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#1 SHIA_COP

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Posted 31 March 2006 - 12:10 PM

(bismillah)
(salam)
yeah hai farmna Mola Ali as ka...
ap ka kia kihal hai is farman ki bare mein..
Bar Muqasreen Lanat..beshummar

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#2 Rawshni

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Posted 31 March 2006 - 02:02 PM

(bismillah)
(salam)



(bismillah)
(salam)
yeah hai farmna Mola Ali as ka...
ap ka kia kihal hai is farman ki bare mein..
Bar Muqasreen Lanat..beshummar


Iss kitaab kay liye koyey kaar aamad link yahaan post karo jahaan say yeh downloadee jaa sakay . . . hamm yeh kitaab parhrhnaa chaahtay hain. . .

Edited by Rawshni, 31 March 2006 - 02:08 PM.


#3 Abuzar

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Posted 02 April 2006 - 12:37 AM

(bismillah)

ap ka kia kihal hai is farman ki bare mein..



Hum jaison ki ye majaal ho k Maula(as) k farameen pe izhaar-e khayaal ki jasarat karein? Naudbillah!

#4 Abbas.

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Posted 02 April 2006 - 12:58 AM

(salam)

Mujhe koi shak nahen aur nah hi samajhnay main koi dikkat.

#5 Rawshni

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Posted 02 April 2006 - 03:24 PM

(bismillah)
(salam)


(bismillah)

Hum jaison ki ye majaal ho k Maula(as) k farameen pe izhaar-e khayaal ki jasarat karein? Naudbillah!

(salam)

Mujhe koi shak nahen aur nah hi samajhnay main koi dikkat.


Baghair-e-tahqeeq?

#6 Malek-e-Ashtar

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Posted 02 April 2006 - 04:08 PM

Salam

If this 'farmaan' was written in Nahjul Balagha, it would be looked upon differently, however, it isn't. Apparently some of this is quite contradictory by only reading the first chapter of Nahjul Balagha 'cognizance of Allah'.

How much credibility does Nahjul Israr have? Whom is it written by? In what century/era?

By whom is the hadith quoted by? In what circumstances did Imam Ali (as) say the above?

Yeh, I would too liek a link to this book and any help with the answers to the above questions will be greatly appreciated.

Shank yu. Br. Shia Cop :)

Kind regrads

Malek

#7 Rawshni

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Posted 02 April 2006 - 04:23 PM

(bismillah)
(salam)


Salam

If this 'farmaan' was written in Nahjul Balagha, it would be looked upon differently, however, it isn't. Apparently some of this is quite contradictory by only reading the first chapter of Nahjul Balagha 'cognizance of Allah'.

How much credibility does Nahjul Israr have? Whom is it written by? In what century/era?

By whom is the hadith quoted by? In what circumstances did Imam Ali (as) say the above?

Yeh, I would too liek a link to this book and any help with the answers to the above questions will be greatly appreciated.

Shank yu. Br. Shia Cop :)

Kind regrads

Malek



Thank you brother, a million times . . .

All these questions and many others arose when I read that attachment. I simply asked for thelink so that one could see the context of the attributed statement. I didn't state the questions keh baba fatwoun say bohat darrtee houn . . . aur fatway harr koee jaaree karr daytaa hai palak jhapaktay mein . . .


By the way . . . farsi/urdu mein Qiaser Bahrvi peh eik thread bhee khola hai . . . tawwajoh chaahtaa hai

http://www.shiachat....showtopic=80408

Aur haan . . . some more audi files are now available . . .

Blessed be

Edited by Rawshni, 02 April 2006 - 04:34 PM.


#8 Abuzar

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Posted 02 April 2006 - 09:32 PM

Baghair-e-tahqeeq?




Kya baghair-e-tahqeeq?

#9 Rawshni

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Posted 02 April 2006 - 10:47 PM

(bismillah)
(salam)



Kya baghair-e-tahqeeq?



oopar daikhein, Malek-e-Ashtar kaa post aur mayraa jawaab?

Aur kyaa Lahoryoun mein behnoun kou salaamtee kee duaa daynay kee khoo khatam ho gayee???


wassalaam

#10 Abbas.

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 05:32 AM

(bismillah)
(salam)

Baghair-e-tahqeeq?


(salam)

Apnay matlab ki tehqeeq ker chuka ... Aur hazam bhi ker li. Baaki maanda tehqeeq bhi sansun kay sath jari rahay gi.

Main samajhta hun keh yeh ma'rfat kay derwazay hain. Behasun say samjh nahen aatay. Kisi ko mil jate hain, kisi ko nahen. Aql-e-Insaani ki hadud hain. Jo jahan tak pohancha, so pohancha. Allah sab kay ilm main izaafa keray.

Itna kehay deta hun, Ali ko jis maqam per meray Dil nay rakha hay, Allah us say karoorun gunah buland hay.

Fi-Amanillah.

#11 sayedzeeshan

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 07:01 AM

(salam)

Jab Ali(as) nay saat asmanoon aur darakhtoon aur badaloon ko paida kiya to uss waqt Allah kia kar raha tha?

#12 Abbas.

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 07:15 AM

(salam)

Jab Ali(as) nay saat asmanoon aur darakhtoon aur badaloon ko paida kiya to uss waqt Allah kia kar raha tha?


(salam)

Ali a.s pay hukamraani ker raha tha....


Fi-Amanillah

#13 learical

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 07:52 AM

(bismillah)

Hum jaison ki ye majaal ho k Maula(as) k farameen pe izhaar-e khayaal ki jasarat karein? Naudbillah!


Majaal to nahi laikin we have to be skeptical when people attribute certain things to our Imams jo sometimes sahi nahi hoti. Not referring to the saying posted above though, since mairay paas iski authenticity determine karnay ki means nahi hain (hosakta hay may iss farmaan ko ghalat tarhaan sumujh raha hoon with the limited knowledge I have). laikin I believe bro Malek-e-Ashtar nay bohat sahih baat kari hay.

Remember Imam Ali is quoted as saying, “Two people will be destroyed because of me: a zealous one who exaggerates, and an enemy who disdains.”

According to Grand Ayatollah Sayid Sadiq Shirazi (and all ulemas agree with him), the above hadeeth means that the one who overestimates the status of Imam Ali by rendering him as a divine, and the one who carries contempt against him will be destroyed on the Day of Judgment.

Apnay matlab ki tehqeeq ker chuka ... Aur hazam bhi ker li. Baaki maanda tehqeeq bhi sansun kay sath jari rahay gi.

Main samajhta hun keh yeh ma'rfat kay derwazay hain. Behasun say samjh nahen aatay. Kisi ko mil jate hain, kisi ko nahen. Aql-e-Insaani ki hadud hain. Jo jahan tak pohancha, so pohancha. Allah sab kay ilm main izaafa keray.



I kinda agree, laikin aap jo bold may part hay uspay thori si aur rawshni phairna pasand karain gay?

Edited by learical, 03 April 2006 - 09:08 AM.


#14 sayedzeeshan

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 08:19 AM

(salam)

Ali a.s pay hukamraani ker raha tha....
Fi-Amanillah

(salam)

LOL, lagta hai aap uss waqt beth kar nazara kar rahey they :P

Jokes aside, let us analyze what Allah has to say on this issue.

[1:2] Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds;
[12:101] My Lord! Thou hast given me of the kingdom and taught me of the interpretation of sayings: Originator of the heavens and the earth! Thou art my guardian in this world and the hereafter; make me die a muslim and join me with the good.
[13:16] Say: Who is the Lord of the heavens and the earth?-- Say: Allah. Say: Do you take then besides Him guardians who do not control any profit or harm for themselves? Say: Are the blind and the seeing alike? Or can the darkness and the light be equal? Or have they set up with Allah associates who have created creation like His, so that what is created became confused to them? Say: Allah is the Creator of all things, and He is the One, the Supreme.
[35:1] All praise is due to Allah, the Originator of the heavens and the earth, the Maker of the angels, messengers flying on wings, two, and three, and four; He increases in creation what He pleases; surely Allah has power over all things.

If you are truthful, then bring forward a proof. Otherwise refrain from saying stuff which you donot know.

#15 learical

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 08:50 AM

I don't believe those verses contradict what brother InshAllah is trying to say. Let me give you an example: Hum agar koi cheez invent kartay hain, does that not mean that Allah gave us the potential to invent it.. essentially making him the creator? Har cheez uskay through existance may aati hay nahi? There are numerous verses in the Qur'an where it says Allah gives and takes away life (3:156, 7:25, 7:158, 15:23, 23:80, 30:40, 40:43, 40:68, 45:26, 50:43, 44:53:44, 57:2, 67:2) laikin since Allah has chosen Malakul Maut to carry out the task of taking away our life wouldn't that mean that someone other than Allah took away our life? See where I'm getting at? Him chosing angels or humans to carry out a task for him doesn't discredit the fact that he is the one originally doing it.

Edited by learical, 05 April 2006 - 01:00 AM.


#16 Abuzar

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 11:41 AM

(bismillah)
(salam)

oopar daikhein, Malek-e-Ashtar kaa post aur mayraa jawaab?




Kamal hey k Lahore mein hum hein aur tanz ki latafat Karachi waalon ko hum sikhaen!

'Majaal' mein ne iss waastey kaha thaa k aik taraf tau Ali(as) ki naudbillah taqreeban Uluhiyat ka daawa ho raha hey, doosri jaanib 'gustakhi' ye k is 'aqeeday' pe hum jaise nacheez afraad ka 'khayal' pucha jaey.

Aap sub mujh se kama haqquhu waaqif naheen ;) (aur ye behr haal aap ki kotahi naheen, meri yahaan kum majudgi ka nateeja hey), warna mujh jaisa Hujjetul Islam Zaki Baqri jaise 'muqassir'-e-azam se majlis parhwane waala, itni jald mauzu riwayaat pe etbaar naheen kar sakta.

I would've preferred to act the Devil's advocate (literally in this case), but you all forced me into the open.

Aur kyaa Lahoryoun mein behnoun kou salaamtee kee duaa daynay kee khoo khatam ho gayee???



Maazrat khwah hoon, lekin jub se Ambarsar k lohaar aur Gujrat k badmaash hamaray haakim huay, hamaray ausaan bahaal naheen!

@)

#17 Rawshni

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 01:12 PM

(bismillah)
(salam)




(bismillah)
(salam)


Kamal hey k Lahore mein hum hein aur tanz ki latafat Karachi waalon ko hum sikhaen!

'Majaal' mein ne iss waastey kaha thaa k aik taraf tau Ali(as) ki naudbillah taqreeban Uluhiyat ka daawa ho raha hey, doosri jaanib 'gustakhi' ye k is 'aqeeday' pe hum jaise nacheez afraad ka 'khayal' pucha jaey.

Aap sub mujh se kama haqquhu waaqif naheen ;) (aur ye behr haal aap ki kotahi naheen, meri yahaan kum majudgi ka nateeja hey), warna mujh jaisa Hujjetul Islam Zaki Baqri jaise 'muqassir'-e-azam se majlis parhwane waala, itni jald mauzu riwayaat pe etbaar naheen kar sakta.

I would've preferred to act the Devil's advocate (literally in this case), but you all forced me into the open.



Maazrat khwah hoon, lekin jub se Ambarsar k lohaar aur Gujrat k badmaash hamaray haakim huay, hamaray ausaan bahaal naheen!

@)


Abb mujh kajj majj bayaan, bayzabaan iraanan say yeh tawaqua bhee ziyadatee hai keh mein urdu kee tanz lateef kee daad day paaoon gee . . .


Ambarsar kay lohaar tou aaye b'aad mein, pehlee tabaahee tou Lahore kee phairee thee Hazaray kay Tareenoun nay . . . phir Jalandhar kaa mazhab o millat farosh Zia ul Haq . . . phir Ambarsar kay Lohar . . .

Edited by Rawshni, 04 April 2006 - 05:37 AM.


#18 sahar_110

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 12:39 AM

main sirf itna kahoon gee k i agree with bro Malek e ashtar, sis Rawshni, bro sayedzeeshan
and this quote

“Two people will be destroyed because of me: a zealous one who exaggerates, and an enemy who disdains.”



#19 Rawshni

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 03:14 AM

(bismillah)
(salam)


main sirf itna kahoon gee k i agree with bro Malek e ashtar, sis Rawshni, bro sayedzeeshan
and this quote



Agreenay kaa shukriah . . . Khudawand-e-'Izzu Jall aap deegar muaamelaat mein bhee hamaaray saath agrenay kee taufeeq 'ataa farmaaey

Ilaahee aameen

#20 Abbas.

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 07:17 AM

I kinda agree, laikin aap jo bold may part hay uspay thori si aur rawshni phairna pasand karain gay?


(salam)

Brother, Humaray Aema kay bohat say aisay kalaam hain jin kay haqaeq tak rusaee bohat dushwaar hay. Aema ki Fazeelat ko samajhna her shakhs kay bas ki baat nahen. Jaisa kay khud Unhon nay fermaya hay kay Humari fazeelat ko woh Momin jaan sakta hay jis kay Imaan ka Imtihan Khuda le chuka ho.

Maine jo likha tha, us say meri murad yeh thi kay jin sawalaat se aql ko shak o shubhaat aur bepanah hairat main perrnay ka derr ho, un kay jawabaat mujh tak pohanch gaye. Chunchay ab nah ghulv ka derr hay aur nah Kufr ka khof.

Ijazat chahta hun aur jaate jaate aik hadith tehreer kerta chala hun. Hadith kuch yuun thi ( Apnay lafzun main bayan kerta hun ): Ager Abu zar ko patah chal jaye jo Humari fazeelat aur maqaam Salman kay dil main hay, to Abu zar Salman ko katal ker day.

Umeed hay key isharay ko samajh gaye ho gay.


Kiya puuch rahay ho kay Ali kon hay Kiya hay
Samjho to wo banda hay na samjho to Khuda hay



Fi-Amanillah

#21 Abuzar

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 10:00 PM

(bismillah)
(salam)

AanHazrat (pbuh) ki aik ma'ruf hadees e mubarak ka Urdu tarjuma:

Naheen pehchana kisi ne Allah ko siwa mere aur Ali(as) k; naheen pehchana mujhe kisi ne siwa Allah k aur Ali(as) k; aur naheen pehchana Ali(as) ko kisi ne siwa Allah k aur mere.

Ajab he k iss hadees ki maujudgi mein baaz saheb e minbar na sirf Ali(as) ki ma'arifat ka daawa karte hein bul-k maarifat karwane ki jasarat bhi!

#22 learical

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Posted 07 April 2006 - 01:26 AM

Brother, Humaray Aema kay bohat say aisay kalaam hain jin kay haqaeq tak rusaee bohat dushwaar hay. Aema ki Fazeelat ko samajhna her shakhs kay bas ki baat nahen. Jaisa kay khud Unhon nay fermaya hay kay Humari fazeelat ko woh Momin jaan sakta hay jis kay Imaan ka Imtihan Khuda le chuka ho.




Agreed

Maine jo likha tha, us say meri murad yeh thi kay jin sawalaat se aql ko shak o shubhaat aur bepanah hairat main perrnay ka derr ho, un kay jawabaat mujh tak pohanch gaye. Chunchay ab nah ghulv ka derr hay aur nah Kufr ka khof.


I understand, laikin may yay sumujhta hoon kay neither can we confidently accept the above farman nor outright deny it with the little knowledge we have. We have to be able to define the limits Imam Ali was setting for us when he said: "a zealous one who exaggerates". Unless humaaray paas ilm ho kay iss 'exageration' ki hud kya hay, hummay bohat aihtyaat karni chahiyay in whole-heartedly accepting something which could potentially be ghalat.


Hadith kuch yuun thi ( Apnay lafzun main bayan kerta hun ): Ager Abu zar ko patah chal jaye jo Humari fazeelat aur maqaam Salman kay dil main hay, to Abu zar Salman ko katal ker day


Koi shak or shuba daalnay ki koshish nahi hay mairi laikin I've heard that the hadith went something like this: If Abuzar knew what was going on in Salman's heart, then he would have become an apostate or would have died. Either way, yay hadith mujhay har dafa bohat ghairi soach may daaldayti hay. The levels of wisdom or Irfan the human mind can attain is just amazing.


Kiya puuch rahay ho kay Ali kon hay Kiya hay
Samjho to wo banda hay na samjho to Khuda hay
Fi-Amanillah


Baishak...

Wasalam

#23 al-syedia

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Posted 07 April 2006 - 07:34 AM

yaar wat an i say abt it
but i have heard that this nahjul asrar is not credible
corrct me if i m wrong

#24 ashikra

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 02:03 AM

(bismillah)
(salam)
yeah hai farmna Mola Ali as ka...
ap ka kia kihal hai is farman ki bare mein..
Bar Muqasreen Lanat..beshummar

Quran says
"O Mankind! Worship your Lord Who has created you and those before you, haply you may become pious."
Surah Al-Baqara : Ayat 21

Quran says

"And Who made the earth a bed for you, and the sky a structure and caused water to come down from heaven hence brought forth therewith some fruits for your food, therefore do not set up equals for Allah knowingly."
Surah Al-Baqara : Ayat 22


Lastly main sirf yah kahna jahoon gah kay agar koi Muslim Quran par kar bi aysay aqeeday ki paerwee karay jo Quran aur Allah kay farameen kay MUGALIF ho to woh insan dosray Muslims ko Qumrah kar raha hai.

Farman-e-Imam as kay asa farman jo hum say mansoob kiya ho aur woh quran aur hadees ki nafi karay usay utta kar dewaare per mar do

Advance Sorry for mistakes in Writing
If you have any doubt please contact me syedshahsweet2003@gmail.com

#25 MOHIB E AHLAYBAIT

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 11:22 AM

Jo farman quran ka mukhalif ho ussay deewar per mar do sahi hai lekin kiy quran ko hum samjh gayee hai 100% ya jo ayat quote key hai oper unhia 100% samjh gayee kay keh sakay is ayat key rooshni mei jo OP nay farman post kiya hai woh ghalat hai.



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