baqar

I wouldn't marry a woman with a bad breath either if she insists on not taking medication to address the problem.

The Prophet (pbuh) would never hurt a fly.
 
On one occasion, when he was angry with one or two of his wives, he stayed away from all of them, in order not to identify the culprit.
 
That is how kind, thoughtful and considerate he was. 
 
Worse still, she does not miss the opportunity to insult the Prophet (pbuh) or undermine his personality.
 
In saying that she did not accept him as a prophet  -  totally out of context - she was deliberately slaking her thirst to insult him.
 
Because it implicitly amounts to saying that his claim to prophethood was false.
 
And that is what, I believe, her intention was.
 
There may be occasions when you need to say something like this loud and clear.
 
But everyone knows that Christians (most anyway) do not accept him as a prophet.
 
There is no need to keep repeating that mantra - and certainly not out of context. I believe the big problem is this site is that the administration does not pay sufficient attention to people trying to insult our most valuable asset - the Holy Prophet (pbuh).  

According to the Gospels, Jesus [a] refers to himself as the Son of Man.

This is what you said
 
 
By any standards of social behavior, to say that the other person's prophet was not a prophet of God is extremely rude.
 
We are aware that you don't believe in Muhammad. There is hardly any need to keep saying that, unless it is your purpose to hurt our feelings and insult us.
 
I don't believe in lots of things about many religions, including yours, but there is a place to say such things.
 
And this is not the first time.  You keep saying it again and again.
 
`If you are not aware that it is rude, I am sorry for you but there is nothing we have in common any more.
 
Cheers

Hi Clynn
 
Is that your style of inter-faith dialogue ?
 
Do you really think we are interested in your opinion?
 
Did anyone ask you for your opinion? 
 
I don't think so.
 
Do you honestly want me to tell you what I think of Christianity?
 
Please don't say 'YES'.  
 
Because you will be shocked. 

From the time I worshipped with a Muslim friend I knew we worshipped the same God.
Many can try to confuse me, but cannot take away what God gave us that day.

Salam. It is nice you liked the videos in general even though you do not agree on every matter with him.. I do not agree with him on the aspect of wine either.. But, our disagreement is not the same.. I will explain it later.. But, the point is, I can not read his mind and tell you if it was his aim to give bad image of christianity, thus claim the superiority of islam (on the contrary, I saw many of his other videos where he interpreted christian beliefs in a way overlapsing with islam. And he is teaching the fact that Islam is the fulfilment, completion of the religion.). But, maybe, in this wine case he understood the incidents recorded in texts that way.. With no bad intention.. I wouldn't know.. But I do know, each and every one of us should question our own aim in interpretations, right? Sometimes we get busy criticizing others, and we forget ourselves.. And it is not limited to interpreting Bible.. I saw some posts on this subforum and on the whole forum also, where Quranic verses were quoted and interpreted in a wrong way for the same agenda.. So, we should be just, right? We should condemn such attitudes in both sides, especially we should focus on ourselves..
 
Ok. I believe all of us can make mistakes.. In studying texts, as you mentioned for the Bible, we should not first have certain agenda and try to interpret the text according to our belief.. We should try to understand what they truly mean.. And it goes for the Holy Quran also. Don't you agree? While studying the Quran, we should ask those who know better to get a more sacred view instead of interpreting it according to our own likes and dislikes (either to use them to confirm our beliefs, or to interpret it in an unacceptable way in order to deny and reject it).. So, we should be fair.. And we should study everything about texts.. the reason of revelations, the conditions, the necessities of the time.. etc. the applications of the laws by the living scriptures (the men of God; Anbiya/Prophets, Aimmah/Imams and Awliya/Saints).. So, we should study all that and we should also ask those who know.. That's why we believe, we should refer to Prophet Muhammad and his Ahlulbayt and the students of their school of thought for the interpretation of Quran.. Right? And we really would like to study Quran with you here, if you agree :) And anyone who is interested could join..
 
Ok.. back to the wine issue.. Prophet Yahya/John not touching wine is mentioned in Luke, 1:15
"For he will be one of the Lord’s great men. He must never touch wine or hard liquor—and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from before his birth! "
 
So, respected Hajj Hassanain Rajabali did not misquote the text..
 
But, I do not agree with him and most of other believers in this issue.. I believe, wine was permitted for some time.. And I believe as the Quran states, Sunnatallah (the traditions of God) and Kalimatillah (the Words of God) do not change but the reflections of Sharia and Ahkaamillah (the application of the laws of God) change according to time and conditions of the people..
 
Here's a quote from Said Nursi I like;
 
 
There are terms in quran which sadly most people do not differentiate.. Three of them are Sunnah.. Kalimah.. Hukm..
 
About Sunnatallah (traditions of God); I don’t think I should explain the term sunnah/tradition.. But, I just want to say, in Quran it is USUALLY mentioned after narrating the stories of the previous nations with stress on how good-doers are rewarded and evil-doers are punished.. And, Allah says, this is my tradition and you won’t find a change in it. (please see ; 17/77; 33/38,62; 35/43; 48/23; 40/85; 35/43 etc. together with the verses before and after them)
 
But, about Kalimaatillah (words of God); as you know, the term, WORD, in Quran is used with lots of beautiful meanings. With the term Word, God means, the religion of Islam (e.g. 6/115), Quran (e.g., 7/158, 9/6), wisdom and gnosis showing the path to truth (e.g. 2/37), Tawhidi and Nabawi (unitarian/monotheist and prophetic) school and line (e.g. 43/28), ideology and school of thought (e.g. 9/40), etc. And the term Word includes the speech of God that is heard (e.g. Quran) but is not limited to it.. There is also words that can be seen and felt.. The words of God in flesh, [e.g. Jesus (3/45); Prophet Muhammad and Ahlulbayt; (e.g. 14/24-25)], and they never seperate from each other (as mentionjed in hadith al-thaqalain)..
 
However, Ahkaamillah (rules, i.e. jurisprudance) change.. And many verses in Quran are about this.. They mention laws.. And Quran clearly states, the laws change.. An example would be Quran 4:160 ‘For the iniquity of the Jews We made unlawful for them certain good and wholesome which had been lawful for them;- in that they hindered many from God's Way’.. Yes, certain things were prohibited to them because of their stubbornness, or in Biblical words, because of their playing the harlot.. Yes, a punishment, but surely with the aim of teaching.. Like a time-out.. And, if such rules were removed again, when the time-out ends, it would not mean contradiction.. (It still is confirmation).. Because, when you think of it, penalties and retributions and sentences when completed or forgiven, are naturally removed.. That is, e.g. when Jesus came as a mercy to the people, such laws, and the so-called laws which were added by Rabbis to the religion, were meant to be removed.. But, some (e.g. jews) denied Jesus and are being still punished.. But, it is not a divine punishment that would teach them and purify them.. It is a punishment that they place on themselves by denying the mercy of God..
 
Ok. As you Christian-Muslim brethren use the word Father metaphorically for God, I want to give an example on parenting. When your child becomes naughty, you mention time-out, and let’s say forbid video games to him/her for a few days. It is not that the video games changed in essence and became bad.. Right? And later you let him play again if he becomes a good obedient boy. And later he grows up, and he feels he does not need to play video games and he should be active in much important issues, as he is not a kid any more. Again, it does not mean the video games changed. It means he does not have time for childish things any more. Likewise, when jews were disobedient, certain things like wine were prohibited to them. And Jesus was meant to remove them for the good boys. None of the these laws change the essence of wine. The wine is still wine. lol. And one of the verses on wine and gambling in Quran, (Baqarah: 219) says, “..Say, "In them is great sin and [yet, some] benefit for people. But their sin is greater than their benefit."” If wine were totally evil, it would not have been allowed for certain days (with the ruling of Prophet Jesus until the end of the first stages of teaching and raising of the people by the Holy Prophet Muhammad). Yes, the essence of the wine does not change (it has good and bad sides. It has benefits and harms. But its harm is more than its benefit), but the jurisprudance on the wine changes according to the time and the conditions of the people. For jews hindered many from God’s way (as in being snakes lying on a treasure, not benefiting from the treasure, nor letting people benefit from it), the wine and other things were banned to them in order to teach and discipline them. Later with Jesus (asm) it was removed for believers (Christians).. And with the Holy Prophet Muhammad (asm), people were meant to grow, they should not have the time for such things.. They need to grow up.. They need to be sober, in oder to think and pray always.. ‘Do not approach prayer while you are intoxicated’ (Quran, 4:43) and later another verse (Quran, 5:90) bans it totally in order for humanity to become wholly mature, in order for their whole time (their every speech and action) become a prayer with soberness.. I hope I make sense..
 
Again, this is my personal view, that I believe, traditions of God (as in creation, and as in his method and approach in shaping his creation, the rewarding and punishments) and the words of God (as in basic teachings of his living scriptures, the method of Prophets and Imams) do not change, but the reflection and application of secondary laws (not the main laws) change according to time and place. Again, this is my personal view. Sorry for rambling. Thanks. Ma salam

Salam Brother, 
 
I have said this on the mod Forum before, but I think it's time now to say it publically. 
 
1) CLynn is here to create FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt) in the minds of muslims regarding their religion. That is the sole purpose of this entity / He / She / Bot , ? 
 
2) Entity / He / She is not here to discuss or learn. Entity / He / Bot  only makes statements , like the 'too many contradictions' statement in this thread, with no evidence, in the hopes that some here who are uneducated or who have no critical thinking skills will accept this or at least this will make them doubt their religion. This is a common technique of Evangelical Christians on a 'fishing' expedition. This is my analysis
 
CLynn, your supposition regarding Prophet Muhammad( may the peace, blessing, grace, mercy and everlasting and ever increasing reward from Allah(s.w.a) be upon him and his pure progeny) is extremely offensive and wrong. If you would like to back up anything you have said with actual facts, I would be glad to discuss, but I doubt you will do that because you know that I can obliterate your conjecture, with the help of Allah(s.w.a), as I have done many times in the past. 
 
If you continue to make your supposition with no facts, you will continue to be exposed more than you already are. 

I cannot approve anyone doing it, 
 
Is that according to the Sermon on the Mount  - to follow the blind ? 
 
 
 
It is obvious that you hate Islam and are determined to express your hatred rudely
 
No wonder that everyone is after your blood.
 
Unfortunately I have no intentions of stooping to the level of others.
 
Good luck in your discussions with everyone.
 
I will seek your leave from this thread.
 
Cheers

Hi Clynn
 
Is that your style of inter-faith dialogue ?
 
Do you really think we are interested in your opinion?
 
Did anyone ask you for your opinion? 
 
I don't think so.
 
Do you honestly want me to tell you what I think of Christianity?
 
Please don't say 'YES'.  
 
Because you will be shocked. 

India and Pakistan (and perhaps some other countries with similar cultures) have an infinite stock of stories like this one. 

India and Pakistan (and perhaps some other countries with similar cultures) have an infinite stock of stories like this one. 

Respected brother, peaceloving, please do not talk about tawalla and tabarra with a person having tawhid issues (tawhid vs. son of God concept) and nubuwwah issues (accepting nubuwwah vs. judaic hate, rejection and attack against Prophets).. If he were seeking knowledge and he tried to be understanding, he would read shia islamic sources, thus not attack shia islam using sunni sources, and vice versa, as in not attacking sunnis using shia sources.. But we know that understanding is not his aim.. Every thread he joins, including the Q&A on islamic jurisprudance, fills with unrelated quotes from the Bible, and turns into 'my religion better than yours' though he does not know his religion either.. Rather he teaches American secularism and invasions (in other words, Godlessness) over the messages of Jesus (or what is left of it). I think there should be a limitation on this. People come here to ask, learn and teach about islam, but every thread is filled with the 'preaching hate on the Unity of God, Prophethood, Guardianship, etc.' thanks to CLynn. We have other Chris tian members, true Christians, and we see the reflections of good morality of Jesus in them. But, sadly CLynn, you are not like them. I think you should be banned or limited to interfaith subforums. I am sorry, back than I suggested otherwise, thinking you were here to seek as you claimed (And please don't tell me 'LET US ALL SEEK', by which you mean we seek something we already have and you don't seek).
 
Tell me you read Quran or any Islamic book suggested here by shia muslims or watched any lecture shared here? Is this the meaning of your seeking? What islamic teaching, gnosis and philosophy did you learn in all this time? Even on politics, what did you learn? Had you learnt, you would not act like a brainless parrot. CLynn, you have no aim to learn here, you have no thought to teach here either. Please refine yourself back to the interfaith subforums, and study Monotheism and Prophethood concepts (maybe starting with reading our suggestions on the Unity of God and the life and beautiful characteristics and teachings of the Mercy to the Worlds, Prophet Muhammad, and the Ahlulbayt http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235020028-booklets-introducing-shia-islam/ ): and even if you don't agree on the issues taught in them, at least be positive in that subforum.

http://www.ibrahimamini.ir/en/book
the english books all are good as introductory books

you are most welcome..
 
Here's another shor one;
 
Pearls of Wisdom, Some of the many Prophetic Hadiths in Shia Islamic sources:
 
http://www.messageofthaqalayn.com/39-pearls.pdf

* like

Hi Clynn
 
Is that your style of inter-faith dialogue ?
 
Do you really think we are interested in your opinion?
 
Did anyone ask you for your opinion? 
 
I don't think so.
 
Do you honestly want me to tell you what I think of Christianity?
 
Please don't say 'YES'.  
 
Because you will be shocked. 

There are heaps verses for compassion in the Quran.
 
The following is specifically about family members, which includes the poor ,beleaguered wife, of course.
 
[64:14]  
 
'Believers, among your wives and children there is (may be) an enemy to you, so beware of them. But if you pardon, and overlook, and if you forgive, surely God is All-forgiving, All-compassionate.'
 
And then there are countless verses about human beings in general, which again includes the poor, beleaguered wife.
 
As just one example, 
 
[3:134]
 
'Those who spend  in ease and in adversity, those who control their anger and forgive men. Allah loves the good.'
 
I find it hard to believe that God would ask Muslims to forgive everyone except their own wives.

I cannot approve anyone doing it, 
 
Is that according to the Sermon on the Mount  - to follow the blind ? 
 
 
 
It is obvious that you hate Islam and are determined to express your hatred rudely
 
No wonder that everyone is after your blood.
 
Unfortunately I have no intentions of stooping to the level of others.
 
Good luck in your discussions with everyone.
 
I will seek your leave from this thread.
 
Cheers

(salam)
 
The Quran is full of them. The word 'full' is probably an under-statement. You cannot miss them.

Salam. Enjoy these great booklets, books and articles. :)
 
Islam;
 
http://www.mediafire.com/view/?odiana6no854skk
 
 
the Meaning of Islam;
 
http://www.mediafire.com/view/?8yadlswr25s87vo
 
 
Basic Teachings of Islam by Ayatollah Dr. Beheshti - 30 pages;
 
http://www.mediafire.com/download/958w317hqqzpqp5/Basic-Teachings-of-Islam-by-Shaheed-Beheshti.pdf
 
 
 
Invitation to Islam by Mostafa Qazwini;
 
http://www.mediafire.com/?u0abtff6pz67asm
 
 
 
God, Man and the Universe by Ayatollah Mutahhari;
 
http://www.dropbox.com/s/vhe0knvwd8gw7ex/Man%20And%20Universe%20-%20Shaheed%20Mutahhari.pdf
 
 
 
Philosophy of Islam by Ayatollah Beheshti and Dr. Bahonar;
 
http://www.mediafire.com/?eeu9657n8ahq8oe
 
 
 
Spiritual Discourses by Ayatollah Mutahhari;
 
http://www.dropbox.com/s/6vzaap7odidtql7/Spirtual%20Discourses%20-%20Shaheed%20Mutahhari.pdf
 
 
the Morality of Prophet Muhammad
 
http://www.messageofthaqalayn.com/44-prophet.pdf
http://www.messageofthaqalayn.com/45-Character%20traits%20of%20the%20Prophet.pdf
 
 
Polarization Around the Character of Imam Ali;
 
https://www.mediafire.com/?0anfzfr03w0o3f7
 
 
Spiritual Journey;
http://www.messageofthaqalayn.com/43-Outcomes.pdf
http://www.messageofthaqalayn.com/glance.pdf
http://www.messageofthaqalayn.com/37-significance.pdf

There are Christians who don't believe Jesus to be God or son of God: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarianism
 
Unitarians believe that main-line Christianity does not adhere to strict monotheism but that they do by maintaining that Jesus was a great man and a prophet of God, perhaps even a supernatural being, but not God himself.[2] They believe Jesus did not claim to be God, and that his teachings did not suggest the existence of a triune God. Unitarians believe in the moral authority but not necessarily the divinity of Jesus. Their theology is thus opposed to the trinitarian theology of other Christian denominations. Unitarian Christology can be divided according to whether Jesus is believed to have had a pre-human existence. Both forms maintain that God is one being and one "person"and that Jesus is the (or a) Son of God, but generally not God himself.[24]

Not at all, Clynn
 
You don't need to discard the rest.
 
All we want everyone to do is not to believe in every hadeeth or explanation that one encounters. 
 
Cheers 

Hi Clynn
 
No, what is practiced is not an indicator of the teachings of Islam.
 
Similarly, what is believed is also not necessarily part of the teachings of Islam. 
 
What is practiced (or believed) varies from sect to sect, country to country and culture to culture.
 
Also, it does not matter what a particular hadeeth says.
 
What is important is whether a given hadeeth is true or not.
 
It is an acknowledged fact that there is a multitude of hadeethes that are false and fabrications.
 
To understand Islam, it is important to weed out the chaff from the wheat.
 
If you don't, you are not talking about Islam, rather about a corrupted form of Islam.
 
Is that what you wish to do? 
 
If you insist on believing every nonsense that is found in hadeethes, you would end up confused and hateful towards Islam more than necessary.
 
Is that what you wish to do?
 
Or do you wish to find out what Islam truly says? 

There are heaps verses for compassion in the Quran.
 
The following is specifically about family members, which includes the poor ,beleaguered wife, of course.
 
[64:14]  
 
'Believers, among your wives and children there is (may be) an enemy to you, so beware of them. But if you pardon, and overlook, and if you forgive, surely God is All-forgiving, All-compassionate.'
 
And then there are countless verses about human beings in general, which again includes the poor, beleaguered wife.
 
As just one example, 
 
[3:134]
 
'Those who spend  in ease and in adversity, those who control their anger and forgive men. Allah loves the good.'
 
I find it hard to believe that God would ask Muslims to forgive everyone except their own wives.