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PRAYER WITH OPEN HAND


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#1 truthseeker_

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Posted 22 April 2006 - 02:35 AM

(salam)
Why shia open there hands in prayer and hanfi malki shafi hanbli ahluhadeet could not combine themselves how they should prayer with open hands or close?

#2 Areef Hamdi

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Posted 22 April 2006 - 02:35 PM

Are you talking about folding your hands? If so the Maliki Madhhab does the same as the Jafari by leaving their hands to the side. Furthermore the other 3 differ as to wear the placement of hands should be.

#3 Yousif

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Posted 23 April 2006 - 06:27 AM

asalamu alaykum

yes he means folding the hands , and i havent seen a reference to folding the hands yet

#4 kin_han

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Posted 23 April 2006 - 06:55 AM

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious Most Merciful :wub:

yes he means folding the hands , and i havent seen a reference to folding the hands yet

Here are a few from Sunan Abu Dawud:

Book 3, Number 0725:

Narrated Wa'il ibn Hujr:

I purposely looked at the prayer of the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him), how he offered it. The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) stood up, faced the direction of the qiblah and uttered the takbir (Allah is most great) and then raised his hands in front of his ears, then placed his right hand on his left (catching each other).

When he was about to bow, he raised them in the same manner. He then placed his hands on his knees. When he raised his head after bowing, he raised them in the like manner. When he prostrated himself he placed his forehead between his hands.

He then sat down and spread his left foot and placed his left hand on his left thigh, and kept his right elbow aloof from his right thigh. He closed his two fingers and made a circle (with the fingers).

I (Asim ibn Kulayb) saw him (Bishr ibn al-Mufaddal) say in this manner. Bishr made the circle with the thumb and the middle finger and pointed with the forefinger.

Book 3, Number 0754:

Narrated Abdullah ibn Mas'ud:

AbuUthman an-Nahdi said: When Ibn Mas'ud prayed he placed his left hand on the right. The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) saw him and placed his right hand on his left one.

Book 3, Number 0755:

Narrated Ali ibn AbuTalib:

AbuJuhayfah said: Ali said that it is a sunnah to place one hand on the other in prayer below the navel.

Book 3, Number 0756:

Narrated Ali ibn AbuTalib:

Jarir ad-Dabbi reported: I saw Ali (Allah be pleased with him) catching hold of his left hand) by his right hand on the wrist above the navel.

Book 3, Number 0757:

Narrated AbuHurayrah:

(The established way of folding hands is) to hold the hands by the hands in prayer below the navel.

Book 3, Number 0758:

Narrated Tawus:

The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) used to place his right hand on his left hand, then he folded them strictly on his chest in prayer.

Book 3, Number 0957:

Narrated Wa'il ibn Hujr:

I said that I should look at the prayer of the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) how he prays. The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) stood up and faced the qiblah (i.e. the direction of Ka'bah) and uttered the takbir (Allah is most great); then he raised his hands till he brought them in front of his ears; then he caught hold of his left hand with his right hand (i.e. folded his hands).

When he was about to bow, he raised them (his hands) in a like manner. Then he sat, stretched out his left foot (to sit on it), placed his left hand on his left thigh, and kept away the tip of his right elbow from his right thigh, joined two fingers, formed a ring, to do so. And the narrator Bishr made a ring with the thumb and the middle finger.

Jazakallah.
Salamu Alaykum

#5 Yousif

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Posted 23 April 2006 - 12:43 PM

asalamu alaykum

just a question , is jawaher al kalam a sunni book ? or something likethat ?

#6 truthseeker_

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Posted 23 April 2006 - 01:04 PM

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious Most Merciful :wub:
Here are a few from Sunan Abu Dawud:

Book 3, Number 0725:

Narrated Wa'il ibn Hujr:

I purposely looked at the prayer of the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him), how he offered it. The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) stood up, faced the direction of the qiblah and uttered the takbir (Allah is most great) and then raised his hands in front of his ears, then placed his right hand on his left (catching each other).

When he was about to bow, he raised them in the same manner. He then placed his hands on his knees. When he raised his head after bowing, he raised them in the like manner. When he prostrated himself he placed his forehead between his hands.

He then sat down and spread his left foot and placed his left hand on his left thigh, and kept his right elbow aloof from his right thigh. He closed his two fingers and made a circle (with the fingers).

I (Asim ibn Kulayb) saw him (Bishr ibn al-Mufaddal) say in this manner. Bishr made the circle with the thumb and the middle finger and pointed with the forefinger.

Book 3, Number 0754:

Narrated Abdullah ibn Mas'ud:

AbuUthman an-Nahdi said: When Ibn Mas'ud prayed he placed his left hand on the right. The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) saw him and placed his right hand on his left one.

Book 3, Number 0755:

Narrated Ali ibn AbuTalib:

AbuJuhayfah said: Ali said that it is a sunnah to place one hand on the other in prayer below the navel.

Book 3, Number 0756:

Narrated Ali ibn AbuTalib:

Jarir ad-Dabbi reported: I saw Ali (Allah be pleased with him) catching hold of his left hand) by his right hand on the wrist above the navel.

Book 3, Number 0757:

Narrated AbuHurayrah:

(The established way of folding hands is) to hold the hands by the hands in prayer below the navel.

Book 3, Number 0758:

Narrated Tawus:

The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) used to place his right hand on his left hand, then he folded them strictly on his chest in prayer.

Book 3, Number 0957:

Narrated Wa'il ibn Hujr:

I said that I should look at the prayer of the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) how he prays. The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) stood up and faced the qiblah (i.e. the direction of Ka'bah) and uttered the takbir (Allah is most great); then he raised his hands till he brought them in front of his ears; then he caught hold of his left hand with his right hand (i.e. folded his hands).

When he was about to bow, he raised them (his hands) in a like manner. Then he sat, stretched out his left foot (to sit on it), placed his left hand on his left thigh, and kept away the tip of his right elbow from his right thigh, joined two fingers, formed a ring, to do so. And the narrator Bishr made a ring with the thumb and the middle finger.

Jazakallah.
Salamu Alaykum


(salam) plz brother show the book scan page plz no copy paste i can proof u there is no hadeeth in saha sitta that is sahih to proof that to fold hand as for example imamnawai say that in the shrah of muslim

plz brother show me the book u dont have this book i challenge u

#7 Wise Muslim

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Posted 23 April 2006 - 02:18 PM

(bismillah)

(salam)

May Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì keep us to the best of iman.

Brother kin_han, those are Sunni hadiths. Obviously it's gonna state that.


#8 Jnoub Libnan

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Posted 23 April 2006 - 08:15 PM

(salam)

thats right, those are sunni hadiths. i can show you a million sunni hadiths supporting shia beliefs, but you will say they are false, just like i can say to these hadiths.

Edited by Jnoub Libnan, 23 April 2006 - 08:15 PM.


#9 alibaba1

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Posted 23 April 2006 - 09:27 PM

sunan abu dawood not sahih sittah

the hadith narrated in abu dawood are considered part of the sahih sitta.

#10 Yousif

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Posted 23 April 2006 - 09:31 PM

asalamu aalaykum

oho :P i dont remember reading that , can someone tell me all other completely authentic books for sunnis , i thought sunan abu dawood and the other likes were just mostly authentic

#11 kin_han

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Posted 24 April 2006 - 03:23 AM

Wise Muslim
Brother kin_han, those are Sunni hadiths. Obviously it's gonna state that.


That's what he is asking for, right?

Jnoub Libnan
thats right, those are sunni hadiths. i can show you a million sunni hadiths supporting shia beliefs, but you will say they are false, just like i can say to these hadiths.

Millios? Then why dont you post them, that's what the brother wants. I dont see what you people are on about?

The Sihah Sitta are: Bukhari, Muslim, Nassai, Ibn Majah, Tirmidhi and Abu Dawud.

Jazakallah.

#12 Jnoub Libnan

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Posted 24 April 2006 - 10:42 PM

i dont need to post them because thats not what the topic is about. i said i can find millions of sunni hadiths supporting shia beliefs. i didnt say supporting this belief, and im not saying they dont exist either brother. i was just making a general statement that just because those hadiths are there doesnt mean we believe in them, in the same way that just because hadiths supporting our beliefs exist it doesnt mean that you believe in them.

#13 kin_han

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Posted 24 April 2006 - 11:00 PM

i dont need to post them because thats not what the topic is about. i said i can find millions of sunni hadiths supporting shia beliefs. i didnt say supporting this belief, and im not saying they dont exist either brother. i was just making a general statement that just because those hadiths are there doesnt mean we believe in them, in the same way that just because hadiths supporting our beliefs exist it doesnt mean that you believe in them.

Woops, forgive my misunderstanding. I thought your post was relevant to this particular thread.

Salamu Alaykum

#14 Link

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 10:23 PM

(salam)

The Maliki school take the amal of medina (and some say Ahlulbayt (as) ) over "hadiths"

So when it comes to their fiqh, it is irrelevant if you show them "Sahih" hadiths showing otherwise

wasalam

#15 tahasyed

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 11:23 PM

(salam)

The Maliki school take the amal of medina (and some say Ahlulbayt (as) ) over "hadiths"

So when it comes to their fiqh, it is irrelevant if you show them "Sahih" hadiths showing otherwise

wasalam

(salam)

That's not quite correct.
While we do give great priority to 'amal Al-Madinah, it does not mean we reject sahih ahadith. Every sahih hadith is hujjah.
What differs is the meaning of the hadith. This boils down to three fundamental priciples:
1) nasikh/mansookh
2) 'aam/khas
3) dhanni/qat'i

ws

#16 al-syedia

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 02:09 AM

huh
sunnis and their hadiths
they can prove everything

#17 tahasyed

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 10:34 AM

huh
sunnis and their hadiths
they can prove everything

Perhaps with your deep knowledge, you can tell me if the imams did raf' al-yadain with every takbeer? :)

And btw, yes, hadiths can be manipulated a billion and one ways. The same is the case for shia ahadith.
One of the reasons why it is absolutely necessary to follow Usool Al-Fiqh is because of the danger of laymen interpreting ahadith according to their whims.

Edited by tahasyed, 02 May 2006 - 10:37 AM.


#18 akeelabbas

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 09:55 PM

(salam)
Why shia open there hands in prayer and hanfi malki shafi hanbli ahluhadeet could not combine themselves how they should prayer with open hands or close?


Wa alaikum salaam

Brother, if you really do want to prove that the sunni way of salaah is wrong, then take two things(apart from the many answering-ansar has taken)

1.) Wudhu
Most of us know the sunni way of performing wudhu.
Differing areas...
a.) They wash their feet rather than wiping
b.) pour water on their hands rather than washing

a.) It is a clear verse 5:6 which says..."...and wipe your heads and your feet to the ankles..."----"...waimsahoo biruoosikum waarjulakum ila alkaAAbayni..."

Here, the word "waimsahoo " is derived from the root word, "Masaa" which means, "TO WIPE"

So here Allah is telling us to wipe our Feet.
Sunnnnniiis.....Think over it...This is a daily thing which you practice incorrectly!

b.) Again, it is a clear verse 5:6 which says......"...wash your faces and your hands as far as the elbows..."----"...faighsiloo wujoohakum waaydiyakum ila almarafiqi..."

The word "faighsiloo " is derived from the root word "GHUSL" which means "TO WASH"

So here Allah tells us to wash our hands.
Does pouring of water on our hands, and washing it, the same??

Think over it.

2.) Turning the Face away from Qibla

Hmmm.....
Let me recollect......what is the "Niyyah"(intention) that the sunni brothers do before their prayers..........
...
:!!!: Aha :!!!:
"I pray ...rakah salaah............facing the qibla......qurbatan Elallah" :D

Then even before they complete their prayers, during the first salaam after Tashahud, they turn their faces away from the Qibla.
The salaah gets complete after 2 salaams, but the face turns away during the first salaam itself :D
The sunnis will give :!!!: BIG :!!!: EXCUSES for this turning of their faces...but all excuses are NULL AND VOID because of the following verse...

[Yusufali 2:144] We see the turning of thy face (for guidance) to the heavens: now Shall We turn thee to a Qibla that shall please thee. Turn then Thy face in the direction of the sacred Mosque: Wherever ye are, turn your faces in that direction. The people of the Book know well that that is the truth from their Lord. Nor is Allah unmindful of what they do.

Here Allah commands the Prophet to turn his face "IN THE DIRECTION"(i.e.towards) of The Kaaba....while the sunnis turn their faces "AWAY FROM THE KAABA".

Allah has also said that this Qibla would PLEASE the prophet.
Why so much emphasis on a mere QIBLA ???
Because The Muslims have a "ONE" Qibla which signifies the "UNITY" of the muslims.

Grow up sunnis!!!
Allahhafiz.

#19 akeelabbas

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 07:40 AM

^^^^^^^
If it does not matter to you...then from today onwards...start praying with open hands.....or if you are already with open hands...then do the opposite....

You do not understand this. If what you said was the case...then The prophet would also have mixed up things...BUT HE DID NOT...!!

SO THINK...
ALLAHHAFIZ

#20 tahasyed

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 08:41 PM

Wa alaikum salaam

Brother, if you really do want to prove that the sunni way of salaah is wrong, then take two things(apart from the many answering-ansar has taken)

1.) Wudhu
....
So here Allah tells us to wash our hands.
Does pouring of water on our hands, and washing it, the same??

Think over it.

We have to have mastered the sciences of Arabic grammar before we try to act like mujtahids.
In arabic, changing the fatha, kasra, dhamma can change the state of words in a sentence.

Look at the ayah 9:3:

Çááøåó ÈóÑöíÁñ ãøöäó ÇáúãõÔúÑößöíäó æóÑóÓõæáõåõ

Allah - free of obligations- from - the Mushrikeen - AND THE PROPHET.
Are the Mushrikeen and the Prophet (s) in the same category? No. A single change in the fatha/kasra makes the difference, and 'the Prophet' ties back to Allah because of that.
It was no other than imam Ali ® who heard a new Muslim recite this verse incorrectly and thus decided to add the diacritics to the Quran.
So what do we learn? There's more to the ayaat then just the order the words appear - the grammar and diacritics are important too. Please use this analogously in the case of the ayah of wudhu.


2.) Turning the Face away from Qibla
....
Then even before they complete their prayers, during the first salaam after Tashahud, they turn their faces away from the Qibla.
The salaah gets complete after 2 salaams, but the face turns away during the first salaam itself :D
....

Turning the face to say salam is found in Shia narrations too (refer to Al-Kafi's section on salat), and the muqallids of Fadhlullah can also tell you that he says it's fine as well.

.... in the words of Imam Malik, "Learn the knowledge before acting". Something we all should do I think.


Now I repeat my question: did the Prophet/imams do raf' al-yadain in all the takbeerat, or not?
Those who don't know, this is raf' al-yadain:
Posted Image
i.e. raising the hands everytime one says "Allahu Akbar".

ws

#21 akeelabbas

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 10:01 PM

As-Salaam-o-Alaikum Brother Taha.

We have to have mastered the sciences of Arabic grammar before we try to act like mujtahids.

I have not mastered the sciences of Arabic grammar, nor have I acted like a Mujtahid. But yes, I have followed a Mujtahid.
I believe that you have reverted to the shii belief(if I am mistaken then forgive me).
If so, then whose Taqlid are you in? Which Marja-e-Taqlid do you follow ?
I follow Aqa Sistani, and I have posted(after deriving) the above wrongful acts of the sunnis during wudhu from Aqa Sistani's Website.(From this link, see "wudhu" in the main title, and "introduction" in the submenu)

Here in this link Aqa Sistani says that if a person "washes"(forget the pouring of water), his hand from fingers to elbows(in the opposite direction), then his wudhu is void.
One more point that he says here in the above link is that if a person moves his feet while "wiping"(forget washing them), then his wudhu is void.

So what I have derived (points 1{a}and 1{b}is in accordance with my Marja-e-Taqlid-Aayatullah Sistani, so NO MORE ACTING LIKE THE MUJTAHIDS! OKAY ???

Turning the face to say salam is found in Shia narrations too (refer to Al-Kafi's section on salat), and the muqallids of Fadhlullah can also tell you that he says it's fine as well.

I don't know from where did you find in Al-Kafi about turning the face in prayer, if so, please provide me with the reference.

Even if such a hadith exists in Al-Kafi, still we are unlike sunnis who believe in ALL-AUTHENTIC Hadith books.

Aayatullah sistani is my marja-e-taqlid, hence I follow his command here that if you turn your face in prayer,(in the manner in which the non-shiahs turn), your prayer will be void--here is the link---Things which Invalidates Prayers(From this link, see "THINGS WHICH INVALIDATES PRAYERS" in the main title, and "introduction" in the submenu)

And regarding the muqallids of Aayatullah Fadlallah......forget the muqallids....see what the aayatullah has himself said---
Aayatullah fadlallah strongly says that the salaah will be void if you turn your face away from the qibla, (in the manner in which the non-shiahs do).
Here is the link---Aayatullah Fadlallah's website www.bayyanat.org

Now I repeat my question: did the Prophet/imams do raf' al-yadain in all the takbeerat, or not?
Those who don't know, this is raf' al-yadain:
Posted Image
i.e. raising the hands everytime one says "Allahu Akbar".

ws

Inshallah I will find out and give you the answer...till then just see this link..
Takbiratul-Ehram(see "RULES FOR NAMAAZ" in the main title, and "Takbiratul Ehram" in the submenu)

Inshallah we'll talk more on this subject...
Allahhafiz and take care! :)

Edited by akeelabbas, 05 May 2006 - 04:42 AM.


#22 truthseeker_

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Posted 05 May 2006 - 06:53 AM

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious Most Merciful :wub:
Here are a few from Sunan Abu Dawud:

Book 3, Number 0725:

Narrated Wa'il ibn Hujr:

I purposely looked at the prayer of the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him), how he offered it. The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) stood up, faced the direction of the qiblah and uttered the takbir (Allah is most great) and then raised his hands in front of his ears, then placed his right hand on his left (catching each other).

When he was about to bow, he raised them in the same manner. He then placed his hands on his knees. When he raised his head after bowing, he raised them in the like manner. When he prostrated himself he placed his forehead between his hands.

He then sat down and spread his left foot and placed his left hand on his left thigh, and kept his right elbow aloof from his right thigh. He closed his two fingers and made a circle (with the fingers).

I (Asim ibn Kulayb) saw him (Bishr ibn al-Mufaddal) say in this manner. Bishr made the circle with the thumb and the middle finger and pointed with the forefinger.

Book 3, Number 0754:

Narrated Abdullah ibn Mas'ud:

AbuUthman an-Nahdi said: When Ibn Mas'ud prayed he placed his left hand on the right. The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) saw him and placed his right hand on his left one.

Book 3, Number 0755:

Narrated Ali ibn AbuTalib:

AbuJuhayfah said: Ali said that it is a sunnah to place one hand on the other in prayer below the navel.

Book 3, Number 0756:

Narrated Ali ibn AbuTalib:

Jarir ad-Dabbi reported: I saw Ali (Allah be pleased with him) catching hold of his left hand) by his right hand on the wrist above the navel.

Book 3, Number 0757:

Narrated AbuHurayrah:

(The established way of folding hands is) to hold the hands by the hands in prayer below the navel.

Book 3, Number 0758:

Narrated Tawus:

The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) used to place his right hand on his left hand, then he folded them strictly on his chest in prayer.

Book 3, Number 0957:

Narrated Wa'il ibn Hujr:

I said that I should look at the prayer of the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) how he prays. The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) stood up and faced the qiblah (i.e. the direction of Ka'bah) and uttered the takbir (Allah is most great); then he raised his hands till he brought them in front of his ears; then he caught hold of his left hand with his right hand (i.e. folded his hands).

When he was about to bow, he raised them (his hands) in a like manner. Then he sat, stretched out his left foot (to sit on it), placed his left hand on his left thigh, and kept away the tip of his right elbow from his right thigh, joined two fingers, formed a ring, to do so. And the narrator Bishr made a ring with the thumb and the middle finger.

Jazakallah.
Salamu Alaykum


(salam)
tradition1
first of all these are allfrom the sunan abu dawud so i like to discuss through their narrators
1:u dont have sunan abu dawud u just copy pasted if u have then plz write the whole narrtors of this tradition
2:wail bin hujer became muslim after fatah makkah with mauwia
by providing the narrators will get the answer


tradition2
The first narrator of this tradition is Muhammad bin Bakaar, Allama Dhahabi writes that he was an unknown person, and intentionally narrated weak traditions therefore the folks abandoned taking traditions from him. Meezan ul Etidaal, volume 3 page 492 series 7276 The second narrator is Hasheem bin Basheer al-Salmi It is said that he used to narrate fake traditions, and Sufyan e Soori has asked to abstain from taking traditions from him. He used to provide false chains for traditions. Meezan ul E’tidaal volume 4 page 306, series 9250. The third narrator is Hajjaj bin Abi Zaynab: Imam Ahmed bin Hanbal, Ibn Madini Imam Nisai, Dar Qatni and Ibn e Moeen have declared him as unreliable Meezan ul E’tidaal, volume 1, page 462, series 1756. The fourth narrator is Abu Uthman alNahdi whose real name is Abdur Rehman bin Mal. The Sahabi, Ans said about him that he was not aware of whom he was and Ibn e Madini said about him that no one took traditions from him except Suleiman al-Tami. Meezan ul E’tidaal, volume 1, page 550. Ibn e Hajar says that Ibn e Jareeh has termed him as an unknown person Tehzeeb alTehzeeb volume 12 page 146

tradition 3
The first narrator of this tradition is Muhammad bin Qaddama al-Baghdadi; Ibn e Mo’een said about him that he was nothing, simply worthless and Abu Daud too has termed him as a weak narrator. Meezan ul E’tidaal, volume 4, page 15, series 8083. The second narrator is Ibn e A’een; his real name was Sufyan bin A’eena, it is said about him that he used to introduce self made traditions and also committed mistakes. Meezan ul E’tidaal, volume 2, page 170, series 3327. Copyright © 2002-2006 Answering-Ansar.org. • All Rights Reserved
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The third narrator was Abi Badr; his real names were Al-Waleed bin Shuja’ and Abu Hamam bin Abi Badr, Ibn e Mo’een said he was weak and Abu Hatim said that his narrations are not reliable. Meezan ul E’tidaal, volume 4, page 340, series 9374. The fourth narrator is Abu Taloot; Bukhari termed him as a non famous person and refused to take traditions from him. Meezan ul E’tidaal, volume 4, page 541, series 10328
and the imam nawai say that in shrah muslim that all the narration of folding hands by ali(as) are zaeef so no tradition of imam ali(as) is hujjet by u here shaih muslim volume 2/19 so plz go get more refrence

tradition of abuhuraira
abu huraria chracter is very interseting sunni dont even know his real name there are 30 names in alkuni al asma of mr hakim and 15 in seer alamunibla of zahbi and they say that he used to tadlees means fraud that he narrate himself but says that he heard from others and suyyti says that zana is better then tadlees

narration of tawus is not reached to rasool Allah and of folding hands on chest



if any one need any refrence from my post in scan page ill give it to u

#23 qiyam-ul-hidaya

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Posted 11 May 2006 - 10:32 AM

(salam) brother truthseeker!thanks for yr efforts .i have found an pdf article relevant to topic of the thread .its written by maliki scholars who have comprehensively refuted all reports of joining hands in prayers(right hand over left hand).its very useful and worth reading.here is it sadl vs qabd

#24 truthseeker_

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Posted 11 May 2006 - 01:04 PM

(salam) brother truthseeker!thanks for yr efforts .i have found an pdf article relevant to topic of the thread .its written by maliki scholars who have comprehensively refuted all reports of joining hands in prayers(right hand over left hand).its very useful and worth reading.here is it sadl vs qabd


jazak Allah

#25 .InshAllah.

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Posted 16 May 2006 - 05:09 PM

(salam)

We have to have mastered the sciences of Arabic grammar before we try to act like mujtahids.
In arabic, changing the fatha, kasra, dhamma can change the state of words in a sentence.

Look at the ayah 9:3:

Çááøåó ÈóÑöíÁñ ãøöäó ÇáúãõÔúÑößöíäó æóÑóÓõæáõåõ

Allah - free of obligations- from - the Mushrikeen - AND THE PROPHET.
Are the Mushrikeen and the Prophet (s) in the same category? No. A single change in the fatha/kasra makes the difference, and 'the Prophet' ties back to Allah because of that.
It was no other than imam Ali ® who heard a new Muslim recite this verse incorrectly and thus decided to add the diacritics to the Quran.
So what do we learn? There's more to the ayaat then just the order the words appear - the grammar and diacritics are important too. Please use this analogously in the case of the ayah of wudhu.


Well I certainly havent mastered the laws of arabic grammar, but from what I currently know 9:3 is against the Sunni interpretation of the Ayah of Wudhu and not for it.

Sunnis usually say that in the Ayah of Wudhu 'Arjulakum' is Mansoob, yet Ru'usikum isnt, therefore Arjulakum must be Ma'toof on 'Aydiyakum' (which is also Mansoob). However in 9:3 'Rasuluhu' is Ma'toof on 'Allah', yet the former is Marfu' whilst the latter is Mansoob.

What do you think?

The Shia interpretation:

'Atf can be on the wording (lafth), or on the ma7al. In 9:3 'Allah' is in ma7al raf3, and the Atf is on the ma7al making 'Rasuluhu' marfu3.

In the Ayah of Wudhu', 'Ru'usakim' is in ma7al nasb as its a maf3ul bihi, but the 'bi' before it causes it to be majroor. The atf is on the ma7al of biru'sikum making 'Arjulakum' mansoob.

ws

Edited by .InshAllah., 16 May 2006 - 05:20 PM.




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