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Ibn Al-Ja'abi

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Ibn Al-Ja'abi last won the day on February 19

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About Ibn Al-Ja'abi

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  1. You're responding seriously to a person lecturing you about you, a person who probably wakes up and goes to sleep with this genocide at the forefront of your mind like everyone else in this thread and like every other decent person InshaAllah, about not caring about the Palestinians while if you go through this thread you can read @kadhim saying things like "don't start it if you don't want it" (putting it less crassly), the Palestinians are an unwanted refugee population that bite the hand that feeds them, that Hamas (who this puerile white boy who has been Muslim for 20 years and still can't pronounce Arabic it seems cause he calls them pork-butt (ham-@ss) as a joke) are cowards for using effective military tactics, that Israel just needs a partner for peace, that al-Shifa was Hamas' command and control center. The fact that he made these arguments for months should be at the forefront of everyone's minds because it tells us three things: (1) he doesn't care about Palestinians, I don't think he cares about brown people generally seeing as the null hypothesis game he was playing when justifying why a hospital was besieged and elderly kidney patients had to die (he also refuses to discuss any of the points he asserted for months, I'm assuming because he knows they are untrue), (2) he's not knowledgeable of the facts at all, despite his constant condescension (unfortunately he read some Arabic words once to become a Muslim but never tried to figure out the ethics expected of a Muslim), and (3) talking down to people, his favorite pastime, is more important to him than the lives of all the Palestinians he took a big fat dump on for months when dehumanizing them. The white guy can talk smart but his points are nonsense. I really recommend you don't lose your cool to him of all people, he's an absolute coward and a monster. Just for the sake of illustration, two cases in point: Ah yes, just the average country that began as a colonial project through collusion with the British and Americans, expelled 750k+300k civilians and then destroyed their homes to prevent return, put the remnant civilians populations of indigenous Palestinians under West Bank style military law so they can now live comfortably as second class citizens, has agitated war with the Arab world since 50s so it can finish the job, etc. How many other countries have such open systems of apartheid? Or created something (Gaza) their right wing generals and heads of intelligence gleefully refer to as a concentration camp when plotting it's ethnic cleansing? It really is amazing you internalized Israeli propaganda of an unfair standard and level of scrutiny being applied to Israel and then you say "I'm not spouting Zionist propaganda!!" What is Zionist propaganda if these are just normal political and historical opinions? It's good to let people speak if it reveals the extent of their nifaq. Biden, the most Zionist president as historian Rashid Khalidi identified him, who, until it started sinking in how politically suicidal it was for him to keep offering this level of blind support for Israel, was saying things like "our team didn't do this", he saw the pictures of the dead babies, and he doubts the death toll of Gazans, he is as balanced as Jimmy Carter. Kadhim evidently is suffering from delusion because if he's truly of this opinion then there's no facts that we can offer him that'll make him reconsider, of course not that he would engage in anything that seriously challenges his views because then he's not the smartest guy on SC. Let this be a lesson, brothers and sisters. You might recite the shahada (and never improve your ability to pronounce Arabic in 20 years then, let alone try to learn it) but it won't instill Iman in you. قَالَتِ الْأَعْرَابُ آمَنَّا ۖ قُل لَّمْ تُؤْمِنُوا وَلَٰكِن قُولُوا أَسْلَمْنَا وَلَمَّا يَدْخُلِ الْإِيمَانُ فِي قُلُوبِكُمْ ۖ وَإِن تُطِيعُوا اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ لَا يَلِتْكُم مِّنْ أَعْمَالِكُمْ شَيْئًا ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ (14) The Bedouins say, "we have believed." Say, "you have not believed, rather say 'we have submitted' for faith has not yet entered your hearts." And if you obey God and his messenger, he will not deprive you of anything from your deeds. Truly God is forgiving and merciful. Surah Hujarat, ayah 14. Even the munafiqin who reveled in the afflictions of the Muslims, even as they claimed to feel sympathy with them, said that they were Muslims.
  2. Salams Looks like kadhim forgot the 3 vetoes on a ceasefire, the veto to even condemn Israel for yesterday's flour massacre, Biden's language about this conflict since October (after Israel bombed al-Ahli, the fairy tale of 40 beheaded babies, denying the death toll, etc), or the fact that Biden started pushing that there would have been a ceasefire around the corner before the vote this week in Michigan, etc. I wonder why the guy who thinks that Palestinians are more responsible for the Palestinian refugee crisis than Israelis, Palestinians are unwanted and "bite the hand that feeds them", Palestinians left because Arab radio broadcasts, al-Shifa hospital was the Hamas Pentagon, and Hamas are cowards for using hit and run guerrilla tactics while he sits comfortably in M...(let's not get him to threaten another lawsuit) conveniently just forgot all of the above. I thought he was smarter than all of us? He talks down to us like he is at least. Who would have guessed, he's overcompensating. I would have paid money to see the look on his face as he was typing this report loool
  3. For a person who insists that he's being mischarachterized as disliking Palestinians while spending 3 months running incorrect, nonsensical Zionist talking points like the following, you like to throw stones and assume the worst of others quite a lot: Al-Shifa is a command and control center of Hamas (whom you autistically can't name anymore because you're so virtuous, or just don't like "Palis" as you like to do caucasianally put it). No body wants the Palestinians, they just bite the hand that feeds them. They bear the lion's share responsibility for their own oppression after all. Or literally any of the other posts you've made, salivating at the prospect of being the smartest jack@ss in the room while a genocide is happening. If I thought you weren't a munafiq, I would sincerely advise you to practice humility, to not treat everyone you speak to with hostility, to not make su' al-dhann a religion and bad manners a culture, practice charitability, etc, but you're beyond any help. If we tell you we all think you're very smart, will you please go away? JazakumAllah.
  4. I'd be interested to know why you think al-Kafi was written to deal with conflicting reports, the sources you cite don't say that and neither is that the format of al-Kafi. Read Tahdheeb closely, though he mentions this, the book aims at substantiating the views of Mufid's Muqni' more than anything else. Istibsar certainly was written to resolve contradictory reports.
  5. Salams, I'm of the opinion that this khutba is historical, though I will say two things about the isnad map: (1) There's an argument to be made of the spread of the hadith (as made in the above map) as being made up of several single strands, rather than any widescale corroboration, but seeing as this is a sermon its spread was probably not like the spread of ahadith. The genre this would have been in early Islamic history would have been siyar and akhbar, the transmission of which is made out to be sloppy with the inclusion of majahil, but the authorities and methods of the historians were different. The method that Mufid transmits this, and it was a point of mockery but the foolish, is the same that Mada'ini, Ibn Sa'd, and other early akhbariyyun would transmit reports (akhbari in the sense of an early historian/transmitter of reports, not the legal school). (2) The person who designed this map made an error, the chain he quotes from Ibn Tawus' Kitabul Tara'if is itself being cited from a copy of Kitabul Gharat found he found in Madratul Nidhamiyya (I presume in Baghdad). I don't believe it's found in present copies of Kitabul Gharat but I also don't think we have the Kitab in its entirety. I'm working on my own ICM isnad map of this which will go over the mutun to compare them, this shows the changes in the process of transmission, groups redactions (which were otherwise seen as minor by editors noting "minor ikhtilaf in words" not realizing the utility in telling us about the transmission). So far, I think it's safe to place this khutba within the second century hijri, especially considering how unique the khutba as transmitted by Imam al-Baqir is, while it generally agrees with the cluster transmitted by Saduq (which are more similar to each other than they are to other redactions, though there are differences between them) and the version cited by Mufid and Ibrahim al-Thaqafi, though in some ways it's simpler. The simplicity might indicate in those areas it's missing something a more original text-- since you would add to, not subtract from a text in the process of editing/tamperring with it (lectio simplicior in textual criticism terms). And while it doesn't agree with any other version word for word, it doesn't contain anything not found in other versions (though not just in one version). It requires some more research but if one can place it in the second century then it might be a memory genuinely reflecting the first century, and being narrated from Imam al-Baqir and Zayn al-'Abidin (عليه السلام) gives it a certain authority to reach back into the first century more securely. I'll save posting an image just yet since there's more asanid to be added and the mutun need to be colour coded for content, though their organization for a line by line comparison is ready. I agree that the major themes of this khutba are about Sabr and Zuhd, as these are what Amirul Mu'mineen (عليه السلام) resorts to, though the framing of the khutba is nevertheless the taking of caliphate from Him, though he was more worthy and their errors after taking it, as well as the context of this sermon as when caliphate was mentioned to him. The conclusion that this was a spur of the moment speech delivered from a place of ex tempore passion stirred up when he heard this subject mentioned would further that, I believe. Wallahu Alam. Though the critiques of it are not minor to say the least, as in the version cited by al-Saduq in Ma'ani al-Akhbar, this redaction states outright that Umar altered the legacy (turath) of the Prophet (saaw) rather than the locutions found in the other redactions which simply imply this. All versions also paint Umar as a harsh man unsuited to the job. And the death of Uthman is (rightly) blamed on his poor decisions and actions. When read in its entirety, it's a rather scatching critique of Abu Bakr, Umar, and Uthman, and while you're right that these points exist piecemeal in other works, the way they are weaved to create a narrative is one more indiction that the Shii narrative about Abu Bakr, Umar, and Uthman is as old as Islamic historiography. This is also cited by major historians pretty consistently (Aban b. Uthman is interesting as he was an author of maghazi and siyar and early narrator from the time of the Imams). Wallahu A'lam
  6. Most likely chainmail if one was wealthy enough to afford it.
  7. Of course the guy running Zionist propaganda (including al-Shifa being the Hamas Pentagon because of evidence even the BBC found to be planted) for months is willing to take lazy Zionist propaganda at face value and argue for its authenticity when he sees it, even if he knows better about the way Muslims pray. Anyways, keep arguing the guys who pointed to a calendar and said it's a list of terrorists are being forthright in this silly picture with it's ridiculous implications that 48 Arabs have a place in Israeli society and aren't just a tolerated remnant of the ethnically cleansed indigenous population. Generally, they don't. The 48 Arabs (those living within the Green line/the Zionist entity) are incredibly oppressed in a way comprable to African Americans in Jim Crow America. The type of military occupation you see in the West Bank was first imposed on them between 1948-1966 until Israel decided that they will never be able to regain their sovereignty. About 1% of 48 Arabs did serve in the IDF. As to their motivations, it's not uncommon to find colonized people serving in the armies colonizing them in hope of benefiting from the colonialism more than they otherwise would. It's obviously pointless, Israel is a self identified Jewish state, hence not a state for them. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_Indian_Scouts
  8. Ladies and Gentlemen, the intellectual powerhouse of a munafiq who has no problem saying that the Arabs are responsible for the Palestinian refugee crisis, the Palestinians are not wanted as refugees by anyone because there's something wrong with them, and that there's a Tora Bora style Hamas Pentagon under Al-Shifa because Israel said so. What can you expect from a Nasibi who says Imam Husayn threw away his life pointlessly and contrary to what Islam teaches: Please practice humility when talking to mu'mineen, lest you turn into the type who sees the liquidation of a concentration camp and says "you wanted it, bring it". والعياذ بالله
  9. Okay, so we're definitely not getting an admission that you were wrong and engaging in straight-up Zionist and genocide propaganda for months without stopping? I mean I figured as much but you really find a way to go below people's lowest expectations of you. Btw, all those reports are still there and waiting for a third party not involved with you and your lies (as well as statements of nasb you apparently want to disavow now, I know, it's a very bad thing to be a nasibi, maybe don't try to insult Imam Husayn (عليه السلام) next time for everyone to see) to deal with. I'm fine being removed from my position as a moderator, I'm not fine with the kid resentful no one wanted to sit with him at lunch grown up and defending genocide and saying openly racist statements. Anyways, that's not important. Just to confirm then, you're not going to either show how your Zionist talking points are accurate (despite all the historical and current data showing they're not) or admit you were wrong to make them? We'll leave admissions of being wrong about the Quran and Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) for the moment, and certainly admissions about nasb and racism. Yeah, I did btw, I thought it really takes a white guy to see a brown guy saying genocide and propaganda from an apartheid colonial state is bad and then say "haha you should lead the [separate ethnic group] you are defending like a lawless terrorist sympathizer". Have you thought about admitting you were knowingly, like a liar and a shill, or unknowingly, like an idiot more concerned with owning people than voicing your moral objection to a genocide, (either way like a munafiq) defending Israel using Zionist talking points? I really hope you stop dodging.
  10. Hi Kadhim, Are you going to admit you were wrong and spouting clear Zionist talking points regarding the Palestinian question (I enumerated what exactly you should concede above), you misunderstood the Quran in English when seeking to justify your nifaq, and you don't seem to know about the biographies of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) and Imam Hasan (عليه السلام)? I'll just presume you're not going to accept you said a statement of nasb regarding Imam Husayn (عليه السلام). Or should I presume you'll only have time to be a smart@ss about a genocide rather than taking accountability for what you've been tirelessly defending for months and only now don't want to talk about anymore? Why are you slinking away kadhim? You seemed to enjoy belittling mu'mineen appalled by a concentration camp and genocide, then reporting them whenever someone got tired of your bad faith lies mixed with your loving the smell of your own farts. And you certainly seemed to enjoy being smarter than the people in a concentration camp getting genocided. What's the matter now? I'm sorry I hurt your feelings, you wanna admit you were lying and wrong now, or are you gonna just keep playing the smug douche? The death toll just surpassed 25k today, why don't you make a smart comment about the Palestinians (or "Palis" as you like to call them). You've given 20 years to not learning a single fact about Islam or politics, not even learning a bit of Arabic grammar, why don't you give 2 minutes for that though. I know this is just an ego contest for you, you're the smartest guy on the whole forum.
  11. Bismillah Salams, I think this is a teachable moment. If you ever wanna see how predictable someone like @kadhim can be, look at this. Will he answer any of the factual points I made? Of course not, he's been lying through his teeth and distorting the truth for months now during an active genocide. Will he have any argument to make about the Quran he misunderstood in English or the Imams he evidently has an Ammar Nakshawani majlis level understanding of? No, of course not he's dedicated himself to trying to own anyone he disagrees with instead of learning about his (claimed) religion and growing as a person over two decades. Will he apologize for his racist Zionist (and occasionally Nazi) propaganda? No, of course not, he's just being a hard truth-teller when he's making the argument the reason Palestinians aren't taken in by Egypt is because they're a bunch of stinky savages. Will he stop hating in his heart the inmates of an actual concentration camp that dared to take a stand against their destruction at the hands of a colonial, nuclear, apartheid state with full support from NATO? No, he enjoys being a smug douche more than he does seeing justice for a Palestinian grandmother being forced to evacuate her home for the second time in her life. Our dear munafiq, @kadhim, certainly isn't a mu'min and certainly isn't a man with any semblance of a backbone. So instead of behaving as a mu'min or even just a man, he'll do the below course of action. Exactly as you expected of a worm. This is also the same guy cheering for the liquidation of a concentration camp of Muslims who instead of dealing with the words he's dedicated himself to espousing for months will run away from the responsibility of claiming he wasn't interested in this in the first place, even though he was posting about it just before I called out this nonsense. This @kadhim believes he's in any position to judge the manliness of Palestinian youth facing tanks and armored vehicles. I want to frame this report, I couldn't have prayed for something more perfect. I hope the next time anyone gets this little troll insulting them because they said Ya Ali they remember this and realize he's not a serious person at all, he's a joke of a man, he's a munafiq, and he's someone who can be ignored in entirety and nothing is lost from the intellectual discourse except the smelly, contrarian turd he drops on it. Let me know when you're ready for Arabic and Hebrew classes @kadhim, I'll throw English reading comprehension in for free. والعاقبة للمتقين والعدوان الاعلى للظالمين والحمد لله رب العالمين
  12. There you are kadhim, I'm glad you chose to say something instead of just tattling on me again like the man-child that you are. I'll make it easy for you and tell you when to report me this time. I also appreciate that you gave yourself the cover of not having to deal with the facts you've been arguing for are nothing except distortions or fabrications covering your racist outlook, contrarianism which puts your smug dunks on a concentration camp above any actual semblance of morality, and your open nifaq and contravening the Quran and the ahadith. I can't say I expected much more from you, but it's still pretty funny. Let me also try to get you to acknowledge once again, that you aren't arguing the facts anymore, since the facts don't actually support your position (cue the "yeah well have the concentration camp inmates won against the nuclear state yet?????"). You're arguing vibes. And sure, I'll indulge for a second in the hope you can acknowledge the facts you've lied about for months, knowingly or unknowingly, in the middle of a genocide, may Allah never forgive you and your nifaq. You weren't staying out of the public conversation in general, you'd been posting here and in other threads almost daily for two months before I said anything to you. You just need to go through this thread and others in the politics subforum to see that. It's just a little bit harder arguing against someone and being a smart@ss (report that) when they know the facts so I can appreciate you choosing the coward's way out, saying you're not interested anymore after running straight Zionist and genocide propaganda for 2 months like it was your job (and I have shown how your arguments were literal Zionist propaganda in these (1, 2) posts). I really hope you can admit, that you keep saying that you aren't happy about this war and that's why you've been saying what you've saying hence people calling you a Zionist sympathizer is unwarranted, but your arguments have exclusively been points that Zionists themselves espouse which are factually incorrect and that the entirety of your critique, your moral ire, and your mockery has been directed at Muslims interned in a concentration camp experiencing colonialism, apartheid, ethnic cleansing, genocide, and destruction. It is not reasonable to say you're merely critiquing armed resistance when you are saying there's something inherently wrong with the Gazans that no country wants them. I know you don't have an ounce of decency seeing as you've been arguing for the past 3 months that the problem with literal concentration camp inmates is themselves and not the people interring them in a "huge concentration camp". Anyways, this began with you for two months shilling for Zionism in the guise of being a hardcore truth-teller. You were factually wrong or came to a conclusion that cannot be substantiated right now. Please admit (or if you have the balls, make an argument) that you were wrong about (1) the Arabs bearing the lion's share (or truthfully, any) burden of the Palestinian refugee crisis. (2) The Palestinians would not have any political viability as an independent people even if it weren't for the Zionists. (3) There was a Tora-Bora style Hamas Pentagon under al-Shifa hospital that justified besieging a hospital. (4) There was no Palestinian national identity before 1918. (5) The Palestinian and Arab strategy that has resulted in land loss has been offensive wars with Israel only defending itself. (6) There isn't something wrong with the Palestinians because they are not being taken in as refugees, this is how actual Zionists and Nazis talk. (7) The Palestinian state has not thrived solely due to the Israelis not because they didn't work earnestly. (8) Al-Ahli Hospital was definitely bombed by the Palestinians. (9) Your critique of Palestinian resistance has mimicked word-for-word Zionist talking points. (10) The 1948 partition plan was not a "pretty sweet deal" (you really have a way with words). (11) Your framing of the Hamas takeover was wrong. (12) You used Alan Dershowitz's propaganda about the Palestinian "CNN strategy" (modified to an Instagram Reel strategy by you in this post and the previous one). And (13), that you have, in fact, been consistently spouting Zionist talking points that do not conform to reality or the historical/current facts as they are. Now I know you won't do that, you'll just ignore having to face the responsibility of the words you have consistently argued for during the past 3 months and evidently have held a lot longer. That's the sad thing, I'm not dealing with a Mu'min here, I'm not dealing with a man. I'm dealing with a munafiq who puts his own being a smart@ss (report that) above Islam, above the Imam, and above human decency when seeing a literal concentration camp and genocide. But of course, I'm sure our Persian brother is an easy target for you, even though ultimately he came to the right conclusion. As I said, slink away you little worm. You got to dunk on genocide victims and concentration camp inmates. Kadhim, be honest. You know you weren't arguing for the past twenty pages about the unjust repercussions of the Palestinians putting up an armed resistance for their rights as international law, moral law, and divine law affords them the right to if they choose (I know oppressed people having the legitimate choice to defend themselves and that still demanding your moral support is a difficult concept for a Caucasian to try, but I really want you to try your hardest, do the opposite of what your grandparents would have done when they saw the first nations). You said that there's a reason the Arab countries don't want them. You said they could have tried to make a good state and that didn't happen because of their own failures. You have argued in defense of Israel as I showed before and just now above, whether you want to admit that or not. And you certainly said "Don’t start **** and then complain when it goes badly. You wanted it; own it" when talking about an actual concentration camp uprising against a nuclear state with full support from NATO. No, kadhim, you might not have caused this present catastrophe, but your thinking certainly did. Your thinking is the same as the Zionists, as I've shown, as well as of western hegemony. Your thinking is kufr in other words (and nasb as I'll show later). But as I said, you're an actual munafiq so what can I expect. Yes, the Palestinian civilians who are showing photographic evidence of their own oppression, the liquidation and flattening to the earth of their concentration camp, their genocide, massacres, the slaughter of women, the elderly and infirm, and children. These people documenting their destruction so that the world knows what's happening to them, to paraphrase the South African team's lawyer, Brinne Ni Ghralaigh, they are reaching their hands out and we are failing them. These people are the real twisted, nihilistic, macabre, and amoral ones. Once again, kadhim's moral conscience and iman (or absence thereof) are on display. You did it again dude, you dunked on the concentration camp inmates. Sick animals, they choose to be genocided so they can make the world feel bad and also get nothing (?). As opposed to the other tactics they used when they effectively conceded to Israel in Oslo, Camp David, and Taba about their rights under international law (let alone their moral right to everything) and in return got further settlements, military occupation, the fracturing of the Palestinian State, the transference of the Palestinian state from Israeli military to civilian rule, the de-development, isolation, and blockade of Gaza, an annual ritual humiliation at al-Aqsa and the Church of the Sepulcher, home demolitions and expulsions, arbitrary lockups and torture, checkpoints, etc. Or when they tried peacefully protesting in 2018 and had doctors, journalists, teenagers, and pregnant women get sniped. The forecasted unlivability of Gaza in 2020 by the UN (which, if you look at the benchmarks, we are just a few years away from in reality they just got the year too early), a literal concentration camp as their own intelligence had called it, the making into bantustans of the West Bank. The basic premise that all peace talks have had is that the Palestinians will get just less than a state. The attempts to sidestep the Palestinians to resolve this conflict. This wasn't happening before the liquidation of Gaza Concentration Camp. Diplomacy has in fact been a great success, as is evidenced by what I just said. You're so right, the problem with the liquidation of the Warsaw Ghetto wasn't that the Nazis liquidated the Warsaw ghetto and deported its population to be killed, it's that the "imprudent Jews" of Warsaw Ghetto dared rise up. Your attempts at tafsir are actually really sad, not just about how you do Yazid-style tafsir to justify what is happening (you might as well go to Tabari and for your next post select the verses he used in his arguments against Imam Zaynul Abidin (as)). It's actually that after nearly 2 decades on this website, endless inane arguments with you just being a smug douchebag (report that) to just about everyone you speak to, you have this poor reading comprehension. Perhaps even sadder, after reaching your venerable age and attempting to discuss religion as long as you have, you still can't even understand the obvious meaning of the Quran. How about this, I'll offer you a discount on Arabic lessons, and just because I know you love Zionism so much, I'll teach you Hebrew at half price. Since this is in the politics subforum and I still hope you have the balls to deal with the facts you lied about and are now trying to avoid, why don't you go to the general Islamic discussions subforum, open a thread, and I can teach you how to read the Quran. You're of course right as well, it's very easy to read the Quran in Surah Hajj 39-40 and read the principle Imam Husayn (عليه السلام) presents of "the [Edited Out] and the son of a [Edited Out] has left me two options, humiliation or unsheathing my sword, and far be it for us to be humiliated" and you say, "yes, the real point of Islam is that doing the exact opposite of this". After all, why not, if you can be a smart@ss (report that) to genocide victims why not be it to the explicit sources in religion. Btw, just want users to remember that when you forget how before October 7, 1, 000, 000+ Muslims and Kitabis had been expelled from their homes without any right other than they said Allah is our Lord and languished in refugee or concentration camps, the "patch of dirt" he is referring to has Bayt al-Maqdis on it. I know kadhim is a munafiq and doesn't care about religion, only about dunking on the libs, but for those mu'mineen who do care, a wajib salah in Bayt al-Maqdis is equal to a hajj and a nafila salah in Bayt al-Maqdis is equal to an Umrah. They have already attempted once to burn down Bayt al-Maqdis and yearly, including already after this conflict, the Zionists walk across it after barring 3ibad Allah from salah as a show of force. I reiterate my offer of discounted Arabic lessons. It seems like you tried to search for any mention of hijra in the Quran to find a point to make when you had absolutely none. The referents of this ayah are "ظَالِمِى أَنفُسِهِمْ", those who have oppressed themselves, the Quranic expression for sinners. Are the Palestinians, currently being bombed to the Stone Age, sinners? Have they oppressed themselves? No? Then this ayah has absolutely no relevance. That these people are sinners is in every tafsir, Shii and Sunni, please refer to al-Mizan, al-Safi, Majma' al-Bayan, al-Tibyan, al-Tabari, Jalalayn, etc. The sinners are asked by the angels what were they indulged in, they answer they were compelled to sin because they were mustad'afin. The angels say this is not an acceptable reason to sin, they should have traveled to another land. The Palestinians are not being forced to sin, they have been and are being slaughtered for the Zionist-Nazi concept of lebensraum and to maintain ethnic superiority. This ayah simply has no relevance here. This is further demonstrated by the ahadith which confirm that this is the correct understanding of the ayah, such as: وفي المجمع والعياشي عن الباقر عليه السلام هم قيس بن الفاكهة بن المغيرة والحارث بن زمعة بن الأسود وقيس بن الوليد بن المغيرة وأبو العاص بن منبه بن الحجاج وعلي بن أمية بن خلف. In Majma' al-Bayan and Tafsir al-Ayyashi, from al-Baqir (عليه السلام), this ayah refers to Qays b. al-Fakihah b. al-Mughirah, al-Harith b. Zam'ah b. al-Aswad, Qays b. al-Walid b. al-Mughira, Abu l-Aas b. Munabbih b. al-Hajjaj, and Ali b. Umayyah b. Khalaf. والقمّي نزلت فيمن اعتزل أمير المؤمنين عليه السلام ولم يقاتلوا معه فقالت الملائكة لهم عند الموت فيم كنتم قالوا كنا مستضعفين في الأرض أي لم نعلم مع من الحق فقال الله ألم تكن ارض الله واسعة فتهاجروا فيها أي دين الله وكتاب الله واسع فتنظروا فيه. In Tafsir al-Qummi: it was revealed for those who went away from Amir al-Mu'minin (عليه السلام) and did not fight alongside him. The angels said to them when they died, "what were you involved in?" They answered, "we were oppressed in the land, meaning we did not know who was with the truth." Allah said, "was not my earth wide enough that you would have migrated in it and seen what is the religion of God. The book of God is wide, so look in it." هذه الآية نزلت في قوم أظهروا للنبي (صلى الله عليه وسلم) الاسلام بمكة، فلما هاجر النبي (صلى الله عليه وسلم) وهاجر أصحابه فتنوهم آباؤهم عن دينهم فافتتنوا وخرجوا مع المشركين يوم بدر فقتلوا كلهم This verse was revealed regarding a nation who presented themselves as Muslim to the Prophet (saaw) in Mecca, and when the Prophet emigrated along with his companions, their fathers tested them regarding their faith and they ended up going with the Mushrikin on the day of Badr, all being killed. What relevance does this have to the Palestinian question, aside from the fact that you think the answer to genocide is compliance and not stopping the genocide? Isn't an ayah like Surah al-Hajj 39-40 more pertinent to what has happened? And I say this not imposing my will on people getting ethnically cleansed, herded into concentration camps, and genocided. I say this as understanding their actions in light of the religion they and I follow and that you certainly have demonstrated is alien to you. As far as this ayah goes, their actions are absolutely legitimate in the eyes of Allah and hence you should not have made it your mission for the past 3 months to belittle and insult them and anyone who says "I hope these people aren't destroyed because they have a right to defend themselves". The ayahs specifically mention reasons for this permission being given as follows: They are oppressed. If you disagree with this, you're living on a different planet. They were expelled from their homes without any right except that they said Allah is our Lord. (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8). The destruction of mosques (1). The destruction of churches (1, 2). The destruction of monasteries (1). The destruction of synagogues (1, 2 (his chapter on the Baghdad Synaoguge bombings by the Zionists to agitate Jewish migration out of Israel)). But of course this would require you to have an ounce of understanding of the Quran and the religion. When you read ayahs like: فَلَمَّا جَاوَزَهُ هُوَ والَّذِينَ آمَنُوا مَعَهُ قَالُوا لا طَاقَةَ لَنَا اليَوْمَ بِجَالُوتَ وجُنُودِهِ قَالَ الَذِينَ يَظُنُّونَ أَنَّهُم مُّلاقُوا اللَّهِ كَم مِّن فِئَةٍ قَلِيلَةٍ غَلَبَتْ فِئَةً كَثِيرَةً بِإذْنِ اللَّهِ واللَّهُ مَعَ الصَّابِرِينَ قُلْ هَلْ تَرَبَّصُونَ بِنَا إِلَّا إِحْدَى الْحُسْنَيَيْنِ وَنَحْنُ نَتَرَبَّصُ بِكُمْ أَن يُصِيبَكُمُ اللَّهُ بِعَذَابٍ مِّنْ عِندِهِ أَوْ بِأَيْدِينَا فَتَرَبَّصُوا إِنَّا مَعَكُم مُّتَرَبِّصُونَ The only thought that runs through your mind is "Sorry, God, I think you got it wrong here." I appreciate how this only works when you just conveniently ignore the third Imam (عليه السلام), the most significant part of his Imamah, the most traumatic incident in Islamic, rather human history, and the aqwal of that Imam. That being said, you said, "exception that proves the rule". You just uttered a statement of nasb against that Imam so why not expect kufr from you if your default state is nifaq. I also love that you read the biographies of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) and Imam Hasan (عليه السلام) and conclude that they wanted to make peace with Mu'awiya, not that in both instances you mentioned they wanted to fight him and their armies betrayed them and forced them into capitulation. The same type of capitulation you want to force these people whom Allah identifies as mudhlimin into. Why not, if you can insult Sayyid al-Shuhada (عليه السلام) you can only be pro-dhulm. I also love that you quoted the examples of Imam al-Sadiq (عليه السلام), who, along with his father (عليه السلام) quoted the hadith of the Prophet (saaw) where he states whoever dies defending his property and right dies a shahid and remarks that he would not fight the thief, indicating a personal disposition, not a religious requirement. I also appreciate how this only works when you reduce the Imams' purpose to preserving lives, not hidayah. If that were the case, Imam Amirul Mu'minin (عليه السلام) would not have fought Talha, Zubayr, and Aisha, he would not have initially come to fight Mu'awiyah and would have negotiated with him, he would accepted arbitration the minute he saw the Quran on spears, and he would have repented to appease the Khawarij. I get you're white and you don't like seeing people defend their rights, there's no reason to lie about the Imams (عليه السلام) and insult Imam al-Husayn (عليه السلام). But why not, if you can act like a smart@ss to victims of genocide and literal concentration camp inmates, you can act like a smart@ss to the Imam (report that). No, you only made a prolonged argument for hijra and criticized them for defending their right to "patch of dirt" (while you sit comfortably in...well I don't want you to threaten legal action again) based on your not understanding the Quran in English because you are not advocating for this point. My advice is if you're hurt about being called an insensitive honky, don't act like an insensitive honky (report that). I have Iman, InshaAllah, hence I believe the Muslims who are oppressed will be freed from that despite your constant defense of their oppression and critiquing them as the problem. These questions only work when you ignore the fact that Israel has planned on stealing more land from the Palestinians than even the colonizers were inclined to give them, that Israel has attacked the Arabs to expand their territory (1967 especially) and to frighten the Arabs into submission, and that Israel has never wanted any diplomatic resolution to the conflict let alone a fair diplomatic resolution to the conflict. The Palestinians get sniped when they protest peacefully and non-violently. When children throw stones, they get shot in the testicles or have their heads blown off. What is left? What option do they have? Honestly? You argued that they should just pack up and move on and then said this isn't what you're arguing for. What do you think they should do if you think (without any factual basis) that they have only made mistake after mistake and it's their fault that they are in their current situation. Kadhim, I can only hope I'm wrong and you're not the little worm that you are to me. I can only hope you don't just try to act like a smart@ss (report that) when you know the person you're arguing against doesn't have as much access to the facts, even if they are correct. You have lied and acted like a smug douche (report that) to the victims of genocide. Please be honest instead of this nonsense cover that you were never interested in this topic in the first place. I'll ask you again since you are evidently so poorly read on the matter. Would you like a reading list?
  13. Kadhim, my favorite worm. I missed hearing from you— but I whenever I missed you too much I would read Israeli propaganda to remind me of you and it would help, alhamdulillah. I know you don't want to actually have to deal with the text that you've been lying and distorting facts for months because you don't like Palestinians (or "Palis" as you like to put it oh so caucasianally), and I don't expect you to. It was easy enough acting like a douche to people who didn't know all the facts but knew the liquidation of a concentration camp is bad, but of course you're going to say you just happen to be done now. Anyways, aside from your mischarachterization of how Hamas came into power (leaving out crucial details like the US and Israel backed coup that Fatah initiated or the kidnapping of Hamas officials) I understand sharing a picture from this period of US and Israeli initiated turmoil and infighting within an actual concentration camp amount concentration camp inmates so we can think they're savages makes you salivate. However, the Zionist entity is a nuclear state with international recognition, not a concentration camp and guess what they just did in Tulkarem? Anyways, have a great day laughing at Palestinian children become double amputees because, to quote you, "Without fail, any time anyone tries to treat Palestinians with anything resembling kindness, any time anyone gives them some room to make something better for themselves, they take it as a weakness to exploit and bite." Of course you're right, their children are such rabid animals the only thing you can do is to herd them into a concentration camp and commit genocide. The problem is they were never grateful for the ethnic cleansing and concentration camp they were offered. May Allah never forgive you for putting being a smug douche over the Quran and the religion. Once again, I don't know if I can blame you, being white can be a serious impairment.
  14. At this point, out of all the factual points brought up this is the only one you're addressing, and not just talking about how you believe the entirety of your ire and polemic should be focused on the inmates of a concentration camp. A concentration camp that is treated as a nonexistent entity when it isn't being leveled to the earth. Your ire, in your view based on what you've been arguing for and the positions you've espoused, should not be on a militaristic, genocidal, apartheid state that has never wanted the inmates of that concentration camp to exist on the land of historic Palestine, as a point of policy it has consistently pursued for a century at least. I would like you to concede the following things if you wish to try to sidestep this issue. That you have for 2 months consistently used zionist talking points and hid behind giving people of your community the cold hard facts even if it's a hard pill to swallow. They aren't historical facts and reality. They are distortions or fabrications. Please refer to the above for your treatment of the refugee crisis (including deceptively covering up figures when relying on the age-old trope of radio broadcasts and ignoring material conditions or geopolitics/history, racistly focusing on what you believe are inherent problems with these people instead) or to your credulous acceptance of Israeli intentions to resolving the Palestinian issue. This is as bad, false, and betrays your problem as much as your willingness to accept the lies of the IDF, refer above to the point on al-Shifa hospital being Hamas' Tora Bora, or your willingness to accept their spin, that you are willing to listen to three experts with clear links to the UK/US state departments, Mossad, and arms companies attempt to exonerate them of a single target in their civilian bombing campaign, before an actual investigation, which Israel is aversive to could actually, happen before listening to their own spokespeople, politicians, and generals give the game away lol. You especially should concede that Israel has only engaged in defensive wars against aggressive Arab states when this whole occupation thus this current conflict is a result of an aggressive war Israel launched in 1967. I hope that your evasion of having to deal with the truth of any of these "facts" you've been arguing for the past three months is an indication of your concession that you acknowledge you were wrong. I'm not sure exactly what you've been reading as you claim to be well-read, but I can offer some recommendations if you would like. The only real document the Palestinians walked away from which could be faulted, as Benny Morris tried to do in his history of the 1948 war, was the 1939 White Paper which established an independent Palestinian State in 10 years, a cap on Jewish immigration over 5 years, a limit to land purchases, a cap to Jewish land purchases, and a rejection of partition as proposed to by the Peel commission (which brought this idea of partition and expulsion out of merely Zionist diaries to a proposed strategy among its leaders like Ben Gurion). While many Palestinians were receptive to it, Haj al-Husayni turned it down, and the Zionists were violently against it. Ignoring the issues with the proposals of the document, such as not securing the fate of Zionist immigration after 5 years or the fact that the British government was still overwhelmingly Zionist (Winston "I don't like Africans and Indians, especially Bengals" Churchill who replaced Chamberlin was an ardent Zionist) and they had reneged on their promises they make in desperation to the Arabs before, the essential premise that you have here is false. That there is a middle ground between justice and injustice in a matter of colonialism, and that there is a fair negotiation between an occupier and an occupied person, between the colonizer and the colonized. Certainly, the Peel Commission's partition plan was better than the 1948 partition plan, in Israel only got the Galilee and the coast. The Galilee alone would have seen 300 000 people expelled. What you are talking about is the difference between a Nakba and a half a Nakba, and you are criticizing the people who need to suffer a Nakba or half a Nakba, or a double Nakba as they're going through now, for finding something wrong with the premise that there must be any Nakba in the first place. I can't blame you, being caucasian is an impairment. I will not and it's amazing to me this is your priority right now-- seeing how much effort you've expended towards this. As wrong as they are, they are not the problem. The nuclear state which is subsidized and given diplomatic cover by the US and NATO is the issue. Their apartheid, military occupation, stated desires to annex occupied territories, plans to expel the populations, genocide, routine high-tech slaughter, and stated goal and pattern of ruining peace talks, coming in bad faith, and strategy of ignoring the occupied populations as their conditions worsen at the state's hands and through its policies is the issue. It is not just as much an issue as someone who thinks Hamas didn't commit atrocities on October 7th, it is the entire issue. No, because this for one presumes a centralized plan to create destruction, which can only be concluded from two points. Either the confessions of Hamas prisoners in Israeli captivity. These are entirely not credible to me at this moment (pending further third-party investigation). Israel is known to torture and lie, especially about October 7th (refer to the 40 beheaded babies story, the baby in the oven story, or the current narrative of systematic mass rapes which is far from established and I fear will not be until a third party investigation occurs). Or from observing that many atrocities occurred and assuming this was part of the strategy. Alternatively, after escaping a concentration camp and being much more successful than they were anticipating, individual acts of wanton violence occurred when inmates of a concentration camp escaped and expressed rage in an incredibly destructive and unproductive way. This will be a matter which will be settled by the investigations which will happen as a result of this war. You also fall for the Zionist narrative that Palestinians just do acts of violence and then hide behind civilians (not that they have nowhere else to hide except the strip of land 1% of historic Palestine's size which in 1948 became seven times more densely populated than Denmark and is now the most densely populated place in the word) so that CNN (or Instagram as you said) can broadcast it and garner the cause sympathy. I'm not surprised, seeing as you've been very consistently Zionist in your framing. It is, of course, wrong. Whether you like them or think they're monsters, Hamas had a logic to what they did, seeing as the Israeli policy was normalization of the occupation and blockade on Gaza while going around the Palestinians and trying to resolve the conflict with all the Arab countries, after also de jure annexing the West Bank (when it transferred its administration to civilian control). Hamas, Hezbollah, the US, the UN, and Israel have all indicated whatever their individual goals are for the resolution of this conflict, the status quo which was providing a slow death for the Palestinians as they languished in apartheid, occupation, and a concentration camp to the ambivalence of the world and certainly of you. In any case, since your question is about on whom my moral ire should land, my understanding of this conflict has been shaped by my readings over the past decade. Before understanding the specific facts of the conflict, in high school, I started internally believing on some level that the real issue in this conflict is the Palestinian side or at least Hamas. Of course, they drag people's corpses on motorcycles and have children dress up in military parades with suicide bombers according to the media that my child-mind was constantly being flashed with. I had no idea that for ten years already the Israelis have acknowledged Gaza was a "huge concentration camp". Reading about the history of the colonization of North America was enlightening. I gained an understanding of what the nature of this conflict was: anti-colonial. What the source of the hatred the media and you capitalize on is: colonialism and apartheid. And why the people are behaving the way they do: a national liberation struggle, and what colonialism breeds. I understood that while the fact that Chief Pontiac, during Pontiac's War, directed a confederation of nations to attack 10 British settlements in the Detroit area and kill all British civilians inside disturbed me, the problem in this conflict was not Chief Pontiac or the Anishnaabeg. The problem during the Dakota War was not that the Sioux scalped civilians after murdering them all, it was the colonial policies. If after more than 20,000 civilians were killed due to military action and the imposition of famine by a government that has always wanted to do just this (drive the Gazans into the Sinai and annex the West Bank, not settle the conflict), but your autistic fixation is on the atrocities and not on their root cause or the nuclear state causing them, you're a child. Please be enough of a man and a smug douche to own the things you've been saying and answer, not evade, the points I've made here and earlier. Otherwise, please concede them. I won't ask you to admit you've been engaging in Zionist apologetics, I know you'd never say that. I hope, if you care at all about the Palestinian people on any level as you claim to do, you just meditate on how Zionist your worldview has been.
  15. Not sure what I would expect from a worm other than to slink away after taking a dump on the discourse with bad-faith replies and misinformation, either said unknowingly like an idiot or knowingly like a shill. How did I know you wouldn't be a man and ignore the points I make to continue zionist shilling and being a smug contrarian Sarcasm aside I appreciate that was the only thing you could try to make one of your reddit level comment at. Like I said though, you're great at finding on holding onto the point. You see a colonial apartheid state with a stated intention of total control of the entirety of historic Palestine and a desire to expel the population (having expelled 1, 000, 000 in the 48 and 67 wars). This same entity has worked to derail all peace talks and negotiations since the 70s, as their leaders are saying openly now after historians have written about this for decades, while the Palestinian side (even Hamas, yes those bad guys) adopted a more and more conciliatory position about losing everything. I'm glad after pondering on our religion and insulting all that crossed your path for all the years of your venerable life you proudly and shamelessly say the real problem with the madhlum is they could try to seem more reasonable to an uncompromising dhalim who is on record denying their existence as a people. Thanks, man, after all our interactions over the many years I obviously couldn't done it without you. I've obviously posted a lot since this conflict began. The problem with you is your head is so far up your own rear that I can't tell with you when you're joking or when you really have bought into the delusion you only drop knowledge on us idiots and we need to recite salawat after each time you fart. I'm assuming you're referring al-Ahli, the hospital the Israelis struck twice in the week leading up to October 17th, warned to be evacuated (aware of the impossibility of a hospital doing so), and bombed the vicinity of all during their active bombing campaign of civilian infrastructure in Gaza they purport (and you concur barakallah feek) also hold enough military infrastructure to justify babies rotting in their beds (a la al-Nasr) and elderly kidney dialysis patients from the generation of the nakba dying after not getting dialysis for two weeks. The experts who initially verified that it was most likely not the Israelis for the BBC by three experts. One of these three works as a research fellow for an institute receiving funding from the US State Department, the UK foreign office, the British army, and arms companies. One edits a journal for an Israeli think tank that had a Mossad chief on its board. The last is a fellow at the NATO Defense College and the CFR, the latter of which has on its board the heads of arms companies, banks, and corporations. This is all from analysis of the photos since there is a war going on in the area and real analysis is not possible now. The Palestinian side has, at least ostensibly, welcomed third-party analysis. America and Israel have not been open to it. The only third-party investigation by a human rights organization was by HRW, which also did an analysis of recordings and satellite images of the blast, not the blast itself, and which opened with, "While misfires are frequent, further investigation is needed to determine who launched the apparent rocket and whether the laws of war were violated." I'm glad you, in your being very fair and balanced, equally criticizing the Palestinian and the Israeli side, have already concluded that it's a Palestinian-caused explosion. All of this doesn't matter anyway, most hospitals in Gaza are not functional, and the hospitals in the northern part of the strip have all been besieged (where we had those aforementioned 4 babies verified by HRW rot in their beds after they starved to death, after the Israeli army forced doctors to abandon them). Slink away from having to deal with the responsibility of saying the cr@p you do by saying you're done with this conversation though. Yeah thanks man, that quote really explains away nuclear states committing war crimes on civilian populations. Of course you didn't try to deny their suffering though. You just said things like the Arabs were primarily ("lion's share" to use your words) responsible for the 48 refugee crisis which displaced more than 700 000 people because of radio broadcasts, not the 68 known massacres of Palestinian villages, Israeli terrorism to frighten other villagers into leaving, forced marches, etc. all under a plan, a tokhnith daleth if you will, to cleanse them realizing a known intention the Zionists had for decades by that point. Or that the reason that no one wants the Gazans is because they're just a bunch of stinky savages that can't help themselves. Or that partition plans require the partition of a country from a majority requiring the forced migrations of hundreds of thousands of people (at a time when no one realized how little the world would care about their situation or how 75 years later this injustice would be unresolved), such partition plans were a "sweet deal". Or any of the other Zionist propaganda points you said coming short of Golda Meir saying there is no such thing as a Palestinian or Abba Eban saying the Palestinians never miss a chance to miss a chance. But sure, you're not denying anything. Let's see further down how you'll contradict yourself by saying don't start **** if you don't want it. You shameless worm. I'm glad you look at people who, not realizing the full extent of the brutality of escaped concentration camp inmates going on a rampage after experiencing freedom from their guards for the first time, were happy that they had a rebellion in their concentration camp and experienced hope for at least one day that this deadlock of pretending this crisis doesn't exist is over, and you condescend to how the initial glimmer of hope, after years of watching peaceful protestors and journalists getting sniped, is gone in the face of genocide and man-made famine. They're credulous so I guess it's worth being a smart@ss about. I don't care about any political group in this conflict and neither do the majority of Gazans, the high end of Gazan support for Hamas is always about 40%. From the known and verified atrocities, they acted brutally in a way reminiscent of the sahaba, not of the Prophet and Ahl al-Bayt, and slaughtered civilians. That being said, please don't overlook in your framing that the men who did this grew up in a concentration camp. I keep referring to it as a concentration camp because in March 2004, Giora Eiland, Israeli general and then head of the NSC (Israeli military intelligence), told the US ambassador that Gaza was a "huge concentration camp". And this nearly three years before a blockade the UN characterized as "medieval" which has crippled the economy of Gaza (as Israel has been aiming to do for decades now and has institutionalized in Oslo and elsewhere-- detailed by Sara M. Roy in her book on the economic history of Gaza). This was before Gaza became unlivable as the UN warned it would become by 2020 (3 years ago) in 2012. If you read the report, many of the crucial thresholds for unlivability were effectively here before the war but now Gaza is uninhabitable period. This, once again, being the Israeli plan for Gaza since the first Intifada nearly 40 years ago, with the cover of framing this as the response to Hamas Israel is forced to give only coming after 2005 (once again, as discussed by Sara M. Roy). Giora Eiland, who also said the solution to the Gazan question lay in the expulsion to the Sinai desert in furtherance of the Allon plan in that same leaked cable, is now a military advisor during this current genocide, where discussions about the Sinai have once again come up. Dov Weisglass, the advisor and spokesperson of Ariel Sharon told Haaretz in 2004, a year before Hamas was elected to office, that disengagement from Gaza would "freeze the peace process". Yet you've divined the Israeli intentions, they just want peace, and the Palestinians want war. Just say what that Israeli guy in my Hebrew class told me, if the Palestinians put down their guns there would be peace, if the Israelis put down their guns there would be no more Israel. Wanting to freeze the peace process with what we've seen these past 30 years in exacerbated de-development, isolation, and, plainly, pretending the problem doesn't exist indicates you want peace. Instead, you say the people who are getting shafted by these people who just want you to disappear into the Sinai desert so Haarei Zahav can make beachfront properties on "khof aza", the ones living in a concentration camp, three-quarters of whom are unemployed, who are under occupation by a militant force, who get sniped when they peacefully protest, who get called unwanted stinky barbarians by you, who have no prospects to speak of and who the other said to the American economists working at the American embassy in Israel the goal is to economically destroy them, and you blame the concentration camp inmates for getting bombed to the stone age and slaughtered in their hospital beds by a nuclear state subsidized by the west because of an uprising. In your mind, the repression of black slaves and freemen following Nat Turner's rebellion was justified. In your mind, the slaughter, ethnic cleansing, and genocide of Native Americans were justified because they fought back against their colonizers. In both instances, these oppressed groups committed atrocities. In both instances, their atrocities were symptoms, not the problem. Your analysis is completely unable to take that into account. You just get a smile ear to ear thinking about how they had it coming you piece of filth. "Those cowardly guerrillas and their effective tactics during asymmetric combat against an army committing a high-tech genocide." Like I said, as ever a great source for historical, political, and military commentary and analysis. Yeah, I bet you think you do. Anyways, slink away from having to own the words you said and deal after saying you're just stating facts, not zionist talking points. I'm sure it was really easy arguing with people who deny atrocities occurred period. What can I expect from Abu Safsata?
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