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Islamic ruling on Porn


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#1 lAun ali rizvi

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Posted 25 February 2006 - 05:54 PM

Ok no jokes, be serious guys, according to Ayatullah al-udma al-syed Fadullah (HA) is porn allowed?


This might effect my final decision in choosing my Marja.

#2 The Antimason

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Posted 25 February 2006 - 06:12 PM

Make porn, not war!

I think it is a lie.

#3 ImamiMehdi

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Posted 25 February 2006 - 06:14 PM

This might effect my final decision in choosing my Marja.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


yeh but ask for a justification. im sure such a high ranking scholar would be able to fully justify.

#4 The Antimason

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Posted 25 February 2006 - 06:21 PM

yeh but ask for a justification. im sure such a high ranking scholar would be able to fully justify.


is there any justification for porn? :sick:

#5 Little Brother

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Posted 25 February 2006 - 07:23 PM

This is no matter of debate or questioning... No Mar'ja will take his time to answer such a question...

Brother Porn is totally denied in Islam..

#6 Little Brother

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Posted 25 February 2006 - 07:27 PM

yeh but ask for a justification. im sure such a high ranking scholar would be able to fully justify.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I think you're posting in the wrong thread.. Hehe..

#7 Muskateer_004

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Posted 26 February 2006 - 01:45 AM

This is no matter of debate or questioning... No Mar'ja will take his time to answer such a question...

Brother Porn is totally denied in Islam..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Dont be too sure about it.


Q: Is it permissible for a frigid wife or husband to watch pornographic scenes?

A: I don’t think it has been scientifically proven that watching pornographic films is a reliable treatment for frigidity; on the contrary, it often has negative results. Also, morally speaking, this weakens moral immunity, and attaches people, even couples, to a mood of dissolution which makes man feel alienated from his wife when she fails to imitate the woman who plays the sexual role in the film, and makes the wife alienated from her husband if he fails to imitate the male figure.

Similarly, the same thing happens upon fornication. When a man fornicates with an experienced [Edited Out], he feels disappointed when his wife fails to offer moves similar to the ones offered by the [Edited Out], who has provided him with all elements of excitement. Perhaps this is one among the reasons that have led some jurists to forbid temporary marriage (mutaa) to common prostitutes. So, we believe that the x-rated movies and pornography have a negative impact on the spiritual, moral and family sides of a person; thus, I forbid it for spouses.

But, if a husband or a wife, or both suffer frigidity in the absence of any means of treatment, whether natural- through mutual excitation -or through medication, and if the only treatment is watching pornographic scenes, then this will be permissible, only because this is the only means, keeping in mind that this should be done apart from any excess, just like taking the proper dosage of the medicine prescribed, provided that this passive situation may threaten their matrimonial life.


Source: http://english.bayyn...rudence/sex.htm

Edited by Ibrahim, 26 February 2006 - 01:46 AM.


#8 Khademat_AhlulBayt

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Posted 26 February 2006 - 05:55 AM

(salam)

discussed here : http://www.shiachat....topic=31250&hl=

#9 The Antimason

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Posted 26 February 2006 - 09:08 AM

But, if a husband or a wife, or both suffer frigidity in the absence of any means of treatment, whether natural- through mutual excitation -or through medication, and if the only treatment is watching pornographic scenes, then this will be permissible, only because this is the only means, keeping in mind that this should be done apart from any excess, just like taking the proper dosage of the medicine prescribed, provided that this passive situation may threaten their matrimonial life.


Great, a husband using porn as a medicine, masallah.

Honestly, no wife would allow this !

#10 TEH

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Posted 28 February 2006 - 07:09 PM

OK erm, if this is a shia belief, then just wow, this is like whole new level stuff..

My mind is on the verge of breakdown, help me Lord...

What happened to the Awrah of men and women?

<_<

#11 Little Brother

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 05:52 AM

I personally find it disgusting... Sorry for hurting your feelings guys...

#12 oot patang

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 05:56 AM

I personally find it disgusting... Sorry for hurting your feelings guys...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


have u watched it??
:!!!:

#13 oot patang

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 05:57 AM

How is this so-called ruling possible?  A man is not permitted to gaze lustfully at a woman who is not his wife, nor is a woman permitted to gaze lustfully at a man who is not her husband.  How are they going to watch porn with gazes lowered?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


maybe seeing lustfully in picture or movie is allowed as opposed to real life??
jus wontering :huh:

#14 Little Brother

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 06:39 AM

Well I find it wrong :(

#15 Little Brother

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 06:58 AM

have u watched it??
:!!!:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



:!!!: LOOL :!!!:

NO!!!

I was talking about the point of permissibility for a frigid wife or husband to watch pornographic scenes..

#16 Ali Zaki

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 09:32 AM

If that were the case, men and women could talk freely over webcam, without any need for modesty, because it is video image, not real life.  Also, if it isn't permitted to . . .er. . . act. . . in these vidoes, how can it be permitted to watch them?

I guess a husband and wife could record themselves and watch, but. . . .if they can record themselves, do they need to use this loophole?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


(salam)

First, I want to say that I do not follow Sayed Fadlallah, however....

What he seems to be saying is that if the only way for a husband and wife to become exicited to facilitate intercourse is by watching such movies then it is permitted ONLY IN THIS SPECIFIC CASE. I.O.W.,

It is forbidden for a man not to have intercourse with his wife for an extended period of time, as it is forbidden for a wife to refuse intercourse with her husband (at any time). So, if the alternatives are divorce (because of inablity of one or the other partner to please eachother, despite exhausting all other methods of treatment) or watching a pornographic film then watching the film is permissible ONLY until another alternative becomes possible.

Here's the reality check, even if you do follow Sayed Fadlallah as your marja....

It seems to me almost impossible that a couple could find themselves in this situation. We have, for example, Viagra and other similar medication that is HIGHLY EFFECTIVE FOR ALMOST ALL MEN. On the women side, most women are not particularly found of pornography anyway, so it most likely will not be the women needing this.

Also, the reality is that most frigidity problems are not biological but PYSCHOLOGICAL, and marriage counseling should be the FIRST STEP (even before medication) in this situation. Couseling is also sometimes highly effective in this situation. I also believe that non-pornographic (i.e., written material, diagrams, drawings, etc.) sexual education is important for married couples having such problems. Often times the husband or wife wants to please the other, but simply doesn't know how (and is embarrased to ask). Many, many books have been written on this subject, many avilable for free at the LOCAL LIBRARY!

Also, I think (and this is a radical idea, I know, but completely halal and even encouraged Islamically) mosques should organize sex education classes for MARRIED COUPLES ONLY where frank, open discussions can happen (of course, females teaching the wives in segregated session and males teaching the husbands in a segregated session) about "tips and tricks" to spice things up! If that was done, there would be no need (or desire) to focus on anything other then your partner for the vast majority of Muslim couples.

#17 Ali Zaki

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 09:41 AM

Wow, that is radical.  I wonder if it would be helpful to have these classes as part of a pre-marriage counseling?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


(salam) Sister,

Actually, I think there are more important issues in pre-marriage counseling (i.e., "the basics"), and better not to put too much on the couple at that stage. Also, it is highly unusual (for many reasons) to have these problems within 6 months to 1 year of the wedding. Better to give them a "rain-check" to be redeemed 12 to 18 months later for these classes, I.M.O.

#18 Muhammed Ali

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 04:41 PM

sayed fadlallah's ruling in another book:

What is the ruling on looking at sex films and pornographic photos?

The Shariah and ethical principles prohibit looking at the private parts of another person. This fundamentally applies equally to looking at private parts in pictures or films. The reason is that the negative aspects of the latter are almost the same as those of the former. We do not, however, see this as the main criterion in the legal rulings (fatawa); instead specific circumstances dictate the ruling. For there is a condition which afflicts some people to the point where looking at such films may save the marriage, as in the case of frigidity, impotence, or similar dysfunction in either spouse, and looking at such films may offer a cure. Viewing these films and pictures beyond these circumstances, however, may lead to spiritual dissolution, to the point where the viewer becomes obsessed with the ideas of the film and acting them out, necessitating a prohibition-despite the situations which warrant a certain amount of license, as in the first scenario.

http://www.al-islam....orldyouth/4.htm

no disrespect to him, but what is the daleel? does islam allow for that exception and how on earth would it help a married couple more than the harm it would bring??

#19 Ali Zaki

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 04:50 PM

sayed fadlallah's ruling in another book:

http://www.al-islam....orldyouth/4.htm

no disrespect to him, but what is the daleel? does islam allow for that exception and how on earth would it help a married couple more than the harm it would bring??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


(salam) Brother,

Why don't you send him an email, http://english.bayyn...lb/QA/index.htm, and let us know what he says? I would be interested in learning more about this fatwa, as it seems to be contrary to the understanding of many of us on this issue.

B.T.W., I sent an email to Ayatollah Sayed Sistani (r.a.), and will post his response (inshahAllah) if/when one is received.

Edited by Ali Zaki, 01 March 2006 - 05:05 PM.


#20 Muhammed Ali

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 05:14 PM

(salam)

done. inshallah i will post the reply here if i get it.

#21 Lester

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 05:51 PM

pretty much everything is haraam, so might as well just use your own judgement. Certain people are affected by porn and others don;t care. it's just their personality. on the other hand, people that don;t like it don't want to be around it. IN general though, it's for men not women. women are less visual more god who knows? crazy !

#22 Fatimaa

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 05:56 PM

(bismillah) (salam)

(salam) Brother,

Why don't you send him an email, http://english.bayyn...lb/QA/index.htm, and let us know what he says? I would be interested in learning more about this fatwa, as it seems to be contrary to the understanding of many of us on this issue.

B.T.W., I sent an email to Ayatollah Sayed Sistani (r.a.), and will post his response (inshahAllah) if/when one is received.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Great Job Brother!!!!

Well this topic and ruling of Fadlullah(RA) is undigestable for me. :(
Sorry my post was not needed but I just wanted to share what i thought. :Hijabi:

Wassalam.

#23 Simba

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 06:39 PM

Ok, i wasnt intending to reply on this thread but seriously, some people in here need to relax and realize that Islam is a "perfect" way of life. Also, stop making pathetic response on ayatullah's rulings especially when you yourself are enigmatic about a situation.

I'll give you an example, lets say you were flying from somewhere and one the way your plane crashed and now you're stuck in desert where there is no food or water and you are almost dying. THE ONLY FOOD THAT IS AVAILABLE TO YOU IS A BOTTLE OF BEER OR PORK. In this case, what would you do or what does Islam tell you to do?? Simple, Islam tells you to consume that beer or pork BUT ONLY AS MUCH THAT IS ENOUGH FOR YOU TO SURVIVE. Similarly, when there is NO KNOWN MEDICATION for a couple that is suffering from sexual dysnfunction and according to their doctor, watching porn would be THE ONLY solution then you are allowed to watch it BUT only as much as you require to elicit a response i.e. minimmum dosage (just like minnimum consumption of pork and alcohol that is required to save you from dying).

Both of these are very hypothetical, though logical, situations because in todays advanced world, there is no way a person would not find help in the desert or medication for sexual dysfunction. As far as i know, there are various kinds of halal therapies to treat sexual dysfunction therefore it wouldnt be necessary to use something haraam as treatment.

See, Islam is a way of life. Sex and medicine are part of life and therefore are part of Islam. Everything is really logical and simple. Learn how to apply your own brains and make unbiased decissions before attacking ayatullahs or bombarding them with emails.

#24 Bro.Djibril

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 06:53 PM

Wa salaam,

In Islam, there is an important concept to remember when discussing fiqh: Hukm waqai and hukm thanawi. The first hukm being the primary rule and the latter being the secondary rule. How does that apply here? Let's take an example of wudhu. It is wajib to perform wudhu if you are in a state of uncleanliness before you perform salat. However, if the salat time is running out (say within the next 2 minutes) and you know it takes you 3 minutes to perform wudhu then it is incumbent upon you to perform tayammum. Wudhu being the primary condition and tayammum being the secondary condition.

It is unlawful for people to gaze at the nakedness of the opposite sex but if a man has been injured and the only doctor in the area is a female and in order for her to assist him she must undo his shirt, etc., it is permissible.

Ayt. Fadhlallah is only saying that if the husband and wife can not find any other means with which to incite intercourse between the couple then this case, pornography is allowed. His is not the only marja to have allowed this. However, he carefully notes that outside of helping a bad situation between the husband and wife leads to spiritual dissolution.

Islam is about not going to extremes and staying in the middle road. I'm not saying, "okay everyone you can now go and purchase Debbie Does Dallas" but only saying that as a marja, Ayt. Fadhallah has to be able to deal with people and situations that are constantly changing. Each mujtahid has the same challenge. We have to respect his handling of the matter because it would have been very easy to say no and move on to the next fatwa. He, at least, thought the situation through and came to a conclusion. May Allah reward him for his effort and I pray that whoever asked the question was not misled.

Wa Salaam,
Bro.Djibril

#25 renault

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 07:08 PM

B.T.W., I sent an email to Ayatollah Sayed Sistani (r.a.), and will post his response (inshahAllah) if/when one is received.


This topic is only created to demonise an ayatollah, and yet he is allowed to be demonised, just because he is not liked amongst the members of this forum?

Any other topic started on a different ayatollah like sistani would long have been locked.



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