Jump to content
In the Name of God بسم الله

Atheism/Other Religions

Discuss atheism, non-Abrahamic faiths (Buddhism, Hinduism, etc), and other religious/spiritual philosophies. 


2,273 topics in this forum

    • 18 replies
    • 2.5k views
    • 24 replies
    • 1.7k views
    • 8 replies
    • 1.2k views
    • 11 replies
    • 1.6k views
    • 31 replies
    • 2.2k views
    • 85 replies
    • 4.7k views
    • 12 replies
    • 1.5k views
    • 10 replies
    • 1k views
    • 46 replies
    • 3.5k views
    • 83 replies
    • 7.4k views
    • 3 replies
    • 1k views
    • 0 replies
    • 392 views
  1. No belief in duas 1 2

    • 56 replies
    • 3.2k views
    • 34 replies
    • 2.2k views
    • 7 replies
    • 1.3k views
    • 11 replies
    • 1.4k views
    • 4 replies
    • 468 views
  2. Bagua in the Quran

    • 11 replies
    • 1.4k views
    • 0 replies
    • 360 views
  3. How to reply to this argument by atheist? 1 2

    • 35 replies
    • 2.8k views
    • 5 replies
    • 1.4k views
    • 0 replies
    • 381 views
    • 7 replies
    • 1.6k views
    • 0 replies
    • 648 views
    • 18 replies
    • 984 views
  4. Forums for Dawah

    • 1 reply
    • 338 views
    • 0 replies
    • 601 views
    • 20 replies
    • 1.2k views
  5. Gnu Age Masochism

    • 3 replies
    • 882 views
    • 2 replies
    • 328 views
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Posts

    • Salam your statement just a proof of your double standards which previously you have mentioned all Shia books are not Hujjah (proof) for while you have mentioned too weak narrations which in your translation you have created a Thiqa chain by  mentioning all narrators as Thiqa while you have not provided any evidence for calling all of them as Thiqa narrators while  "late Ayatollah Khoei (رضي الله عنه) believes that the chain of  [reproaching] transmission of this tradition is poor (dha’if). "  ;also in shia sources all negative narrations about Mukhatar (رضي الله عنه) has been mentioned due to Taqiyya because Imam Sajjad (عليه السلام) has been under heavy surveillance  & censorship of of cursed Umayyads in order to Imam (عليه السلام) & his followers won't initiate another revolt against them so therefore Imam (عليه السلام) has opposed opinion of some Ghulats likewise Kaysaniyyah sect who accustomed some beliefs to Mukhtar (رضي الله عنه) &  Muhammad b. al-Hanafiyya (رضي الله عنه) . Mukhtar from the Perspective of Scholars Most of the scholars and experts in the field of hadith and biography have chosen the traditions which praise Mukhtar. They have given opinions on these traditions as such: A) The traditions which reproach and criticize Mukhtar are very poor in terms of the chain of transmission.[13] Kashi says in this regard: “It seems these traditions have been fabricated by Sunnis.”[14] [13] Mu’jam al-Rijal, vol.18, p.97. [14] Rijal Ibn Dawood, p.514, This is not stated anywhere in Rjial al-Kashi. Perhaps, Ibn Dawood has had a version of Rijal in which this is said. B) It is very much likely that these traditions have been issued in the state of taqiyah (quietism or dissimulation) only to protect the Imam and the Hashemites from the evils of the tyrant  rulers.[15] [15] Mu’jam al-Rijal, vol.18, p.100 Relation with Imam al-Sajjad (a) There are different reports on al-Mukhtar's relation with Imam al-Sajjad (a). Some reports show that Imam al-Sajjad (a) did not welcome al-Mukhtar and rejected his gifts,[57].[58] whereas other reports show that he was approved by Imam al-Sajjad (a). With the censorship that existed because of the Umayyads and Zubayr dynasty, it was not possible for Imam al-Sajjad (a) to directly interfere. Therefore, he announced that Muhammad b. al-Hanafiyya is his representative and referred al-Mukhtar to him. According to this report, al-Mukhtar sent 20,000 Dinars to the Imam (a), which he accepted, and rebuilt 'Aqil b. Abi Talib's house, and the rest of the Banu Hashims' houses which were ruined.[59] Al-Mukhtar also gifted a slave which he had bought for 30,000 Dirhams to Imam al-Sajjad (a). Zayd b. 'Ali was born from that slave.[60] Another report states that when a group of leaders from Kufa went to visit Imam al-Sajjad (a) and asked him about al-Mukhtar's mission, he referred them to Muhammad b. al-Hanafiyya and said, "Oh uncle, if a black slave shows intolerance for our sake, it is obligatory for us to rush to his help. Do whatever you want regarding this matter, for I have chosen you as the representative in this issue."[61].[62] Ayatollah Khoei[63] and Abd Allah Mamaqani[64] believe that al-Mukhtar had a specific permission from Imam al-Sajjad (a) for his uprising. https://en.wikishia.net/view/Al-Mukhtar_b._Abi_'Ubayd_al-Thaqafi   You have confused by just looking to too weak narrations about reproaching him from too weak nHadith & accusations of Wahabis against him while you have not looked into reliable hadiths which he has been praised .  When it comes to this historical account, it must be said that even if we assume that this claim about Mukhtar is genuine, this event and what he had said dates back to twenty years before his martyrdom.  When we want to judge about someone being good or bad, we should look at his present condition. Although this saying of Mukhtar is not good, it does not change our judgement about his overall character. There have been people in history such as Hurr bin Yazid Riyahi who deserted Yazid’s army and joined Imam Hussein. Just in a few hours’ time, he turned in repentance, achieved eternal prosperity and changed the judgement of history about himself.   Mukhtar’s personality in the narrations The traditions about Mukhtar in our sources are divided into two categories; some of them praise him and others simply reproach him.  A) Traditions praising Mukhtar There are many traditions in the hadith books praising Mukhtar. However, for the sake of brevity, we will mention only three instances: 1. Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) said: “None of the Hashemi women combed and applied henna to their hair until Mukhtar sent the heads of the murderers of Hussein to our family.”[5] Ayatollah Khoi (رضي الله عنه) considered this narration as authentic[6] and it is a clear endorsement of Mukhtar’s action. 2. Imam al-Baqir (‘a) thus said about him: “Do not speak ill of Mukhtar because he killed our murderers, did not allow our spilled blood to be disregarded, gave our daughters in marriage, and at the time of difficulty he distributed properties among us.”[7] It has been narrated that when Mukhtar sent the head of the accursed ‘Ubayd Allah ibn Ziyad to Imam as-Sajjad (‘a), the Imam (‘a) prostrated and made benevolent prayer for Mukhtar saying: "جَزىَ اللهُ المُختارَ خَیراً"  (may Allah reward Mukhtar). [8]   [5] Behar al-Anwar, vol.45, p.386; Rijal al-Kashi, p.127. [6]Khoei, Abul Qasim, Mu’jam al-Rijal, vol.18, p.94, Qom, 1410 A.H. [7] Behar al-Anwar, vol.45, p.343; Rijal al-Kashi, p.125. [8] Rijal al-Kashi, p.128.   Traditions reproaching Mukhtar Here, we shall also make reference to only three instances: 1. Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) said:  “Mukhtar ascribed lies to Imam Sajjad.”[9] 2. In another report it has been narrated that Mukhtar sent twenty thousand dinars to Imam Zainul Abedeen. The Imam accepted the amount and spent it on reconstructing ruined houses.  Then he sent Imam Sajjad another load, a gift,  which the Imam (عليه السلام) did not accept.[10] In another narration, it has been reported that the Imam said: “I do not accept any gift from liars.”[11] 3. Mukhtar is also reproached for his belief in the imamate of Muhammad bin Hanafiyah and for his calling on people to accept him as the next leader. He was allegedly involved in the creation of the Kaysaniyyah sect.[12] [9] Behar al-Anwar, vol.45, p.343. [10] Rijal al-Kashi, p.128. [11] Ibid, p.126. [12] Hilli, Ibn Dawood, Rijal, p.514, Tehran, 1383 (Persian calendar).   Salam this is comparing apples with oranges because that two elders have shown their enmity toward blessed household of prophet Muhammad (pbu) while Mukhtar (رضي الله عنه) has shown devotion & loyalty to  blessed household of prophet Muhammad (pbu) also that two elders have been buried by hijacking inheritance of prophet Muhammad (pbu) by Ayesha while accroding @sunnism & @Qadri_01 prophet Muhammad (pbu) has not left any inheritance while they are praising Ayesha for hijacking inheritance of prophet Muhammad (pbu)  based on their double standards .  Mukhtar’s Enemies Doubtlessly, this fib was scribed by the Umayyid propaganda vizier. However, while Mukhtar had ample external enemies – including the Umayyid caliphs, his rival Ibn Zubayr, and the killers of Imam Husayn – his true enemies came from within, and, in the end, they were the ones who brought him down. While virtually no one, not even the Umayyid governor ‘Abdullah ibn Yazid, could find fault with his desire to take vengeance for Imam Husayn20, the Kufan aristocracy shivered at his other banner: social equality. At the time, Kufan society was highly stratified, with the non-Arabs (mostly Iranian mawali) paying higher taxes and receiving short shrift21. However, as these foreigners joined the fold of Islam, they expected to be treated as equals and were dismayed when they were viewed more as chattel. Mukhtar promised to uplift them, and, unsurprisingly, they followed him in droves. Mukhtar’s equitable treatment towards them scared the nobles, who gathered outside the city and proclaimed22: As soon as Mukhtar’s army had left Kufa, they revolted, forcing kinsmen to fight kinsmen and blood to flow through the Kufan streets23. While Mukhtar quickly put down that rebellion, animosity towards the mawali did not subside. Tragically, during a subsequent battle, one of Mukhtar’s officers tricked his commander into dismounting the mawali; practically none of them survived24. Despite the fact that Mukhtar had once pardoned these Kufan nobles, they ultimately turned against him and sided with Mas‘ab ibn Zubayr, even though he prided himself on being ‘the butcher’. After killing Mukhtar, Mas‘ab then fulfilled his name and executed thousands of mawali25.   https://www.al-islam.org/mukhtar-al-thaqafi-character-versus-controversy-amina-inloes/mukhtar-al-thaqafi-character-versus     Question 094: What is the shia opinion of Mukhtar al-Thaqafi? Answer 094: There are two different opinions about Mukhtar al-Thaqafi. Some commended him and others blamed him. The following are some reliable traditions in which Mukhtar has been commended and accepted by scholars of hadith and Rijal sciences: Based on reports in history books, Mukhtar killed Umar bin Saad and sent his head along with some money to Muhammad bin Hanafiyah. Seeing Umarbin Saad’s head, Muhammad bin Hanafiyah prayed for Mukhtar as such, “O Allah, grant Mukhtar the best of rewards on behalf of Muhammad (saws) and his Ahlul-Bayt[1].” Indeed, according to another tradition which has been related by Kashi in his book, it says, “When Ubaidullah bin-Ziad and Umar bin Saad heads were brought to Imam Zainul Abedeen ((عليه السلام)), the Imam prostrated praising and thanking Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and praying for Mukhtar and wishing him well[2].” Based on a another report by Ya’qubi, Ubaidullah bin Ziad’s head was sent to the fourth Imam, Imam Sajjad ((عليه السلام)) and Umar bin Saad’s head were sent to Muhammad bin Hanafiyah. It was said, “Do not blame Mukhtar, because he killed our enemies[3].” However, there were some traditions in which Mukhtar has been blamed,[4] but most of Shia scholars haven’t approved such traditions[5]. For further information, please read the following answer: Index: The number of soldiers who came to Karbala to fight against Imam Hussain (عليه السلام), answer 568. Index: Enemies killed by Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) in Karbala on the Day of Ashura, answer 598. [1] . Ibn A’tham Kufi, Ahmad bin A’tham,al-Fotuh, researched by, Shiri, Ali, vol.6, p. 247, Dar al-Azwaa, Beirut, 1411 A.H; al-Bedayah wa al-Nehayah, vol.8, p. 274; Balazari, Ahmad bin Yahya, Ansaab al-Ashraf, researched by Zakaar, Suhayl,Zarkali, Reyadh, vol.6, p. 406, Dar al-Fikr, Beirut, 1417 A.H. [2] . The Arabic version of the report is as under: «أَنَّعَلِيَّ بْنَ الْحُسَيْنِ(ع)لَمَّاأُتِيَ بِرَأْسِ عُبَيْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِزِيَادٍ وَ رَأْسِ عُمَرَ بْنِ سَعْدٍخَرَّ سَاجِداً وَ قَالَ الْحَمْدُلِلَّهِ الَّذِي أَدْرَكَ لِي ثَأْرِيمِنْ أَعْدَائِي وَ جَزَى الْمُخْتَارَخَيْراً» Kashi, Muhammad bin Umar, Ikhtiyar Ma’refat al-Rejal, researched and edited: Shaykh Tusi, Muhammad bin Hasan, Mustafawi, Hasa, p. 127, Mashad University Press, first edition, 1409 A.H. [3] . Biharal-Anwar, Vol. 45, Pg. 343. [4] . Bihar al-Anwar, Vol. 45, Pg. 343; Ibid, Pg. 126. [5] . Mojam al-Rijal, Vol. 18, Pg. 100 https://askislam.ir/en/mukhtar-al-thaqafi-according-shia/   Chapter 5: Mukhtar al-Thaqafi Chapter 5: Mukhtār al-Thaqāfī, The Enlightened Messianic Activist, The Shī‘ite Insurrection as Political Reaction, Reparation and Revenge Shi’ite Islam: Orthodoxy Or Heterodoxy? Second Amended and Amplified Edition Luis Alberto Vittor Abd Allāh ibn Saba’ and Mukhtār al-Thaqāfī are presented by Alessandro Bausani as “extremists” [ghulāt]14 and precursors of a political Shī‘ism. Muslim and non-Muslim specialists have long disputed which one deserves the inappropriate title of “founder of Shī‘ite Islām.” The Italian Orientalist briefly refers to ‘Abd Allāh ibn Saba’ as an exalted personality, an ex-Jewish Yemenite who deified ‘Alī during his lifetime. The feeble historical foundation surrounding someone considered to be no less than the “founder of Shī‘ite Islām” should have led Bausani and other contemporary Orientalists to infer that they were dealing with a fictitious character or an insignificant individual whose existence had not even been faithfully documented by the annals of time. It is shocking to learn, nonetheless, that the refusal to recognize Shī‘ism as a historical and meta-historical reality profoundly rooted since the dawn of Islām has led certain Orientalists to discard the strongest evidence in favor of the weakest. In reality, ‘Abd Allāh ibn Saba’ is a literary character, a fabrication of Sayf ibn ‘Umar al-Zindīq [the Atheist or Dualist], a famous falsifier of aḥādīth or prophetic traditions.15   https://www.al-islam.org/shiite-islam-orthodoxy-or-heterodoxy-second-amended-and-amplified-edition-luis-alberto-vittor-14   Mukhtar Al-Thaqafi: Character Versus Controversy Amina Inloes  
    • Sayyid Khu'i (rh) 's view is that the ahadith against him are either ambiguous, weak in sanad or in taqiyyah, or incomplete in their mutoon wherein we get the full picture from the other shawahid. The ones in his praise are more sound in transmission and documentation and more categorical. I don't think there is any 'consensus' among the Twelver scholarship; some simply do tawaqquf on him (like al-Majlisi rh) while the others are in his favour.  Even some of the narrations from the Baqirayn (عليه السلام) indicting him end with the promise that he will receive their intercession despite all his putative blunders and offences, because he rose to avenge al-Hussayn (as)'s blood and took his murderers to the gallows. That hints towards something.  I don't have the references now and this all from memory. I will have to dig them up, and inshallah I'll find the time, but the majority of the material which I am quoting is from his mu'jam al-rijal, and the discussions by his students on Mukhtaar's character. 
    • Is there any hadith appointing Abu Bakr as caliph? This hadith seems pretty clear to me:  
    • This one is only for the elites. 
    • But the problem is that if we don't know how to use a gun correctly, it might even end up becoming a handicap/liability in combat situations. There is also a 'strike first' advantage, and the one on the offensive has an edge. If a mass shooter were to enter a packed masjid or imambargah and start blasting, there is very little that an armed congregation would be able to do in defense. He'll take away enough lives before he is neutralized.    PS- I don't live in the West. 
×
×
  • Create New...