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In the Name of God بسم الله


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Everything posted by Morg

  1. we take our religion from the quran as well as you do. although sources are a bit different. people who are heroes for us may be not so great in your views, and vice versa (example abo lulu) i dont know much of the incident of wheither or not marwan ibn abd al hakam were cursed and exiled. but he was i think in between 5 and 8 years old then, and only his father were exiled. some other brother can surely explain better.
  2. there is one difference between shia jaafri ithna ashari and shia jaafri ismaili before imam jaafar saadiq (ra), ismailis do not believe in imam hassan (ra) to be the imam. am i right? they instead mean that imam hussain (ra) inherited the title after hazrat ali (ra) shia jaafri ithna ashari ali (ra) hassan (ra) hussain (ra) ali zayn ul abedeen (ra) mohammad baqr (ra) jaafar saadiq (ra) musa kazim ali rida mohammad taqi ali hadi hasan askari mohammad mahdi shia jaafri ismaili nizari and mustali (agha khani and bohrai) ali (ra) hussain (ra) ali zayn ul abedeen (ra) mohammad baqr (ra) jaafar saadiq (ra) ismail ibn jaafar mohammad ibn ismail ... ... fatimid caliphs ... druze split ... nizari - mustali split ... ... ... prince karim agha khan (current imam 49th) shia zaydi ali (ra) hassan (ra) hussain (ra) ali zayn ul abedeen (ra) zayd ibn ali yahya ibn zayd ... ... ... different zaydi states ... ... ... last zaydi state in northern yemen, imamate abolished in 1969 imam mohammad hamiduddin imam yahya ibn mohammad imam ahmad ibn yahya imam al-badr ibn ahmad
  3. Morg

    thank you

    no no no , i just want to thank you guys. not leaving here nono
  4. Morg

    thank you

    i just want to thank all of you brother and sister since i came on this site argued with you and discussed the matters which divdes and complete us (sunni and shia) i have learnet alot about both the sects of sunni and shia. its was a pleasure to make friends here and see the small minority of members who not only talk about unity, but express the view with theyr attitude. it is also great to discuss sensitive matters with you guys without starting secterian fight and slandering. i really appresiate that sincerely Mohammad Usman Asif and yeah if anyone from pakistan then please visit the site muziqpakistan. we need some members there to chit chat about our everyday life.
  5. ^^ quran mentions it too. shia of mosa (as) or ibrahim (as) i think the dictionaries and various books also confirms that shia means party, same goes to hizb as in hizb e ihtilaaf = opposition party hizb Allah = allahs party and so on. it could as matter of fact also be hizb ali = party of ali , both words has the same meaning, at theyr origin, but later shia got a more religious twist as shian e ali are known and since they are recognised as the second big sect beside sunnis thereby the word shia in itself refers to shia jaafri ithna ashari and all the groups under the umbrella shia as ismaili and zaydi... while hizb is used more common in arabia as a political group
  6. ^^ once again shia means party. and there was no shia sunni back then, there was a group called shian e ali, partisans of ali / supporters of ali , and there was shian e ... you name it. there was parties and supporters for all the major caliphs in early islam. these groups had no theological difference, but political and matter of leadership was the question they strived for as for what we sunnis were called. the term ahle sunnah wal jamaah and shia jaafri ithna ashari were formed alot of time after the khalifa rashedeen. sunnis had theyr name emerged from the time of imam noman ibn abu hanifa (ra) and until imam ghazali (ra) while shia jaafri formed from the time of imam jaafar saadiq (ra) (from the same time as imam hanifa (ra)) and until the ghaybah sughra of the son of imam hasan askari (ra) imam mohammad mahdi. the term ithna ashari came after the birth (as claimed by shia brethren) of mohammad ibn hasan askari, before that they was either called shia jaafri or other group shia jaafri IHDA ashari (11ers)
  7. was not meanth to write warith deen. sorry
  8. sects and subsects within the sunni jamaah ahle sunnah wal jamaah has four major schools of thought (madhabbs), there used to be more, but the four survived as the major ones. they are following hanbali (imam noman ibn thabit abu hanifa (ra)) maliki (imam malik (ra)) shafei (imam mohammad ibn idris al-shafei (ra)) hanbali (imam ahmad ibn hanbal (ra)) pluss there are kalaam schools which are followed by all the madhabbs, the 2 major ones are the ashariya and maturdiya later on there have been other differences within the madhabbs too, as how much to be spiritual or be logical... this divition has existed since the sahabas time, but they have varied. as scholars like abdul wahaab came the divition became bigger, and they who rejected sufism would clearify themselves as al-muwahedeen, while theyr opponents would calle them wahabis or salafis. the deobandis are muwahedeens but they wollow schools of law. salafis (wahabis) does not follow any particular schools of thought these differens are minor, and mere small theological differences thereby they are called madhabbs, kalaams and tariqats. the other groups which is not a part of sunni islam now, and which got astray are these ones al-jamaah al-ahmadiyya ahmadiyya anjuman ishait e islam lahore parvezi (chaakraalvis) zigri/zikri goharshahi nation of islam warith deen ... .. there are many small sects which have gone away from the mainstream sunni aqeeda
  9. i just want to say that this topic is wonderful. mashallah.
  10. the ibadhis are a small offshot from the old khwarijite sect. they are often called neo khwarijites, something they reject (becouse of the incident of nahrawan) or may be other reason. they got the name ibadhis from one of the early imams of the khwarijite sect. Abdullah ibn Ibadh al-Tamimi, theyr leader suceeded each others in a non blood line, and had the title imams. later on they developed into several imamates. but one of the major powers of them were in northern iran (tabaristan) later on they got power in oman. they also had several kingdoms in northern africa. there is also small population of ibadhites in northern africa (libya) theyr theology depends on much of the basis of violent use (and can thereby be wery similiar to the zaydis in yemen) the khwarijites were early considered a third group other than sunnis and shias. they the khilafate of hazrat uthman (ra) and hazrat ali (ra). theyr attitude is that if a ruler can be deposed by riot/revolution and any male can be a leader not necesarry a syed or a quraishi. today they are lesser militant, this may come from the aggresive teachings of imam ibn taymiyya who used the political teology from the ibadhites. and abdul wahaab who blended ibn taymiyya and ibadhite thoughts. (note that najd is not far away from oman, the area of the gulf had great trade thereby thoughts were shared)
  11. i think it is the same reason as the shias. and as the jews. to pay respec to god. in where we cover our heads. i dont know more than that. although it is a sunnat to wear a green turban
  12. actually all sunnis do that. i am a hanafi, and every masjid i have been into they cover theyr head. either by hats (topi) or a scarf (the arabic one) or a turban... and so on. caps and yankees :D hats are also popular haha majority (99% ) of the sunnis of bangladesh and india are of the hanadi fiqh. the maliki fiqh is found in northern africa.
  13. the actions before accepting islam were of ignorants. they accepted islam and followed the right path. they remained muslims until they died thereby considered sahabas and important sources of hadiths. the allegations against the last person you mentioned is disputed among sunnis. as i have said earlier. our sources may differ and there is nothing we can do about it.
  14. ^^ there are many hanafis who use ashari as qalaam. these two qalaams is used in all the madhabbs. it depends on in which area they live in. these madhabbs and qalaams have geographis and historical significans. as turks were hanafis, and they rules india as mughals, thereby the sunnis of subcontinent are hanafis.
  15. hanafi is not a sect. it is a madhabb inside the sect of sunni. wahabis fall in under the madhabbs as a qalaam , while salafi is considered as a mixture of all madhabbs with wahabi ideologi in the main.
  16. use some common sence. this is not the religion neither the sects of sunni or shia who accept these kinds of actions. it is people with money and no morale. they follow up ignorant rules from old tribes and thereby have it as a integrated part of theyr cultural life, even though islam is the religion in the area. just look at pakistan, people buy pathanis from sarhad to have theym as wives. things like that happens not only in the muslim world, people from europe use to travel to fillipines and thailand to buy a woman and take here back to europe again...
  17. Sufism sufis are often looked upon as the middle way between sunnis and shias. both of the camps who have sub schools in where some of them accept sufis while others dont. the name sufi itself means wool or pure , soof = wool , saaf = pure historians say that the sufi gropings started develope as small gnostic groups with orders (chains of sucesson with spiritual link) these movements grew stronger when islam were hugely damaged by the crusades and the mongol invations. among the most earliest sufis (sufis claim that) was khwaja hassan basri (ra) it is said that he was a student of ali (ra) who again was a student of mohammad (ra) who got the "secret" message thru gabriel (ra) from Allah swt. there is alot of talk about a "secret" message within sufism. and there is also alot of mystisism. you can find elements of other religions within these groupings. there are many orders in sufism. all of them are linked with the living sheikh (leader/peer/sufi/master/grand master) who is linked with his master (who is dead) in an endless chain which relates upto mohammad (saww) there are in main two main groups of sucsession. the naqshbandi sufi order claims that the secret knowledge were passed on from mohammad saww to abu bakr (ra) then to salman farsi (ra) and it continues... while the other sufi orders qadiri, chisti, suhrawardi... have in main the shia imami line which then continues with in main maroof kharkhi and to abdul qadir jillani (ra) and so on... the sufis have a special position in islam. as they respect both all of the sahabas. and believe in the imamate. they mean that the wordly caliphate were just with the rashedeen line, while the spiritual imamate were just with the imami line. thereby they have been seen as the middle ground some sunnis would classify them as non muslims, or innocators. as many practises includes innovation in for example tasawwuf (praying to the dead men) prostration to the graves, believing in miracles performed by ordinary men and so on. these practises are widely spreaf thru out the islamic world in most of the poor and rural areas. in pakistan they are known as bareillys the group opposing thease practises and which relys more on quran and hadith in this matter is found among higher studied scholars they used to be in lesser numbers before but since last century they have grown wery much. they are in pakistan known as deobandis. but sunnis who have four schools of thoughts have both of the groups in every part of the world some shias would also classify sufis as non muslims , or as more closer to sunnis. although there is examples of close contacts between sufis and shias. the safavid shahs were previous from the "sunni oriented" sufi order, which turned to a "shia oriented" sufi order named safaviyyah. they leader shah safavid got military control over iran and later on hise desncendents converted to shia ithna ashari usooli. the clergy network got control of the before divinity of the shah. (thereby the chamber of guardians were made) there is also a schools of though in shia ithna ashari which support sufism. they are known as shaykhis.
  18. these sects come with a saviour , who preaches to be the messiah and try to include as many groupings as possible, in pakistan india area they will claim to be mahdi, jesus, kalki autaar, buddha all in one, just to get more followers. there is always some followers of these sects. but theyr use of propaganda as newly claimed by ahmadi jamaah that they numbered 200 million (not true they are lesser than 5 million or even lesser) the use of the internett, use of symbols in the case of gohar shah. these so called mahdis rely on the main sources from the holy books of bible quraan and other books to justify theyr mahdihood. and they say that soon all will follow them. but then they die and then. the followers choose a leader. instead of questioning why his prophesies were not fulfilled. they choose another leader, or claim they leader is in occultion. in the case of ahmadis they have made a khalifa system of succession. in where the descendents of ghulam qadiyani are chosen as caliphs (note: one of the caliphs of ahmadis also claimed mahdihood) this is also in the case of bahais. which later turned into a global movement (a example of a sucessful mahdi movement with uniterian elements) they have a counsil just like the counsil of jehowas witnesses another form of mahdi movement. every time they preach judjements day they get wrong, but still the followers follow to the next date. in the case of gohar shahi we see that some followers still are gohatshahis even after his death. and they glorify him as godess. well another movement... foretold...
  19. you have to consider that the catholics are 900million and the biggest group of christians, even inside the catholic church there are churches which have many differences in theology, differences as between druzes and ismailis. the hindus have 3 major schools. therefore the religion as a single unit cannot be written although the many books and traditions are singular muslims can be divided into two major groups with sub sects in each. although they vary very little and they have many rites which are common.
  20. there are two kalaams (sub schools) in sunni islam. atleast two becouse some of them perished. early in islam the school of mutazilites developed. they were a middle ground between sunnis and shias while the schools of ashari and maturidi survived as beeing sub schools within the hanafi madhabb some abbasids were mutazilites. but they were later deposed.
  21. buddhism is not strong in china. although they have a big influense from them, buddhism can be found in big masses in mongolia, tibet, thailand, burma, sri lanka, cambodia, laos, vietnam and these coutnries in china we will find most of all atheist who follow the communistic agenda. although many ignore this fact and are followers of the taoist and the shinto religions. same goes to japan in northern korea there is a state religion called juche which is imposed by theyr dictator. although officials claim 100% juche in north korea but there are lesser.
  22. Morg

    links to shia forums

    could i get some nice links to ismaili forums? i want to know more about them. thanx
  23. but bro, wasnt the panzerwaffe the airborne divition of the nazi germany? :o
  24. i know i am repeating myself. and iknow there are a thousands of hadith from the shia side which can contradict me, but we sunnis believe that they did not do any acts which would led to punishment according to sharia. even though Allah swt will be the final judje as he can refuse anyone he wants, and he can forgive anyone he wants.
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