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In the Name of God بسم الله

muslim720

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  1. Like
    muslim720 got a reaction from Ibn Al-Ja'abi in Enough Shia Sunni   
    Salaam alaykum wa rahmatullah,
    After spending countless hours on ShiaChat, I am here to bid farewall to everyone here and this website. 
     
    First, I would like to thank the moderators and administrators for being so understanding to allow me, a non-Shia, speak his mind as frequently and as openly. 
     
    Second, I would like to apologize to anyone I may have offended.  The intention was never to offend anyone but learn from each other. 
     
    Last, no Sunni is better than Shia and no Shia is better than Sunni except in their faith, intention and deeds.  I have said this before and I will say it again.  I have Shia friends that I am jealous of because their piety and noble deeds exceed mine by miles.
     
    May Allah [swt] bless you all.  Keep me in your prayers and I will keep you in mine.
     
    PS - it is a farewell note so please do not comment in a way which would force me to come back and respond.  Also, do not turn this into another debate.  We do not bicker and fight when parting from one of our brothers :)
  2. Like
    muslim720 got a reaction from Ali_ in Enough Shia Sunni   
    Salaam alaykum wa rahmatullah,
    After spending countless hours on ShiaChat, I am here to bid farewall to everyone here and this website. 
     
    First, I would like to thank the moderators and administrators for being so understanding to allow me, a non-Shia, speak his mind as frequently and as openly. 
     
    Second, I would like to apologize to anyone I may have offended.  The intention was never to offend anyone but learn from each other. 
     
    Last, no Sunni is better than Shia and no Shia is better than Sunni except in their faith, intention and deeds.  I have said this before and I will say it again.  I have Shia friends that I am jealous of because their piety and noble deeds exceed mine by miles.
     
    May Allah [swt] bless you all.  Keep me in your prayers and I will keep you in mine.
     
    PS - it is a farewell note so please do not comment in a way which would force me to come back and respond.  Also, do not turn this into another debate.  We do not bicker and fight when parting from one of our brothers :)
  3. Like
    muslim720 got a reaction from The Light in Enough Shia Sunni   
    Salaam alaykum wa rahmatullah,
    After spending countless hours on ShiaChat, I am here to bid farewall to everyone here and this website. 
     
    First, I would like to thank the moderators and administrators for being so understanding to allow me, a non-Shia, speak his mind as frequently and as openly. 
     
    Second, I would like to apologize to anyone I may have offended.  The intention was never to offend anyone but learn from each other. 
     
    Last, no Sunni is better than Shia and no Shia is better than Sunni except in their faith, intention and deeds.  I have said this before and I will say it again.  I have Shia friends that I am jealous of because their piety and noble deeds exceed mine by miles.
     
    May Allah [swt] bless you all.  Keep me in your prayers and I will keep you in mine.
     
    PS - it is a farewell note so please do not comment in a way which would force me to come back and respond.  Also, do not turn this into another debate.  We do not bicker and fight when parting from one of our brothers :)
  4. Like
    muslim720 got a reaction from von Lohengramm in Enough Shia Sunni   
    Salaam alaykum wa rahmatullah,
    After spending countless hours on ShiaChat, I am here to bid farewall to everyone here and this website. 
     
    First, I would like to thank the moderators and administrators for being so understanding to allow me, a non-Shia, speak his mind as frequently and as openly. 
     
    Second, I would like to apologize to anyone I may have offended.  The intention was never to offend anyone but learn from each other. 
     
    Last, no Sunni is better than Shia and no Shia is better than Sunni except in their faith, intention and deeds.  I have said this before and I will say it again.  I have Shia friends that I am jealous of because their piety and noble deeds exceed mine by miles.
     
    May Allah [swt] bless you all.  Keep me in your prayers and I will keep you in mine.
     
    PS - it is a farewell note so please do not comment in a way which would force me to come back and respond.  Also, do not turn this into another debate.  We do not bicker and fight when parting from one of our brothers :)
  5. Like
    muslim720 got a reaction from Al-Hassan in Enough Shia Sunni   
    Salaam alaykum wa rahmatullah,
    After spending countless hours on ShiaChat, I am here to bid farewall to everyone here and this website. 
     
    First, I would like to thank the moderators and administrators for being so understanding to allow me, a non-Shia, speak his mind as frequently and as openly. 
     
    Second, I would like to apologize to anyone I may have offended.  The intention was never to offend anyone but learn from each other. 
     
    Last, no Sunni is better than Shia and no Shia is better than Sunni except in their faith, intention and deeds.  I have said this before and I will say it again.  I have Shia friends that I am jealous of because their piety and noble deeds exceed mine by miles.
     
    May Allah [swt] bless you all.  Keep me in your prayers and I will keep you in mine.
     
    PS - it is a farewell note so please do not comment in a way which would force me to come back and respond.  Also, do not turn this into another debate.  We do not bicker and fight when parting from one of our brothers :)
  6. Like
    muslim720 got a reaction from Abu Nur in Enough Shia Sunni   
    Salaam alaykum wa rahmatullah,
    After spending countless hours on ShiaChat, I am here to bid farewall to everyone here and this website. 
     
    First, I would like to thank the moderators and administrators for being so understanding to allow me, a non-Shia, speak his mind as frequently and as openly. 
     
    Second, I would like to apologize to anyone I may have offended.  The intention was never to offend anyone but learn from each other. 
     
    Last, no Sunni is better than Shia and no Shia is better than Sunni except in their faith, intention and deeds.  I have said this before and I will say it again.  I have Shia friends that I am jealous of because their piety and noble deeds exceed mine by miles.
     
    May Allah [swt] bless you all.  Keep me in your prayers and I will keep you in mine.
     
    PS - it is a farewell note so please do not comment in a way which would force me to come back and respond.  Also, do not turn this into another debate.  We do not bicker and fight when parting from one of our brothers :)
  7. Like
    muslim720 got a reaction from Ali_Hussain in Enough Shia Sunni   
    Salaam alaykum wa rahmatullah,
    After spending countless hours on ShiaChat, I am here to bid farewall to everyone here and this website. 
     
    First, I would like to thank the moderators and administrators for being so understanding to allow me, a non-Shia, speak his mind as frequently and as openly. 
     
    Second, I would like to apologize to anyone I may have offended.  The intention was never to offend anyone but learn from each other. 
     
    Last, no Sunni is better than Shia and no Shia is better than Sunni except in their faith, intention and deeds.  I have said this before and I will say it again.  I have Shia friends that I am jealous of because their piety and noble deeds exceed mine by miles.
     
    May Allah [swt] bless you all.  Keep me in your prayers and I will keep you in mine.
     
    PS - it is a farewell note so please do not comment in a way which would force me to come back and respond.  Also, do not turn this into another debate.  We do not bicker and fight when parting from one of our brothers :)
  8. Like
    muslim720 reacted to Abul_Hassan01 in 12Ers Believe Majority Ahle Bayt Were Misguided?   
    We know that the 12ers believe that the majority of the sahaba were misguided.
     
    What is interesting is that they also believe the majority of the ahle bayt were misguided too.
     
    Here is a list of over 50 figure from ahle bayt who lead revolutions during the Umayyad & Abbasid rule, taken from twelvershia.net. note the following:
     
    A- They did not claim to receive orders from any of the 12 Imams permitting them to revolt or encouraging them to carry arms, nor was it reported from any of the 12 Imams that they instructed any of these men to revolt.
     
    B- These revolutionaries openly called for themselves and received allegiance for themselves not for the 12 Imams of the Twelver sect. In fact, when these revolutions succeeded these revolutionaries ruled and did not transfer authority to the 11 Imams or the hidden Imam of that sect
    .
    C- None of the Twelver Imams of that sect have actually risen up to aid and support any of these revolutions. Rather, the Twelver Imams have been quite peaceful as they never declared any armed revolutions with the exception of al-Husayn ibn `Ali.
     
    Here's the list:
     
     
    -In the reign of Banu Umayyah, the `Alawite revolutions were ignited with the rebellion of al-Husayn ibn `Ali during the time of Yazid, but his revolution failed and turned into the tragedy in Karbala’. Husayn’s martyrdom was followed by a rebellion in `Iraq by a group of his Shia, they wished to repent for not aiding al-Husayn after having called him so they named themselves al-Tawwaboun, then this was followed by the rebellion of al-Harrah in Madinah that led to the death of many of the children of the Sahabah, after that a man called al-Mukhtar rebelled in `Iraq and ruled its lands and said he was ordered to do so by Muhammad bin `Ali (ibn al-Hanafiyyah) who disowned him as soon as he heard his lies.
     
    -After this, al-Hasan bin al-Hasan bin `Ali ibn abi Talib was falsely accused of calling for himself by `Abdul-Malik bin Marwan. In fact, several `Alawites were falsely accused of this either by their enemies or by some of the extremist Shia, this ended up getting them into trouble so we will not mention their names in the list.
     
    -Then Zayd ibn `Ali ibn al-Husayn rebelled in Kufa during the time of Hisham bin `Abdul-Malik after he had an argument with him because of Zayd ibn `Ali’s fight with his cousin Ja`far bin al-Hasan. The Koufan Shia then called on him and asked him to rebel but they abandoned him in Kufa after they debated him about the Shaykhayn.
     
    -Then his son Yahya bin Zayd bin `Ali rebelled during the time of al-Walid bin Yazid bin `Abdul-Malik in Khurasan but he was defeated and crucified until the time of abu Muslim al-Khurasani.
     
    -In the reign of Banu al-`Abbas we witnessed much more but not in the time of their first Caliph al-Saffah, rather after his death when al-Mansour became Caliph he was confronted by Muhammad bin `Abdullah bin al-Hasan bin al-Hasan bin `Ali ibn abi Talib. When the government of Banu Umayyah was beginning to shake, the people of Madinah and the heads of Ahlul-Bayt gathered to elect a man from them to lead, and they chose Muhammad al-Nafs-ul-Zakiyyah secretly but never declared it, and he had the support of many men such as abu Hanifa and Malik. Upon hearing this, the Caliph imprisoned his family members, but al-Nafs-ul-Zakiyyah freed them and took over Madinah and had the support of the majority of its people but finally the army headed by `Isa bin Musa defeated him.
     
    -Ibrahim bin `Abdullah al-Mahd bin Hasan bin Hasan bin `Ali, who was sent by his brother Muhammad to Basarah, after his brother’s death he called for himself and was given Imamah by the people but was killed in Ahwaz by al-Mansour’s army.
     
    -Then his uncle Ibrahim al-Ghamr bin al-Hasan who was the brother of `Abdullah al-Mahd rose after his two nephews Muhammad and Ibrahim died. Al-Mansour quickly stopped his movement before he had the chance to acquire more power and arrested him and his brothers and household, he died in prison.
     
    -Then al-Hasan bin Ibrahim bin `Abdullah bin Hasan al-Muthanna bin Hasan al-Sabt bin `Ali ibn abi Talib also rebelled in the time of al-Mansour. He was hiding in Basarah, then he sent his callers to every corner to call for his Imamah, so al-Mansour sent an agent who claimed to be from his closest Shia, then he lured him out and got him arrested, he later died in prison from poison.
     
    -Then `Abdullah al-Ashtar ibn al-Nafs-ul-Zakiyyah bin `Abdullah bin Hasan bin Hasan bin `Ali, he appeared in al-Sind in Kabul where he had escaped after his father’s death. He gathered the people he converted to Islam there, he later got into many fights with the governor of al-Mansour until he got killed.
     
    -Then rose al-Hasan bin Ibrahim bin Hasan bin Hasan bin `Ali in Basarah during the days of al-Mahdi bin al-Mansour, but he was forced to go into hiding because of lack of supporters until he died.
     
    -Then rose `Isa bin Zayd ibn Zayn-ul-`Abidin bin Husayn bin `Ali during al-Mahdi’s rule. He received the Bay`ah from the Koufans, the Basrans, the Ahwazies and Hijazies while he was laying low. Al-Mahdi sent him a man who got close to him then killed him with poison.
     
    -Then rose `Ali bin `Abbas bin Hasan bin Hasan bin `Ali also in al-Mahdi’s reign, he made a group give him Bay`ah in secret in Baghdad. Al-Mahdi arrested him before he could acquire power but his relative al-Husayn bin `Ali of al-Fakh interceded and got him out of prison, he later died from poison in Madinah.
     
    -After this, the martyr of al-Fakh rose, he was al-Husayn bin `Ali bin Hasan bin Hasan bin Hasan bin `Ali during Al-Hadi bin al-Mahdi’s days. He took Bay`ah in Madinah and chased away its governor, then he headed towards Makkah but an army intercepted him and he was killed in Fakh near Makkah.
     
    -Then Yahya bin `Abdullah bin Hasan bin Hasan bin `Ali in al-Hadi’s days after he had survived the event of al-Fakh, he finally settled in the mountain of al-Daylam in the days of Haroun al-Rashid who sent al-Fadl al-Barmaki to fight him. They negotiated peace with him and he returned peacefully to Madinah and received a lot of money from the Caliph, later it was proven that he was still calling to himself secretly so he was arrested and they differed on his death.
     
    -Then his brother Idris bin `Abdullah bin Hasan bin Hasan bin `Ali who also survived al-Fakh then headed towards al-Maghrib and received Bay`ah from the tribes and overthrew the `Abbasies.
     
    -Then Muhammad ibn Ibrahim Tabataba bin Isma`il al-Dibaj bin Ibrahim bin Hasan bin Hasan bin `Ali during al-Rashid’s days. He rebelled alongside abu al-Saraya and they went to Kufa and defeated the `Abbasiyyah and took their gold and received Bay`ah from the Koufans and all Arabs surrounding it, then Muhammad died during that revolution so abu al-Saraya replaced him with a young `Alawite boy called Muhammad bin Muhammad bin Zayd ibn Zayn-ul-`Abidin bin al-Husayn.
     
    -As stated above Muhammad bin Muhammad ibn Zayd bin `Ali bin Husayn rebelled and he was no more than a tool for abu al-Saraya who was the leader of the revolution. Abu al-Saraya appointed `Abbas bin Muhammad bin `Isa al-Ja`fari on Basarah and Husayn al-Aftas bin Husayn bin `Ali Zayn-ul-`Abidin on Makkah. He also appointed Ibrahim bin Musa bin Ja`far al-Sadiq on Yaman. Finally they were both defeated, abu Saraya was beheaded and Muhammad bin Muhammad was imprisoned and it was said poisoned.
     
    -Then an army was sent to defeat Zayd al-Nar bin Musa bin Ja`far al-Sadiq who was burning the houses of Banu al-`Abbas and their followers. Zayd negotiated a peaceful surrender and was jailed in Baghdad.
     
    -Ibrahim al-Jazzar bin Musa bin Ja`far al-Sadiq who was previously placed in Yaman by abu al-Saraya was controlling Yaman, and he became famous for his massacres thus his name “al-Jazzar”.
     
    -Then his son Muhammad bin Ibrahim bin Musa bin Ja`far al-Sadiq and he was calling for Muhammad bin Muhammad, he was killed in Khurasan.
     
    -Then Muhammad bin Sulayman bin Dawoud bin Hasan bin Hasan bin `Ali, but his supporters abandoned him so he hid in Madinah until he died.
     
    -Then Idris bin Idris bin `Abdullah bin Hasan bin Hasan bin `Ali in al-Maghrib after his father died and he established the Idrisi dynasty where his children ruled for hundreds of years.
     
    -Then the infamous scholar of Ahlul-Bayt al-Qasim al-Rassi bin Ibrahim Tabataba bin Isma`il bin Ibrahim bin Hasan bin Hasan bin `Ali also during the days of al-Ma’moun. He remained in hiding while his callers called for his Imamah in the lands, then he moved from Egypt to Hijaz and hid until al-Ma’moun died. After al-Mu`tasim came to power he tried to capture him, but al-Qasim fortified himself in a mountain called al-Ras where he and his children lived.
     
    -Then rose Muhammad Sahib al-Taliqan bin al-Qasim bin `Ali bin `Umar al-Ashraf bin `Ali bin Husayn bin `Ali and the people called him al-Soufi and they differed on what happened to him after al-Mu`tasim.
    -Then Muhammad bin Ja`far bin Yahya bin `Abdullah bin al-Hasan bin al-Hasan bin `Ali rebelled in Hirat and conquered the southern part where he and his children ruled until 290 AH.
    -Then Muhammad bin Salih bin `Abdullah bin Musa bin `Abdullah bin Hasan bin Hasan bin `Ali who appeared in a village near Madinah. However, abu al-Saj managed to trap him and imprison him in the city of Surra man Ra’a (Samarra), at that time many of the `Alawites refrained from revolting and calling for themselves.
    -Then it was the time of al-Hasan bin Zayd bin Muhammad bin Isma`il bin Hasan bin Zayd bin Hasan bin `Ali ibn abi Talib, he conquered Tabaristan and the areas of Daylam and ruled for forty years until he died in 250 AH.
    -Then Muhammad bin Ja`far bin Hasan bin `Umar bin `Ali bin Husayn bin `Ali ibn abi Talib, who rebelled in the non-Arab lands but was imprisoned by al-Mutawakkil.
    -It was said that more `Alawites rebelled in the time of al-Mutawakkil, some were killed while others were imprisoned.
    -Then Yahya bin `Umar bin Yahya bin Husayn bin `Ali Zayn-ul-`Abidin who appeared in Kufa and won the people’s hearts during the Caliphate of al-Musta`in.
    -Then Husayn bin Muhammad bin Hamzah bin `Abdullah bin Husayn bin Zayn-ul-`Abidin who was imprisoned by al-Musta`in and died in prison.
    -Then Muhammad bin Ja`far bin Hasan bin Ja`far bin Hasan bin Hasan during al-Musta`in’s days in Armenia or Kufa, he died in prison in 250 AH.
    -Then al-Kawkabi Ahmad bin `Isa bin `Ali bin Husayn bin Zayn-ul-`Abdin, he rebelled in al-Kufa in the time of al-Mahdi in 255 AH.
    -Then Ahmad bin Muhammad bin `Abdullah bin Ibrahim Tabataba bin Isma`il bin Ibrahim bin Hasan bin Hasan bin `Ali in al-Mu`tamid’s time. He had battles with ibn Touloun and was beheaded as a result.
    -Then al-Da`i Muhammad bin Zayd bin Muhammad bin Isma`il bin Hasan bin Zayd bin Hasan bin `Ali in 277 AH. He had many battles and was killed in Jurajan in al-Mu`tadid’s time.
    -Then al-Nasir al-Utroush al-Hasan bin `Ali bin Hasan bin `Ali bin `Umar al-Ashraf bin `Ali Zayn-ul-`Abidin in al-Jil and al-Daylam in 284 AH, and he conquered lands and gained much strength until he was killed in 304 AH.
    -Then al-Da`i al-Hasan bin Qasim bin Hasan bin `Ali bin `Abdul-Rahman bin Qasim bin Hasan bin Zayd bin Hasan bin `Ali. Fought the children of al-Nasir al-`Abbasi and defeated them then ruled Tabaristan for twelve years.
    -After him his son al-Mahdi Muhammad bin Hasan bin Qasim bin Hasan during the reign of al-Muti` al-`Abbasi in 353 AH. He ruled over al-Jil and al-Daylam until he died in 360 AH.
    -Then al-Tha’ir Ja`far bin Muhammad bin Husayn bin `Ali bin Hasan bin `Ali bin `Umar bin Zayn-ul-`Abidin and he gained strength and ruled until he died in 367 AH.
    -Then his son abu al-Husayn al-Mahdi bin Ja`far al-Tha’ir in the Caliphate of al-Qadir Billah al-`Abbasi and he did not last long as he died from sickness.
    -Then his brother Husayn bin Ja`far al-Tha’ir, and he ruled the lands he dominated until he died.
    -Then Ahmad bin Husayn bin Haroun bin Husayn bin Muhammad bin Haroun bin Muhammad bin Qasim bin Hasan bin Zayd bin Hasan bin `Ali also in the time of al-Qadir in 380 AH. He had some battles until he finally conquered Tabaristan and died in 411 AH.
    -Then his brother al-Natiq bil-Haq Yahya bin Husayn in the time of al-Qa’im al-`Abbasi, and he ruled the lands he dominated until he died in 424 AH.
    -Then al-`Aqiqi `Ali bin Ja`far bin Hasan bin `Abdullah bin `Ali bin Ahmad bin `Ali bin Husayn bin Zayn-ul-`Abidin in the time of al-Qa’im in 404 AH.
    -Then Ahmad bin Muhammad bin `Ali bin Muhammad bin Hasan bin Muhammad ibn Ahmad al-A`rabi bin Muhammad bin Hasan bin `Ali bin `Umar al-Ashraf bin `Ali bin Husayn bin `Ali just as those before him did in 417 AH.
    -Then al-Nasir al-Husayn bin Ja`far bin Husayn bin Hasan bin `Ali bin al-Nasir al-Utroush near al-Daylam.
    -Then al-Muwaffaq Billah Husayn bin Isma`il bin Zayd bin Ja`far bin Hasan bin Muhammad bin Ja`far bin `Abdul-Rahman bin Qasim bin Hasan bin Zayd bin Hasan bin `Ali.
    -Then his son al-Murshid Billah Yahya bin Husayn.
    -Then abu Talib Yahya bin Ahmad bin al-Aamir abi al-Qasim al-Husayn al-Mu’ayyad Billah Ahmad bin Husayn bin Haroun after 490 AH in the time of al-Mustazhir and he fought against the Batini sect.
    Then the author lists the names of `Alawites who did their revolutions but it is not known when and during whose reign they did so:
    -Muhammad bin abi al-A`rabi bin Muhammad bin Hasan bin `Ali bin `Umar bin Zayn-`Abidin.
    -`Ali al-`Iraqi bin Husayn bin `Isa bin Zayd bin Zayn-`Abidin.
    -Ahmad bin `Isa bin Zayd bin Zayn-`Abidin.
    -Al-Hadi bin al-Mahdi bin Hasan bin `Abdullah bin `Ali bin Hasan bin `Ali ibn abi Talib.
    -Al-Radi Billah Nasir bin Husayn bin Zayd bin Salih bin Muhammad bin `Abdullah bin Muhammad bin `Abdul-Rahman bin Qasim bin Hasan bin Zayd bin Hasan bin `Ali ibn abi Talib.
    -Zayd bin Salih bin Hasan bin Zayd bin Salih bin Hasan bin Zayd bin Salih bin `Umar.
    -`Ali bin Muhsin bin Ahmad bin `Ubaydullah bin Hasan bin `Ali bin Muhammad bin Hasan bin Ja`far bin al-Hasan al-Muthanna.
    -Husayn bin Muhammad bin `Ali bin Ja`far bin `Ubaydullah.
    -His brother Hasan bin Muhammad bin `Ali.
    As for those `Alawites whose lineage is not known, they are:
    -Ashraf bin Zayd from the progeny of al-Hasan.
    -Al-Sayyid al-Azraqi.
    -Abu al-Raha al-Kaytami.
    And all of these `Alawite revolutions happened in the areas of: Qazwin, Tabristan, al-Jil, al-Daylam, Jurajan, Hijaz, `Iraq and Maghrib.
    As for those `Alawites who appeared and called for themselves in Yaman, then the first of them is:
    -Al-Hadi ila al-Haq Yahya bin Husayn bin Qasim bin Ibrahim Tabataba bin Isma`il bin Ibrahim al-Ghamr bin al-Hasan al-Muthanna in Sa`dah in the year 280 AH. He fought against the Isma`ili Shia `Ali bin al-Fadl al-Qarmati and the state of the Qaramitah in Yaman, he died from poison in 298 AH.
    -Then his son al-Murtada Muhammad bin al-Hadi rose instead of his father but he stepped-down from Imamah after one year so the Zaydi scholars tried to get his brother to step-up.
    -Then his brother al-Nasir li-Dinillah Ahmad bin Yahya came after the Zaydiyyah called on him from the mountain of al-Ras during the Caliphate of al-Muqtadir in 301 AH.
     
     
    Now that's a long list of members of ahle bayt who were misguided according to 12ers.
     
     
  9. Like
    muslim720 got a reaction from Bukhari8k in The Clear Refutation Of Fadak   
    1.  For example who?  And I hope you are not talking about those who turned back on the religion upon whom Abu Bakr [ra] declared war.  But knowing how imbecile you are, I would not be surprised if you start taking their side over one of the most eminent companions of the Prophet [saw].
     
    2.  Really?  Try to refrain from using such language.  Sometimes the person in front of you might have spent a lot of time in situations you would faint in.  So don't act tough when you cannot back it up.  Of course you are looking at a screen otherwise you may have seen stars.
     
    3.  Now we have it straight from the horse's mouth.  And then you have the nerve to accuse us of your own crime by saying, "The arguments come later and then you accuse us of reverse reasoning." 
     
    That is what you do and you have admitted to it.  Thank you.  If Fatima [ra] disagrees, then forget the Qur'an, Sunnah and history.  She must be right.  Everything else can take a hike, right?
     
    4.  Let us assume Abu Bakr [ra] - as you allege - ran away from battlefields.  But when he came to Fatima's [ra] house, according to your madhhab, Imam Ali [ra] could do nothing to save his wife.  Furthermore, according to you, Abu Bakr [ra] took Fadak like it was nobody's business and still Imam Ali [ra] could not do anything.  So you may consider Abu Bakr [ra] to be a coward but who is the bigger coward as per your own formula?
     
    5.  Without getting into the technicalities of what you have brought forth as proof and its tafseer, I will entertain your point.  Going by your logic and taking your proof at face-value, Ibrahim [as] was an Imam (in the Shi'ee sense of the word).  But Ibrahim [as] was a prophet before he was appointed an Imam.  Was Imam Ali [ra] a prophet?  Then where is the exception, in the Qur'an, that a person can become an Imam without attaining prophethood?  Exactly, you have no point!
     
    6.  Actually this is your addition because you have not provided one verse that proves Imamat, let alone their Divine Appointment and preserving the message after the Seal of the Prophets [saw] departs.
     
    As I always say, what good is a hiding guide?  Al-Kafi, as I am discussing in another topic, was compiled at a time when representatives of the 12th Imam were around.  Yet Shias failed to keep it authentic and error-free.  Again, what good is a guide who cannot give you one sahih book?  What good is a Divinely Appointed guide who failed to establish justice and reclaim Fadak?
     
    7.  Again, if the Taurat was revealed in its entirety, that does not mean that the religion was completed.  The favors were completed when the Qur'an was fully revealed.  The religion was perfected through the Holy Prophet [saw]. 
     
    Another fail!
     
    8.  The successor to Musa [as] was Yusha ibn Nun [as], not Haroon [as].  Furthermore, the Prophet [saw] also said that if there was a prophet after him, it would have been Umar [ra].  Learn Islam holistically please.
     
    9.  Shura cannot change the Sharia but the second part of your statement is problematic because it has not been proven.  You are attacking one concept and then putting forth your own whims (which you consider to be proven Islamically).  You have not proven the "eternal rule of Divine Appointment" so stop making statements in its favor.  Establish proof for your claim before you support it.
     
    10.  The Holy Prophet [saw] nominated Abu Bakr [ra] to lead the Muslims in prayer in his own lifetime.  What do you call the person who leads prayers?  Imam.
     
    "Shura belongs to Muhajirs and Ansars and if they agreed on a man, and named him Imam, that is per pleasure of Allah."  (Nahjul Balagha, letter 6)
     
    Imam Ali [ra] verifies that Shura is an acceptable process of electing a leader, confirms that the leader elected is considered Imam and that the whole process and the leader elected are per Allah's [swt] pleasure.
     
    11.  That is fine but how is Imamat your usool-e-deen when it is not in the Qur'an?
     
    12.  lol, sure!  You have proven nothing but we will believe your conclusion.  I am a believer now.  I have been saved.  All praise Sikandar Baig!
  10. Like
    muslim720 reacted to GreatChineseFall in The Clear Refutation Of Fadak   
    I have a question about this statement. (Btw, nobody has commented on my previous post #236)
     
     
    If it is claimed that Abbas wanted his share of inheritance (especially if it was demanded a second time, now from Umar), doesnt that mean that at least Abbas believed that it wasn't gifted? Because he could inherit as an uncle, not as a granduncle. Some schools of jurisprudence include grandmothers and grandfathers, but I dont think anyone includes granduncles as having a right to inheritance, at least not if there are others entitled to it like a husband or children.
  11. Like
    muslim720 got a reaction from Haji 2003 in I Need Honest And Realistic Carreer Advice   
    Walaykum as salaam,
    One word, you could say two: IT!
     
    I majored in Biology and segwayed into IT for reasons that need not to be disclosed.
     
    IT is a reputable career which allows you to look into many subfields to specialize and you can take your skills anywhere in the world.  For the most part, stress levels are low and with the option of "working from home", IT stands head and shoulders above other careers when it comes to balancing work and family life.
     
    Did I mention it is easy (relatively speaking)?  If you do not want to go to school for a degree, you can start studying for certifications on your own or take online courses.  Udemy offers courses for $10 - $15 during their special sales and they have these sales at least once every two months.  Where I live, a number of mosques offer free IT classes (well, they charge a nominal fee which goes into the donation box).
  12. Like
    muslim720 got a reaction from ~ThePond~ in Isis Destroys Assad's Main Arsenal.   
    I remember asking a Syrian Christian brother (who works at a Muslim owned store) as to what he thought about Assad.  This was right around the time the "uprising" had started and "freedom fighters" were being transported to Syria, years before ISIS.  To his credit - I later realized it was unwise of me to put him on the spot while he was on the clock - without any hestiation or thought, he said that he prefers Assad any day over these "liberators".
     
    I pity any Sunni who revels in the glory of ISIS or any Shia who celebrates Assad's resistance.  In the end, innocent Muslims and non-Muslims pay with their blood.
     
    May Allah [swt] hasten the destruction of ISIS and all tyrants.
  13. Like
    muslim720 got a reaction from Ali_Hussain in Isis Destroys Assad's Main Arsenal.   
    I remember asking a Syrian Christian brother (who works at a Muslim owned store) as to what he thought about Assad.  This was right around the time the "uprising" had started and "freedom fighters" were being transported to Syria, years before ISIS.  To his credit - I later realized it was unwise of me to put him on the spot while he was on the clock - without any hestiation or thought, he said that he prefers Assad any day over these "liberators".
     
    I pity any Sunni who revels in the glory of ISIS or any Shia who celebrates Assad's resistance.  In the end, innocent Muslims and non-Muslims pay with their blood.
     
    May Allah [swt] hasten the destruction of ISIS and all tyrants.
  14. Like
    muslim720 got a reaction from Mahdi_theguideforall in I Need Honest And Realistic Carreer Advice   
    It is possible.  I started my training in 2013 and by the end of the year, I was certified with a job interview lined up.  I wasted 3 months before seriously applying....in other words, I could have landed a job much earlier.  I have purchased a few videos from Udemy.  I will consider it a blessing if I could share them with you so that you benefit from them.  You can start there.  Create your own account and purchase your own videos or see if you can benefit from the videos I have.
     
    By the way, employers do not care if you did an online course or your own course.  As long as you demonstrate that you are able to do the job, or at least understand the concepts, they will hire you.
  15. Like
    muslim720 got a reaction from maes in Cursing The Companions And So On   
    Cool story bro!  Did he convert to Shia or Sunni Islam?  Maybe we should celebrate his wiladat.
     
     
     
     
    1.  Thank you for your advice but I am only holding up a mirror here.  Some people do not like what they see in it.
     
    2.  So what?  The wife of Uthman [ra] felt that she should come to the rescue of her husband.  Imam Ali [ra], as per your belief, did nothing.
     
    3.  Again, so what?  Imam Ali [ra], as per your aqeedah, did nothing.
     
    4.  Still, so what?  Imam Ali [ra], as per your madhhab, did nothing remotely close to what the wife of Uthman [ra] did.
     
    5.  Do you know that dying while defending your family confers shahadat on you?  Imam Ali [ra], according to your belief, preferred to be a bystander and accept humiliation over defending his honor and martyrdom.  SubhanAllah!
  16. Like
    muslim720 got a reaction from maes in Cursing The Companions And So On   
    1.  The wives [ra], not daughters [ra], of the Prophet [saw] are the Mothers of Believers.  
     
    2.  Let me tell you Imam Ali's [ra] reaction, as per your beliefs.  Nothing!  That is what he did, nothing!
     
    3.  Nothing.
     
    4.  Still nothing.
     
    5.  The real question is what will be your reaction because if you retaliate, then you are saying that you are braver than Imam Ali [ra].  If you choose to follow that which Imam Ali [ra] did, which was nothing, according to your school of thought, then.........well, some things are better left unsaid :)
  17. Like
    muslim720 reacted to Bukhari8k in Bukhari And Al-Kafi   
    Brother muslims720
     
    Now I would say that you are wasting your efforts here.
     
    Did not you see the opening post, which talks about "comparison" of the Two Books but since the author himself did not know how to do it... he starts bringing narrations from Al Bukhari, he deems faulty. The easy job for you was to copy controversial narrations from Al Kafi in reply, but you are doing the more difficult job of explaining. But let me remind you of "Switcheroo"!
     
    I think you can introduce a topic enlightening Comparison between the books (Sihah Sittah/Asha Arba'a).. like timelines, authors, subjects, narrators, narrations' statistics, science/criteria adopted etc.
     
    Regards
  18. Like
    muslim720 got a reaction from starlight in I Need Honest And Realistic Carreer Advice   
    Walaykum as salaam,
    One word, you could say two: IT!
     
    I majored in Biology and segwayed into IT for reasons that need not to be disclosed.
     
    IT is a reputable career which allows you to look into many subfields to specialize and you can take your skills anywhere in the world.  For the most part, stress levels are low and with the option of "working from home", IT stands head and shoulders above other careers when it comes to balancing work and family life.
     
    Did I mention it is easy (relatively speaking)?  If you do not want to go to school for a degree, you can start studying for certifications on your own or take online courses.  Udemy offers courses for $10 - $15 during their special sales and they have these sales at least once every two months.  Where I live, a number of mosques offer free IT classes (well, they charge a nominal fee which goes into the donation box).
  19. Like
    muslim720 got a reaction from Al Hashmi in Bukhari And Al-Kafi   
    Now for the final blow:
     
    Narrated Abu Huraira:- Allah's Apostle said, "(The Prophet) Moses was a shy person and used to cover his body completely because of his extensive shyness.  One of the children of Israel hurt him by saying, 'He covers his body in this way only because of some defect in his skin, either leprosy or scrotal hernia, or he has some other defect.'  Allah wished to clear Moses of what they said about him, so one day while Moses was in seclusion, he took off his clothes and put them on a stone and started taking a bath.  When he had finished the bath, he moved towards his clothes so as to take them, but the stone took his clothes and fled; Moses picked up his stick and ran after the stone saying, 'O stone! Give me my garment!'  Till he reached a group of Bani Israel who saw him naked then, and found him the best of what Allah had created, and Allah cleared him of what they had accused him of.  The stone stopped there and Moses took and put his garment on and started hitting the stone with his stick.  By Allah, the stone still has some traces of the hitting, three, four or five marks.
     
    THIS IS WAS WHAT Allah REFERS TO IN HIS SAYING: -- "O you who believe!  Be you not like those Who annoyed Moses, But Allah proved his innocence of that which they alleged, And he was honorable In Allah's Sight." (33.69) - Sahih Al-Bukhari - Volume 4, Book 55, Number 616
     
    There are five charges given by mufassireen in regards to Qur'an 33:69 and this is the first one on that list.
     
    This hadith is also recorded by your great (Shia) Mufassir Abul-hasan Ali ibn Ibrahim al-Qummi in his Tafsir of Quran ‘Tafsir-ul-Qummi’ of Sura Al-Ahzab where he records the following:

    "Abu Abdullah (Imam Jaffar) reported that that Banu Israil were saying that Mosa doesn't have what men have and when Musa wanted to take a bath he would go to a place where nobody could see him. One day he was taking a bath at a river, so he put his clothes on a stone so Allah [swt] ordered the stone (to go away) so it went away from him until Banu Israil saw him and knew that it was wrong what they said about him."
     
    The Shia version is far worse because it says that Musa [asws] did not "have what men have".

    The prominent Shia scholar al-Fadl b. al-Hasan al-Tabrisi has confirmed this event in his Majma' Al-Bayan.  Another prominent Shia scholar, Ni'matallah al-Jaza'iri, has defended this report, too.
     
    Will someone confirm the Shia sources I read online?  Thank you.
  20. Like
    muslim720 reacted to Bukhari8k in The Clear Refutation Of Fadak   
    Brother, Anything which is prophet's (saw) personal property and he gives such a thing to someone is okay as per Sunni view... like he (saw) gave Fatimah (ra) things as dowry or he gave individual houses to his wives. 
     
    ... if only you would understand the concept of Fay (which is a form of maal-e-ghanimah) which rests with government as state property.
    Fadak was a piece of land that was (a.) not bought by Rasool Allah (saw), (b.) neither he inherited and (c.) nor did he fight for it.... RIGHT? Such a property may come by way of peaceful settlement or if they have been abondoned. It is a ghanimah which remains with the head of the government as per Quran. And Allah has also told the uses of such a property. As per the narration of Imam, such property would transfer to "Qaama makama'hu".  
     If, lets say, a leader under his leadership receives valueable/property, which has been left by opposition without fighting. Would he now become owner of all such properties and would transfer such a thing to his sons/daughters etc? Hazrat Umar (ra), (i know you do not consider him Ameer ul Momineen) captured vast lands and countries under his rule and also wealth of two biggest empires. Should he now have claimed ownership of such properties, which came by way of peaceful settlement or abandonment?   
     
    If i remember correctly, the sword and Zirah etc were first submitted to Bait-ul-Maal from where Caliph Abu Bakr (ra) gave sword to Hazrat Ali (ra) and Zirah to (perhaps) Zuabir (ra) for use as custodians for deriving benefits from them rather than just keeping them locked in Bait ul Maal.
    Being head of the government Abu Bakr (ra) could delegate his powers and could distribute from Ghanimah/bait-ul-maal as he deemed fit (as you know that Imam said that "imam may spend as he wishes).
     
    w'salam
  21. Like
    muslim720 reacted to Bukhari8k in The Clear Refutation Of Fadak   
    People cannot defy Divine Decree of Allah.
     
    Decree definition: an official order that has the force of law. Decree is the word usually used for arabic word "kutiba/kitaba" etc. 
    what is kutiba/kitaba... it is something which Allah has written down in Lawh-e-Mehfooz and no human being or angel has the power to change it.
     
     
    What better reward would there be for Ibn Abu Quhafa & Ibn e Khattab (raa) for they are resting with Rasool Allah (saw) ever since.
     
    Good example have been brought in by you that Rasool Alah (saw) ordered Ali (ra) for omitting the sentence but Ali (ra) could not do that. So according to you Ali (ra) moazAllah did not agree to this kind of wisdom by Rasool Allah (saw) in Rasool Allah's lifetime and adopted it only afterwards? There are differences between the two situations you present:Rasool Allah (saw) agreed to the demand of Kafirs, where as Ali (ra) without any demand did that.Rasool Allah (saw) accepted this when he was not incharge of affairs, whereas Ali (ra) did this while he was incharge and was able to fight wars.  Rasool Allah (saw) agreed to forgive his personal right (and that is why Ali [May Allah reward him for that] did not agree to omit the sentence by himself and for his love and respect towards Allah's apostle), where as Ali (ra) took the rights of others by not dividing the property among inheritors.Rasool Allah (saw) afterwards made a seal proclaiming his status as prophet, whereas Ali (ra) did not reclaim.  
     
    But you just said that Ali (ra) "did not take back Fadak because he did not want give his enemies any excuse to use against him." 
      
    Does the word "ملكا" means "having all kinds of right over something"?
     
    lets just quote the narration from Imam (as) and see your thoughts on issue that If Fai/ anfal is the sale-able/inheritable property then why does it to belong to the imam after prophet (saw) and not go to the rightful relatives?  
     
    Al-Kafi
    Abu Abdallah (a.s) said:”Al anfal is such property for the acquisition of which no camels or horses are use and no armed expeditions are undertaken. It is the property that may come as a result of negotiated settlement or certain people would give with their own hands, may come from a barren land or from inside the valleys. Such properties belong to the Messenger of Allah and it will belong to the Imam(leader) after the Messenger of Allah. The Imam(leader) will spend them as he may consider proper.”(Al Kafi, Chapter The Fay’, al-Anfal, al-Khums, its rules and the properties subject to al-Khums, page 186).[Majlisi in Mirat al Uqul vol 6, page 255 graded it as Hasan(good)]
  22. Like
    muslim720 got a reaction from Bukhari8k in The Clear Refutation Of Fadak   
    1.  Let us see if you stick with your promise of not sidetracking the discussion and sticking purely to Fadak.  For the record, I am quite comfortable with not knowing anything.  That, however, is a matter of shame for you because even I can see through your lies and refute you logically.  Sure says too little about you.
     
    2.  That commentary, plus the others you have quoted as "same as above", reiterate your lie.  It says that when the verse was revealed, the Prophet [saw] gave Fadak to Fatima [ra].  The point of contention is the setting where the verse was revealed.  Thus far, it is almost unanimous that the entire chapter was revealed in Mecca.  Again, your commentary does nothing but supports your lie.  It does not correct my refutation.  Plus, Tafseer Mizan clearly pronounces the verse to be Meccan.
     
    By the way, the verse states that one should render to the kindred their "haq" and "haq" is not a gift.  "Haq" is your right whereas a gift is a privilege.  This is pure logic.
     
    3.  While few scholars are lenient towards tadlees, others have referred to it as "brother of lying". 
     
    4.  I think scholars of the past are better judges of matters that unfolded in their lifetimes.  However, let me quote your source.
     
    "Mahmoud Saeed Mamdouh rightly states in his book: ‘We conclude that Atya al-Aufi are authenticated by Yahya bin Saeed al-Qatan, ibn Saad, ibn Moin, al-Tirmidhi, al-Bazar, ibn Shaheen and some others.’ (Rafe al-Manara, p173)."
     
    ShiaPen published that article and quoted Mamdouh to have authenticated Attiya by the way of aforementioned scholars.
     
    Ibn Moin
     
    Now the fact is that there are other views repored from Yahya ibn Moin, regarding Atiyya, which proves that Ibn Moin changed his view on Atiyya and considered him weak:
    وقال يحيى بن معين _ في رواية ابن الجنيد (رقم 234) _ : ( كان ضعيفاً في القضاء ، ضعيفاً في الحديث ).
    In one of the narration of Ibn Junaid, it is narrated from Yahya bin Moin: “he (Atiyya) was weak in Qadha and also weak in hadith.
    وقال _ في رواية أبي الوليد بن أبي الجارود كما في الضعفاء للعقيلي (3/359) _ : (كان عطية العوفي ضعيفاً ).
    In the report from Ibn Abi Jarood, Imam Ibn Moin said: “Atiyya was weak”. [Adh-Dhu’afa of Al-Uqailee (3/359)]
    وقال _ في رواية ابن أبي مريم كما في الكامل (7/84) _ : ( ضعيف إلا أنه يكتب حديثه ).
    In the report of Ibn Abi Maryam from Ibn Moin, Imam said: “he was weak. except his hadith to be written.” [Al-Kamil (5/369) Daar Ul-Fikr]
     
    Ibn Shaheen
     
    Ibn Shaheen did not strengthen Atiyya awfi, but only quoted the opinion of Yahya. Furthermore, he quoted the opinion of Yahya weakening him too. Ibn Shaheen quoted Ibn Ma’een’s weakening of Attiyyah in his book of weak narrators (p. 273), i.e; Ibn Shaheen also mentions him in Al-Dhua’afa p. 273.
    Hence, Ibn Shaheen has just recorded those narrators in his Thiqat who has some tawtheeq from scholars, no matter if they were actually Thiqah according to him or not. So quoting Ibn Shaheen doesn’t give Atiyya awfi any support.
    Regarding Atiyya awfi, Ibn shaheen found Ibn Mu’een tawtheeq regarding him, so he listed him in it.
    Ibn Shaheen said:
    (1023) عطية العوفي ليس به بأس قاله يحيى
    “Atiyya Al-‘Awfi, there is no problem with him. This was said by Ibn Mu’een.”
    So, Ibn Shaheen just quoted the view of Ibn Maeen, which is not his own view. And Ibn Shaheen also quoted Ibn Ma’een’s weakening of Attiyyah in his book of weak narrators (p. 273).
     
    Ibn Saad
     
    But Ibn Saad further states after giving this opinion:
    ومن الناس من لا يحتج به
    “there are people who don’t consider him (Attiya) for evidence”.
     
    And according to Ibn Hajar, Ibn Saad is not to be relied on when he is on odd with majority of experts and pioneers of Ilm ul Rijaal (science of narrators), especially like in this case.
     
    Yahya bin Saeed al-Qattan
     
    “In fact, he (Attiya) is weak.  He has been declared weak by Hushaim, Yahya bin Sa’eed Al-Qattan, Ahmed bin Hanbal, Sufiyan Ath-Thawri, Abu Zur’ah Ar-Razi, Ibn Mu`een in some reports, and in other he said: 'there is no problem with him'.  Also Attiya has been declared weak by Abu Hatim, Nasai, Zawzjani, ibn Adi, Abu Dawud, Ibn Hibban, DaarQutni, As-Saaji.  So they are all agreed upon declaring him weak.  And no one declared him thiqah except Ibn Sa’d.” [Tahreer Taqreeb (3/20)].
     
    While you prefer to entertain us with the words of Mamdouh, who is not from amongst the early scholars, here are the scholars that have rejected Attiya.  Bear in mind that the opinion of scholars who were Attiya's contemporaries or lived at a time closer to him overrides the opinion of someone who came centuries later.  They are Imam Hushaim, Imam Yahya bin Sa’eed Al-Qattan, Imam Ahmed bin Hanbal, Imam Sufiyan Ath-Thawri, Imam Abu Zur’ah Ar-Razi, Imam Ibn Mu`een, Imam Abu Hatim, Imam Nasai, Imam Zawzjani, Imam ibn Adi, Imam Abu Dawud, Imam Ibn Hibban, Imam DaarQutni, and Imam As-Saaji.
     
    5.  As mentioned, nearly all the scholars are in agreement that Attiya was weak and committed tadlees.  Even if we take Attiya to be reliable, the matn of the narration is rejected because Surah Al-Israa verse 26 commands to give kindred their "haq", not gift.  Lastly, the ayah itself is Meccan as is the case with the entire surah.  Three strikes.
     
    I will add one more strike to it.  The verse says, "And render to the kindred their due rights, as (also) to those in want, and to the wayfarer:  But squander not (your wealth) in the manner of a spendthrift."  If the first part applied to the Prophet [saw], would you say the remaining part, referring to him as a squandering spendthrift - naudhibillah - applies to him too?
     
    6.  Didn't you say you will keep it relevant to Fadak since I am not qualified on kalami issues?  You are not only lying but contradicting yourself.  On top of all this, you prefer to change goals posts at will.
  23. Like
    muslim720 got a reaction from Bukhari8k in The Clear Refutation Of Fadak   
    1.  Your post is replete with harsh remarks while you accuse me of using abusive language.  You are not getting under my skin today.  However, it is good to see you again.  You must feel consoled to see that you are not the only tragic statistic to have failed to defend the Shia position on Fadak.  Many more are joining you in your rank.
     
    2.  For a moment, I will agree with you.  In fact, temporarily, I will side with Fatima [ra].  Fadak, I will assume, was a gift and inheritance.  Whatever!  Fadak was for Fatima [ra].  I will momentarily entertain the idea that an injustice was done to Fatima [ra] when Fadak was usurped.  I will also concede that Imam Ali [ra] sided with Fatima [ra].  But knowing that Imam Ali [ra] did not take Fadak, after claiming that he sided with Fatima [ra], do you know that you are accusing him of hypocrisy?  Do you realize that you are calling Imam Hassan [ra] a hypocrite?  La hawla wala quwata illa billah....may Allah [swt] forgive me for typing that out but do you realize what you are insinuating?
     
    Oh, he was waiting for a direct order to reclaim the right of his own children.  What good is a Divinely Appointed Imam [ra], or two, or twelve, who waits for an order?  If he is Divinely Appointed, then he must know right from wrong and how to establish justice.  For such an individual to wait for an order is to say that he was not Divinely Appointed, that is, he is fallible, or he does not know how to establish justice.  Either ways, your point is moot. 
     
    3.  It is not my problem that you have, time and again, danced around the inheritance of Yahya [as] and lied upon the "inheritance" of Sulaiman [as].  Zakariya [as] clearly asks for a child to inherit him and it is well-known that he was poor.  The Qur'an mentions that Yahya [as] inherited his wisdom.  This is perfectly in line with the Shia narration that Prophets leave knowledge, not dinars or dirhams. 
     
    As for Sulaiman [as] "inheriting" the kingdom, we know that Dawood [as] had many sons.  If this was inheritance, tell us what did his other sons inherit?  And if they did not, which they actually did not, then concede that it was not inheritance.  So what did Sulaimain [as] inherit?
     
    And indeed We gave knowledge to David and Solomon, and they both said: "All the praises and thanks be to Allah, Who has preferred us above many of His believing slaves!"
    And Solomon inherited (the knowledge of) David. He said: "O mankind! We have been taught the language of birds, and on us have been bestowed all things. This, verily, is an evident grace (from Allah)."
    And there were gathered before Solomon his hosts of jinns and men, and birds, and they were all set in battle order (marching forwards). (Ch 27:15-17 Quran).
     
    "I was in the presence of abu ‘Abdallah (a.s.) and abu Basir also was there. The Imams (a.s.) said, "David inherited the knowledge of the prophets. Solomon inherited David. Prophet Muhammad (s.a.) inherited Solomon and we inherited Muhammad (s.a.). With us are the pages of Abraham and the tablets of Moses." Abu Basir then said, "This is the knowledge." The Imams (a.s.) said, "O abu Muhammad, this is not the knowledge. The knowledge is what happens in the nights and in the days, day after day and hour after hour."  (Al-Kafi, H 601, chapter 33, h 4)
     
    You challenge me to show you the sun with your eyes closed.  You are only fooling yourself.
     
    4.  You are so concerned about my money.  I hope you are not looking for any inheritance.
  24. Like
    muslim720 got a reaction from Cyrax in The Clear Refutation Of Fadak   
    Still you refer to your own reference as my translation?  You cannot leave it for the moment to question me further.  Account for your own reference, that which you have presented, and then you can move on.  Otherwise, give me the distribution of Fay according to Qur'an 59:7.  You ask "why would he (Allah) want a share" because you do not understand the distribution of Fay.  Had you known, you would not have asked such a question.
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    1.  No problem.  I won't lose any sleep over it.
     
    2.  But you just said you won't discuss with me.  Now you are giving me a lecture.  I do not have doubts regarding Fatima [ra] except I believe Abu Bakr [ra] was the one to uphold the Sunnah in regards to Fadak.  If the opposite would have happened, I would have sided with Fatima [ra] over Abu Bakr [ra].  Remember, and always use this litmus test before you submit your post, you believe in 14 infallibles, not me.  I only believe in one infallible (salallahu alayhi wa aalihi wa salam).  While you cannot comprehend how Fatima [ra] can err, I cannot make concessions on the Sunnah of the Prophet [saw]. 
     
    That been said, there is a Shia hadith which says that Imam Ali [ra] inherited the knowledge of the Prophet [saw] and Fatima [ra] inherited his property.  Now the message of the narration is clear but if I play by your rules, I can easily make a case for Fatima [ra] not having inherited all of the knowledge of the Prophet [saw], therefore, she did not know regarding Fay.  Again, I know that that is not the case but it is easy to play dirty like how members here, who cannot even wipe their noses, come and give us an entire commentary on Sahih Bukhari or Sahih Muslim.
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    Walaykum as salaam,
    Let us put this accusation to rest once and for all, unless you run away from it like Yam_110 did after leveling the same accusation.  None of the Sahabas [ra] - starting with Abu Bakr [ra], Umar [ra], Uthman [ra], Imam Ali [ra], all the way to the last one - were infallible.  All of the Sahabas [ra] were fallible human beings.  Can you say the same regarding Fatima [ra]?  If you can, then you have a reason to accuse us of worshiping humans.  If you cannot, and I am sure you will never be able to do so, then admit that you worship Fatima [ra].  Go on, I am waiting.  And since I know you are going to run from this point, do you want me to recommend you some running shoes?  You will need them.
  25. Like
    muslim720 reacted to Bukhari8k in Sunnism Believes In The Taghut.   
    No…  but perhaps that is only what you know!
     
    If you had just searched the internet a little more, the tradition you quoted (Muslim -  4524) DOES NOT END THERE…. It continues… Read Muslim - 4541
     
    … He said: The Messenger of Allah (pbuh) called us and we took the oath of allegiance to him. Among the injunctions he made binding upon us was: Listening and obedience (to the Amir) in our pleasure and displeasure, in our adversity and prosperity, even when somebody is given preference over us, and without disputing the delegation of powers to a man duly invested with them (Obedience shall be accorded to him in all circumstances) except when you have clear signs of his disbelief in (or disobedience to) God-signs that could be used as a conscientious justification (for non-compliance with his orders).  
     
     
    Ahlus Sunnnah would take into account not just the ahadith you but other ahadith along with Quranic verses and the path of the best people in Islam.
     
    Let me quote some Mutaffiqa Alaih narrations that would allow ordinary readers a better understanding.
     
    Sayyiduna AbdAllah ibn Umarf (RA) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (SAW): A Muslim must listen to and obey (the order of his ruler) in things that he likes or dislikes, as long as he is not ordered to commit a sin. If he is ordered to disobey Allah, then there is no listening and no obedience.
    (Sahih al-Bukhari, no. 6725 & Sahih Muslim, Kitab al Imara 4533,  other numbering 1839)
     
    It has been narrated on the authority of 'All who said: The Mersenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) sent an expeditionand appointed over the Mujahids a man from the Ansar. (While making the appointment), he ordered that his work should be listened to and obeyed.
    They made him angry in a matter. He said: Collect for me dry wood. They collected it for him. Then he said: Kindle a fire. They kindled (the fire). Then he said: Didn't the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) order you to listen to me and obey (my orders)? They said: Yes. He said: Enter the fire. The narrator says: (At this), they began to look at one another and said: We fled from the fire to (find refuge with) the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) (and now you order us to enter it). They stood quiet until his anger cooled down and the fire went out. When they returned, they related the incident to the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him). He said: If they had entered it, they would not have come out. Obedience (to the commander) is obligatory only in what is good.
    [Sahih Muslim - 4535, 4536]
     
    There is another well known hadith
     
    On the authority of Abu Sa’eed al-Khudree (ra) who said:
     I heard the Messenger of Allah (saw) say, “Whoso- ever of you sees an evil, let him change it with his hand; and if he is not able to do so, then [let him change it] with his tongue; and if he is not able to do so, then with his heart — and that is the weakest of faith.”
    [Muslim]
     
     
    =============================================
     
    The general teaching in this regard is if one has means to bring change, one can revolt against a ruler who is committing Gunah e Kabira like Shirk etc and compelling people to deviate.
    i.e. If one does not have means to revolt against the ruler, then it is not incumbent upon him to take matters in his hands because that could further strengthen the evil.
     
    If you bring together both sets of ahadith and define the meaning, then you would get the above.
     
     
    1.     Our prophet (saw) did not start physical struggle till Muslims were able enough to survive. Infact, the small community of Muslims had to migrate from Makkah to Medina. Where they built some strength and then they started revolting physically. Then there came a time when prophet (saw) had thousands of companions and they conquered Makkah.
     
    2.     Imam Hussain (ra) did not struggle physically against Yazid laeen (who was heir apparent for 12 years, i guess), till he was promised support by Kufans. Kufans then left Imam (as) and his family to be martyred in the worst possible fashion. After this incident happened incident of Harra, when people of Medina cancelled their allegiance to Yazid laeen, Hazrat Abdullah ibn Zubair (ra), who had also not given allegiance to Yazid laeen, made Medina his base for armed struggle against Yazid. He got martyred too.
     
    3.     Afterwards, the Aima Ahly-Bait (ra) did take up arms themselves or support armed struggles even by some of the stalwarts from Ahly Bait like Martyr Zaid ibn Ali (ra) etc. Because they were not able to garner real support and believed that those struggles against the tyrants in those times would not be fruitful.
     
     
      
    I guess i should stop you here to tell you that..... they are still very excited!
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