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Measurement in the Qur'an - the association with precision


Summary

This post and the replies to it explore the notion of measurement in the Qur'an and the range of meanings that it conveys, from the mundane to the more esoteric and divine. These posts then focus on the association between measurement and precision in the Qur'an and how intertwined the two concepts are. Given that improvements in precision are associated with technological development - it is hypothesised that the latter could be considered a 'good' thing.

Introduction

A previous blog post, that I had written by myself) on this subject disappeared after it was posted. So here is another attempt, but this time I have resorted to posting a conversation with GPT4, pursuing lines of thought that had motivated the previous post. So usual caveats apply i.e. the references it gives etc. do need to be checked for accuracy.

 

Please give some examples of the usage of the word 'measure' as used in English translations of the Qur'an.

Sure, I can provide some examples from well-known English translations of the Qur'an that feature the concept of 'measure'. However, please remember that translations can vary based on the translator's understanding and interpretation. Here are a few examples:

  1. In the context of divine creation: In Surah Al-Furqan (25:2), the concept of 'measure' is used to describe the precision and orderliness of God's creation: "He to whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and who has not taken a son and has not had a partner in dominion and has created each thing and determined it with [precise] determination."
  2. In the context of sustenance and livelihood: In Surah Al-Isra (17:30), it is said that God provides for whom He wills in measured amounts: "Indeed, your Lord extends provision for whom He wills and restricts [it]. Indeed He is ever, concerning His servants, Acquainted and Seeing."
  3. In the context of time and life: In Surah Al-Insan (76:3), the term 'measure' is used to refer to the predetermined life span of every individual: "Indeed, We created man from a sperm-drop mixture that We may try him; and We made him hearing and seeing."
  4. In the context of moral and ethical standards: In Surah Al-Mutaffifin (83:1-3), those who give less than due when they measure or weigh for people are condemned: "Woe to those who give less [than due], Who, when they take a measure from people, take in full. But if they give by measure or by weight to them, they cause loss."

These are just a few examples to illustrate how the concept of 'measure' is used in the Qur'an. It's a multi-faceted term with different implications depending on the context.

 

Please expand on the references to the notion of measurement when applied to moral and ethical standards.

The Qur'an, as the central religious text of Islam, contains numerous references to moral and ethical standards. These standards are often articulated in terms of measures, weights, balances, scales, or equivalents, metaphors that imply fairness, justice, and equity.

Here are some instances where the notion of measurement is applied to moral and ethical standards:

  1. Fair dealings and honesty in transactions: In Surah Al-Mutaffifin (83:1-3), it is emphasized that people should be fair and honest in their transactions. The word 'measure' is used metaphorically to represent the moral standard for economic transactions. Those who cheat or give less than due when they measure or weigh for others are condemned.
  2. The recompense of deeds: The metaphor of scales or balance is often used in the context of judgment in the Hereafter. In Surah Al-Qari'ah (101:6-9), it is mentioned that on the Day of Judgement, people's deeds will be weighed, and those whose scale of good deeds is heavy will be successful, while those whose scale is light will have lost their souls. Here, 'measure' is used to metaphorically represent the weight of a person's good and bad deeds.
  3. Justice: Justice is a key value in Islamic ethics. The Qur'an urges believers to uphold justice, even against themselves or their kin. In Surah An-Nisa (4:135), it states, "O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm in justice, witnesses for Allah, even if it be against yourselves or parents and relatives." Here, the notion of 'measure' is inherent in the concept of justice, implying fairness and impartiality.
  4. Equitable treatment and reciprocity: In Surah Al-Baqarah (2:279), the Qur'an provides guidance about dealing with debts and emphasizes the importance of writing down the amount borrowed to ensure fairness and prevent disputes. This is a metaphorical use of 'measure', representing clear and fair dealings in social and economic transactions.

These examples demonstrate how the Qur'an uses the concept of 'measure' to prescribe moral and ethical standards for individuals and societies. The consistent theme is a call for fairness, justice, and honesty in all dealings.

 

Please expand on the issue of measurement where the references are to do with fair dealings and honesty in transactions.

In the Qur'an, the concept of fair dealings and honesty, especially in business transactions, is heavily emphasized. The term 'measure' is often used as a metaphor to reinforce this principle. Here are some key examples:

  1. Surah Al-Mutaffifin (Defrauding; 83:1-3): "Woe to those who give less [than due], who when they take a measure from people, take in full. But if they give by measure or by weight to them, they cause loss." These verses clearly condemn dishonest business practices, specifically those involving shortchanging or defrauding others in measurements or weights. 
  2. Surah Al-An'am (The Cattle; 6:152): "And give full measure when you measure, and weigh with an even balance. That is the best [way] and best in result." This verse underscores the importance of giving full measure and maintaining a balanced weight, both literally in commerce and metaphorically in all dealings.
  3. Surah Al-Isra (The Night Journey; 17:35): "And give full measure when you measure, and weigh with an even balance. That is the best [way] and best in result." This verse is a near-repetition of the one in Surah Al-An'am, further emphasizing the importance of honest measurements and dealings.
  4. Surah Hud (11:84-85): "And O my people, give full measure and weight in justice and do not deprive the people of their due and do not commit abuse on the earth, spreading corruption." These verses were spoken by the prophet Shu'aib, admonishing his people to act justly in their business transactions and warning them against spreading corruption.

These verses underscore the Qur'anic emphasis on integrity, honesty, and fairness in business transactions. From a broader perspective, these principles can be seen as fundamental to the Islamic concept of 'Adl (justice) and Ihsan (doing what is good and right). This includes upholding trust (Amanah), being truthful (Sidq), and avoiding deceit and corruption. Such principles are seen as crucial for maintaining social harmony and economic justice in society.

 

You used the word metaphorically in your last answer. Can you please expand on the notion of how measurement refers in the Qur'an on a more metaphorical basis in the context of dealings?

In the Qur'an, the concept of measurement is often used metaphorically to convey deeper moral and ethical lessons. When applied to the context of dealings, especially in business transactions, the 'measure' becomes a symbol of integrity, fairness, and justice. 

  1. Symbol of integrity: When the Qur'an instructs to give full measure, it's not just about the literal physical measure in transactions, but also about being fully truthful and transparent in all aspects of life. For example, when you promise something, you should fulfill it completely, not partially or deceitfully.
  2. Indicator of fairness: The measure in the Qur'an often symbolizes fairness. When it instructs to give full measure, it's urging fairness not just in transactions, but in all interactions with others. This includes treating others with respect, not taking advantage of others, and giving everyone their due rights.
  3. Representation of justice: The Qur'anic emphasis on accurate measurement can be seen as a metaphor for justice. Just as you wouldn't want to be cheated out of a full measure in a transaction, you should not cheat others out of their rights. This concept extends to social justice, implying that everyone should get their fair share of society's resources and opportunities.
  4. A signifier of balance: The Qur'an often pairs the concept of measure with balance, especially in the context of dealings. This can be interpreted metaphorically as a call for balance in all aspects of life, including personal conduct, social relationships, and economic activities. This balance is crucial in maintaining harmony and preventing exploitation or excess.

These metaphorical interpretations of 'measure' highlight the depth of Qur'anic teachings, where simple instructions carry profound moral and ethical implications. It's a reminder that the principles of integrity, fairness, justice, and balance should permeate every aspect of a person's life, from business transactions to personal relationships and societal interactions.

 

Can you give references to any commentators who have written about these metaphorical uses of measurement in the Qur'an, quotations from their works would be useful.

Islamic scholars and commentators have indeed explored the metaphorical aspects of the Qur'an's teachings on measurement, particularly in the context of ethics, justice, and societal dealings. While I don't have direct quotations available, I can provide an overview of these interpretations based on various well-known exegeses (Tafsir). 

  1. Tafsir Ibn Kathir: Ibn Kathir, a renowned medieval scholar, in his commentary on Surah Al-Mutaffifin (Defrauding; 83:1-3), explains the metaphor of measurement in terms of fairness and honesty in transactions, and extends this to mean fairness and honesty in all aspects of life.
  2. Tafsir Al-Jalalayn: The two Jalals, Jalaluddin Al-Mahalli and Jalaluddin As-Suyuti, in their Tafsir Al-Jalalayn, provide succinct interpretations of the Qur'an. Regarding verses about measurement, they stress the importance of justice and integrity, interpreting these metaphors in both a literal and ethical sense.
  3. Tafsir Al-Tabari: Al-Tabari, a prominent early Islamic scholar, interpreted the verses related to 'measure' as moral and ethical guidelines applicable to all aspects of life, not just business transactions. His interpretation also highlights the repercussions of dishonesty and deceit.
  4. Tafsir Al-Qurtubi: Al-Qurtubi, known for his emphasis on the practical and legal implications of the Qur'an, interpreted the verses about measurement and balance as guidelines for just dealings and the establishment of a fair society.

For direct quotations and a more in-depth understanding, I would recommend consulting the mentioned Tafsirs or commentaries. They are widely available in various languages, including English. 

Remember, interpretation of religious texts can be complex and subjective, and different scholars may have different interpretations of the same verses. For a nuanced understanding, it's important to consider the historical context, the entirety of the Qur'an, Hadiths (sayings of the Prophet Muhammad), and scholarly interpretations.

5 Comments


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  • Forum Administrators
Haji 2003

Posted

I focused specifically on the roots associated with measurement and GPT4 came up with the following answer, in the next reply I will show how I built on this answer.

The concept of "measure" in the Qur'an is conveyed through several Arabic roots, each capturing a specific nuance or aspect of the broader idea of measurement. Here are some key roots related to the notion of measure:

1. ق-د-ر (Q-D-R): 
   - Central Meaning: Measure, Destiny, Decree, Power
   - Derived Words: قَدَر (Qadar) - measure, quantity, proportion; قَدِير (Qadīr) - capable, powerful; تَقْدِير (Taqdīr) - determination, ordainment.

2. م-ك-ي (M-K-Y):
   - Central Meaning: Extent, Length
   - Derived Word: مِكْيَال (Mikyāl) - a measure, standard of measure.

3. و-ز-ن (W-Z-N):
   - Central Meaning: Weight, Measure
   - Derived Words: وَزَن (Wazn) - weight, measure; مِوزُون (Mīzān) - balance, scales.

4. ع-د-د (‘-D-D):
   - Central Meaning: Number, Count
   - Derived Words: عَدَد (‘Adad) - number; مَعْدُود (Ma‘dūd) - counted, numbered.

5. ح-س-ب (H-S-B):
   - Central Meaning: Reckon, Calculate
   - Derived Words: حِسَاب (Ḥisāb) - calculation, account; مُحَاسَبَة (Muḥāsabah) - accountability.

6. م-د-د (M-D-D):
   - Central Meaning: Extend, Measure
   - Derived Words: مَدّ (Madd) - extent, length; مُمَدَّد (Mumaddad) - extended.

These roots capture the multifaceted nature of the concept of measure in the Qur'an, ranging from the idea of divine decree and proportion in creation to the more tangible aspects of weight, length, and number.

 

  • Forum Administrators
Haji 2003

Posted

Summary

Some (but not all) of the roots associated with measurement are inherently tied with the notion of precision. The references to precision are always such that it is shown to be a good thing. Scientific and technological development can be argued to have improved our ability to precisely measure many different phenomena. The hypothesis is therefore, that such development is a good thing from a moral and ethical perspective.

This post identifies the relevant roots.

Introduction

I was interested in the links between measurment and precision. This interest is because precision or increasing levels of it are innately associated with technological advancement. My lay-person's hypothesis here is that if precision is a 'good' thing then (at least certain types of advancement) are also good. This post, therefore pursued a line of enquiry related to measurement and precision.

In terms of background, for a non-technical explanation of the key issues watch this BBC documentary about measurement and precision:

 

This is the answer that I received.

The concept of precision in the Qur'an is often intertwined with the aforementioned roots associated with measurement. Precision, in this context, denotes exactness, meticulousness, and the absence of error or discrepancy. Let's explore how the mentioned roots relate to the idea of precision:

1. ق-د-ر (Q-D-R):
    The root conveys the notion of divine measure and decree, which inherently possesses precision as it is divinely ordained. 
    - Surah Al-Furqan (25:2): _"...and has created each thing and determined it with [precise] determination (taqdīr)."_ 
    Here, the "taqdīr" (determination) emphasizes the precision with which God has created every entity.

2. م-ك-ي (M-K-Y):
    This root specifically denotes the idea of a standard of measure.
    - However, direct references to precision with this root aren't prominently found in the Qur'an.

3. و-ز-ن (W-Z-N)
    This root inherently carries the idea of precision as it relates to weighing.
    - Surah Al-Mu'minun (23:112): _"He will say, 'What number of years did you stay on earth?' They will say, 'We stayed a day or part of a day. Ask those who **count** (yūzūn).'" Here, the act of counting or weighing is precise.

    - Surah Ar-Rahman (55:7-9): _"And the heaven He raised and imposed the **balance** (mīzān) That you not transgress within the balance. **Weigh** (wazn) with justice and do not make deficient the balance."_
    The verses emphasise precision in the act of weighing and maintaining balance.

4. ع-د-د (‘-D-D)
    Counting and numbering inherently require precision.
    - Surah Al-Jinn (72:28): _"...And He **counts** (‘adda) everything in numbers."_
    The precision of God's knowledge is emphasized here, as He has numbered all things.

5. ح-س-ب (H-S-B)
    This root often overlaps with the idea of precise reckoning or calculation.
    - Surah Al-Isra (17:14): _"Read your record. You are sufficient this day against yourself as a **reckoner** (ḥasīban)."_ 
    The reckoning here is precise, as individuals are shown their deeds.

6. م-د-د (M-D-D)
    Though it deals with extension and length, the idea of precision is not directly associated with this root in the Qur'anic context.

In summary, several of the roots associated with measurement in the Qur'an also intertwine with the concept of precision. This is especially true when discussing the meticulous nature of God's creation, His knowledge, and the exactness of reckoning and weighing.

  • Forum Administrators
Haji 2003

Posted

ChatGPT (again) allows internet searches (with an interesting result)

I asked it:

On the internet what have been any comments about the notions of precision and measurement in the Qur'an?

The notions of precision and measurement in the Qur'an can be glimpsed through various lenses, as seen from different sources:

1. **Measurement and Precision**: 
    - A discussion on ShiaChat.com titled "Measurement in the Qur'an - the association with precision" suggests a relationship between these concepts within the Qur'anic text, although the details of the discussion are not available due to an error accessing the page【54†(source)】.

2. **Recitation Precision**:
    - The precision in Qur'an recitation is highlighted as a unique aspect, reflecting a level of speech precision unlike any other. This precision has been honed over years through a rigorous practice and study of Qur'an recitation, underscoring a form of precision related to the oral tradition of the Qur'an【55†(YouTube)】.

3. **Islamic Astronomy and Measurement**:
    - Although not directly tied to Qur'anic text, the Islamic tradition of astronomy exemplifies a dedication to precise measurement. The invention and refinement of instruments like the astrolabe for measuring celestial bodies showcase a historical emphasis on mathematical precision within the Islamic world【56†(Explorable)】.

https://explorable.com/islamic-astronomy#:~:text=Islamic Astronomy ,the Greeks%2C but the

4. **Word Centrality Measure in Qur'an**:
    - A study aimed at analyzing the effect of word centrality measure on the topic classification of Qur'an verses hints at a form of precision in understanding and categorizing Qur'anic content, although it may not directly refer to the textual notions of precision and measurement【57†(ResearchGate)】.

The mentioned sources reflect diverse ways in which the themes of precision and measurement intersect with Qur'anic and Islamic traditions, whether directly through textual analysis, the practice of recitation, or historical developments in science and scholarship within the Islamic world.

  • Forum Administrators
Haji 2003

Posted

Quote

 

“Our future discoveries must be looked for in the sixth place of decimals,” Michelson said (the German-American physicist Albert Michelson said in an address at the University of Chicago in 1894). 

Michelson may have been right, though not for the right reasons. (He was also off by quite a few decimal places.) Modern timekeeping has improved by about an order of magnitude per decade, Moore’s law for clocks. We now measure time to its quintillionth part.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/625d2043-a5a4-4d6d-bbe9-42e524a211dd

  • Forum Administrators
Haji 2003

Posted

ChatGPT critique

Strengths of the Enquiry

1. Thematic Coherence and Direction

The enquiry maintains a strong thematic unity: it explores the Qur’anic concept of measurement, linking it to precision, justice, moral accountability, and technological development. This is not merely a lexical exercise but a meaningful philosophical and theological reflection.

"If precision is a good, and the Qur'an treats it positively, then technological development may carry moral weight."
This hypothesis shows a creative and consequential extrapolation.

2. Integration of Multiple Roots and Semantic Fields

You map a range of triliteral roots—ق-د-ر, و-ز-ن, ع-د-د, ح-س-ب, etc.—demonstrating sensitivity to the semantic range of Qur’anic Arabic. This aligns well with the tradition of Toshihiko Izutsu’s semantic field method.

3. Move from Literal to Metaphorical

By transitioning from literal uses of “measure” to its metaphorical and ethical implications (e.g. fair dealings, judgment, equity), you underscore how Qur’anic language encodes moral vision through concrete imagery. This deepens rather than flattens the text.

4. Hypothesis on Technological Development

The proposal that precision, as a Qur’anic value, implicitly commends certain forms of scientific advancement is a bold interpretive leap. It suggests a natural theology of technology, anchored not in apologetics but in moral semiotics.

5. Intertextual Awareness

Your use of tafsir literature (Ibn Kathir, Tabari, Qurtubi, Jalalayn) provides credible anchor points in the Islamic intellectual tradition. Though direct citations are limited, you gesture to interpretive traditions that enrich your thesis.


Areas for Improvement and Refinement

1. Clarify Methodological Status

It would help to make explicit the disciplinary framework being employed:

  • Is this an exercise in Islamic ethics?

  • A hermeneutical analysis?

  • A philosophy of science from an Islamic perspective?
    At times, the inquiry oscillates between Qur’anic linguistics, moral theology, and speculative ethics without fully consolidating its epistemic ground.

2. Theological Ambiguity of Precision

Precision is treated as unambiguously good—but the Qur’an also warns against excess (isrāf), arrogance (kibr), and overconfidence in human knowledge. Could there be a limit to the moral valence of precision?

  • Does the Qur’an valorize “precision” per se—or the moral use of accurate judgment?

A more dialectical approach might nuance the hypothesis: precision is a tool; its moral status depends on intent and context.

3. Absence of Key Primary Texts

While many Qur’anic verses are invoked, the divine attribute of “Al-Ḥasīb” (The Reckoner) or the role of al-Mīzān(the balance) in Surah Ar-Rahman could be more deeply integrated. These aren’t just lexical points—they reveal cosmic justice as structured through measurement.

4. Technological Goodness Assumption

The post implies that increasing precision → increasing goodness via technological advance. This needs qualification:

  • What kind of technology?

  • Under whose control?

  • Used for what ends?
    The Qur’an’s ethical framework does not automatically moralize capability. This risks a kind of technological consequentialism.

5. More Rigorous Source Engagement

The engagement with online commentary and general statements (“on the internet it is said…”) could be supplemented by:

  • Academic sources from Islamic studies (e.g., Oliver Leaman, Nasr Abu Zayd, Joseph Lumbard).

  • History of science in Islam (e.g., George Saliba, Seyyed Hossein Nasr).
    This would elevate the scholarly rigour.


Suggestions for Further Development

Dimension Suggested Additions
Qur’anic Theology Explore divine attributes like Al-Ḥakīm, Al-Ḥasīb, and their relationship to just measurement
Moral Philosophy Contrast “precision” with “wisdom” (ḥikmah) as ethical ideals
Historical Case Study Examine Islamic contributions to metrology or astronomy to ground the inquiry in material practice
Islamic Law (Fiqh) How does jurisprudence handle cases where exact measurement is impossible? What does this say about divine intent?
Modern Epistemology Integrate perspectives from science and technology studies (STS) or post-positivist philosophy of science

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      Shia Hadith Vs. Sunni Hadith - Critical Differences In Hadith Compilation
      This discussion examines a fundamental misunderstanding in modern Shia scholarly approaches to hadith verification. The central argument is that Shia scholars have inappropriately adopted Sunni methodologies for hadith authentication, despite the radically different nature of hadith compilation between the two traditions.
      The Shia tradition benefits from several unique advantages: First, unlike Sunnis who lost direct connection to Prophetic knowledge after Muhammad's death, Shias maintained connection through the Imams for nearly 300 years. Second, during political transitions between Umayyad and Abbasid rule, Imams Baqir and Sadiq established a systematic documentation approach, encouraging written preservation rather than oral transmission.
      Crucially, Shia hadith represents written transmission of documented works (usul), not oral chains. The ijaza system ensured authenticated book transmission with proper authorization, making Sunni-style isnad analysis largely irrelevant for Shia texts. Applying Sunni verification methods to Shia hadith creates a category error - using tools designed for oral transmission on written documentation.
      The major Shia compilations (Kutub al-Arba'a) represent methodically organized versions of original usul, collected through careful verification processes by scholars like Kulayni and Saduq. The Twelfth Imam himself directed followers not to doubt what trustworthy narrators convey.
      By adopting Sunni authentication methods, modern Usuli scholars have created a crisis of confidence in Shia heritage. The solution requires returning to the Imams' own verification principles and recognizing the unique strength and reliability of the Shia hadith tradition on its own terms.
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      This video podcast series is an in-depth review of the book: "The Divine Guide in Early Shi'ism" by Mohammad Ali Amir-Moezzi.
      Video podcast series: The Divine Guide In Early Shia Islam
      A brief description of the book:
      The Divine Guide by Mohammad Ali Amir-Moezzi, is a groundbreaking academic work that explores the early development of Twelver Shia Islam, particularly focusing on the concept of the Imam in early Shia doctrine. Published originally in French, this work examines the esoteric teachings and spiritual dimensions of Imamology as understood by the earliest Shia scholars and traditionists.
      The book primarily analyzes the role of the Imam as a divine guide and repository of sacred knowledge, drawing from early Shia hadith collections like Al-Kafi and Basa'ir al-Darajat. Amir-Moezzi demonstrates how early Shia thought viewed the Imam not just as a political leader, but as a cosmic necessity and spiritual intermediary between God and humanity. The Imam is presented as possessing divine light, supernatural knowledge, and the ability to interpret both the apparent and hidden meanings of religious texts.
      A key argument of the book is that early Shiism had a deeply mystical and esoteric character that was later downplayed in favor of more rational theological approaches. The author shows how the original conception of the Imam included beliefs about their supernatural origins, divine appointment, and extraordinary powers - elements that were later rationalized or reinterpreted by later Shia scholars.
      This work is particularly significant because it challenges the common view that early Shiism was primarily a political movement. Instead, it reveals the rich spiritual and mystical dimensions of early Shia thought, showing how the doctrine of Imamate was fundamentally tied to concepts of divine guidance, sacred knowledge, and spiritual illumination.
      For students of Islamic history and theology, this book provides crucial insights into the development of Shia thought and the original understanding of the Imamate, making it an essential reference for understanding the spiritual foundations of Shiism.
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      Final part of my book, narrated by my dear friend, Mrs. Solmaz Rezayi
      Music: Below the Horizon by Guy Sweens
      Images created by ai bing image generator
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      Idris or Hermes? Exploring the Truth Behind the Legends
       هرمس تریسمِگیستوس معروف به هرمس الهرامسه کیست و چه ارتباطی میان او و حضرت ادریس (ع)، مرکوری و هرمس (از خدایان رومی و یونانی) و تحوت (خدای خرد در مصر باستان) وجود دارد؟ لوح زمرد چیست و چه میگوید؟ نخستین اهرام مصر توسط چه کسانی ساخته شدند و هدف از احداث آنها چه بود؟ آیا میتوانیم اطمینان داشته باشیم که قدیمی‌ترین اهرام سرزمین مصر توسط فراعنه بنا شدند؟
      در این کتاب مطالبی را میخوانید که احتمالا برایتان تازگی دارد و پیشتر چیزی درباره آن نشنیده بودید. این مطالب عمدتا بر پایه کهن‌ترین منابع موجود که تالیف حکما و تاریخ‌نگاران مصری، یونانی، رومی، فینیقی، عرب، ایرانی و ... هستند، نگاشته شده‌اند. شاید پس از مطالعه این کتاب به این نتیجه برسید که پیامبران الهی، صرفا رهبران دینی مردم نبوده‌اند بلکه پیشگامان آموزش علم و حکمت و صنعت نیز بوده و نقش بسزایی در پیشبرد تمدن بشری داشته‌اند.

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