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Muhammad Hussain Najafi (Dhako) [TOPICS MERGED]


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#1 vsg

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Posted 12 December 2005 - 08:06 PM

I have heard a lot about this individual, and it seems that he has said/written stuff which is extremly contriversial, so is there anywhere on the net, where I can read or listen to his views ?

And by His views I do not mean the views which are associated to him, so please do not copy/paste some long essays against him....

Also I am really only intrested in reading his views and NOT discussing him....


Thankyou

#2 Marbles

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Posted 12 December 2005 - 09:34 PM

I have heard a lot about this individual, and it seems that he has said/written stuff which is extremly contriversial, so is there anywhere on the net, where I can read or listen to his views ?

And by His views I do not mean the views which are associated to him, so please do not copy/paste some long essays against him....

Also I am really only intrested in reading his views and NOT discussing him....
Thankyou

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


(salam)

Below, I give the first hand knowledge of Muhammad Hussain Dhakkoo and inshallah with no bias.

My sources of information are his two books which I have read and our discussions(me and my group) with him face to face in Multan City in Muharram 2003 or 2004 probably (I don't exactly remember the date, since I have undergone too many migrations in the last couple of years :) )

He has written a Risaala in which he has compiled his religious verdicts as a Marji', and as a proof of his status as a marji, he states in his risalaa that 4 marje of Qom and Najaf, the names of whom I forget, had given him ijaaza to do ijtehad and to be followed by the laity as a Marji. Therefore, the first page of his risaala after his image states his name as, "Ayatullah ul-uzmaa Shaykh Muhmmad Hussain Dhakkoo alayeh Rehmaa, marje-e-shee'aan-e-Pakistan".

The very book which made him famous among the Shia masses in Pakistan as well as in neighbouring countries was titled "Islaah-ar-rasoom". I have read this book. Without any bias and with responsibility, I can say that the language of book and the temprament of the writer was very very immature. It could have been a work of a contentious layman but not of a scholar who claims to be marji' as well.

In that book, he has persuaded Shia to abondon all of the wrong rituals and practices which were the hallmark and identity of Hinduism but not of Islam at all. And I agree that many things he talked about really needed to be abondoned or reformed in the un-educated Shia circles of the specifically rural Pakistan. After writing about those false rituals and practices he turns his pen towards some of the beliefs held by the Shia.

He says in his book that "Muslim should only ask Allah for mery, help, for childern, for money and everything. A Muslim (Shia) can't ask masoomeen directly to give all these things. We can't say O Ali give me a child or O Hussain give me money rather we should ask Allah and use the masoomeen as an intermediary." He says that he believes in intercession and does not deny it. He also says that he believe in "Ya Ali Madad" but it doesn't mean that we can ask Ali directly what should be asked to Allah.

He also says that the Ilm (knowlegde) of Imam is not his own but of Allah's. Imam only knows about unseen as long as Allah tells him. Thus Imam's knowledge is completely depended on Allah and it is wrong to assume that Imam known ALL at any moment, and at any time, and about everything unseen in the life.

He is also strongly against the making of the image or symbol of the "Sej" of Hazrat Qasim (the story of his marriage with the daughter of Imam Hussain) and says that it is a false story like many other incidents written in the history books which has no basis. We Shia deem every thing written in history books regarding incident of karbala and its aftermath as 100% correct and authentic but it is not the case. Even a layman doesn't want to show the "Sej" of his daughter to any stranger, so, how can we Shia think that Imam Hussain would like every good and bad to see the "Sej" of his daughter?

He is also against Zanjeer and Qama zani and says that it has no basis in the religion. NO Imam ordered it or even gave a hint to do such things in the name of azadari, mourning. Shia have developed this tendency later in history and tried to justify its wrongs and impacts.

Dhakko talks against these and few other issues. I also notied that he puts his opinion in certain matters in a very strong and extreme way where a Muslim have a choice either to do it or not, like the matter of the value of mehr and personal expenditure according to his living standards etc.

He has also made an insulting remark, according to me, unknowingly, against Prophet (pbuh). While writing about the value of dowry and mehr, he, after detailing the goods which Prophet (pbuh) gave as a dowry to his daughter, writes that:(im quoting him in urdu since I don't want to translate it in English).." Aagar Rasullah kee naak itna kam jahez denay se nahi kat'tee to aaj ke musalmaan kee naak kyuN kar kat saktee hai". After the publication of the first edition of the book, and on realising his grave mistake, he removes the sentence from the next publication and there are reports that he had apoligised on his bad use of language for Prophet. ( I have not seen any written statement yet).

A Shia student, Abbas Qumi, has written a book in response in which, he empahtically denies ALL what had been said by Dhakoo. Quite surprisingly, I see the same immature behaviour and not-so-convincing style of the arguments. Qummi is more concerend with attacking the personality of Dhakko rather with his beliefs. To me, the book (in reply), does not serve the purpose fully.

Dhakkoo has been invited for a public debate (munazira) many times by different scholars and their students but he doesn't agree for a debate and says( I have seen him saying this) that "these little rats are nothing in front of me. They are born yesterday and now they are claiming to be more superior in knowledge to a person who have been learning all his life in Qom and Najaf". To me, it is a very immature and insulting statement.

He has been accused of being a Zionists' spy. An agent who works for money only to create fitnaah and disorder among Shia. (does'nt seem to me the case at all). I heard Dhakkoo saying that all those who claim that I am an Isreali spy, if they prove a bit of it to be true, I will abondon everything and will present myself to them to do to me whatever they think is just.

Wallahu Aalam.

Jibran

#3 Marbles

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Posted 12 December 2005 - 09:44 PM

I have heard a lot about this individual, and it seems that he has said/written stuff which is extremly contriversial, so is there anywhere on the net, where I can read or listen to his views ?


I don't think he has any website where you can read his books or articles. But there is a website where you can listen to the Muharram Majalis recited by Dhakkoo in Multan (the Muharram I was referring to). I had visited the site back then when I was in Pakistan but now I have totally forgotten its URL. I will try to contact his Multani friends and find out the link to that site. Inshallah

A short word on rumours.

Before talking to Dhakoo personally, I have head that he denies the Ilm-e-Ghayb of the Imams, denies their Ismaa (infallibility), denies "Ya Ali Madad" or "Ya Ali adriknee", denies intercession, and considers mourning (azaadari) of Imam Hussain and Ahlul bayt to be biddah (innovation in religion). BUT infact, all these rumours proved to be false. Though his perception of the above mentioned is different from the conventional Shia point of view, it doesn't necessarily means that he ACTUALLY DENIES that all.

Wallahu Aalam

#4 vsg

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Posted 12 December 2005 - 09:51 PM

thnx a lot for that detailed account bro, this information is indeed really helpfull
the claim of him being a marja' is indeed new to me ....I do believe he was a mujtahid (again I can be wrong here) but now that he has published his risalla, would make him a marja' right ????(people who have more knowlidge about this please correct me if I am wrong)

#5 Orion

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Posted 12 December 2005 - 10:00 PM

Below, I give the first hand knowledge of Muhammad Hussain Dhakkoo and inshallah with no bias.

My sources of information are his two books which I have read and our discussions(me and my group) with him face to face in Multan City in Muharram 2003 or 2004 probably (I don't exactly remember the date, since I have undergone too many migrations in the last couple of years :) )

He has written a Risaala in which he has compiled his religious verdicts as a Marji', and as a proof of his status as a marji, he states in his risalaa that 4 marje of Qom and Najaf, the names of whom I forget, had given him ijaaza to do ijtehad and to be followed by the laity as a Marji. Therefore, the first page of his risaala after his image states his name as, "Ayatullah ul-uzmaa Shaykh Muhmmad Hussain Dhakkoo alayeh Rehmaa, marje-e-shee'aan-e-Pakistan".

The very book which made him famous among the Shia masses in Pakistan as well as in neighbouring countries was titled "Islaah-ar-rasoom". I have read this book. Without any bias and with responsibility, I can say that the language of book and the temprament of the writer was very very immature. It could have been a work of a contentious layman but not of a scholar who claims to be marji' as well.

In that book, he has persuaded Shia to abondon all of the wrong rituals and practices which were the hallmark and identity of Hinduism but not of Islam at all. And I agree that many things he talked about really needed to be abondoned or reformed in the un-educated Shia circles of the specifically rural Pakistan. After writing about those false rituals and practices he turns his pen towards some of the beliefs held by the Shia.

He says in his book that "Muslim should only ask Allah for mery, help, for childern, for money and everything. A Muslim (Shia) can't ask masoomeen directly to give all these things. We can't say O Ali give me a child or O Hussain give me money rather we should ask Allah and use the masoomeen as an intermediary." He says that he believes in intercession and does not deny it. He also says that he believe in "Ya Ali Madad" but it doesn't mean that we can ask Ali directly what should be asked to Allah.

He also says that the Ilm (knowlegde) of Imam is not his own but of Allah's. Imam only knows about unseen as long as Allah tells him. Thus Imam's knowledge is completely depended on Allah and it is wrong to assume that Imam known ALL at any moment, and at any time, and about everything unseen in the life.

He is also strongly against the making of the image or symbol of the "Sej" of Hazrat Qasim (the story of his marriage with the daughter of Imam Hussain) and says that it is a false story like many other incidents written in the history books which has no basis. We Shia deem every thing written in history books regarding incident of karbala and its aftermath as 100% correct and authentic but it is not the case. Even a layman doesn't want to show the "Sej" of his daughter to any stranger, so, how can we Shia think that Imam Hussain would like every good and bad to see the "Sej" of his daughter?

He is also against Zanjeer and Qama zani and says that it has no basis in the religion. NO Imam ordered it or even gave a hint to do such things in the name of azadari, mourning. Shia have developed this tendency later in history and tried to justify its wrongs and impacts.

Dhakko talks against these and few other issues. I also notied that he puts his opinion in certain matters in a very strong and extreme way where a Muslim have a choice either to do it or not, like the matter of the value of mehr and personal expenditure according to his living standards etc.

He has also made an insulting remark, according to me, unknowingly, against Prophet (pbuh). While writing about the value of dowry and mehr, he, after detailing the goods which Prophet (pbuh) gave as a dowry to his daughter, writes that:(im quoting him in urdu since I don't want to translate it in English).." Aagar Rasullah kee naak itna kam jahez denay se nahi kat'tee to aaj ke musalmaan kee naak kyuN kar kat saktee hai". After the publication of the first edition of the book, and on realising his grave mistake, he removes the sentence from the next publication and there are reports that he had apoligised on his bad use of language for Prophet. ( I have not seen any written statement yet).

A Shia student, Abbas Qumi, has written a book in response in which, he empahtically denies ALL what had been said by Dhakoo. Quite surprisingly, I see the same immature behaviour and not-so-convincing style of the arguments. Qummi is more concerend with attacking the personality of Dhakko rather with his beliefs. To me, the book (in reply), does not serve the purpose fully.

Dhakkoo has been invited for a public debate (munazira) many times by different scholars and their students but he doesn't agree for a debate and says( I have seen him saying this) that "these little rats are nothing in front of me. They are born yesterday and now they are claiming to be more superior in knowledge to a person who have been learning all his life in Qom and Najaf". To me, it is a very immature and insulting statement.

He has been accused of being a Zionists' spy. An agent who works for money only to create fitnaah and disorder among Shia. (does'nt seem to me the case at all).  I heard Dhakkoo saying that all those who claim that I am an Isreali spy, if they prove a bit of it to be true, I will abondon everything and will present myself to them to do to me whatever they think is just.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


(bismillah)

(salam)

This is the first time I have come across someone on this board who has read his book first hand and have talked with him in person. So far what you have stated about his views I find nothing drastically objectionable. As far as his remark about the Prophet (pbuh) I would agree that he should not have used those words. But they sound to me as a mistake rather than an attempt to disrespect. A lot to do posibly with culture and language.

It would be interesting to know that who gave him the Ijaza of Ijtehad.

WS

#6 vsg

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Posted 12 December 2005 - 10:07 PM

http://sibtain.org/urdu/biography.html

wow this is new for me, however it is still to be decided who gave him his ijaza

#7 Marbles

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Posted 12 December 2005 - 11:13 PM

(bismillah)

(salam)

This is the first time I have come across someone on this board who has read his book first hand and have talked with him in person. So far what you have stated about his views I find nothing drastically objectionable. As far as his remark about the Prophet  (pbuh) I would agree that he should not have used those words. But they sound to me as a mistake rather than an attempt to disrespect. A lot to do posibly with culture and language.

It would be interesting to know that who gave him the Ijaza of Ijtehad.

WS

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


(salam)

I agree to your statement that there is nothing drastically objectionable regarding his above mentioned beliefs. Personally, I'm neither against him (and I think what had been said about him is extreme exaggeration) neither I rever him as one of the great and leading scholar. The language and style of one of his books I mentioned, according to me, is absolutely not suitable for a scholar who calims to be a marja'. And his remark about the Prophet (pbuh) I think it was a mistake rather than a delibrate attempt to disrespect Prophet (pbuh) but surprisingly, it became the most effective tool in the hands of his opponents.

I would have provided the names of Maraje who gave him ijaazah of ijtehaad,but alas, I'm thousands of miles away from my precious library which is unattended these dayz :(

Also, I remember his oppenent Abbas Qumi has mentioned that one of the Maraje who gave Dhakkoo ijazah of ijtehaad (It was late Ayatullah Mar'ashi Najafi if I'm not mistaken), when came to know about his beliefs and his attitude towards other Marajae, had openly disassociated himself from his student. It is also claimed in that book that Ayatullah Mar'ashi Najafi turned his face when Dhakkoo went to meet him. I could not verify this from independent reliable source.

I want to admit that my knowledge of Dhakkoo's other beliefs is limited. Perhaps one can read about his beliefs in his book "Aqaid-e-Shia". I haven't read it so I can't comment on it. As far as what his opponents have said and still say, it revolves around his beliefs which I mentioned in the first post. Apart from these specific beliefs, I haven't heard or read any of his opponents talking or writing about issues, more "serious" than those found above.

Another important thing is that Dhakkoo is completely against "receiving a fixed amount of money as a payment to recite Majalis." He believes that any fixed or agreed amount of money, which a zakir, recitor or a scholar gets for reciting a majlis, is absolutely haraam. He calls such people, "Taajiraan-e-khoon-e-Hussain" ( traders of the blood of Hussain). Rather, those who arrange the majalis, should give an amount of money to the recitor as a Hadiya (a gift or reward) but not as a FEE. Dhakkoo in his books uses typically slanderous language against all those who receive a fee for reciting a majlis and even calls them equal to dogs ( and I find such attitude objectionable). and I think that could be the reason for extreme criticisim and thus rejection of Dhakoo by many of the zaakireen, who find it alright to receive a fee of a majlis, as it is a common practice in Pakistan.

Wallau aalam

#8 Marbles

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Posted 12 December 2005 - 11:24 PM

http://sibtain.org/urdu/biography.html

wow this is new for me, however it is still to be decided who gave him his ijaza

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Oh brother. I didn't know that he has got an official website. Thats a new info for me. I think we can ask him directly that who gave him ijaaza by contacting him if we wish so.

Ws

#9 vsg

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Posted 12 December 2005 - 11:31 PM

^ I emailed him already bro ;)

#10 Marbles

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Posted 12 December 2005 - 11:41 PM

^ I emailed him already bro ;)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Please post here when you get the reply.

#11 Sadqain

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Posted 13 December 2005 - 01:57 AM

Well, If you guys really want to know more about Dhakoo Sahab, Join Paltlak. go in Indian pakistani Catagory and join the Room Aqaid-e-Haqqa.... The Administrator of the room is Agha Molai, He is still a muqalid of Khoie Sahab but also follow Dhakoo Sahab and if I remeber correctly, He brought dhakoo sahab on Paltak as well.
So, if yopu really intrested in knowing about Dhakoo Sahab join Paltalk its free voice chat program
go to www.paltalk.com

#12 vsg

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Posted 13 December 2005 - 01:58 AM

btw guys I have heard a lot about Paltalk, how does it actually work Imena is it liking a chatting network ??

#13 Sadqain

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Posted 13 December 2005 - 02:02 AM

btw guys I have heard a lot about Paltalk, how does it actually work Imena is it liking a chatting network ??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


well yeah its chating network you can talk to each other by voice... its like first you talk and then you listen and you can type also

#14 Guest_DjibrilCisse_*

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Posted 13 December 2005 - 02:58 AM

Sounds like another version of that Jaffer lady who got kicked out of Bombay last year.

In fact, many of their quotes seem to match exactly, as well as their main points of discussion.

#15 Orion

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Posted 13 December 2005 - 09:29 AM

(bismillah)

(salam)

Apart from the harsh language, is there any major deviation from core Shia beliefs?

WS

#16 Orion

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Posted 13 December 2005 - 09:51 AM

Sounds like another version of that Jaffer lady who got kicked out of Bombay last year.

In fact, many of their quotes seem to match exactly, as well as their main points of discussion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


(bismillah)

(salam)

I think I read about the issue at that time, all she was saying was that we should not do things that are not wajib thinking that they are wajib.

WS

#17 vsg

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Posted 13 December 2005 - 01:11 PM

Well if what brothe Jibran has posted, does indeed reflect the views of Moulana Hussain Najafi, then I really do not see why such a fuss was created about him..
Further more if he indeed has reached the level of Marjiyaat, we should all respect him (that is IF )

#18 widad

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Posted 13 December 2005 - 06:58 PM

(salam)

I think I read about the issue at that time, all she was saying was that we should not do things that are not wajib thinking that they are wajib.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Not to go off topic, but that issue was over dramaticised. Some of what she says is correct, and some is not.

Wa`Salaam

#19 Orion

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Posted 13 December 2005 - 07:13 PM

(salam)
Not to go off topic, but that issue was over dramaticised. Some of what she says is correct, and some is not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


(bismillah)

(salam)

So what did she say wrong?

WS

#20 Biryani

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Posted 13 December 2005 - 08:20 PM

I have heard a lot about this individual, and it seems that he has said/written stuff which is extremly contriversial, so is there anywhere on the net, where I can read or listen to his views ?

And by His views I do not mean the views which are associated to him, so please do not copy/paste some long essays against him....

Also I am really only intrested in reading his views and NOT discussing him....
Thankyou

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

whats with u n controversy... sheeshh..

controversy is over rated buddy..

#21 vsg

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Posted 13 December 2005 - 09:08 PM

^ bro remember, just because majority says something, it does not mean its right

#22 Marbles

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Posted 13 December 2005 - 09:44 PM

^ bro remember, just because majority says something, it does not mean its right

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Sometimes its not the majority. Its actually a projection of their rejection and perpetual propaganda against a certain individual in such a way that it appears to be a voice of majority. (I think this is the case with M.H. Najafi Dhakoo)

#23 vsg

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Posted 13 December 2005 - 09:49 PM

you could be right here bro, because I know for a fact that in Pakistan if people want to bring someone down, they "really" bring him down......

#24 Marbles

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Posted 13 December 2005 - 10:54 PM

you could be right here bro, because I know for a fact that in Pakistan if people want to bring someone down, they "really" bring him down......

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Yeah seems to me to be true. I feel sorry for some of the Shia circles and organisations in Pakistan. There are some who have tried to "bring down" Ayatullah khamenei and labelled him as muqassar and enemy of religion (astaghfirullah) only because:

* He does not allow to recite the third Shahadah in the tashahud of prayers and says that any thing which is NOT wajib, if recited with an intention of being wajib, voids the prayer even if the words are ture and haq..And he says that one should suffice to the usual tashahud. (this makes him muqassar and rejectionist of wilayah)

* He gave a fatwa against zanjeer and qama zani and says that it is haraam. (this makes him an "enemy of the religion")

Such an attitude is surely sick.

Wallahu Aalam

Edited by Jibran Haider, 13 December 2005 - 11:05 PM.


#25 Marbles

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Posted 13 December 2005 - 11:04 PM

(salam)

A question came to my mind linked to maulana Dhakoo, his book and his opponent Qumi.

Abbas Qumi in his book against Dhakoo has too often named and quoted late "Shaykh Khalsi of Kazmain". Qumi has drawn a table of similarities between Khalsi and Dhakkoo and their beliefs. He says that "Khalsi is the master of Dhakko, a Muqassar who was opposed and rejected by the marajae and now, Dhakkoo has taken his job".

I have no knowledge of Shaykh Khalsi other than what I have read in Qumi's book. Can anyone here give a brief introduction of Shaykh Khalsi and his beliefs from reliable sources?

Remember that Qumi has accused Shaykh Khalsi of being an Israeli spy who worked for money and status and according to him it was proved later on. Is this anywhere near truth?

Thanx
WS

Edited by Jibran Haider, 13 December 2005 - 11:10 PM.




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