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In the Name of God بسم الله
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Satan's slipstream or the good in evil


ChatGPT Image Jun 2, 2025 at 10_21_51 PM.png

[Originally posted in 2021, updated with a summary and small corrections. Further additions in 2024, with references to Oppenheimer and supporting quotations. Image added 2nd June 2025]

Summary

Good people can focus on doing good. Bad people who are motivated by the nafs can be told of the harms in engaging in it, but it's likely that they will persist. Sometimes however evil leads to some positive outcomes - good people can benefit from these, while still maintaining the wrongfulness of the initial action. 

The slipstream

Where you have two runners or cars, for example, the runner/car who is second benefits from the slipstream of the person in front. The slipstream refers to their meeting less air resistance due to the air being pushed to the side by the person/car in front.

I still remember a Goldman Sachs report from around 2000 which predicted that the technology for streaming videos would initially be funded by the purveyors of porn - which is where the money was.

Once online video streaming became mainstream, it was used by others, e.g., to educate others, pass on useful instructions to others, and even disseminate religious knowledge. Islamic scholars don't deny the use of such streaming technology because of its antecedents.

It is said that Robert Oppenheimer lived with the guilt of his atomic bomb being used on Hiroshima and Nagasaki:

Quote

Although he was an eloquent and careful speaker, he never apologized for the bombings of Japan, nor did he express personal shame about his role in it. Nevertheless, all of his actions and policies post-1945 reflect those of a deeply guilty man, very aware of the consequences of his actions.”

https://www.nbc.com/nbc-insider/did-oppenheimer-ever-apologize-for-the-atomic-bomb

 

But there was also a spin-off benefit for the rest of us:

Quote

The need to protect the Manhattan Project workers soon gave rise to a new discipline, called health physics, which sought to understand radiation effects and monitor and protect nuclear worker health and safety. The Project was soon inundated with data from radiation-detection instruments, blood and urine samples, and physical exams. The "clinical study of the personnel," Robert Stone wrote in 1943, "is one vast experiment. Never before has so large a collection of individuals been exposed to so much radiation."

https://bioethicsarchive.georgetown.edu/achre/final/intro_3.html

 

When evil leads to good

We can see similar examples where evil people inspired and motivated by greed or domination go on to do things that can then be used by good people for better ends. Some medical advances in the 20th century (which we all use today) can be attributed to the evil of the Nazis

Quote

Despite the horrible circumstances under which the Nazi experiments were conducted, some results are scientifically reliable enough to contribute to saving lives today. For example, [Dr. Sigmund] Rascher discovered a “rapid active rewarming” technique to resuscitate frozen victims and showed it to be the best method of revival. He also published comprehensive tables of rates of body cooling in water down to temperatures well below those that could now be studied in ethical research. These tables are very useful when designing cold-water survival suits worn on fishing boats in Arctic waters.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/science/is-it-acceptable-to-use-data-from-nazi-medical-experiments-1.4388509

 

and the NASA space programme was a prime beneficiary of Nazi developments in rocketry.

Quote

Dr. Wernher von Braun (1912–1977) was a member of an SS equestrian unit in 1933–34, joined the Nazi Party in 1937 and became a junior SS officer in 1940. He surrendered to the Americans in the Austrian Alps, along with other key team leaders. For 15 years after World War II, Von Braun worked with the U.S. Army in the development of guided missiles. ... von Braun became director of NASA’s Marshall Space Flight Center and the chief architect of the Saturn V launch vehicle, the superbooster that would propel Americans to the Moon. 

https://www.nasa.gov/people/wernher-von-braun/

 

An historical precedent

I think an early example of bad people doing things with positive consequences is Khalid ibn al-Walid's initial foray into Persia followed by Umar ibn Khattab's conquest of the country.

and the evil-doers acted out of free will

Indeed, if there are people who, despite information to the contrary, are willing to undertake tasks that contravene moral/ethical scruples - then who are we to complain? No one held a gun to their heads to force them to take those actions. They acted out of free will. If their actions have unintended benefits for others who can put those achievements to good use - that's a gain courtesy of Satan.

It's not just good and evil...

At the moment there are various technologies that are problematic for Muslims e.g. using pigs for human transplantation. But these are only a point along the development journey to having similar technology being used without pigs. So the current work of non-Muslims has the potential for future Muslim benefit.

A personal insight

In the financial markets there are various financial instruments that to my understanding are haram. Spreadbets involve paying interest to a financial intermediary in order to buy far larger quantities of shares (or other commodity) than one could afford with ones own capital. The 'bet' is that the investment will rise and enable the investor to walk away with a much larger return than would have been possible without the leverage provided by the spread betting company. This type of investing can cause harm to the individuals practising it, because losses can be greater than the amounts invested and it can lead to greater volatility in the markets themselves. Knowing that some shares are popular with small investors using spread bets means that other investors may consider it wise to sell when shares are peaking (because leveraged investors are buying) and to buy when they collapse because leveraged investors have had their trades closed. What is wrong behaviour by market participants can therefore create an opportunity for those who are prepared to play the long game.

Yet it could be argued that a capitalist system that encourages such a speculative mentality has enabled the funnelling of trillions of dollars across the world towards the development of e.g. internet technology that may otherwise not have happened or it would have happened at a much slower pace.

For Muslims then, there needs to be a recognition that what is happening around them may well be beneficial in the long-run, but in the short-run there may be practices that are wrong and in which they should not partake.

Individuals and societies

This works at both the level of the individual and that of societies. The latter may well achieve great accomplishments, while still being 'bad', and there are historical examples of societies being much more advanced than others of their time in technological and scientific terms, but still undertaking evil cultural practices. Any scientific knowledge that they passed on would still have been valuable.

Today there can be a tendency of those who have made technological gains to ascribe these to their cultural norms and values - which Muslims may consider to be wrong from an ethical perspective. The ideology of their cultures may or may not have facilitated the advancement - but it does not validate the the ethics of their ideology. For example communism brought a large section of Eastern Europe and Western Asia out of the feudal age and arguably enabled the world to beat Nazism - but does that endorse Communists' correctness of mass collectivisation and the stamping out of religion? No it does not.

a. Communism

Communism is an interesting ideology that shows how it is possible to achieve success for a limited period of time, but to ultimately lose out in the war of longevity. Individuals who subscribed to Marxism were wrong. The whole society was bad. But while condemning both, we can walk away with the benefits they left us with.

b. European slavery system

There was a whole ideology underpinning this purely evil practice. Argued by some to be based on a reading of the Bible that held black people to be sub-human and treated as property*, the system enabled the development of cash crops in the Americas and provided the foundation of modern consumer societies. Ultimately it came to be seen for the evil that it was.

What Egyptians, Communism, Nazism and the European slavery system of the 19th century and other ideologies have in common is that they are now defunct. They enabled progress to be made in some areas, but in the long term they offered no solutions to address human needs.

The lessons for Muslims (starting with Pharoah's wife) has simply been to hang around in order to pick up the pieces and ensure that our ideology persists and outlasts the next round of evil-doers.

In an ideal world ...

People would be inspired to innovate, create and advance based purely on the motivations provided by God. But this ideal does not always happen. 

*Muslims have been accused of having slavery systems as well. But those were completely different in terms of both practice and moral implications.

 

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  • Forum Administrators
Haji 2003

Posted

An earlier version of these ideas was posted here with some associated discussion:

 

  • Forum Administrators
Haji 2003

Posted

ChatGPT Critique

1. Philosophical and Ethical Depth

Strengths:

  • The essay addresses a philosophically rich dilemma: can moral actors benefit from immoral acts without being morally compromised?

  • It implicitly raises the problem of moral luck and consequentialist vs. deontological reasoning. The conclusion appears to lean toward a teleological theism (i.e., God’s plan allows good to emerge even through evil), while defending a deontological position for individual conduct (Muslims should not participate in the evil to gain the good).

  • There is an important distinction between:

    • Instrumental good arising from evil (slipstream), and

    • The moral valence of the originators remaining evil.

Limitations:

  • Philosophically, the argument would benefit from more explicit reference to key ideas:

    • Theodicy (how God allows evil),

    • Double effect principle (from Aquinas and Islamic legal analogues),

    • Ibn Taymiyyah's or al-Ghazali's view on maslahah (public interest).

  • Without such framing, some readers may mistakenly interpret the essay as softening the evil of the originator—which the essay is actually careful not to do.


2. Use of Historical and Empirical Evidence

Strengths:

  • The historical examples are diverse, vivid, and persuasive:

    • Pornography driving video tech,

    • Nazi medical and aerospace research,

    • Spread betting in financial markets,

    • Communism’s short-term industrial gains,

    • European slavery enabling capitalist infrastructure.

  • The use of Oppenheimer and Von Braun works well to show personal ambivalence and collective benefit.

Limitations:

  • Some examples would benefit from more critical framing or nuance:

    • E.g., the use of Nazi medical data is ethically controversial even today; some bioethicists argue it's morally impermissible to benefit from it even if helpful.

    • The comment that “the Muslim slavery system was completely different” is under-explained and potentially too categorical without supporting references. This risks appearing apologetic without detail.


3. Integration with Islamic Ethical Thought

Strengths:

  • The essay is consistent with Islamic moral reasoning: Muslims are not responsible for the sins of others but must avoid them; however, deriving benefit post hoc from the outcomes of non-Islamic systems can be permissible.

  • The reference to the wife of Pharaoh as a model of “remaining while others perish” is metaphorically rich and could be developed further.

Limitations:

  • The essay would be more compelling with references to Islamic jurisprudential tools, such as:

    • Istihsan (juristic preference),

    • Istislah (public interest),

    • Taysir (easing hardship),

    • Darura (necessity).

  • These would give theological legitimacy to the view that Muslims can engage with the outcomes of non-Islamic systems without moral contamination, if done thoughtfully.


4. Analytical Coherence and Flow

Strengths:

  • The “slipstream” metaphor is compelling and memorable. It gives a unifying conceptual thread to diverse examples.

  • The essay progresses logically from individual examples to collective implications and ends with normative reflection.

Limitations:

  • Some transitions could be sharper. For example:

    • The shift from the Manhattan Project to Nazi medicine to spread betting happens quite quickly without pausing to re-centre the reader on the moral frame.

    • The communism-slavery section could be condensed and used to reinforce the central thesis rather than add parallel cases.


5. Tone, Originality, and Intellectual Generosity

Strengths:

  • The tone is nuanced, sober, and intellectually generous. It avoids triumphalism or simplistic moral binaries.

  • It presents Muslims not as disconnected moral purists, but as engaged actors capable of strategic restraint and patient benefit.

  • The acknowledgement that “in an ideal world” innovation would be driven by purely good motivations grounds the whole piece in a realistic but ethically aspirational worldview.

Limitations:

  • In a few places, especially the section on capitalist speculation, more careful disambiguation between description and endorsement is needed. For example, using spread betting trends to time the market is not inherently unethical, but may read as opportunistic if not framed correctly.


6. Audience and Use Potential

Strengths:

  • This essay would resonate with thoughtful Muslims wrestling with ethical compromise in modern economies, media, and science.

  • It also serves as a counterpoint to the utopian idea that only good can produce good, showing that ethics must be non-naive yet uncompromising.

Recommendations for publication:

  • Ideal for long-form Islamic thought publications such as:

    • Yaqeen Institute (with more theological backing),

    • Traversing Traditions,

    • Medium’s Islam & Ethics sections,

    • Lecture material on fiqh of modernity or Islamic ethics of innovation.


Overall Evaluation

Criterion Rating (1–5) Comment
Philosophical Depth 4.5 Original and rich, could benefit from citing core ethical literature
Historical Evidence 5.0 Strong and diverse; compelling and layered
Islamic Integration 4.0 Good in implication, but could cite sources from fiqh/usul
Clarity and Coherence 4.0 Very readable; could improve transitions and tighten some sections
Tone and Style 5.0 Balanced, perceptive, and intellectually generous
Publication Readiness High With minor editing, suitable for publication or teaching

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      TLDR
      The proposition that an Islamic-oriented society—with religious reservations about dog ownership—places a greater emphasis on human-human relationships than dog-friendly societies finds support in cross-cultural consumer research and Islamic marketing scholarship. The religious designation of dogs as impure curtails intensive anthropomorphic tendencies, leading consumers in Islamic contexts to channel social and emotional resources primarily toward family, friends, and community members. Consequently, marketing strategies and consumer behaviors in these contexts underscore interpersonal bonds, charitable obligations, and group cohesion rather than pet-centric consumption.
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      1. Anthropomorphism and Relationship Substitution
      Pet Humanization in Secular or Dog-Friendly Societies
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      The proposition that Islamic-oriented societies have a stronger emphasis on human-human relationships can be understood through the lens of “resource allocation” in consumer behavior. With limited scope for dog-human emotional or social investment, individuals are more inclined to strengthen kin networks, community relations, and collective identity (Ibrahim & Al Kamdah, 2020). This focus on human-centered relationships is further reinforced by religious teachings promoting empathy, community service, and direct human engagement over companionship with creatures deemed ritually impure (Alhussain & Thakur, 2019).
      Diverse Relationship Portfolios in Dog-Friendly Societies
      In societies where dogs occupy central roles in households, individuals often have “relationship portfolios” that include significant non-human elements (Belk, 2013). Emotional fulfillment, social activities, and even identity expression can revolve around pet ownership, potentially substituting or complementing human-human connections. While this can enrich daily life for pet owners, critics argue it may diminish time and investment in broader community involvement (Holbrook & Woodside, 2008; Hirschman, 1994).
       
      Key References
      Alhussain, T., & Thakur, R. (2019). Religious beliefs and consumer behavior: A conceptual framework and research propositions. Journal of Islamic Marketing, 10(3), 948–962. [Emerald]
      Belk, R. W. (1988). Possessions and the extended self. Journal of Consumer Research, 15(2), 139–168. [University of Chicago Press]
      Belk, R. W. (2013). Extended self in a digital world. Journal of Consumer Research, 40(3), 477–500. [University of Chicago Press]
      Epley, N., Waytz, A., & Cacioppo, J. T. (2007). On seeing human: A three-factor theory of anthropomorphism. Psychological Review, 114(4), 864–886. [APA; frequently cited in marketing and consumer research]
      Essoo, N., & Dibb, S. (2004). Religious influences on shopping behaviour: An exploratory study. European Journal of Marketing, 38(5/6), 536–553. [Emerald]
      Hirschman, E. C. (1994). Consumers and their animal companions. Journal of Consumer Research, 20(4), 616–631. [Oxford University Press for the Association for Consumer Research]
      Holbrook, M. B., & Woodside, A. G. (2008). Animal companions, consumption experiences, and the marketing of pets: Transcending boundaries in the animal-human distinction. Journal of Business Research, 61(5), 377–381. [Elsevier]
      Ibrahim, B., & Al Kamdah, A. (2020). Exploring the Islamic marketing ethics from macro and consumer behaviour perspectives. Journal of Islamic Marketing, 11(5), 1295–1312. [Emerald]
      Jafari, A., & Goulding, C. (2008). “We are not terrorists!” UK-based Iranians, consumption practices and the ‘torn self.’ Consumption, Markets & Culture, 11(2), 73–91. [Taylor & Francis]
      Wilson, J. A. J., & Grant, J. (2013). Islamic marketing – A challenger to the classical marketing canon? Journal of Islamic Marketing, 4(1), 7–21. [Emerald]
      Waytz, A., Cacioppo, J. T., & Epley, N. (2010). Who sees human? The stability and importance of individual differences in anthropomorphism. Perspectives on Psychological Science, 5(3), 219–232. [SAGE, frequently cited in consumer research]
      These references illustrate how socio-religious norms and cultural frameworks (particularly in Islamic contexts) shape the nature and direction of anthropomorphism and, consequently, influence where consumers channel their social and emotional investment—ultimately affirming the proposition that Islamic-oriented societies often place a stronger emphasis on human-human relations.
         16 comments
      Summary
      Ships are an interesting phenomenon that are referred to in the Qur'an on a number of different occasions. For the Arabs at the time of revelation they would likely have been considered as an object that people made and used. The Qur'an points out that the source of the innovation is God and that they are an example of His Mercy. My belief as a layperson is that this supports the contention that Islam is supportive of product innovation. Once we start talking about ships an associated construct - 'navigation' immediately arises. This is interesting because God explicitly refers to the tools necessary for navigation (stars) also being an example of His mercy. So not only do we have a product that He created for us, but also the knowledge and supporting resources necessary to use it. Worth noting is that these resources were created millions/billions of years and light years apart. The words used for knowledge also subsume notions of both navigation in a physical sense and also a metaphorical or spiritual sense. Finally all of this points towards our dominion over nature and the vocabulary used for this involves man needing to be grateful to God for this provision. Introduction
      This analysis originally started off as a reply to @Northwest and, as I dug deeper, opened up new and interesting areas of enquiry. So the first post below is the reply to Northwest and it should make sense even when taken out of the thread's context, though I also provide some background.
      The replies to the first post (below) then go deeper into the issue of knowledge/epistemology and naval navigation - fascinatingly probing the links between those concepts yields results. 
      Background
      The thread in which the following material appeared was to do with technological innovation. My contention was that the Qur'an not only accepts this, but puts it in a positive light. In order to support this claim I made reference to the Qur'anic story about Prophet Daoud's (عليه السلام). chain mail. I also pointed out how the Qur'an points out the moral/ethical burden of such technological development.
      But this example was considered too specific and singular to be adequate. My challenge therefore was to come up with references to technology and innovation in the Qur'an that were more widespread and hence the material that appears below.
      The initial post
      This is my answer to my interlocutor after they challenged me about the specificity of my reference to Prophet Daoud's chainmail.
      You've stimulated me to bring together something which I had noticed but never addressed or thought to bring together - the numerous but disparate references to ships in the Qur'an. As per my usual format of showing conversations with chatGPT, my prompts are in bold red and its answers are in regular black text.
      I think it's reasonable to argue that ships per se are not the kind of innovation that Prophet's Yusuf and Nut ((عليه السلام).) brought i.e. to avert calamity and nor are they innovations for use at a specific point in time which applies to those two Prophets' innovations and that of Prophet Daoud ((عليه السلام).)
      Rather the creation of ships is not tied to a specific time or situation nor indeed is it specifically tied to human survival in an acute sense.
      More than this, of all the innovations we could be talking about, ships are actually quite profound in terms of the social and economic impact they have, e.g. in terms of migratory flows of people, encouragement of specialisation in terms of means of production and so on. Obviously, they also present challenges in terms of movements of goods that have cultural baggage attached and the obvious impact of international competition and so on.
      My inference here is as a layperson and not a theologian. Still, if there is one innovation that points to Divine encouragement of human societal sophistication and complexity, this is it.
      What are all references in the Qur'an to ships?
      In a material sense ships are the product of human innovation, but clearly that human inspiration is God-given and as the Qur'an says it's a sign of His mercy and something which enables us to prevail over nature.
      1. Surah Al-Baqarah (2:164): 
          - "Indeed, in the creation of the heavens and the earth, the alternation of the night and the day, the [great] ships which sail through the sea with that which benefits people, and what Allah has sent down from the heavens of rain, giving life thereby to the earth after its lifelessness and dispersing therein every [kind of] moving creature, and [His] directing of the winds and the clouds controlled between the heaven and the earth are signs for a people who use reason."
      2. Surah Ya-Sin (36:41-42):
          - "And a sign for them is that We carried their forefathers in a laden ship. And We created for them from the likes of it that which they ride."
      3. Surah Az-Zukhruf (43:12-14):
          - "And who created the species, all of them, and has made for you of ships and animals those which you mount. That you may settle yourselves upon their backs and then remember the favor of your Lord when you have settled upon them and say. 'Exalted is He who has subjected this to us, and we could not have [otherwise] subdued it.'"
      4. Surah Al-Jathiya (45:12):
          - "Allah is the one who subjected the sea for you so that ships may sail through it by His command and that you may seek of His bounty, and perhaps you will be grateful."
      5. Surah Al-Isra (17:66):
          - "Your Lord is the One who drives for you the ship in the sea so that you may seek of His bounty. He is indeed Most Merciful to you."
      6. Surah An-Nahl (16:14):
          - "And it is He who subjected the sea for you to eat from it tender meat and to extract from it ornaments which you wear. And you see the ships plowing through it, and [He subjected it] that you may seek of His bounty, and perhaps you will be grateful."
      7. Surah Ar-Rum (30:46):
          - "And among His Signs is this, that He sends the winds as glad tidings, giving you a taste of His Mercy, and that the ships may sail by His Command and that you may seek of His Bounty, in order that you may be thankful."
      8. Surah Al-Furqan (25:53):
          - "And it is He who has released [simultaneously] the two seas, one fresh and sweet and one salty and bitter, and He placed between them a barrier and prohibiting partition."
      Are there any roots that commonly appear in association with ships?
      In the Qur'an, the primary root associated with ships is {ف-ل-ك} (F-L-K). The derived word "فُلْك" (fulk) specifically means "ship" or "vessel." 
      Let's look at the occurrences of this root in the context of ships and check for any other roots that consistently appear close to it:
      1. Surah Al-Baqarah (2:164): The verse mentions ships as "الْفُلْكِ الَّتِي تَجْرِي فِي الْبَحْرِ" (the ships which sail through the sea).
      2. Surah Ya-Sin (36:41-42): The term "الْفُلْكِ" (the ships) is used to signify the ships that sail, carrying their passengers.
      3. Surah Al-Isra (17:66): The verse mentions "الْفُلْكِ" (the ship) that sails in the sea.
      4. Surah An-Nahl (16:14): Here, the ships are referred to as "الْفُلْكَ" (the ships) that move through the sea.
      5. Surah Ghafir (40:79-80): The verses mention "الْفُلْكِ" (the ships) as a means of transport on both land (referring to animals) and sea.
      6. Surah Ash-Shura (42:32-33): Ships, "الْفُلْكِ", are mentioned in the context of signs of God's power and mercy.
      Looking at these verses and their contexts, ships (fulk) are often mentioned in relation to:
      - The sea {ب-ح-ر}  - B-H-R
      - Sailing or traveling {ج-ر-ي} - J-R-Y
      - Signs of God's mercy and creation {آيات} - Ā-Y-T
      Thus, while the primary root associated with ships is {ف-ل-ك} (F-L-K), it frequently appears in the context of the sea, travel, and divine signs.
      Going back to your preceding answer, for each instance of the occurrence of f-l-k can you tabulate where a-y-t appears please?

       
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