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In the Name of God بسم الله

Azadar-e-Ali

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  1. The answer to my original question can come from the following rule which although differentiates khums-paid and unpaid money, allows the expenses paid from khums-paid money to be considered as being paid from new money. I asked if a person can do this, and the rule states that he can. Ruling 1800. If a person does not make any profit at the beginning of a year and spends out of his capital but then makes some profit before the year’s end, he can deduct the amount he had taken from his capital from the profit he earned.
  2. Thanks for your reply, appreciate it. But in order to calculate second year expenses, one has to first know which expenses were paid with money from which the person already paid khums, and which expenses were paid with new money on which khums has not been paid. Without knowing this, khums calculation may become difficult at the end of year.
  3. Just for the interest of other people, here are the rules of Ayatollah Sistani from a different website, with different wordings - clearly showing that money is of two types : -------- Issue 1769: * If a person purchases a commodity with the money on which the Khums has not been paid, that is, if he says to the Shia Ithna Asheri seller: “I am purchasing this commodity with "THIS" money,” the transaction will be in order in respect of the entire property, and Khums will apply to the commodity which he has purchased with that money. And no permission and acknowledgement of a Mujtahid will be necessary. Issue 1770: If a person purchases a commodity, and after the transaction, pays its price from the money from which Khums has not been paid by him, the transaction will be in order, but he will be indebted to those who deserve to receive Khums, for the sum he has paid to the seller. https://www.al-Islam.org/Islamic-laws-ayatullah-Ali-al-husayni-al-Sistani/khums
  4. I have quoted to you the rulings of Ayatollah Sistani and you call it plain nonsense!? Well if that is you what you believe...then really...khuda Hafiz.
  5. The root problem is in this statement because you are not giving any consideration to the fact that a man can have two types of money at any one point in time, one on which khums has been paid, and other on which khums has never been paid. This very important differentiation is highlighted several times in the rulings such as.... Ruling 1777. If a person purchases something with the "actual" money on which khums has not been paid, I.e. he tells the seller that he is purchasing the item with that money,(5) then, in the event that the seller is a Twelver (Ithnā ʿAsharī) Shia, the entire transaction (muʿāmalah) is valid (ṣaḥīḥ), and the item that has been purchased with the money is liable for khums; and there is no need to get authorisation or approval from a fully qualified jurist (al-ḥākim al-sharʿī). Ruling 1778. If a person purchases something and after agreeing the transaction he pays for it with money on which khums has not been paid,(6) the transaction is valid but he will be indebted to those entitled (mustaḥiqqūn) to receive khums for the khums on the money he paid to the seller. --------------- The above rules of Ayatollah Sistani confirm that a man can have two types of ACTUAL money (khums-paid and khums-unpaid). But your entire calculations give no consideration to this very important differentiation and you seem to mix both of them together without knowing which money is khums-paid and which is not. The above rules of Ayatollah Sistani confirm it is NOT THE SAME MONEY. infact your own calculations become meaningless because they make no difference between ACTUAL money on which khums has been paid and the ACTUAL money on which khums has not been paid. If a person doesnt agree with this differentiation of actual money into two different types, then his khums calculation at the year end may be faulty, because he will have no idea which expenses he paid with actual khums-paid money and which expenses he paid with khums-unpaid money. He could end up calculating his khums as much less than what is really due on him.
  6. Wa'salam. Ofcourse, it doesn't. That's why amount at the start of second year is 8000, not 10,000. The 2000 doesn't enter into calculation.
  7. Why 10,000? What happend to the 2000 that he had paid as khums at the end of first year? The total at the beginning of second year is 10,000 - 2000 = 8000. Where is the $2000 khums ?
  8. Thanks for your questions. Suppose $20,000 $10,000 $20,000 He spent $8000 in second year from the money saved from first year $0 Pls tell me how much khums you would think this man should pay, as per your calculation at the end of first year and at the end of second year?
  9. Brother, I have also paid khums all my life. Whether you use Total sum or profit, the calculation you mentioned ignores the basic concept of "property on which khums has been paid". This concept is mentioned in the rule I posted. Pls can you tell which part of the calculations I posted you do not understand or do not agree with? But if you are no longer interested, then that's fine with me.
  10. Let me try one more time to explain it to you, and if you don't understand it, then pls tell me which part of it you don't understand. -------- At the end of first year, you have $10,000. You pay khums on it which is $2000. Now you have $8000 left with you. You spend all of this $8000 to buy a new car. Then in the second year, you get your salaries every month out of which you pay your expenses. At the end of second year, you have $8000. Your calculation (incorrect) (Second year profit - first year profit) $8000 - $8000 = 0 khums True calculation Second year profit = $8000 Khums paid money from last year = $0 ( you used all of it to buy car) $8000 - 0 = $8000 khums applicable this year 8000 x 0.2 = $1600 --------- Your calculation is making an error of $1600 khums which you think is not applicable but in truth it is. Hope this clarifies.
  11. Thanks. Issue 624: All properties on which the Khums has been taken once, payment of Khums another time is not connected to it, except if it incurs growth or it increases in value. ---- The above issue clarifies that the calculation you mentioned of simple substraction of one year's profit from previous year is invalid because it doesn't take into account property on which khums has already been paid or not. I hope you understand.
  12. Brother, thanks but I think you should also read your marjas rules because I am quite clear in my mind that your calculation is not right. I guarantee you that it is not a matter of simple substraction of one year's profit from last year's profit like you stated. I'm afraid if people use this calculation to determine their khums, they are likely to conclude that no khums is applicable on them, whereas in reality khums would be wajib on them. I will inshaAllah myself paste rules of Syed Sistani here which will clarify that khums calculation is based not on profit at the end of year, but on how much money is " khums-paid " from last year and how much is " new money " earned in the current year. If you don't know the amounts of these two types of money that you have at the end of year, then your khums calculation will be incorrect.
  13. I know it doesn't matter, but people often use different bank accounts for money on which they have paid khums so that khums-paid money doesn't get mixed with new year's profit. If it gets mixed, then it will be a problem at the end of the year because you will not know how much money you have which is khums-paid and how much new profit you have on which khums is due.
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