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In the Name of God بسم الله
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Did the Sahaba become Kafir?

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Islamic Salvation

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هلك الناس أجمعون قلت: من في الشرق و من في الغرب؟ قال: فقال: إنها فتحت على الضلال

All the people were destroyed. I said: whomever was in the east and the west? he said: it (the whole earth) was opened up to misguidance

هلكوا إلا ثلاثة ثم لحق أبو ساسان و عمار و شتيرة و أبو عمرة فصاروا سبعة

All were destroyed except three - then they were joined by Abu Sasan, Ammar, Shatira and Abu Amra, so they became seven [Ja`far al-Sadiq]

 

Did the Sahaba Apostatize?

There are narrations which indicate that all the companions were destroyed except three, these were then joined by four others, so they became seven who were saved. However, most of the scholars have understood this Halak [destruction] to be that of Dhalal [misguidance] i.e. perished in Salvific terms, not Kufr [disbelief] - which is the opposite of Islam.

 

Who are the three?

They are the pillars of the Madhhab. They are explicitly named in some of the narrations below:

أبي بصير قال: قلت لأبي عبد الله عليه السلام: ارتد الناس إلا ثلاثة: أبو ذر، و سلمان، و المقداد؟ قال: فقال أبو عبد الله عليه السلام: فأين أبو ساسان، و أبو عمرة الأنصاري؟

[al-Kashshi] Abi Basir said: I said to Abi Abdillah عليه السلام: all the people turned back except for three - Abu Dhar, Salman and Miqdad? Abu Abdillah عليه السلام said: so where is Abu Sasan and Abu Amra al-Ansari?!

أبي بكر الحضرمى قال: قال أبو جعفر عليه السلام: ارتد الناس إلاثلاثة نفر سلمان وأبو ذر والمقداد. قال: قلت: فعمّار؟ قال عليه السلام: قد كان جاض جيضة ثم رجع ... ثم أناب الناس بعد فكان أول من أناب أبو ساسان الانصاري وأبوعمرة وشتيرة وكانوا سبعة فلم يكن يعرف حق أمير المؤمنين عليه السلام إلاّ هؤلاء السبعة

[al-Kashshi] Abi Bakr al-Hadhrami said: Abu Ja`far عليه السلام said: the people turned back except three individuals - Salman, Abu Dhar and Miqdad, I said: what about Ammar? He عليه السلام said: he wobbled a bit then he returned [to the truth] … then the people repented after that, so the first ones to return [to the truth] were Abu Sasan al-Ansari, Abu Amra, Shatira, and they became seven, none recognized the right of the commander of the faithful عليه السلام except these seven.

  • 'then the people repented after that, so the first ones ...' This shows that it was not just these seven, rather, these were the foremost of them.

علي بن أبي طالب عليهم السلام قال: خلقت الارض لبسبعة بهم ترزقون وبهم تنصرون وبهم تمطرون منهم سلمان الفارسي والمقداد وأبو ذر وعّمار وحذيفة رحمة اللّه عليهم. وكان علي عليه السلام يقول: وأنا إمامهم وهم الذين صلوا على فاطمة صلوات الله عليها

[al-Ikhtisas] Ali b. Abi Talib عليه السلام said: the earth was created for seven, because of them you are given sustenance, and because of them you are assisted, and because of them is rain made to fall on you, among them are Salman al-Farsi and al-Miqdad and Abu Dhar and Ammar and Hudhayfa - may Allah have mercy on them. Ali عليه السلام used to say: and I am their Imam, and they are the ones who prayed [Salat al-Mayyit] upon Fatima صلوات الله عليها            

 

The Three had a higher status than the Four

حمران قال: قلت لأبي جعفر عليه السلام: ما أقلنا لو اجتمعنا على شاة ما أفنيناها قال: فقال: ألا أخبرك بأعجب من ذلك قال: فقلت: بلى قال: المهاجرون و الأنصار ذهبوا إلا (و أشار بيده) ثلاثة

[al-Kashshi] Humran said: I said to Abi Ja’far عليه السلام - how few we (the Shias) are! if we gather to eat a sheep we will not be able to finish it, he (Humran) said: so he عليه السلام said: should I not inform you of something even more bewildering? he (Humran) said: I said: yes (do so), he said: the Muhajirun and the Ansar all diverted (i.e. went astray) except for - and he gestured with his hand - three.

In al-Kulayni’s variant the narration continues:

قال حمران: فقلت: جعلت فداك ما حال عمار؟ قال: رحم الله عمارا أبا اليقظان بايع وقتل شهيدا، فقلت في نفسي: ما شئ أفضل من الشهادة فنظر إلي فقال: لعلك ترى أنه مثل الثلاثة أيهات أيهات

Humran said: may I be made your ransom - what is the status of Ammar? He said: may Allah have mercy on Ammar Aba al-Yaqdhan, he pledged allegiance and died a martyr, I said in my heart: what thing is better than martyrdom, so he [the Imam] looked at me and said: perhaps you think that he [Ammar] is like the three [in status], how far! how far! [from truth that opinion is]. 

 

Does this mean all others became apostates?

The crux is the meaning of Ridda (ردّة) in these narrations. Whether it is to be understood in a linguistic sense or the technical sense of apostasy. If the latter is taken then it means all the Sahaba became Kafir [out of Islam] for not sticking to Ali.

Irtidad in the linguistic sense refers to ‘turning back from something’. It has been used with this meaning in a number of verses such as:

فَلَمَّا أَن جَاء الْبَشِيرُ أَلْقَاهُ عَلَى وَجْهِهِ فَارْتَدَّ بَصِيرًا قَالَ أَلَمْ أَقُل لَّكُمْ إِنِّي أَعْلَمُ مِنَ اللّهِ مَا لاَ تَعْلَمُونَ

(i) So when the caravan herald [fore-runner] came he threw it on his face so he returned to seeing, he said: did I not say to you that I know from Allah what ye do not (12:96)

قَالَ الَّذِي عِندَهُ عِلْمٌ مِّنَ الْكِتَابِ أَنَا آتِيكَ بِهِ قَبْلَ أَن يَرْتَدَّ إِلَيْكَ طَرْفُكَ

(ii) The one who had knowledge of a part of the Book said: I will bring it to you before your glance returns back to you [i.e. you blink and open your eyes again] (27:40)

مُهْطِعِينَ مُقْنِعِي رُءُوسِهِمْ لاَ يَرْتَدُّ إِلَيْهِمْ طَرْفُهُمْ وَأَفْئِدَتُهُمْ هَوَاء

(iii) Racing ahead, their heads bowed down, their glances not returning back to them [i.e. unblinking] and their hearts void (14:43)

Whenever Irtidad from the Diin - ‘turning back’ from the Diin i.e. apostasy in the technical sense is meant, the Qur`an qualifies it by explicitly mentioning Diin.

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ مَن يَرْتَدَّ مِنكُمْ عَن دِينِهِ فَسَوْفَ يَأْتِي اللّهُ بِقَوْمٍ يُحِبُّهُمْ وَيُحِبُّونَهُ

(i) O you who believe, whoever turns back from his Diin from among you then Allah will bring about a people whom He loves and they love Him (5:54)

وَمَن يَرْتَدِدْ مِنكُمْ عَن دِينِهِ فَيَمُتْ وَهُوَ كَافِرٌ فَأُوْلَئِكَ حَبِطَتْ أَعْمَالُهُمْ فِي الدُّنْيَا وَالآخِرَةِ

(ii) And whoever among you turns back on his Diin and dies whilst being a Kafir then those are they whose deeds have been nullified in the world and the hereafter (2:217)

It is clear that the narrations about the Irtidad of the Sahaba are not qualified by Diin. To understand that meaning from it would require further proof.

 

The Chosen Interpretation

The Irtidad in the narrations should be understood [in light of other narrations] as people turning away, after the messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وآله, from what they had made incumbent on themselves in his صلى الله عليه وآله lifetime, when they gave the Bay`a to Ali b. Abi Talib as the leader of the believers i.e. Irtidad from Wilaya not apostasy from Islam. 

Instead, they decided to give the Bay`a to someone else because of expediency and other reasons. This was a betrayal of epic proportions that opened up the door of misguidance and innovation in the Diin, however, they had not exited the apparent Islam, nor were all on the same level of liability for this.

This interpretation is aided by the following texts:

أبي جعفر عليه السلام قال: كان الناس أهل ردة بعد النبي صلى الله عليه وآله إلا ثلاثة. فقلت: ومن الثلاثة؟ فقال: المقداد بن الأسود، وأبو ذر الغفاري، وسلمان الفارسي، رحمة الله وبركاته عليهم، ثم عرَف أناسٌ بعدَ يسير. وقال: هؤلاء الذين دارت عليهم الرحا وأبوا أن يبايعوا، حتى جاؤوا بأمير المؤمنين مكرَهاً فبايع، وذلك قوله تعالى: وَمَا مُحَمَّدٌ إِلاَّ رَسُولٌ قَدْ خَلَتْ مِن قَبْلِهِ الرُّسُلُ أَفَإِن مَّاتَ أَوْ قُتِلَ انقَلَبْتُمْ عَلَى أَعْقَابِكُمْ وَمَن يَنقَلِبْ عَلَىَ عَقِبَيْهِ فَلَن يَضُرَّ اللّهَ شَيْئًا وَسَيَجْزِي اللّهُ الشَّاكِرِينَ

(i) [al-Kafi] Abi Ja`far عليه السلام said: the people were the people of Ridda after the prophet صلى الله عليه وآله except three. I said: who are the three? He said: al-Miqdad b. al-Aswad, Abu Dhar al-Ghiffari and Salman al-Farsi, may Allah’s mercy and blessings be upon them, then the people came to know after a while [the truth], these [three] are those around whom the banner revolved and they refused to give Bay`a [to Abu Bakr], until when they brought the commander of the faithful عليه السلام by coercion and he gave the pledge of allegiance, and that is His words the Elevated - “Muhammad is not but a messenger, messengers have come and gone before him, if he dies or is killed, will you turn back on your heels, and whoever turns back on his heels then he will not harm Allah a thing and Allah will recompense those who are grateful” (3:144).

  • The narration indicates that the uniqueness of the three was that they did not give the Bay`a to the usurper because of knowing the true status of Ali, it was only when Ali was forced to give the Bay`a, and he did [for the Masliha which Allah willed], that the three also agreed to do it.
  • The meaning of 'then the people came to know after a while ...' is that some people recognized their fault, and acknowledged that the commander of the faithful was the most rightful person to assume leadership.

That all the others apart from the three were paralyzed by fear is shown in the narration below:

أبي جعفر عليه السلام قال: جاء المهاجرون والأنصار وغيرهم بعد ذلك إلى علي عليه السلام فقالوا له: أنت والله أمير المؤمنين وأنت والله أحق الناس وأولاهم بالنبي عليه السلام هلم يدك نبايعك فوالله لنموتن قدامك! فقال علي عليه السلام: ان كنتم صادقين فاغدوا غدا علي محلقين فحلق علي عليه السلام وحلق سلمان وحلق مقداد وحلق أبو ذر ولم يحلق غيرهم؛ ثم انصرفوا فجاؤوا مرة أخرى بعد ذلك، فقالوا له أنت والله أمير المؤمنين وأنت أحق الناس وأولاهم بالنبي عليه السلام عليه السلام هلم يدك نبايعك فحلفوا فقال: إن كنتم صادقين فاغدوا علي محلقين فما حلق إلا هؤلاء الثلاثة قلت: فما كان فيهم عمار؟ فقال: لا؛ قلت: فعمار من أهل الردة؟ فقال: إنّ عمارا قد قاتل مع علي عليه السلام بعد ذلك

(ii) [al-Kashshi] Abi Ja`far عليه السلام said: the Muhajirun and Ansar and others came after that [the coup at Saqifa] to Ali عليه السلام and said to him: you are by Allah the commander of the faithful, and you are by Allah the most rightful person and closest to the prophet, put forth your hand so that we can pledge allegiance to you, for by Allah we are going to die in front of you [in your defense], Ali said: if you are truthful then come to me tomorrow having shaved your head [which would visually identify the ‘rebels’ to the authorities], so Ali shaved, so did Salman, Miqdad and Abu Dhar, and no one else did, then they came a second time after the first and said: you are by Allah the most rightful person and closest to the prophet, put forth your hand so that we can pledge allegiance to you, and they swore an oath, he said: come to me tomorrow having shaved your head if you are truthful, so no one shaved except three. I said: Ammar was not among them? He said: No, I said: Ammar is from the people of Ridda? He said: Ammar fought together with Ali after that.

  • This reaffirms that the uniqueness of the three is related to them not giving in and remaining with Ali to the end as far as his right is concerned. Note also how Ammar is not included among the Ahl al-Ridda, even in a historical sense, because of his later support for Ali.

In fact, one of the reasons behind Ali accepting to give Bay`a after his show of dissent was so that the masses do not renounce the faith totally. Recall that the Islamic polity was still unstable and there were a lot of Arab tribes whose allegiance had been personally to the prophet and not the Diin per se, the Jahiliyya was not far from their psyche.

أبي جعفر عليه السلام قال: إن الناس لما صنعوا ما صنعوا إذ بايعوا أبا بكر لم يمنع أمير المؤمنين عليه السلام من أن يدعو إلى نفسه إلا نظرا للناس و تخوفا عليهم أن يرتدوا عن الاسلام فيعبدوا الاوثان ولا يشهدوا أن لا إله إلا الله وأن محمدا رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله وكان الاحب إليه أن يقرهم على ما صنعوا من أن يرتدوا عن جميع الاسلام وإنما هلك الذين ركبوا ما ركبوا فأما من لم يصنع ذلك ودخل فيما دخل فيه الناس على غير علم ولا عداوة لامير المؤمنين عليه السلام فإن ذلك لا يكفره ولا يخرجه من الاسلام ولذلك كتم علي عليه السلام أمره وبايع مكرها حيث لم يجد أعوانا

(iii) [al-Kafi] Abu Ja'farعليه السلام  said: When the people did what they did - when they gave allegiance to Abu Bakr, nothing prevented the commander of the faithful عليه السلام from calling to himself (i.e. gather support to rival them publicly) except his fear for the people - that they would apostate from Islam, and begin worshiping the idols anew, and reject witnessing that there is no God but Allah, and that Muhammad is his messenger; and it was more beloved to him to acquiesce to what they had done rather than them apostatizing from the whole of Islam. Verily, those who clambered upon this (opposing Ali for rulership) have been destroyed. As for the one who did not contribute anything to that (opposing Ali for rulership) and entered into what the people entered into without knowledge (about his status) nor enmity towards him then this act of his does not make him a disbeliever, and it does not remove him from Islam, and this is why Ali kept quiet about his matter (status), and gave allegiance while displeased, when he could not find any supporters.

  • The narration makes it clear that had the Imam fought for his leadership i.e. a civil war it would cause irreparable damage, this is because of the tenuous position that Islam had, even the outward Islam (the Islam of the Shahadatyn) would have been wiped out. There were a lot of external and internal enemies waiting for this infighting to make sure that the whole foundation of Islam crumbles.

 

Conclusion

The Umma became, for the most part, misguided after their prophet. This is something that had also happened to the communities of past prophets. But this misguidance should not be understood to have taken all of them out of Islam as a whole, rather, by ignoring a central commandment of the prophet they have done a great sin which struck a blow to the pristine Islam.

Furthermore, the protagonists differ relative to their role in the fiasco. Some were quite unaware of the whole thing and lacked full knowledge of the Haqq of Ali and his Ma`rifa, this could be because they were blind to the order of the prophet (total ignorance); had some doubts; did not have the ability to influence the outcome because of some constraints [swept away by the wave of events]; or because they showed cowardice and faltered in coming to Ali’s aid. Others later acknowledged their mistake and made up for it in the following years. All these in their different categories can be said to be the majority. Their fate in the next world of “realities” is left to Allah

On the other hand, there were those who administered the whole thing. They had full knowledge of what the prophet had ordered them and what the divine commandment required them to do. They also knew the position of Ali. Despite this, they fought against this explicitly. These are those who should be treated as apparent Muslims in the daily life in this world [according to most scholars]. This is, after all, how Ali himself treated them, praying in their mosques, visiting them in sickness, helping them out when they faced challenges, eating with them etc. part of which is Taqiyya and safeguarding the greater principles of Islam, but they are undoubtedly people of the fire in the next world.

Note that this interpretation is dependent on the position of differentiating between the Dharuriyat of the Diin and that of the Madhhab and considering the Shahdatayn alone to be enough in making someone a Muslim [unless taken out for some other reason]. Whilst this is a popular position among scholars today, it has had its detractors among the scholars of the past, one of them being someone like Shaykh Yusuf al-Bahrani, who considered the rejectors of the Wilaya as Kafirs with the fullest implication this has [even in this world].  

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Salam here is nice lectuure from sunni scoolar Dr.Adnan Ibrahim.He mention some companions and first generation and misinformation from them about Prophet(s.a.w.a).Look honest to me.May Allah prise him for speaking truth insha'Allah.

Wa Salam

Edited by AidAsSadik

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No.shaba didn't became kafir.Even though they did wrong and ignorant actions. 

There are numerous historic evidence and saying of Hazrat Ali as that clearly indicate that sahaba did not became kafir. But yes those who fought against Imam Ali did great sin and fitnah. 

Or they were ignorant to status and knowledge and position of Imam Ali.

Even we today do not have real marifah and knowledge of status of Imam Ali and Prophet puh. 

And also those who were on side of Imam Ali once Ali as became Khalifa did recognise Imam Ali as.

So declaring kafir to one who disagree with Imam Ali as indicate the ones ignorance. 

But those are excluded who despite knowing Imam Ali still opposed him out of love for world and lower self passion. 

 

Edited by islam25

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7 hours ago, islam25 said:

No.shaba didn't became kafir.Even though they did wrong and ignorant actions. 

There are numerous historic evidence and saying of Hazrat Ali as that clearly indicate that sahaba did not became kafir. But yes those who fought against Imam Ali did great sin and fitnah. 

Or they were ignorant to status and knowledge and position of Imam Ali.

Even we today do not have real marifah and knowledge of status of Imam Ali and Prophet puh. 

And also those who were on side of Imam Ali once Ali as became Khalifa did recognise Imam Ali as.

So declaring kafir to one who disagree with Imam Ali as indicate the ones ignorance. 

But those are excluded who despite knowing Imam Ali still opposed him out of love for world and lower self passion. 

 

Salam 

Wa Salam

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11 minutes ago, islam25 said:

Can you write what he says. 

Salam.You have translation.He is one of top sunni scoolars,and he found at Buhari&Muslim narrations of companions that are leave Islam even while Prophets(s) was live.Try found some videos of him on that isue,and you will understand insha'Allah.

In sunni tradition have narration that every 100 years will came scoolar wich will reunion religion.Manny top sunni alims think Dr.Adnan Ibrahim is "reunior of Islam"(Even he by himself never say that)

Ofcourse there is salafi fatwa on him wich say:"He is not reunior of Islam.We are not sure if he is rafidi,munafiq or qafir".So,if salafi atack you so hard than you know you are doing something good insha'Allah.

Wa salam

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26 minutes ago, AidAsSadik said:

Salam.You have translation.He is one of top sunni scoolars,and he found at Buhari&Muslim narrations of companions that are leave Islam even while Prophets(s) was live.Try found some videos of him on that isue,and you will understand insha'Allah.

In sunni tradition have narration that every 100 years will came scoolar wich will reunion religion.Manny top sunni alims think Dr.Adnan Ibrahim is "reunior of Islam"(Even he by himself never say that)

Ofcourse there is salafi fatwa on him wich say:"He is not reunior of Islam.We are not sure if he is rafidi,munafiq or qafir".So,if salafi atack you so hard than you know you are doing something good insha'Allah.

Wa salam

So it what I said. 

I do not believe that all sahaba ra who disagreed Ali as became kafir. 

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10 hours ago, islam25 said:

No.shaba didn't became kafir.Even though they did wrong and ignorant actions. 

Salam.

You say this.And your sahih books say diferent.

Wa salam.

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2 minutes ago, islam25 said:

What is my sahih books.

Salam

Im sorry i don know.But anyway your conclusion is wrong.

If your sahih books are sunni collections such as Sahih Buhari,or Sahih Muslim,they say diferent from you

If your sahih books are shia collections such as Kitabu-l-Kafi,or Biharu-l-Anwar,agan they say diferent from you.

Wa Salam

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2 minutes ago, AidAsSadik said:

Salam

Im sorry i don know.But anyway your conclusion is wrong.

If your sahih books are sunni collections such as Sahih Buhari,or Sahih Muslim,they say diferent from you

If your sahih books are shia collections such as Kitabu-l-Kafi,or Biharu-l-Anwar,agan they say diferent from you.

Wa Salam

So you mean only that version is correct which says shaba are kafir. 

Can you tell me what is definition of kafir. 

And how many sahaba became kafir and how they became kafir? 

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5 minutes ago, islam25 said:

So you mean only that version is correct which says shaba are kafir. 

Can you tell me what is definition of kafir. 

And how many sahaba became kafir and how they became kafir? 

Salam.Im not qulify for it.

But sunni Imams,authors of qutbu-l-sitte think theye where and in thers sahihs/sunans is your answar

Or you can turn at Imam Kulayni(q.r) or somme other shia scoolar,and find your answar

Wa Salam

Edited by AidAsSadik

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10 minutes ago, AidAsSadik said:

Salam.Im not qulify for it.

But sunni Imams,authors of qutbu-l-sitte think theye where and in thers sahihs/sunans is your answar

Or you can turn at Imam Kulayni or somme other shia scoolar,and find your answar

Wa Salam

Mr.

There are indications in both shia and sunni books about kafir. But non of us or even scholars can  declear any one kafir.

And it's quiete possible that our declaration of some one being kafir may prove wrong. Because ultimately it lies with Allah. 

Have you ever read any narration from imam Ali declaring any sahaba kafir. 

Are even those who fought against imam Ali. 

Even I have heard great scholars who do not agree that sahaba who disagreed imam Ali necessarily all became kafir. 

What is your  view about sunnis are they kafir. 

Edited by islam25

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Just now, islam25 said:

Mr.

There are indications in both shia and sunni books about kafir. But non of us are even scholars declear any one kafir.And it's quiete possible that our declaration of some one being kafir may prove wrong. Because ultimately it lies with Allah. 

Have you ever read any narration from imam Ali declaring any sahaba kafir. 

Are even those who fought against imam Ali. 

Even I have heard great scholars who do not agree that sahaba who disagreed imam Ali necessarily all became kafir. 

What is your  view about sunnis are they kafir. 

Salam

In sunni islam Buhari&Muslim are at ranq of Qur'an.99% of sunni ulama will say every single hadith in theese 2 books is 100% autentic,so in very same books u will find that not all of companions stay with Islam.

At other hand Shia do not beleve that for example Kitabu-l-Kafi is all sahih,most of it yes,but all no.However narrations about this isue are sahih,and clear.Every companion was not stay with Islam.

At end,i have enough moral to not answar at your last question,because i know where that lead.I give my opinion on topic.Give source of my opinion.

When you ask me question,i give u answar with source of my answar.Think is enough from me.

Wa Salam

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11 minutes ago, AidAsSadik said:

Salam

In sunni islam Buhari&Muslim are at ranq of Qur'an.99% of sunni ulama will say every single hadith in theese 2 books is 100% autentic,so in very same books u will find that not all of companions stay with Islam.

At other hand Shia do not beleve that for example Kitabu-l-Kafi is all sahih,most of it yes,but all no.However narrations about this isue are sahih,and clear.Every companion was not stay with Islam.

At end,i have enough moral to not answar at your last question,because i know where that lead.I give my opinion on topic.Give source of my opinion.

When you ask me question,i give u answar with source of my answar.Think is enough from me.

Wa Salam

Mr. 

You didn't gave answer. 

All the sahaba whom you declear kafir gave bayat to Imam Ali. 

Imam regularly used teach them aaddress them. 

Used lead prayer. 

Never call them kafir. Give sermons of guidance. Despite you still call them kafir. 

And when even shia scholars clearly say that by denying imam Ali one don't necessarily become kafir. 

Again why you didn't answer my last question. 

Or what is definition of kafir. 

Edited by islam25

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15 minutes ago, islam25 said:

Mr. 

You didn't gave answer. 

All the sahaba whom you declear kafir gave bayat to Imam Ali. 

:) Test never ended on Imam Ali (a.s). Many companions have exposed themselves in the caliphate of Imam Hasan (a.s).

If majority of sahaba were assumed as true believers, why they allowed Muawiya Laeen to curse Imam Ali (a.s)? 

 

Edited by Salsabeel

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6 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

:) Test never ended on Imam Ali (a.s). Many companions have exposed themselves in the caliphate of Imam Hasan (a.s).

If so majority of sahaba were assumed as true believers, why they allowed Muawiya Laeen to curse Imam Ali (a.s)? 

 

How many these were who talked bad about imam Ali . 2 or 3 or 10.The question is of thousands of sahaba. That too when some shia give blanket futwa of declaring near all them kafir. 

Edited by islam25

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4 minutes ago, islam25 said:

Mr. 

You didn't gave answer. 

All the sahaba whom you declear kafir gave bayat to Imam Ali. 

Imam regularly used teach them aaddress them. 

Used lead prayer. 

Never call them kafir. Give sermons of guidance. Despite you still call them kafir. 

And when even shia scholars clearly say that by denying imam Ali one don't necessarily become kafir. 

Again why you didn't answer my last question. 

Or what is definition of kafir. 

Salam

I declare kafir?No it was Imam Buhari&Imam Muslim at first place

I did not answar just to see way you think.Ok.

If just think a little just a little,you will get answar without asking me.

I belive you are sunni,yes.And i say Salam to you,yes.Woul i say salam to kafir?

I give you videos of Dr.Adnan Ibrahim.Would i call upon him and made him my source or take anything from him if i belive all sunnis are kafirs?

Ofcourse i would not.

But you are not read,you are not listen,now i see that you are not even think!

Im sorry for say this,but you not have morals at first place.How many times i say salam to you?How many times you reply?I see you as brother you see me as mister!?

Im not go down any more at your level.Whatever you wrighte,think you are right.From me have dua that Allah SwT guide you to Truth,whatever Truth is.

Wa Salam

 

 

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1 minute ago, islam25 said:

How many these many were. 2 or 3 or 10.The question is of thousands of sahaba

:) brother, keep your heart soft.

Assume, if thousands of companions would have opposed the public cursing of Imam Ali (a.s), Muawiya Laeen would have stopped that. 

Imam Hassan's coffin would never recieve the shower of arrows. The incident of Karbala & its aftermath would not occured.

 

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5 minutes ago, AidAsSadik said:

Salam

I declare kafir?No it was Imam Buhari&Imam Muslim at first place

I did not answar just to see way you think.Ok.

If just think a little just a little,you will get answar without asking me.

I belive you are sunni,yes.And i say Salam to you,yes.Woul i say salam to kafir?

I give you videos of Dr.Adnan Ibrahim.Would i call upon him and made him my source or take anything from him if i belive all sunnis are kafirs?

Ofcourse i would not.

But you are not read,you are not listen,now i see that you are not even think!

Im sorry for say this,but you not have morals at first place.How many times i say salam to you?How many times you reply?I see you as brother you see me as mister!?

Im not go down any more at your level.Whatever you wrighte,think you are right.From me have dua that Allah SwT guide you to Truth,whatever Truth is.

Wa Salam

 

 

Wa Alikum salam. 

I am definitely sorry for not greeting salam. 

Still do you think someone declared by bukhari or shahahi muslim kafir is necessarily kafir. 

Does someone declaring kafir means he is necessarily kafir. 

Because kufur is state heart which Allah knows best. 

That too when Imam Ali lead the prayer of all most all sahaba and lived with them like Muslims never called them kafir. 

So why should I. 

Yes there may be one or two exceptions but that doesn't apply to all. 

Wa salam. 

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9 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

:) brother, keep your heart soft.

Assume, if thousands of companions would have opposed the public cursing of Imam Ali (a.s), Muawiya Laeen would have stopped that. 

Imam Hassan's coffin would never recieve the shower of arrows. The incident of Karbala & its aftermath would not occured.

 

So you mean few persons cursed Imam Ali made all others kafir. 

In other words does  whole ummah of the time of muawiya became kafir. 

I think that is not right view. 

Every single person is responsible for his sin. 

Edited by islam25

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46 minutes ago, islam25 said:

So you mean few persons cursed Imam Ali made all others kafir. 

This "few" possess thousands not tens or hundreds.

30,000 fought against Imam Ali (a.s) in Jamal. 120,000 fought against Imam Ali in Siffin. 

For Imam Hassan's army of 40,000 which went to fight with Muawiyah Laeen army of 60,000, you can read the story at www.al-islam.org 

Brother, just see what Allah says in Quran:

Surah Ya Seen, Verse 7:

لَقَدْ حَقَّ الْقَوْلُ عَلَىٰ أَكْثَرِهِمْ فَهُمْ لَا يُؤْمِنُونَ

Certainly the word has proved true of most of them, so they do not believe.

(English - Shakir)

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1 hour ago, Salsabeel said:

This "few" possess thousands not tens or hundreds.

30,000 fought against Imam Ali (a.s) in Jamal. 120,000 fought against Imam Ali in Siffin. 

For Imam Hassan's army of 40,000 which went to fight with Muawiyah Laeen army of 60,000, you can read the story at www.al-islam.org 

Brother, just see what Allah says in Quran:

Surah Ya Seen, Verse 7:

لَقَدْ حَقَّ الْقَوْلُ عَلَىٰ أَكْثَرِهِمْ فَهُمْ لَا يُؤْمِنُونَ

Certainly the word has proved true of most of them, so they do not believe.

(English - Shakir)

So the tens of thousands that were with Imam Ali didn't became kafir. Because the opening post was indicating that except few all sahaba became kafir. 

Edited by islam25

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23 hours ago, islam25 said:

So the tens of thousands that were with Imam Ali didn't became kafir. Because the opening post was indicating that except few all sahaba became kafir. 

He did not say nor it indicated that they became kafir.

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Which of you, then, will help me in this, and be my brother, mine executor and my successor amongst you?’ All remained silent, except for the youthful ʿAlī who spoke up: ‘O Prophet of God, I will be thy helper in this.’ The Prophet then placed his hand on ʿAlī’s neck and said, ‘This is my brother, mine executor and my successor amongst you. Hearken unto him and obey him.’

(Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasul Allah, tr. A Guilaume, The Life of Muhammad, 118)

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      Occasionally the person who had hosted us in Lucknow would visit. He was a local politician and would arrive in a stately Ambassador car or even more excitingly a ‘jeep’. Not an eponymous one of course, but I still remember the fact that it had gun racks. Both that vehicle and the Ambassador were made in India. This was India before trade liberalisation. Not as familiar a place as the Pakistan we had travelled through to get here. Pakistan had the welcome familiarity of brands that I had grown up with; the ketchup was Heinz and the coke a recognisably friendly white swoosh on a red background. Billboard and television advertising was reassuring. Here unfamiliar names came across as peculiar. Why would a cola be called ‘Thums Up?’. 
      Such has been the irony of globalisation that a few weeks ago eating at Dishoom restaurant in London’s East End I saw the Thums Up logo once more. A symbol of rejecting western capitalism had itself become a brand, with a consumerist meaning, evoking a carbonated essence of India. 
      Like all children of Asian immigrants on visits to their parents’ country of origin, I was also overwhelmed with the extensivity and density of familial connections. There were first cousins, second cousins, and quite a lot more complicated combinations, for which there are no words in English. Added to this, a matriarchal aunt could also be a cousin. My wife came up with a novel way of explaining one such relationship to me. “If that aunt were Mary Queen of Scots, your mum would be Elizabeth I”. Indeed, an artefact of such complex and inter-related ties was the obvious existence of rivalries, jealousies, and squabbles spanning generations. In England, my younger brother and I had been protected from this aspect of extended family life. The protection came at a price: we didn’t know how to deal with it at all. At the age of 10 this did not matter, but on future visits, it would become more significant and certainly by the time my brother and I reached marriageable age. For the time being, it was just nice that as I wandered from apartment to apartment in the mahal, everyone I met was a relative and I was too young to understand any political dimension of that relationship. It would also be in subsequent visits to the mahal, when I was older, that I’d appreciate the tensions with the communities who lived outside the mahal.
      On my daily walks, I’d see hand powered sewing machines and food being prepared more laboriously than anything I had seen at home. The dirt floor did not afford the comfort of sitting cross legged and sitting on my haunches was not something my leg muscles were prepared for. Unlike the urban homes, I had come across in the sub-continent, the toilet here was a platform raised above the multi-coloured offerings beneath. So large was the place that any smells remained distant from any other rooms.
      The cold had not left us in Fatehpur. At night, they would light braziers which were wonderful for bringing around family members, sitting together on the Indian style wooden beds, sharing each other’s warmth, stories and gossip. 
    • By 3wliya_maryam in spoken words/poetry/ deep thinking
         1
      When you go through a rough patch in your life
      And you feel that your heart is being stabbed with a knife
      Remember Hussein (as) and the tragedies he went through
      Would you ever endure that kind of pain too?
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