating a sick patient, but following the command of Allah. 2- Marja provides evidence behind his views and fatwas from Quran and Hadith during lectures known as Dars e Kharij. Here he is questioned openly by others and he has to prove his fatwas. Anyone can go to Najaf and Qom to attend these secessions. They are also available online in the form of audio recordings. Many books are are also written where scholars explain and give proof for their fatwas from Quran and Hadith. 3- Anytime we are convinced that some other Marja has excelled the Marja we are following, we are free to change our Taqleed and switch to the other (most learned) Marja. So as you can see this is no where near "blind taqleed". Rather it is "smart taqleed" as I had said before.
  4. Before we discuss Taqleed, Aql etc we have have to first agree on what it means.
  5. Brother robbenmessi1010, The problem I see with this discussion is that the participants are not talking about same things. They have a different understanding of different terms. In other words one is talking about Apples and the other about Oranges. So we need to first come on the same page with regards to the meaning of different terms. Once we agree what one really means by e.g. Taqlid, Ijtehad, Aql, Ijma etc we can have a fruitful discussion, InshaAllah. So, what do you understand by the term Ijma? What do you mean by Blind Taqleed???? Who is doing Blind Taqleed and how? (Request, keep your answers short and to the point. Thanks)
  6. Here is a clear hadith for you. You should know that RELIGION follows AQL. Religion never leaves Aql. Allah has commanded Religion to be with al-Aql (Intelligence) wherever it may exist. The following hadith is from al-Kafi H 2, Ch. 1, h 2: Ali ibn Muhammad has narrated from Sahl ibn Ziyad, from 'Amr ibn ‘Uthman, from Mufaddal ibn Salih from Sa‘d ibn Tarif from Asbagh ibn Nabatah, from Ali (a.s) who has said the following: "Once Jibril came to Adam (a.s) and said, ‘I am ordered to offer you three choices. You may chose one and leave the other two. Adam then asked, "What are those three things?" Gibril replied, ‘They are Intelligence (al-Aql), bashfulness and religion.’ Adam then said, "I chose Intelligence (al-Aql)." Gibril then asked bashfulness and religion to return and leave Intelligence with Adam. They said to Gibril, ‘O Gibril, we are commanded to be with Intelligence wherever it may exist. Gibril then said, "It then is up to you." He then ascended to heavens. ========================== Now in light of the above hadith if Aql tells us that such and such thing is lethal for us. Will it not become haram for us even when there is no ayat or hadith for it. In other words our religion (e.g. things being haram or halal) will follow Aql (which deems something lethal). Another example is that lets say going to HAJJ is obligatory (wajib) for someone living in Pakistan as he fulfills all requirements. It is written in Quran and hadith. But in order to perform Hajj one has to apply for and obtain a passport. So automatically getting a passport becomes obligatory (wajib) for this person based on Aql even when no such thing is written in Quran or Hadith.
  7. Akhi who told you that Taqleed is Wajib?????? Taqleed is an option. How can something which is as option be called wajib unless you shunn all other options. We have the option to 1-Become a learned scholar i.e. mijtahid ouselves (best option) 2-Act on Precaution 3-Do Taqleed. If you think there is another option please share it with me.
  8. If you dont do Taqlid, ONLY those actions of yours will stand void that are not according to the Teachings of the Prophet (SA) and his successors or the fatwa of the Mujtahid that you were supposed to follow (but did not). For example you performed Waduh BUT it was not what Propeht (SAWW) had taught. So it will stand Void. Other actions of yours that were done accoeding to the Teachings of the Prophet (SA) and his successors or the fatwa of the Mujtahid that you were supposed to follow (but did not) will stand VALID. (see fatwas of Ayat. Sistani on this question) And regarding the "narrators of hadith" it menas "rawi" maning one who narrates the hadith from person to person. Is part of a chain of narrators. If I start quoting hadith from an old Shia book no one will consider me as a "narrators of hadith". Alhamdulillah our great scholars (Maraje) are actual narrators of hadith. They just dont quote hadith from old books BUT actually narrate them from person to person such that the chain goes all the way to Masoom Imam (AS), Propeht (SAWW), Jibrael (AS0 and finally God Himself (SWT). So when Imam Mahdi (ATFS) told us to ask the narrators of hadith, you will find that our Marja are the actual living narrators of hadith today. WS
  9. I dont think this topic is off limit. This is a place where Shia (and others) come and discuss issues, learn and help each other.
  10. You cant compare salt and sugar with tobacco smoking. Excess of salt and sugar is bad as it could cause high blood pressure and obesity respectively. WHILE smoking is linked to heart attacks and lung cancer among a list of other diseases. Keep away from Shisha.
  11. :no: Its said that Shisha is like smoking 100 cigarettes together at one time!!!!!!! And as you know smoking is bad for your health. Better respect your body and stay away from such things. WS
  12. The best system is that in which the ruler is appointed directly by Allah. Quran gives us several examples like that of Prophet Soloman (as) and Talut. Similarly the government of our Prophet (pbuh) and that of Imam Ali (as) were the best governments. And the system to be implemented by Imam Mahdi (ATF) will be the best system. WS
  13. In Quran (chapter 18) Allah tells us the story of Ashab al- Kahf (People of the cave). They belong to the era of the Roman Emperor Decius (around 250 AD). According to Quran they slept for some 300 years before waking up. Is that biologically possible? According to hadith they are still alive and will return during the end time. WS
  14. My understanding is as follows: -The actual soil from the Holy grave of Imam Hussain (as) is no longer available. -The dust that gathers over the grave covering is available. It comes in small packets and can be obtained (as gift) from the Nazoorat office located inside the Holy Shrine. -The Khak E Shifa sajdagah available from Karbala are widely available and are made from soil of Karbala. WS
  15. InshaAllah you should not have any problems if you go with a reliable group.
  16. (bismillah) Salams and Welcome to shiachat. :) To learn about Shia Islam you can visit this site: http://www.al-islam.org/ Also you can ask questions on this board. WS
  17. (bismillah) We believe that QURAN is the Word of Allah and is 100% authantic book. After Quran, we have several reliable books of hadith (like al-Kafi, etc) . But we dont claim anyone of them to be 100% authantic. Our scholars examine each hadith seperately and check its authanticity and grade it accordingly. They use "iIm al-Rejal" which is the study of the chain of narrators. Also any hadith going clearly against Quran is rejected. WS
  18. IRFAN is a way of live in which a person makes Allah his beloved and worships Him according to the teachings of Ahlul Bait (as). He achives a higher station with self restrain, piety, doing good to others and spending more time remembering Allah, praying, fasting, supplicating, etc. Unlike some forms of Sufism he does not aboundon his normal life. He continues to live as a normal person with family, job etc and performs all his family and religious duties as a Muslim. The following book is about the life of one such person. The Elixir of Love WS
  19. Allah is present everywhere. He is closer to us than our neck veins. It is wrong to contain Him in something or say that He lives at a particular place or that He moves from place to place. Allah (swt) says about Himself: We verily created a man and We know what his soul whispereth to him, and We are nearer to him than his jugular vein. (QURAN 50:16) Imam Ali (as): Praise is due to Allah whose worth cannot be described by speakers, whose bounties cannot be counted by calculators and whose claim (to obedience) cannot be satisfied by those who attempt to do so, whom the height of intellectual courage cannot appreciate, and the divings of understanding cannot reach; He for whose description no limit has been laid down, no eulogy exists, no time is ordained and no duration is fixed. He brought forth creation through His Omnipotence, dispersed winds through His Compassion, and made firm the shaking earth with rocks. The foremost in religion is the acknowledgement of Him, the perfection of acknowledging Him is to testify Him, the perfection of testifying Him is to believe in His Oneness, the perfection of believing in His Oneness is to regard Him Pure, and the perfection of His purity is to deny Him attributes, because every attribute is a proof that it is different from that to which it is attributed and everything to which something is attributed is different from the attribute. Thus whoever attaches attributes to Allah recognises His like, and who recognises His like regards Him two; and who regards Him two recognises parts for Him; and who recognises parts for Him mistook Him; and who mistook Him pointed at Him; and who pointed at Him admitted limitations for Him; and who admitted limitations for Him numbered Him. Whoever said in what is He, held that He is contained; and whoever said on what is He held He is not on something else. He is a Being but not through phenomenon of coming into being. He exists but not from non-existence. He is with everything but not in physical nearness. He is different from everything but not in physical separation. He acts but without connotation of movements and instruments. He sees even when there is none to be looked at from among His creation. He is only One, such that there is none with whom He may keep company or whom He may miss in his absence. (Nehj al-Balaghah, Sermon 1)
  20. http://www.answering-ansar.org/answers/saqifa/en/chap1.php
  21. SAQIFAH FROM HISTORY OF TABARI: (History of al-Tabari, Volume IX, page 186, English translation-SUNY press) 'Umar b. al-Khattab came to the house of Ali. Talhah, al-Zubayr, and some of the Muhajirun were also in the house with 'Ali. Umar cried out, “By God, either you come out to render the oath of allegiance [to Abu Bakr], or I will set the house on fire." Al-Zubayr came out with his sword drawn. As he stumbled (upon somethingl, the sword fell from his hand, so they jumped over him and seized him.' (History of al-Tabari, Volume IX, pages 186-187, English translation-SUNY press).
  22. Not so. Our scholars spend their lives studying hadith sciences, narrators and authanticity to grade hadith and seperate true hadith from false ones. Its called Ilm ul-Rejal. And they do not take anything passed on by our scholars to be true. This is why we dont call any of our hadith books to be 100% sahih. On the other hand sunnis consider every hadith in Bukhari and Muslim to be Sahih.
  23. ^^ Let me put it this way, They did a lousy job.......or in other words they tried their best but Allah preserved the truth even in their books. So now when they read their own books withh an open mind they start seeing the truth and convert.
  24. Narrated: Abu Huraira: the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: My people would come to me on the cistern and I would drive away persons (from it) just as a person drives away other people's camels from his camels. They (the hearers) said: Apostle of Allah, would you recognize us? He replied: Yea, you would have a mark which other people will not have. You would come to me with a white blaze on your foreheads and white marks on your feet because of the traces of ablution. A group among you would be prevented from coming to me, and they would not meet me, and I would say: O my Lord, they are my companions. Upon this an angel would reply to me saying: Do you know what these people did after you. (Sahih Muslim, Ch 2, book of purification, # 480) -------------- Narrated 'Abdullah: The Prophet stood up and delivered a sermon, and pointing to 'Aisha's house, he said thrice, "Affliction (will appear from) here," and, "from where the side of the Satan's head comes out." (Sahih Bukhari, Vol 4, Book 53, # 336)
  25. Being masoom is one thing which has to do with protection from errors and sins. Allah is All-Knowing. Knowing future events has to do with how much Allah reveals to his chosen people. Also you cannot punish someone for what he/she has not yet done. Prophet (S) knew about the future events (by the Will of Allah) and he warned people about the the companions and his wife. There are many hadith even in Sunni books (see Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim).
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