baqar

Thank you Baqar. The point is, it changes nothing. You know in your heart how to worship God. The Quran, the history, the Imams can all help but it really boils down to you and God. When God touched me it changed my life, turned me around, literally physically put me straight on the path, There's no atheist that can convince me there is no God. Since I had the privilege of worshipping with a Muslim, no Muslim can tell me we don't worship the same God. At the same time, anybody in-between can tell me how wrong all my sources are but they can't take away what I've experienced and therefore what I believe.
 
Then again...If you were to ask me what I believe, all I could honestly say is I think I'm getting closer to the truth. I have you guys to thank for that as well.

ILove ,
--- Comments on Imam Ali:
Since you had asked me to review the letter that was written by Imam Ali in Post 82, with instructions to Malik, --- I have begun to do that and will post some of the wisdom, conviction, and personality of Ali, in his time of leadership.
(These are the orders issued by Imam Ali, to Malik when he appointed the latter as governor of Egypt.)
I order you, Malik, always to keep the fear of Allah in your mind, to give priority to His worship and to give preference to obeying His Commands over every other thing in life, to carefully and faithfully follow the commandments and interdictions as are given by the Holy Book and the traditions of the Holy Prophet (s) because the success of a man to attain happiness in this world and in the next depends upon these qualities, and a failure to achieve these attributes brings about total failure in both the worlds.
You must know that a good and virtuous man is known and recognized by the good that is said about him and the praise which Allah has destined him to receive from others. Therefore, make your mind the source and fountain-head of good thoughts, good intentions and good deeds. This can only be attained by keeping a strict control on your desires and yearnings, however much they may try to incite and coerce you. Remember that the best way to do justice to your inner self and to keep it out of harm is to restrain it from vice and from things which the 'self' inordinately and irrationally desires.
Remember, Malik, that amongst your subjects there are two kinds of people: those who have the same religion as you have; they are brothers to you, and those who have religions other than that of yours, they are human beings like you. Men of either category suffer from the same weaknesses and disabilities that human beings are inclined to, they commit sins, indulge in vices either intentionally or foolishly and unintentionally without realizing the enormity of their deeds. Let your mercy and compassion come to their rescue and help in the same way and to the same extent that you expect Allah to show mercy and forgiveness to you.
Do not feel ashamed to forgive and forget. Do not hurry over punishments and do not be happy with and proud of your power to punish. Do not get angry and lose your temper quickly over the mistakes and failures of those over whom you rule. On the contrary, be patient and sympathetic with them. Anger and desire of vengeance are not going to be of much help to you in your administration.

To continue with instructions from Ali, from the letter in Post 82:
Do not give cause to the people to envy each other (man against man, tribe against tribe or one section of the society against the other). Try to alleviate and root out mutual distrust and enmity from amongst your subjects.
Be fair, impartial and just in your dealings with all, individually and collectively and be careful not to make your person, position and favours act as sources of malice. Do not let any such thing or such person come near to you who does not deserve your nearness and your favour. Never lower your dignity and prestige.
Remember that backbiters and scandal-mongers belong to a mean and cunning group, though they pretend to be sincere advisers. Do not make haste to believe the news they bring and do not heed to their advice.
Do not accept the advice of misers, they will try their best to keep you away from acts of kindness and from doing good to others. They will make you frightened of poverty.
Similarly do not allow cowards to act as your advisers because they will make you timid in enforcing your orders, will scare you from handling important affairs boldly and will make your enterprises and invasions timid and timorous attempts. At the same time avoid greedy and covetous persons who would aspire to the position of acting as your counsellor because he will teach you how to exploit the community and how to oppress people to get their wealth. Remember that miserliness, cowardice and greed appear to be different wicked qualities but they all arise from the same evil mentality of having no faith and no trust in Allah.
Select honest, truthful and pious people as your companions. Train them not to flatter you and not to seek your favour by false praises because flattery and false praises create vanity and conceit and they make a man lose sight of his real self and ignore his duties.
You should not treat good and bad people alike because in this way you will be discouraging good persons and at the same time emboldening the wicked to carry on their wickedness. Everyone should receive the treatment which his deeds make him deserve.
Try carefully to realize that a ruler can create goodwill in the minds of his subjects and can make them faithful and sincere to him only when he is kind and considerate to them, when he reduces their troubles, when he does not oppress them and when he never asks for things which are beyond their power.
These are the principles which you should keep in mind and act upon. Let your attitude be such that they do not lose faith in you because a good faith on their part will reduce many troubles of administration and will relieve you of many worries and anxieties. And so far as your confidence and trust is concerned, let it rest with those people whom you have tested in difficulties and whom you have befriended, but you should always mistrust those people whom you have wronged or who have proved themselves undeserving, inefficient or unfaithful.
Do not give up those practices and do not break those rules which good Muslims have evolved or introduced before you, which have created unity and amity among the various sections of the society and which have benefited the masses.

Just as you see the Christian who cannot understand reason and will not accept any argument may try to show that creationism is not true, I see the very same traits in most 'atheists'. There are intelligent atheists who have strong arguments for their beliefs - but these are few. Most people I know are atheists.
 
Atheists are celebrating that their numbers are growing, but do they really know what is happening? They complain that religious folk follow blindly, yet the exact same thing is happening to their own creed. The worst part is that they, and all other intelligent atheists seem to be completely oblivious to this.
 
Atheism is becoming a fashion statement now. The 'modern' life. More and more people are taking to atheism because of the way religion has been portrayed in the media. Christianity has become a symbol of pedophilia and Islam has become a symbol of terrorism. As the days go on, we will have more ignorant atheists who are as out of touch with the truth as the Christian who believes the world is 6000 years old.
 
 

OK  Goomba
 
I believe there is a God because everything around us needs a Cause.
 
I cannot understand how the universe can come into existence all by itself.
 
Explain to me how, if you can.

Hi SoP
 
I understand that and I agree with that teaching as a divine word. But I am afraid Clynn presents it in a manner that seems to gives the impression that 
 
·         God loves everyone equally, and that
·         this teaching is exclusive to Christianity.
 
Neither is true.
Allow me to explain.
 
I think one of the reasons why God created mothers is so that we understand His love.
What do I mean?
Well, if you think about it, the  mother's love has two components - a permanent unchanging part and another that varies mainly with the child's behavior.
A mother loves all her children equally as long as they are babies or perhaps toddlers. 
But as soon as the child shows that he (or she) has a mind of its own, which could defy her,  the other component kicks in.
This component depends on a lot of factors, but in particular, the child's behavior. 
The net result is that the mother's total love, which is a sum of the two components, could vary from child to child.
 
The same goes for God.
There are two components to His love.
In Islamic parlance, one makes him RAHMAN and the other RAHEEM.
One part is equal for everyone.
The other, as in case of the mother, varies.
The net result of the two components is that He does not love everyone equally.
It would clearly be very foolish to expect God to love Adolph Hitler and Mahatma Gandhi equally. 
Don't you think?
 
The other thing to understand about God's love is that God is also just, All-Just.
Despite all His love, He just will simply not be able to admit everyone to heaven.
In other words, some people are bound to suffer immensely.
 
On the second point, it should be noted that neither God's love nor the directive to bestow it on others,  is exclusive to Christianity.
If you ask Buddhists, they will tell you the same thing.
If you ask Hindus, they will tell you the same thing.
And perhaps everyone else.
 
In Islam too, God is the Lord of All-Encompassing Mercy [6:147]
His Mercy encompasses all things [7:156].
And there are literally hundreds of verses announcing God's mercy.
 
So contrary to the impression that Clynn seems to give (perhaps not intentionally) that God's love is exclusive to Christianity, that is certainly not so.
As far as directives to the faithful are concerned, the Quran requires patience beyond anything anyone can imagine. And likewise forgiveness.
 
Just two among the dozens of verses on the subject:
 
[3:134] Those who spend in prosperity as well as adversity, those who restrain their anger and forgive men. God loves the doers of good.
 
[42:37] Those who avoid the great sins and abominations and when they are angry, they forgive.
 
Imam Ali has famously said that God's mercy outstrips His wrath.
 
God's love needs to be understood in its correct context.
 
It is certainly not exclusive to Christianity or to any other religion. 
 
I therefore find that endless mantras of God's love are deceptive and could and do lead to complacency and eventual defiance and then rejection.
 
In my view, the right approach would be to speak of God's mercy and His potential Wrath, both at the same time.
 
Unending exclamations of love, love, love are dishonest and misleading.
The truth is that God could potentially belie all our expectations of that love, love, love.
 
 
And I have no doubt that in case of some people, He will.    

We don't need to prove anything to you unless we invite you to our religion.
 
But we didn't do that.
 
You are the one who has thrown open the challenge. 
 
And we have  accepted. 
 
Now it is your turn.
 
And you need to begin  responding  by proving that God does not exist.
 
If you are unable to do that, all this drama is just a waste of everyone's time.
 
I repeat - we don't need to prove anything to you.
 
We would have needed to if we had invited you to our faith.
 
But we didn't.
 
You are the one who has opened this thread for whatever reason.
 
So get going and bring your proof that God does not exist.
 
Absolutely!
 
Now get started instead of wasting everyone's time.

He is an atheist.
 
Therefore, before finding fault with Islam or another religion,  he needs to prove that God does not exist.
 
The question of Islam being a right religion or a wrong religion comes later.
 
Let him proceed step by step.

Imagine the day we have to publically admit we're not gay...Those who chant peace and love will hate us.

Very apt, Clynn
 
For once, well said

I wish I could agree.
In our minds it's ridiculous and we would never think about it but that is because we are not of those trying to make homosexuality a "norm" in today's society. Lies quickly become truth to the wanting if the right person says so. This is why we see Sochi as the "rainbow" Olympics.

Simply wonderful and inspiring

In 45 Seconds
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EI_T_p_K3o&list=TLwT3hxR_z-xztczygwL-4LX1wQ0y4_Jje

Simply wonderful and inspiring

Dear friend
 
I have very little knowledge of either Biblical history or of Paul's part in it. I can understand some of the objections that non-Christians might have. But I have a feeling that our Christian  friends do find your style somewhat hurtful.
 
All I can say is that if we have concerns about the beliefs of others, ideally we should avoid unnecessary discussion. However, if we must discuss, we should be neither hurtful nor offensive. But as I can see, several people have found your approach a little offensive.
 
I will quote to you two verses of the Quran specifically on the subject of debates and discussions.
 
The following verse is about discussions with people in general
 
[16:125] Summon to the way of your Lord with wisdom and with kindly warning. Dispute with them in the kindest manner:. Your Lord best knows those who stray from His way, and He best knows those who have yielded to his guidance.
 
The next verse is about discussions with People of the Book in particular 
 
[29:46] Do not dispute with the people of the Book except in a kindly manner. Except with those of them as have dealt wrongfully with you: And say "We believe in what hath been sent down to us and has been sent down to you. Our God and your God is one, and to Him do we submit.
 
I hope you will kindly be a little careful in the future

Simply wonderful and inspiring

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiYB7nGKSd0
 
This nasheed was made because of the inspiration of a young sister from Syria. She was caught in the middle of debris from the ongoing violence in Syria and left for dead. When rescuers came to save her, she was more concerned about her Hijab than anything else. 

We don't need to prove anything to you unless we invite you to our religion.
 
But we didn't do that.
 
You are the one who has thrown open the challenge. 
 
And we have  accepted. 
 
Now it is your turn.
 
And you need to begin  responding  by proving that God does not exist.
 
If you are unable to do that, all this drama is just a waste of everyone's time.
 
I repeat - we don't need to prove anything to you.
 
We would have needed to if we had invited you to our faith.
 
But we didn't.
 
You are the one who has opened this thread for whatever reason.
 
So get going and bring your proof that God does not exist.
 
Absolutely!
 
Now get started instead of wasting everyone's time.

He is an atheist.
 
Therefore, before finding fault with Islam or another religion,  he needs to prove that God does not exist.
 
The question of Islam being a right religion or a wrong religion comes later.
 
Let him proceed step by step.

We don't need to prove anything to you unless we invite you to our religion.
 
But we didn't do that.
 
You are the one who has thrown open the challenge. 
 
And we have  accepted. 
 
Now it is your turn.
 
And you need to begin  responding  by proving that God does not exist.
 
If you are unable to do that, all this drama is just a waste of everyone's time.
 
I repeat - we don't need to prove anything to you.
 
We would have needed to if we had invited you to our faith.
 
But we didn't.
 
You are the one who has opened this thread for whatever reason.
 
So get going and bring your proof that God does not exist.
 
Absolutely!
 
Now get started instead of wasting everyone's time.

Nobody who is fallible should rule the whole world. Power is too corruptive. No matter how well intentioned they started, they would become a monster before it all ended.

We don't need to prove anything to you unless we invite you to our religion.
 
But we didn't do that.
 
You are the one who has thrown open the challenge. 
 
And we have  accepted. 
 
Now it is your turn.
 
And you need to begin  responding  by proving that God does not exist.
 
If you are unable to do that, all this drama is just a waste of everyone's time.
 
I repeat - we don't need to prove anything to you.
 
We would have needed to if we had invited you to our faith.
 
But we didn't.
 
You are the one who has opened this thread for whatever reason.
 
So get going and bring your proof that God does not exist.
 
Absolutely!
 
Now get started instead of wasting everyone's time.

We don't need to prove anything to you unless we invite you to our religion.
 
But we didn't do that.
 
You are the one who has thrown open the challenge. 
 
And we have  accepted. 
 
Now it is your turn.
 
And you need to begin  responding  by proving that God does not exist.
 
If you are unable to do that, all this drama is just a waste of everyone's time.
 
I repeat - we don't need to prove anything to you.
 
We would have needed to if we had invited you to our faith.
 
But we didn't.
 
You are the one who has opened this thread for whatever reason.
 
So get going and bring your proof that God does not exist.
 
Absolutely!
 
Now get started instead of wasting everyone's time.

Dear friend
 
I have very little knowledge of either Biblical history or of Paul's part in it. I can understand some of the objections that non-Christians might have. But I have a feeling that our Christian  friends do find your style somewhat hurtful.
 
All I can say is that if we have concerns about the beliefs of others, ideally we should avoid unnecessary discussion. However, if we must discuss, we should be neither hurtful nor offensive. But as I can see, several people have found your approach a little offensive.
 
I will quote to you two verses of the Quran specifically on the subject of debates and discussions.
 
The following verse is about discussions with people in general
 
[16:125] Summon to the way of your Lord with wisdom and with kindly warning. Dispute with them in the kindest manner:. Your Lord best knows those who stray from His way, and He best knows those who have yielded to his guidance.
 
The next verse is about discussions with People of the Book in particular 
 
[29:46] Do not dispute with the people of the Book except in a kindly manner. Except with those of them as have dealt wrongfully with you: And say "We believe in what hath been sent down to us and has been sent down to you. Our God and your God is one, and to Him do we submit.
 
I hope you will kindly be a little careful in the future