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In the Name of God بسم الله

IgnoranceDiffers4rmLogic

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  1. Like
    IgnoranceDiffers4rmLogic got a reaction from Gypsy in Unity Amongst Shias - Most Important   
    I normally don't post much anymore because I'm quiet stuck in the middle, being a revert that dived into Sunnism going to deep and in that process finding Shi'aism diving to deep then had to just take a step back and try find my feet and try understand how to be a Good Muslim..
     
    I have to admit Good post because I read allot on the forum and do not message allot....
     
    Just a word to All Shias....When I reverted I got into Sunnism allot where I did find it frustarting because its hard to agree to disagree, but one thing I loved so much about Shiaism is that they actually seem as 1 group, and that always were willing to Agree to Disagree...
     
    Even though I don't class my self as a Sunni or a Shia..I know how it feels to Love God, The Prophet and His Family...and I respect the Shia because I know that extra Love for the family can bring every dispute every disagreement in a forum like this and make you all ONE.
     
    Good on the guy who made this POST =]
  2. Like
    IgnoranceDiffers4rmLogic got a reaction from Islamic Salvation in Unity Amongst Shias - Most Important   
    I normally don't post much anymore because I'm quiet stuck in the middle, being a revert that dived into Sunnism going to deep and in that process finding Shi'aism diving to deep then had to just take a step back and try find my feet and try understand how to be a Good Muslim..
     
    I have to admit Good post because I read allot on the forum and do not message allot....
     
    Just a word to All Shias....When I reverted I got into Sunnism allot where I did find it frustarting because its hard to agree to disagree, but one thing I loved so much about Shiaism is that they actually seem as 1 group, and that always were willing to Agree to Disagree...
     
    Even though I don't class my self as a Sunni or a Shia..I know how it feels to Love God, The Prophet and His Family...and I respect the Shia because I know that extra Love for the family can bring every dispute every disagreement in a forum like this and make you all ONE.
     
    Good on the guy who made this POST =]
  3. Like
    IgnoranceDiffers4rmLogic got a reaction from Invoker in Sunni - Shirk And Shiism   
    Firstly, I always point out im not a Shia nor a Sunni so you understand that their is no bias, at a time I was diving into Shias ism and then Sunnism but now I have adopted a more centralised approach of just being a Muslim.
     
    On the other hand,  my understanding is Shia's dont implement every single hadith...I was of the belief from talking with Shia's that if something is written in their books that disagree's with the Quran they dont take the hadith... and I have learnt the Shia way of prayer and It no where calls upon others than Allah, so that Hadith of "O my master Fatima help me" cant you clearly see that it is not implemented because it goes against the Quran, if it was implemented then we would see every shia saying that in there prayers. To be honest I think many Shias are surpised when they even read something like that in there books.
     
    So that hadith where it says Asking fatima "o my master help me", is invalid because the Quran states that you should call upon Allah and only Allah, and when compared to the Shia Salat this is true because they only call upon Allah.
     
    I would just like to add, that when a Shia or sunni reads something from a Shia / sunni book, you dont have to defend it I remeber that @Shia's always came across as more open minded, so when you read something that sounds like Shirk in a Shia book... a shia normally would say "that is not authentic because it goes against the Quran". I dont think there is any shame in admiting that a book has errors within it, end of the day we are all human, and accepting errors in a book shows tollerance if anything, a errorless book can only be the Quran.
     
    A good post but Logic Islam... I think you should have made the post "THIS DOES NOT REPRESENT THE MAJORITY" and condem the belief, because I dont know of any shia saying " O my master Fatima help me" in salat,
     
    as for the Ya Ali is like saying Ya Allah, the videos is 53 seconds, I would like to see what the lecture is about but im not defending it because that does sound wrong because this is not the values of Mohammed, Ali, Hassan, Hussein or Fatima.
     
    Just remember that Hussein died sacraficing his life and children for the Justice, Values and Prayer of the one who he Called upon and that is Allah swt. If saying Ya Ali is like saying Ya Allah, then after every action Hussein on Karbala would'nt be calling upon Allah. But the only person he called upon was Allah
  4. Like
    IgnoranceDiffers4rmLogic got a reaction from HamzaTR in Unity   
    @justTheTruth
     
    I'm not a Quranist, and may I add I didnt get offended by being called a Quranist. Furthermore, I'm not being biased trust me Ive been very crtical of Shia Islam just as I have of Sunni Islam. I must admit I was at a point when I was choosing Sides...(which ive learnt now is not the way)
     
    But if im honest with you im telling you the truth. I've Never hurd Shia Imams Call Sunnis Kafirs but I have hured it the other way around, I merly suggested that this causes friction "You cant Unite against people you consider NON Muslims." So the first step would be for the Sunni Muslims to stand up against Shia Hatered because believe it or not im pretty sure u know this "THEY ARE THE MINORITY"
     
    Myself I am an educated man, it is illogical to expect the first step from the MINORITY. let me give an example:
     
    America vs Sri Lanka ... now who holds the power to end war and to unite America or Sri Lanka any prudent person will say the Majority(America) has the power similar to this situation it takes the Majority which is the Sunnis to take the first step... and that has to be to condem hatred. You cant expect to be in a fight of 1 against 10 and expect the 1 to make the decision for the 10 its illogical...in the real world ratios matter...
     
    BTW about the issues of Islam..Prophet Mohammed pbuh said "Quran Ahlulabayt never go astray" ... now thats the standard me reaching the sunnah will be judged upon ... this doesnt mean I reject hadith which seems Logical but it is the standard which has been set...studying law has shown me when you quote something different from what has been written something is wrong...no double meanings... Im just a Muslim...who got close to Islam when he hurd how Hussain was so passionate about his Grandfathers Religion that he would give his head insted of his hand...that made me open the book straight away.... (this doesnt make me a Shia btw) just a Muslim...
  5. Like
    IgnoranceDiffers4rmLogic got a reaction from HamzaTR in Unity   
    @justTheTruth...
     
    never mind the other guys comment...about the "sunni boys", you will always find some that are just not willing to understand, what your aim is.
     
    From someone who doesnt class himself as a Sunni nor a Shia.. Just as a Revert..with 0 bias... I have to say the door of unity is more open from the Shia side than it is from the Sunni side..
     
    what do I mean?
     
    I always hear Shia's Calling for Unity...I never hear a Shia call a Sunni a Kaffir but im sorry to say I do hear some Sunnis Call Shias kafirs etc..
     
    Unity can only be achieved if one another can tolerate eachothers opinions...and Shias do tend to be more tolerant...yes ofcourse if u praise Yazeed or Muawiyah they wont be but that is natural because the Shia think of the Prophets family as there own...
     
    However, the first step is to stop the "hatred towards the shia", you cant have members of you group spreading hatered towards those you want to unite with, it just wouldnt work. If the major scholars of Ahlus Sunnah stand up and keeping calling for unity and condem those who call Shias kafirs etc... then you can step forward...
  6. Like
    IgnoranceDiffers4rmLogic got a reaction from TheIslamHistory in Imam Ali (A.s) Higher Than The Previous Prophets   
    Brother tbh, that is quiet a big statement and I agree with you that, yes the title of this forum was a bit misleading and can mislead those...its good to agree that we both believe non- are higher than the Prophets and im ACTUALLY representing the whole SHIA COMMUNITY now by saying we believe ALI IBN ABI TALIB is not HIGHER than any prophet...but im also telling you he is higher than any companion in Islam..not because I de value the companions no ofcourse not we LOVE those Sahaba which stayed loyal...one has to say  SAHABI who faught for Islam we are not near the dust of that Sahaba but brother try understand what im going to say next.
     
    What you are doing is any hadith that praises Ali and his values you just say its fabricated...but when I asked you about hadiths raising values of a sahabi like Umar then you have no problem?
     
    why the double standards?...he showed you a copy of the source...trust me WE DONT THINK any HUMAN is HIGHER than that of a PROPHET...but i can see why this forum would mislead others..
     
    but brother why the double standards?--->
  7. Like
    IgnoranceDiffers4rmLogic got a reaction from haideriam in Imam Ali (A.s) Higher Than The Previous Prophets   
    ....

    @Abul Hussain Hassani
     
    TheIslamHistory Narrates from your books...and you narrate from a website called gifts2shiaa... a narrator you have never hurd of will never know his name nor will u know where hes from when he was born and probz when he will return to the LORD.
     
    like the brother has done I've actually done research on this hadith to find that its routes with Fakhruddin al-Razi, and then to see someone refute it by a website called gifts2shias..where the person whos copying and pasting doesnt even know who the articles written by, probz never seen any of the references and claims to be a follower of Mohmmed(pbuh) is quiet....whats the word...hmmm....SAD
  8. Like
    IgnoranceDiffers4rmLogic got a reaction from Ali Musaaa :) in Took Oath Never To M*********   
    What a first Post...
  9. Like
    IgnoranceDiffers4rmLogic reacted to Raven in Disrespecting Sunni Sahaba   
    So wheres the Sunnis? The "good God fearing ones" when these goons happen to appear? Or do they only protest and burn flags when someone drawls the prophets picture? I guess  your not insulting the prophet when you go against his teaching. "One Murder is Equal to the Killing the Whole of Humanity " 
  10. Like
    IgnoranceDiffers4rmLogic reacted to Abu Hadi in Umar, Aisha And Abu Bakr   
    1) Because none of the Imams(a.s) named any of their children Yazid(may Allah(s.w.a) curse him)
    2) None of the Shia name their children Abu Bakr, Umar, or Aiesha because those names have a different meaning today than they did at the time
    of the Imams(a.s). After centuries of Ummayed and Abbasid propaganda, these names became almost solely associated with those specific personalities whereas in earlier times this was not the case. Also, names fall in and out of usage. My grandmothers name is Mildred, which was a very common name in the 30s and 40s in the U.S. Noone names their kids Mildred anymore and to name your daughter Mildred in this time would mean something different than naming her Mildred when it was a very common name. 
     
    and may Allah(s.w.a) bless Muhammad ibn Abu Bakr and Abdullah ibn Umar. 
  11. Like
    IgnoranceDiffers4rmLogic got a reaction from Ameen in Part 2: Imam Ali Against Election Of Caliph?   
    WAIT LET ME JUST TAKE THIS WHOLE THREAD AND TURN IT UPSIDE DOWN....yes ofcourse Imam Ali was apart of the committe..You have to Understand that Imam Ali wouldnt sit on the fence he would be inolved in the affairs, however you just quoted something out of context to make it seem like Ali was apart of this idea and was all up for it. WHEN THE CALIPH calls Ali he would never say NO...much like all the Imam's whenever the caliphate needed help THEY WOULD ALAWYS HELP READ this:
    SELECTION OF UTHMAN
    Umar asked that, after his death, the committee reach a final decision within three days, and the next Caliph should take the oath of office on the fourth day. If Talhah joined the committee within this period, he was to take part in the deliberations, but if he did not return to Medina within this period, the other members of the committee could proceed with the decision. Abdur Rahman bin Awf withdrew his eligibility to be appointed as Caliph in order to act as a moderator and began his task by interviewing every member of the committee separately. He asked them for whom they would cast their vote. When Ali was asked, he didn't reply. When Uthman was asked, he voted for Ali, Zubayr said for Ali or Uthman. and Saad said for Uthman.
    REFRENCE: A Restatement of the History of Islam and Muslims on Al-Islam.org referencing Al-Fitna Al-Kubra (The Great Upheaval), published by Dar-ul-Ma'arif, Cairo, 1959, p. 47
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    @uglyJin - STOP TAKING THINGS OUT OF CONTEXT...any historian wil tell you that ALI WAS INVOLVED IN THE AFFAIRS OF THE UMMAH, however when it came to Shura he may have been their but never participated in shura because like most mulims Ali believed in the verse of the Quran which states:
    And your Lord creates what He wills and chooses; not for them was the choice. Exalted is Allah and high above what they associate with Him.[28:68]
    @uglyJin ANSWER ME THIS NOW....
    Why didnt Ali cast a vote? What was the reason he stayed SILENT?
    You have to undersand THAT ALI did participate in the election to show THAT IM HERE FOR THE UMMAH....However, his silence SPOKE AND TOLD HIS FOLLOWERS IM NOT INVOLVED IN THIS PROCESS BECAUSE ONLY Allah CAN CHOOSE WHAT WE ASSOCIATE WITH HIM ON EARTH...
    Your methodology is flawed you just take the basis... for example, Ali was in commite he went (subanallah) he was involved...why didnt you check Ali's speach what did Ali say during the process of SHURA....he said nothing HE NEVER EVEN CASTED A VOTE! YES HE PARTICIPATED BY BEING THEIR BUT NEVER SPOKE....IF THATS PARTICIPATATION IT IS ENOUGH FOR A TRUE FOLLOWER TO UNDERSTAND THAT IF ALI DIDNT CAST A VOTE...HE DIDNT WANT TO BE INVOLVED WITH THIS IDEA OF SHURA!
    anyways ANSWER ME THE QUESTION
    Why didnt Ali cast a vote? What was the reason he stayed SILENT?
  12. Like
    IgnoranceDiffers4rmLogic reacted to Pedram in Part 2: Imam Ali Against Election Of Caliph?   
    Do you even hear yourself? you say that you're the open minded person here and that you're considering everything logically.
    I never said which theory is right or wrong, all this time i've been saying there are multiple theories and that we should consider them all
    the stronger Shia view is that Imam Ali (as) had no choice but to remain silent and accept the situation (as explained by Imam Ali (as) in Nahjul Balaqa).
    as for what tabatabi has recorded, since you keep talking about logic, think about this, if Imam Ali (as) was only leave his house for prayer (and where do people go to pray? the mosque), then he would see abu bakr at the mosque at many occasions. now how long would it take to shake someone's hand? a week? or 5 seconds? even if we consider this hadith as authentic, Imam Ali (as) is giving excuses not to give baya to abu bakr.
    but on the other hand, as narrated by bukhari, Ayesha does not see this as the reason for the delay.
    great, so you believe Shura is the right way to choose a leader...
    for the sake of the argument, lets say you're right, and Shura is the right way to choose a leader
    but tell me
    how was abu bakr chosen?
    umar himslf says:
    Then there was a hue and cry among the gathering and their voices rose so that I was afraid there might be great disagreement, so I said, 'O Abu Bakr! Hold your hand out.' He held his hand out and I pledged allegiance to him, and then all the emigrants gave the Pledge of allegiance and so did the Ansar afterwards. And so we became victorious over Sa'd bin Ubada (whom Al-Ansar wanted to make a ruler). One of the Ansar said, 'You have killed Sa'd bin Ubada.' I replied, 'Allah has killed Sa'd bin Ubada.'
    so tell me, if people are arguing and shouting at each other and all of a sudden umar shakes the hand of abu bakr (while in between Ubada is almost crushed to death), does this become "consultant and Shura"?
    now if Shura is the right way to choose someone, then why is it that there was no Shura for Umar, and even though people disagreed with the decision of abu bakr, he still made umar his successor? where is the shura now?
    and as for uthman, why is it that only 6 people are chosen?
    the out come was clear, it was clear who would vote for who, why is it that he ordered anyone who disagreed to be killed? is this consultant?
    what happens to the other comapnions? did the Prophet (PBUH&HF) only have 6 companions? why is it that he didn't at least choose 7 so there would at any case be a majority vote for someone? why is it that between these 6 people, Aburahman Auf had a "especial" vote?
    is this the Shura that the Holy Quran talks about? or is this pure hypocrisy?
    these are the questions you have already ignored and failed to answer
    so since Shura is the right way, then tell me, what shura are you talking about?
    and dont give me Imam Ali (as) is "proof" for shura, cus your argument is invalid
    for abu bakr Imam Ali (as) was never present, as for umar there was no Shura anyway, and as for uthman, well all the points i've mentioned above and so much more
  13. Like
    IgnoranceDiffers4rmLogic got a reaction from akramabbas in If Saqifa Was Invalid, Why Did Imam Ali Justify It   
    Common @Saima are u serious are you trying to actually SAY that ayah 33:33 doesnt purfiy the household?....you do know It is OBLIGATORY for every MUSLIM to believe in this....
    OKAY.... loook you admit yourselff... Abu Bakr made a mistake then how can we follow a man who makes mistakes...SHOW ME ANY MISTAKES MADE BY ALI ibn Abi Talib.....show me?
    The fact is the CALIPH cannot make mistakes cannot show double standards... this is what im trying to tell you that saqifa is FLAWED because the person who got ELECTED at saqifa didnt use the method himself....
    so its not giberish it actually shows you that their were DOUBLE STANDARDS...it sounds like giberish because its the truth and it belittles companions...
    BY Allah I dont want to make any companion look lower but the fact it is when you come on the forum try making saqifa look valid, I have to go to the roots of the method of SHURA...
    IF ABU BAKR made a mistake...how can we follow a Man who makes Mistakes...I can give you other examples of him making a mistake...
    @Saima Hadith of The Cloak refers to the Ahl al-Kisa. The hadith is an account of an incident where Muhammad gathered Hassan, Husayn, Ali and Fatimah under his cloak. This is mentioned in several ahadith, including Sahih Muslim, where Muhammad PBUH&HF is quoted as saying the phrase “Ahl al-Bayt” “People of the House” from the second part of verse 33:33 of the Quran; the verse called ‘’Ayat al-Tathir’’ "verse of purfication".
    And abide in your houses and do not display yourselves as [was] the display of the former times of ignorance. And establish prayer and give zakah and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah intends only to remove from you the impurity [of sin], O people of the [Prophet's] household, and to purify you with [extensive] purification.
    [33:33]
    ^^ now lets find out who the AHLULBAYT ARE:
    A narration attributed to Aisha reports: that God's Apostle (may peace be upon him) went out one morning wearing a striped cloak of the black camel's hair that there came Hasan b. 'Ali. He wrapped him under it, then came Husain and he wrapped him under it along with the other one (Hasan). Then came Fatima and he took her under it, then came 'Ali and he also took him under it and then said: God only desires to take away any uncleanliness from you, O people of the household, and purify you (thorough purifying)"
    Sahih muslim 031:5955
    The followers of Ahlulbayt believe IF Allah SWT PURIFIES ANYONE THEY BECOME SUPERIOR OF OTHERS..its quiet simple if you have no BIAS....look they are getting purfied by Allah... thats why we know SAQIFA WAS EVEN MORE INVALID because on EARTH on that DAY only ALI was the purfied one...
    @SAIMA.....WE KNOW THAT ALI IS PURFIED BY Allah....THEN WHY NOT CHOOSE THE PURIST OF Allah'S CREATION TO LEAD THE UMMAH...
    SIMPLE LOGIC...ON THIS EARTH ANYONE WHO BELIEVE IN Allah swt AND THE QURAN WOULD CHOOSE THE MAN WHO WAS PURFIED BY Allah swt...because ALLLAH HAS PURFIED THEM!
  14. Like
    IgnoranceDiffers4rmLogic reacted to nemesis in Christians: How Reliable Is The Bible?   
    (bismillah)
    Fellow brethren.
    Is it worthy of men who embellish faith in God , follow him daily in prayer and pursue righteousness. Yet forget the real meaning of his work . who are we men to dictate what is wrong and what is right what is contradictory and what is not. God did not send his prophets to reject each other but spread his divine message to humanity.
    Understanding these are key rather than to dwell in the what is and what is not .
    If our prophets were with us today do you think in their divine minds would reject and outcast the other .
    May God punish me if I was not just minded, but my love for Mohammed (pbuh) and (Jesus) and all their divine families are ONE. For the reason they are the fruits of The only GOD most merciful.
    Fellow brethren , evil is among us , take heed and follow him , do not stray away as so many have done . as all this will
    Be revealed on judgment day.
    N
  15. Like
    IgnoranceDiffers4rmLogic reacted to pyaro in Umar The Prophet   
    (salam)
    To date, no Sunni has been able to explain how is it that Umar al-Khattab did not even know the basic ruling of Tayammum and what right he had in changing the Sunnah of Muta of Hajj.
    Yet he is the "Great and knowledgeable Umar". Psht

    (wasalam)
  16. Like
    IgnoranceDiffers4rmLogic got a reaction from aliasghark in 'sahaba' Who Had A Private Bar Of Alcohol   
    sunni's dont think this yaseer habib represents shia ism...he's an extermist when it comes to shia islam he has extreme views and his akhlaq is not representative of our scholars!
    some of what he says is true... but his expression by cursing is not allowed..however, some of his points one can understand
  17. Like
    IgnoranceDiffers4rmLogic got a reaction from Kaniz e Zahra in Lady Sakina's Shrine Is Destroyed..   
    Brother pureethics..ive only joined this forum for a couple of months...and I can see me and you are on the same wave...if our heritage teaches us something...its that we have been oppressed since the day the Prophet PBUH&hf was given to us as a mercy to mankind...our patience is what makes us different no matter how much we are oppressed.
    This is where a follower of the Ahlulbayt will always differ from Other Muslims...
    A follower of the Ahlulbayt:
    1. Fear Allah
    2. Always Stay Patience
    3. Will never take matters into his own hand's
    4. Seek the Ultimate Reward(by obedience, intellect & PATIENCE)..
    One should Worship Allah not for the Rewards of HeaveN nor for the Fear of Hell...but for his excellence that he is Worth Worshiping because hes the All Knowing All Wise!..
    Bro we are all Sadden by this news may Allah Guide Those Who Plot against other Muslims.
  18. Like
    IgnoranceDiffers4rmLogic got a reaction from hasanhh in Lady Sakina's Shrine Is Destroyed..   
    Brother pureethics..ive only joined this forum for a couple of months...and I can see me and you are on the same wave...if our heritage teaches us something...its that we have been oppressed since the day the Prophet PBUH&hf was given to us as a mercy to mankind...our patience is what makes us different no matter how much we are oppressed.
    This is where a follower of the Ahlulbayt will always differ from Other Muslims...
    A follower of the Ahlulbayt:
    1. Fear Allah
    2. Always Stay Patience
    3. Will never take matters into his own hand's
    4. Seek the Ultimate Reward(by obedience, intellect & PATIENCE)..
    One should Worship Allah not for the Rewards of HeaveN nor for the Fear of Hell...but for his excellence that he is Worth Worshiping because hes the All Knowing All Wise!..
    Bro we are all Sadden by this news may Allah Guide Those Who Plot against other Muslims.
  19. Like
    IgnoranceDiffers4rmLogic got a reaction from Waiting for HIM in Lady Sakina's Shrine Is Destroyed..   
    Brother pureethics..ive only joined this forum for a couple of months...and I can see me and you are on the same wave...if our heritage teaches us something...its that we have been oppressed since the day the Prophet PBUH&hf was given to us as a mercy to mankind...our patience is what makes us different no matter how much we are oppressed.
    This is where a follower of the Ahlulbayt will always differ from Other Muslims...
    A follower of the Ahlulbayt:
    1. Fear Allah
    2. Always Stay Patience
    3. Will never take matters into his own hand's
    4. Seek the Ultimate Reward(by obedience, intellect & PATIENCE)..
    One should Worship Allah not for the Rewards of HeaveN nor for the Fear of Hell...but for his excellence that he is Worth Worshiping because hes the All Knowing All Wise!..
    Bro we are all Sadden by this news may Allah Guide Those Who Plot against other Muslims.
  20. Like
    IgnoranceDiffers4rmLogic got a reaction from Ethics in Lady Sakina's Shrine Is Destroyed..   
    Brother pureethics..ive only joined this forum for a couple of months...and I can see me and you are on the same wave...if our heritage teaches us something...its that we have been oppressed since the day the Prophet PBUH&hf was given to us as a mercy to mankind...our patience is what makes us different no matter how much we are oppressed.
    This is where a follower of the Ahlulbayt will always differ from Other Muslims...
    A follower of the Ahlulbayt:
    1. Fear Allah
    2. Always Stay Patience
    3. Will never take matters into his own hand's
    4. Seek the Ultimate Reward(by obedience, intellect & PATIENCE)..
    One should Worship Allah not for the Rewards of HeaveN nor for the Fear of Hell...but for his excellence that he is Worth Worshiping because hes the All Knowing All Wise!..
    Bro we are all Sadden by this news may Allah Guide Those Who Plot against other Muslims.
  21. Like
    IgnoranceDiffers4rmLogic got a reaction from Rasul in Sayed Kamal Al-Haidary Is Back!   
  22. Like
    IgnoranceDiffers4rmLogic got a reaction from aliasghark in Brilliant Reply - What Causes Shias To Be Killed   
    nicely said!
    ALL THESE over night scholars just spread hate amongst the fiqh's...they miss the verse which says ......you will answer for yourself and no body else...quiet sad that they cant see their actions cause killings elsewhere!
    They are no better than the ones who oppress they miss the understanding of Patience, Knowledge and Akhlaq....
  23. Like
    IgnoranceDiffers4rmLogic got a reaction from Rasul in Why Do We Sunnis Hate Imam Ali?   
    @Ebn Tie me yeah... ;) before we can discuss let me ask you a question...and from your answer we will understand what position you hold in Islam...ive been reading forums normally no one reads what you say but you getting replies =]
    Sahih Muslim : 020
    Narrated Jabir bin Samura: I heard Muhammad saying, "The (Islamic) religion will continue until the Hour (day of resurrection), having twelve Caliphs for you, all of them will be from Quraysh."
    Who are the 12?...a bit off topic but it will help me understand your stance... because when u say things like "we are system oriented"...which I think is such an ambiguous statement which hardly anyone understands like...how can you be system oriented... a "system" is something with functionality...hmmm care to explain?
    u can orient yourself on jurisprudence but system oriented where did u get that from...like ive seen many people try to act smart but BY Allah that was one of the funniest one's ive HURD
    You also said rather than "hero worship" ... hmm a very big and once again ambiguous statement which has no backing... THE SHIA ONLY WORSHIP Allah...
    lol What the HELL is "we are system orientated rather than hero worship"<--- TOPIC FOR QUOTE OF THE DAY IF ANYONE IS BOTHERED!
    but BY Allah we are dieing to know so please tell us how:
    1. ONE CAN BECOME MORE "system oriented" (looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool)
    2. & how people "hero worship"
    3. in your fiqh who are the 12 successors
    were not going to argue about 12 or imam's or anything i just want to see your list, so we can see if you revere those who oppose Ali to answer the the main topic
    =]
  24. Like
    IgnoranceDiffers4rmLogic got a reaction from Blacknight in Will Shiite And Sunni Islam Ever Reconcile?   
    lol yh we both can agree ahmedis are not the way =] glad to agree with you on something finally bro
  25. Like
    IgnoranceDiffers4rmLogic got a reaction from Hameedeh in Which Ayah Was Revealed First?   
    Basically..I have a friend who's trying to tell me...that the purification was to all the wives etc..i know about the incident of the Cloak...so does he but because the first part discusses the wives he includes the wives...so I was just trying to explain to him that the wives are not who the verse was revealed about when it says purified...I was also checking about the 66 verse to see that if the purified verse was revealed before or after if it was reveled after then how can a purified being be disobedient to the apostle but....then again I don't KNOW WHICH WAS REVEALED FIRST.
    but it does'nt matter anymore...in actual fact neither the Quran or Hadith helped me in this debate....
    The Battle of the Camel...explained it to him and now hes on the same understanding...
    I told him...if Aisha and Imam Ali were both purified....how comes Aisha..declared war on Imam Ali... if your suggesting that both are pure it contradicts Allah SWT's words...meaning that two purfied personalities would cause fitnah between them... and ofcourse not Allah SWT's words would never be contradictory..
    he had no choice but to accept the Hadith of the Cloak....
    its quiet sad the only reason he was actually protecting his belief is because this is what they teach him from the pulpit which in actual fact is quiet sad...because it makes them loose a debate and in actual fact make them doubt their own beliefs because the pulpit taught him something irrational and illogical...
    simple question I asked
    ME: Would two purified souls from Allah swt fight each other?
    he replied: NO, of course not they are pure and with the truth...
    Me: Battle of the Camel...explain....
    Him: I accept Hadith of the Cloak
    quiet simple if you have a logical mind thinking straight.....
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