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Yet again, this thread has turned ugly. Love doesn't come before marriage. What comes before marriage are feelings of attachment and affection. True love comes after marriage. Imam al-Sadiq (as) said: "Love the one you marry, do not marry the one you love." That is not to say marry a random person based on their 'credentials' and hope for the best. Of course there must be some form of 'love' between the pair before marriage. But true love? Nahh.

i would like to say that if i have offended or upset anyone on sc, im happy and you deserve it and you can kiss my ass

(bismillah) (wasalam) "The believer is like a mirror to other believers." - Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) I don't have problems with you - if I see you posting on a thread, I'm likely to read it because you have quality and interesting input. I didn't like you much at first, but after speaking to you in the chat-room a few times, you're a good guy and at the end of the day, you're a brother in wilayat. A couple of things I can advise you on (as a brother in faith who is also guilty of such things and probably worse things): 1) When you make a point, you should use the phrase "in my opinion" a bit more. I know because it's a forum, it should already be obvious that an opinion is being stated by the person posting, but sometimes it's better to mention that phrase, or something like it. You can't say "Sayed X or Sheikh Y is not a good speaker" because that sounds like a statement of fact and it's unfair. If you say, "Sayed X or Sheikh Y doesn't appeal to me personally", then it sounds so much better. 2) (Sort of similar to above) You should accept that there are differences of opinion within the Shia school (I'm not too bothered by Sunnis). For example, the 9 year-old thing, Umme Kulthum's marriage, tatbir etc. All these things have differences of opinion about them. Even if your own view is backed by hadiths, you should still accept that there are other opinions on the same issue which are valid (even if you think they are weak) - you shouldn't brush aside other opinions as if they are insignificant. You are very strong in backing certain claims (which is fine) but you can be TOO strong in dismissing other opinions and labelling them as completely false and deviant automatically. Instead, it would be better if you say something like: "There's a difference of opinion within the school, but I hold X opinion about this issue because of fulan evidence." At the moment, it seems like "I am right, you are wrong. All your opinions are heretic because they aren't the same as mine." I am a strong believer that until the Imam returns, there will be differences of opinion on more or less every issue. So we need to accept it rather than thinking we hold the monopoly on the truth. I think people see you as a person who isn't good at tolerating other's opinions. If you perhaps take into consideration my 2 points, it might change that. Anyway, I am nobody to give such advice but since you asked for it, there it is. No offence intended at all by my post. Wasalaam.

Thoughts: need to wake up early tomorrow, and stay awake so my sleeping pattern goes back to normal :cry:

You're ugly and you stink- no one wants to sit next to you.

(bismillah) I was looking for a thread dedicated to Islamic art but couldn't find one so I thought I'd go ahead and make one for all of the ShiaChat artists here. Here are some things I've painted. Feel free to add your own art on here as well (or any cool pieces you find somewhere)!

(bismillah) (salam) Partly inspired by S.hassan's recent thread that was unfortunately prematurely shut down, I would like to open a thread where some issues people may have with me can be discussed, and insha'Allah some misunderstandings can be cleared up. The reason I would like to do this is that from talking to various people, I have noticed that they often form a certain opinion of me based on my posts, that is not really an accurate representation of my views or behaviour, and then when they actually talk to me they have a slight change of mind. Of course, some people may have good reasons for disliking either me personally, or what I write, and I'm willing to accept that, and to apologise if necessary. So the idea is that anyone who has some issue with me or my approach to posting can tell me what the problem is, and I will either try to correct them if I feel it is innaccurate, give my point of view, or accept that I am in the wrong and try to learn from it. Views from people that generally sympathetic towards my posts are also welcome, if they feel they can contribute something. I am not looking to debate issues that have already been gone over many times such as muta or polygamy, just my approach to posting in general. I am hoping that as a result of this thread, my relationships with certain posters may become more amicable, or at the very least that their will be a better mutual understanding. I am also looking forward to hearing from people I have not previously interacted much with, but who take exception to at least some of what I post. If there any post I have made that you feel was particularly out of line, or disgusting, then feel free to post it as well. Feel free to address me in as harsh a tone as you want, or even to insult me if necessary. I don't mind, and the main thing is people express their true thoughts and feelings, and then we can begin a discussion about it, insha'Allah.

As per the attachement. Come one, come all! Lunch is on us (Sponsored by ShiaChat.com) on Saturday at Al-Batool Center! Program starts there at 12:30 after the Arba'een Procession downtown Ottawa..

I do my fair share of bashing on channels like PressTV, but it's good to remind ourselves of the fact that journalistic standards aren't always that high with the Western press either. You have to wonder what kind of things they could get away with these days with all the modern technology.

I don't know which particular cultural background the OP comes from, but marrying without having an established career isn't exactly easy. Good luck to finding parents hand over their daughter while you hardy have the means to support yourself, let alone another human being. Ideally, what MacIssac stated is correct; the struggling young couple can grow together and later appreciate the tough times. But unfortunately this is not an ideal world, and as stated earlier, hardly any parents will accept a marriage to a man, unless he's financially capable.

Our financial stress should not be expected to become someone else's financial stress. A man is the financial maintainer of his wife. Period. This is for a reason. My interpretation of that is that he does that through his own effort and hard work, not the effort and hard work of others. A man who is ready to maintain his wife is ready for marriage. Reliance and dependence on others will undermine the marriage. Many (far too many) marriages like this end up in divorce as being dependent means others can control and interfere and not always in a good way.

That's fair. But if you think it's pointless, then you don't need to visit the thread. The off-topic forum is precisely for 'pointless' threads. There's a reason why it's the longest thread on the website and that is because most people like it. It's a good way for all the members to let each other know how they are doing and what is happening in their lives (if they wish to share).

(wasalam) Firstly, I do agree. Shiachat is a great place to be, with some wonderful posters and many things to learn. Secondly, I am sad that you view your marriage this way and I do agree that this can be a major problem with meeting people over the internet, as it is difficult to really gauge their sincerity and even their faith. However, you said she is not a bad person at all, and I think in that statements lies a lot of hope for you two. Allah tests his most beloved servants in many ways and this may be an exercise in your patience and akhlaq. My advice to you is to try even harder with her; To always overlook any of her shortcomings and focus on her positives. Any moment you feel dissatisfied, remember how fortunate you are to be blessed with a marriage, and that marriage is a sacred flower in Islam that should be preserved and not destroyed. Remember, divorce is the most despised of Halal acts. Try to rekindle any spark that may have existed between you two. Perhaps go on a short holiday or take a trip somewhere. Even if not that, just always be sweet and kind. Perhaps even try a compliment or some flowers for a change :) I wish you all the best my friend and Insha'Allah it all works well for you! Perhaps you may dislike something and it is good for you, you do not know Allah knows best. May I just add, that if you make an increased effort and be even better with her, you may also make her realise her shortcomings and she will make a concerted effort to change herself as well.

sometimes God closes all the doors and shuts all the windows, during those time think that; maybe there is a storm outside and God wants you safe. when everything is going dark and dim in Life; remember that God is turning off the lights before throwing a surprise party for you. Hope that God gonna do same with Me. :wacko: :yaali:

coming from one of the most unpopular and widely disliked members in sc history....being the bad guy of the forum bloody rocks dont worry about it B)

... You're SD? lol

Why are people so fixated on being biologically ready, and disregard absolutely every single aspect in life and demand ? Yeah sure if we lived in a tent, didnt have to work, survived off my own means, yeah i would get married at 14 but things change over time ! It shouldnt be like that, sure i agree, but unfortunately it is ! So get with the programme !!! lol Salams

The beauty of photographs are that they never change....even if the people in them do... .................... If someone has something bad to say about you, it's probably because they have nothing good to say about themselves.

Because it's the best.

So a guy should wait till he's past his prime, and go through 20 years since puberty, before getting any sexual relief whatsoever? Are you serious? Or is the implication that he "do some stuff on the side", whether halal or not (and likely not involving another person), to tide him of till then? As to the material wealth, people are missing the point it seems. It can be _good_ for a young couple to go through some early struggle together in regards to that. You know, appreciating what you have later because you remember how hard to you had to work (together) to get there? Anyhow, if the brother is looking for Islamic advice: 4353 - Ñæí Úä ãÍãÏ Èä ÃÈí ÚãíÑ¡ Úä ÍÑíÒ¡ Úä ÇáæáíÏ ÞÇá: ÞÇá ÃÈæÚÈÏÇááå Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã: (ãä ÊÑß ÇáÊÒæíÌ ãÎÇÝÉ ÇáÝÞÑ ÝÞÏ ÃÓÇÁ ÇáÙä ÈÇááå ÚÒæÌá¡ Åä Çááå ÚÒæÌá íÞæá: (Åä íßæäæÇ ÝÞÑÇÁ íÛäåã Çááå ãä ÝÖáå). 4353 – It is narrated from Muhammad b. Abi `Umayr from Hariz from al-Walid. He said: Abu `Abdillah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã said: Whoever leaves off marriage out of fear of poverty has thought badly of Allah ÚÒæÌá. Verily Allah ÚÒæÌá says “If you are poor Allah will enrich you of His grace” (24:32) 4354 - æÞÇá ÇáäÈí Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÇáå: (ãä ÓÑå Ãä íáÞì Çááå ØÇåÑÇ ãØåÑÇ ÝáíáÞå ÈÒæÌÉ æãä ÊÑß ÇáÊÒæíÌ ãÎÇÝÉ ÇáÚíáÉ ÝÞÏ ÃÓÇÁ ÇáÙä ÈÇááå ÚÒæÌá). 4354 – And the Prophet Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå said: Whoever it gladdens him to meet Alalh pure, purified, then he is to meet Him with a wife. And whoever leaves off marriage out of fear of impoverishment has thought badly of Allah ÚÒæÌá.

LOL yeah, only if reaching puberty would classify as being "ready for marriage". If those people lived in a (Middle) Eastern wasteland, they'd learn the lessons of life.

Not only that but it will enable you to build a large family AND NOT have to depend on and live off of THE STATE......which is usually what happens to people when they marry too young, they end up living off of the state.

Having an education and a job will make you a very desirable spouse. Since you are already on the path way to get a formal degree please focus on it. Get it fast and quickly out of the way.

So WHY did you say that i must be 50 ? Why couldnt you just ask me how old i am , and if im single, and if im good looking or not, as to answer the "modesty" i display on this forum ? I know you want me 3alawiya, i know you want me, just dont make it sooo hard on yourself sis, you cant win with me, so please, lets just be friends !!!! stop being a third wheel, and be an individual on this site, its alot more fun to be unique, dont try to be like someone, or take sides , its really not right ! Thanks sister your sooooooooo awesome !!!!!!! salam

Hi

Greetings. I dont understand your Statement "temporary relationship = yuck" All relationships on this earth are temporary. The only difference with Mutah is that the end of the relationship is defined by the couple (unless it is renewed) whereas in a traditional Christian marriage the end of the relationship is undefined by the couple but it does end as soon as One of the Partners dies, They divorce, or One of them just decides to leave. In Islam as in Christianity marriage is at the core a contract between the man and women that is sanctified by God thru the scriptures. In Islam we have two types of marriage contracts whereas in Chritianity There is only One. The two types are the Type where the end of the contract is undefined (zawaj tul nikah ) and the Type where the end of the contract is defined by the couple (zawaj mutah). Both These types of contracts are sanctified and defined in the Holy Quran. The contract of mutah is a mercy for those couples who dont have the means or the Intention to stay with each other indefinitely but want to be in a divinely sanctioned relationship where They are living in obedience to God and their responsibilities are defined and rights are protected and any child born of the relationship is legitimate

your nose is off centre

eh exactly thats the only way to experience love. when you are 50 and beyond and your spouse is changing your diaper. Then it will dawn upon you what love really is. you cannot experience it at a younger age ever. you have to be old, wrinkly, saggy, graying hair with dentures to embrace the concept of love. if you experience love at any age younger than it is null and void, because the hormones are raging. Only when you reach menopause and your husband's hair fall out will you be sober enough to know what love is. When your husband starts to chronically fart and has bowel problems and you dont use the air freshner, then you will know what love is. sooooooooo romantic

I enjoy revising for exams and the feeling of relief you feel after all that stress is definitely worth it.

I'll put it this way. There are many uni courses that you would not be accepted for if you do BTEC, thus, for many people who want to do such degrees A-levels > BTEC. Also, education isn't all about the enjoyment. No pain, no gain. In any case, to each their own. People are allowed to like different things. :)

Its funny how you can do nice things for people all the time and they never notice. But once you make one mistake,its never forgotten.

All you've said above is true, but I still wouldn't exchange the subjects I do for any BTEC. My subjects are awesome <3 (though I do go on about the annoyance of exams :P ) Also, in many cases the rewards for doing a-levels are higher than that of BTEC. There is coursework in a-levels as well (DT, eng lit, history etc), depends on the subject or your exams board.. and anyway, I'm much better at exams.

I was hoping you would post, because I do think that you are one of the people I have perhaps been unduly harsh with, so I'll try to explain why I have become like this. From what I can remember the first time we really interacted much was on the thread (I'm pretty sure the mods have edited this thread btw, since I'm sure it used to be longer and there is at least one specific issue that was discussed I no longer see there), which if you remember originally had the word 'rape' in it. Throughout the whole thread, and generally in your posting, you take this attitude that because you find something to be morally wrong, you have the right to use whatever terms you want to criticise it. So you will openly calls something sick or disgusting, with no regard for the fact that many people believe this is actually a part of Islam or that the Prophet (pbuh) really did do or say certain things. Now the problem is you don't actually seem to have much objective support for this type of attitude, and you should perhaps have more respect for the fact that you are arguing against the mainstream position that is well supported from the sources. It's fine to take a different approach to hadiths, or to challenge the ones you have a problem with (I do it myself quite regularly), but as I've said many times, you need to have some kind of objective standard and methodology. I have asked you many times to explain what that is, but you never do. In the absence of any explanation, I have to draw my own conclusions, which juding my your posts seems to me to consist of little more than "I consider this to be morally wrong, the Prophet (pbuh) was morally upright, therefore he couldn't have done or said this". If I am wrong, then please correct me, and explain how it is you approach these issues. On the other hand, my approach is different. I first try to establish with reasonable certainty what the Prophet (pbuh) is likely to have said or done, and then make a decision whether something is moral or not. Since the Quran says he is an excellent example, and the Prophet (pbuh) said he was sent to perfect morality, it makes more sense to me to learn morality from him, rather than to say I already know what perfect morals are and such and such a behaviour is inconsistent with it. If something that was attributed to him could be shown to contradict the Quran or other well-established ahadith, that would be one thing, but I have never seen any concrete examples, just vague references to going against the 'spirit of the Quran', without any detail argument being put forward as to why that is. If you notice in my posts I try not to just give my opinion, or to rely on either emotional arguments or any appeals to a general current consensus. For example, I try not to use emotionally-charged words or examples, or to say things like "Everyone believes this nowadays, and you are considered to be a sicko if you don't. Since you don't believe it, you must therefore be a sicko". I'm sorry, but this is honestly how many of your posts come across to me. My approach is more to use evidence from the sources, as well as logical arguments that are as free from cultural bias or emotion as possible. Now, I'm not claiming I always succeed in doing this, but I do my best, and in fact I often get attacked for my 'coldness'. This isn't because I myself am cold, or have no feelings, it's just that in a rational debate, I don't think emotions serve any purpose. Now, you say you want me to engage with your posts, but I have tried in the past (I spent a long time replying to your posts on that Aisha thread for example, as well as several others). I think the problem is our approaches are so fundamentally different that it is very difficult to find a common ground to engage on. My standards of proof clearly are not the same as yours, since you have rejected any proof I have ever presented. Regardless of all this, one thing I certainly have to apologise for is allowing my disagreements with you on certain issues or in certain threads to spill out into other discussions. There is no need for that, and it's not something I generally do. So for that, at the very least, I apologise.

Hello Abu Hadl, The statement means that I find temporary relationships to be distasteful. True, and a very good point. However, the temporary relationships that Curious Shia implies does not seem to be a temporary relationship of husband and wife who are committed to each other till death, but rather a more temporary temporary relationship. Quoting Curious Shia: "why are the men struggling to find woman to accept this process and why is it not looked upon in a positive way to help out each other? Our community has made it so hush hush and so difficult for the younger generation to understand to differences and the reasoning behind it. Instead of dating and having girl friends why not explain or have a process set up for both sexes to find each other easily. Either at locations or online to keep it discreet." In the above, I find it to be extremely distasteful and more temporary than committed relationships where the commitment runs for life (like parents/offspring) I also view Western ideas such as dating and even worse - friends with benefits - to be extremely distasteful in nature. Too temporary relationships are harmful to society and to raising children, as well as to family integrity/values. Christians believe that God created marriage to be a life-long commitment. Yes sad to say, many marriages end in divorce, but it's not ideally supposed to be that way. Ideally, a married couple is supposed to bless and help each other and travel the journey of life together from the time they marry to death parts them. Thank you for the above explanation. However, I believe that most women of any culture or belief dream of having a life-long commitment with a wonderful man who loves her and wants to be with her throughout their lives, to have children together, and to grow old together. Peace and God bless you

MashAllah! Wow Kam, just wow.

SHATILA BAKERY *_*

Well this is probably gonna be a couple of years from now, but I'm in the process of writing a story (will develop a novel form later), and I will recommend it to you when it's done. It's called "The Price of Tolerance". Inshallah if you're around you may get the chance to read it :)

In my opinion what love should be between a wife and husbad (no im not married lol, just random thought).. Love is an ideal but marriage is what is real, Love is from our lord, If we adhere, it shall be stored, Love is to glimpse heaven, All the way up to seven, Nothing can compare to the love 'of' Him and 'of' them, But you i would love 'for' him and 'for' them.. Agreed? Or any one disagree? Just these days its all 'lust' and not love.. Love comes from god imo. If two people marry for the sake of god and with islam in mind what can go wrong? Half of the problems would disappear right? I actually haven't seen a marriage like that tbh in my family..

i just googled him....ugh nooooooooooooo noooooooooooo no and nooooooooooooooooooooo :S :S :S

I'm not bothered by what people think, I'm just trying to promote greater understanding, and reduce the ill-feeling a bit. In some ways, it would be quite fun to become a major hate figure, but that's not my intent.

It is an innovation which has no basis in actual Islamic teachings. There may be no punishment for it, but there is certainly no reward.

and as for the denying and being lonely part, there are many trials different people go through (in my opinion), for example lets say I want to get married all my life and no one wants to marry me (whether it be permanent marriage or temporary [Mutah]), then I too, even though I am straight, would not be able to act on my desires,and would be "lonely" all my life as all the other ways of acting on my desires would be haram i.e. committing sex outside of marraige, masturbation etc.. however the reason why I personally wouldnt see it as being lonely, is because I would acknowledge that when I die I would get a reward in return for this "loneliness" that I went through, sure I may not have asked for it, however God knows better than us, I am sure that if you did believe in heaven and hell, and you were either straight or gay but never managed to get a partner (either due to someone not wanting to marry you [straight] or it being haram [gay]) and you acknowledged that God would reward you with something massive in return, then even if you did mind, after you died and got that massive reward you would be happy. Our 5th Imam, Imam al-Baqir (as) says that if man knew the reward he got for going through difficulties and hardships he would cut himself into small pieces.

^ looool

BTW your post reminded me of a quote by so-and-so: "When Fatima married Ali, she was well aware that he possessed nothing save for his sword, and his love."

invite guests from other faiths to come and discuss with us in the thinkers forum (so things dont get ugly). the various faiths and sects all have well established websites and memberships. its time we expanded our horizons. pick a group of representatives from our side, tell them to pick a group of representatives from their side, and pick a topic to discuss. start with those haram zadeh on ummah or islamic awakening,