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The Stone Shia's Pray On


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#1 Al-Mukhtar

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 10:43 PM

(salam)

I no that the stone we pray on is from Karbala, but a sunni friend of mine asked why we pray on it and i didnt no what to answer. So why do we pray on this???

Wasalam,


-Tiba

#2 queenjafri

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 10:50 PM

sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh) to pray on something from the earth.

#3 Al-Mukhtar

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 10:53 PM

Can I get proof through a hadith or something like that?


-Tiba

#4 ailia

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 11:03 PM

^^some correction.........we don't pray on it........we do only "sajdah" on it.......& tis not a "stone" at all,tis a piece of "earth" from Karbala.
& tis is not a new thing to do sajda on a pariticuler thing such as "mud" or anything else.........as tis was also done by PROPHET(pbuh).
Bukhari......kitab-u-salat.......hadith no-432.

ailia

#5 Diesel

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 11:13 PM

it can be from ANYWHERE, mine is not from karbala- the point is to pray on earth (clay, mud, straw, sand, etc).

Edited by Diesel, 20 June 2005 - 11:14 PM.


#6 ailia

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 11:26 PM

Can I get proof through a hadith or something like that?
-Tiba

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



(salam)

^^here is one from Bukhari;

Volumn 001, Book 008, Hadith Number 429.  -----------------------------------------  Narated By Jabir bin 'Abdullah : Allah's Apostle said, "I have been given five things which were not given to any amongst the Prophets before me. These are:    1. Allah made me victorious by awe (by His frightening my enemies) for a distance of one month's journey.  2. The earth has been made for me (and for my followers) a place for praying and a thing to perform Tayammum. Therefore my followers can pray wherever the time of a prayer is due.  3. The booty has been made Halal (lawful) for me (and was not made so for anyone else).  4. Every Prophet used to be sent to his nation exclusively but I have been sent 1o all mankind.  5. I have been given the right of intercession (on the Day of Resurrection.) 



i am also ;looking for another one which is more explaining.stay on i will post just in minutes inshAllah.

ailia

#7 Ali

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 11:30 PM

Salam.

Here are all the hadeeths you need:

http://www.shia.org/AboutPrayers.htm

#8 kadhim

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 11:33 PM

Can I get proof through a hadith or something like that?
-Tiba

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Actually, a good response is to ask them for hadith that say prostrating on carpet and other man-made materials is allowed. That Muhammad (saws) prostrated on sand and earth in the early masjids in Medina and Mecca is indisputable.

#9 Guest_jnoobi_nami_*

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 11:53 PM

(bismillah)

To make the sunna brothers understand why we pray on the Turbah. Its good to show them some Ahadith from their suuna scholars about this matter

Narrated Abu Sa'id al-Khudri: I saw Allah's Apostle prostrating in mud and water and saw the mark of mud on his forehead.[Al-Bukhari, Sahih (English translation), vol. 1, book 12, no. 798; vol. 3, book 33,no. 244]


Narrated Anas bin Malik: We used to pray with the Prophet in scorching heat, and if someone of us could not put his face on the earth (because of the heat) then he would spread his clothes and prostrate over them.
[Al-Bukhari, Sahih (English translation), vol. 2, book 22, no. 299]

Narrated Maymuna: Allah's Apostle used to pray on a Khumra.
[Al-Bukhari, Sahih (English translation), vol. 1, book 8, no. 378]

According to al-Shawkani, a famous Sunni scholar, more than ten Companions of the Prophet (s) have narrated traditions mentioning his prostration on a Khumrah. And he lists all the Sunni sources recording
these traditions which include Sahih Muslim, Sahih al-Tirmidhi, Sunan Abu Dawud, Sunan al-Nasa'i and many others.
[Al-Shawkani, Nayl al-Awtar ,Chapter of Prostration on the Khumrah, vol. 2, p.128]

If you refer to Sunan of al Tirmidhi, you will see a Hadith reported from
Ummu Salamah: "put your face on Turbah (i.e. while in Sajda)".
This has been reported by al Nasai, Abu Dawood and Hakim also.

Ahmed Hambal has added:"Put your face on Turbah, for the sake of Allah".

So, the Shia pray on Turbah, primarily because it is the practice of our
Prophet (pbuh) and his Companions.
;)

now According to Shia Fiqh, Sajdah should be performed on earth and on those
things which are not edible or worn and on things which grow from the earth
(e.g. wood and leaves of trees). It is not permissible to perform Sajdah on
things which are used as food or dress (e.g. Wheat, barley, cotton etc) nor
on things which are not considered to be parts of soil e.g. gold, silver).

The preference to Kerbala over
other soil is a matter of sentiment, which is essentially attached to the
holy places, including Makka and Madina.


Fie Aman Allah...

#10 ailia

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Posted 21 June 2005 - 12:05 AM

^^jazakAllah......tat wat i looking for,also many more ahadith there for tis action by PROPHET(pbuh).

ailia

#11 krazykaffir

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Posted 21 June 2005 - 01:59 AM

sounds like idolatry to me.

#12 Amir۞Ramadhaan

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Posted 21 June 2005 - 04:25 AM

(bismillah)


Krazykaffir, on a forum where you have the occasional wahabi, it is astounding that a practicioner of eastern religion is one of the most hateful, reactionist members.

#13 krazykaffir

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Posted 21 June 2005 - 03:40 PM

(bismillah)
Krazykaffir, on a forum where you have the occasional wahabi, it is astounding that a practicioner of eastern religion is one of the most hateful, reactionist members.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Why do you care?

We're all "polytheistic idolater infidels" that are the lowest of low and are bound straight for hell?

Such an attitude is what you MUST assume about us, as commanded by Islam and its beliefs (as based on Prophet Mohhamed's intolerance of idolatrous faiths, the savage verses that permit the slaying of any idolater, and the fact that idolatry in Islam is unforgiveable).

Believing anything else would be un-Islamic, so please leave out your peacefull notions

:P

#14 Socrates

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Posted 21 June 2005 - 03:45 PM

My turbah is made from the sand of Mash'had :P

#15 JawzofDETH

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Posted 21 June 2005 - 06:43 PM

Why do you care?

We're all "polytheistic idolater infidels" that are the lowest of low and are bound straight for hell?

Such an attitude is what you MUST assume about us, as commanded by Islam and its beliefs (as based on Prophet Mohhamed's intolerance of idolatrous faiths, the savage verses that permit the slaying of any idolater, and the fact that idolatry in Islam is unforgiveable). 

Believing anything else would be un-Islamic, so please leave out your peacefull notions

:P

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


How did you get so warped?
Was it fun when you lost your mind?

#16 krazykaffir

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Posted 21 June 2005 - 11:10 PM

How did you get so warped?
Was it fun when you lost your mind?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


how am I warped?
I am merely conveying the disgust that the Quran has of idol users.

Edited by krazykaffir, 21 June 2005 - 11:10 PM.


#17 abdullah

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Posted 22 June 2005 - 12:25 AM

sorrn, i dont mean to hurt but
"stone we pray on "


lol. lol

#18 Tahsin_ali_786110

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 01:06 PM

Salaamun alaikum

Bismillah

My name is Tahsin Ali and I have prayed on the Turbah for my whole praying life.

I would like to start by saying that everyone has different levels of acceptance, paths of questioning and reasoning which is good because Islam is a religion of logic, scientific proof and truth from all sides. After all we believe we have been created. Therefore it is important to find out why certain things are practiced so that you understand why you are doing them. Based on this I'm asking is it enough to say "Because the prophet (saw) did it" or "it says in hadith" or "because I dont want to go to hell".

As a shia, I know this is not the case because unlike our brother in ahlus sunnah we are not robotic followers but are more in tune with our duties from an emotion and spiritual perspective as well as physical and mental.

Based on what I think, I can give you the following answers.


1) Taharat - Instead of asking why do I pray on a turbah, ask why do you purposely pray on carpet?

When you are najis or when you seek the state of purity (through wudhu) there are only 2 things which bring about this purity. They are water and earth (tayammum).

Therefore I can say that the reason I pray on earth and not carpet is the same reason I do wudhu with water and not orange juice. Water and Earth make a pure environment, essential for prayer.


2) For those who claim the turbah is idolatry - Would an idol worshipper stand and bear witness in Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì being the one God. Its funny that this argument is the same argument that was brought against the muslims by the kafir when they saw the muslims worshipping the Ka'ba.

In response I can tell you that the muaddhin (caller of the adhaan) used to stand on the Ka'ba. What sense does it make to stand on something that you apparently worship. Similarly, we walk on Earth and there is no way we worship it.


3) Rememberance of death - Rising from the first sujood in a rakaat resembles your birth. You then ask for repentance (in your life), after which you re-enter the grave (earth). Your rememberance of your inevitable death is beneficial for your prayer.


4) Glory be to Allah - Why when we go to Hajj or Umrah do we wear only 2 pieces of cloth and not our new nike tracksuit? Why does this resemble the same 2 pieces of kaffan or shroud given to one who is being prepared for burial. The turbah helps to feel at one with the earth and creation the same way the turbah does.


5) Scientific - In electrical connections there is a ground or earth wire which acts as a natural distribution for electrons carrying charge to be absorbed through, to protect the electrical components. The wave of the atoms which carry our sound when we talk is an example of a wave that has been replicated, but at higher frequencies, which we are not always aware of, that are used to transport out WiFi and mobile phone signals. Our bodies absorb and are subjected to a large amount of radiation. It is only today where scientists have proven that we, through contact with the Earth, harmful electromagnetic radiation can be removed from our bodies. I would not be surprised if the position of sujood, already proven to be a position of extremely high relaxation due to blood re-circulation, has this additional benefit. These points 7 positions of the body....these times of day for prayer.....these 34 times that we place our head down on the earth........are clearly beneficial! Carpet on the other hand only increases dirt on my face.


There are countless more reasons.

I for one do not need these reasons, because of my own level of acceptance.

I choose to prostrate on the soil of Kerbala to remember our grandfather Hussain (as), son of Prophet Muhammed (saw), because this rememberance brings physical, spiritual, mental, psychological and scientific rememberance of Tawheed! Oneness of God.

Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì does not need our worship, we need to worship him and it is WE that benefit, but 'we perceive not'. Why argue with this practice? One day you will be surrounded by Earth not carpet! Hehe (:

Salaams and duas

Your brother ;)

Tahsin




idolatry

#19 Siddiqah

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 05:57 AM

^ Well said. :lol: And you are exactly right about the electric currants.

#20 macisaac

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 06:20 AM

It's better not to engage in speculations as to the reasons for the laws as that leads to invalid conclusions and even qiyas. Instead, go with what the hadiths actually state as to the reasons:

ÞÇá åÔÇã Èä ÇáÍßã(2) áÇÈí ÚÈÏÇááå Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã: " ÃÎÈÑäí ÚãÇ íÌæÒ ÇáÓÌæÏ Úáíå æÚãÇ áÇ íÌæÒ¿ ÞÇá: ÇáÓÌæÏ áÇ íÌæÒ ÅáÇ Úáì ÇáÇÑÖ Ãæ Úáì ãÇ ÃäÈÊÊ ÇáÇÑÖ ÅáÇ ãÇ Ãßá Ãæ áÈÓ ÝÞÇá áå: ÌÚáÊ ÝÏÇß ãÇ ÇáÚáÉ Ýí Ðáß¿ ÞÇá: áÇä ÇáÓÌæÏ ÎÖæÚ ááå ÚÒæÌá ÝáÇ íäÈÛí Ãä íßæä Úáì ãÇ íÄßá Ãæ íáÈÓ áÇä ÃÈäÇÁ ÇáÏäíÇ ÚÈíÏ ãÇ íÃßáæä æíáÈÓæä¡ æÇáÓÇÌÏ Ýí ÓÌæÏå Ýí ÚÈÇÏÉ Çááå ÚÒæÌá ÝáÇ íäÈÛí Ãä íÖÚ ÌÈåÊå Ýí ÓÌæÏå Úáì ãÚÈæÏ ÃÈäÇÁ ÇáÏäíÇ ÇáÐíä ÇÛÊÑæÇ ÈÛÑæÑåÇ¡ æÇáÓÌæÏ Úáì ÇáÇÑÖ ÃÝÖá áÇäå ÃÈáÛ Ýí ÇáÊæÇÖÚ æÇáÎÖæÚ ááå ÚÒæÌá "


Hisham b. al-Hakam said to Abu `Abdillah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã : Inform me of what it is permitted to do sujud upon and what is not permitted. He said: Sujud is not allowed except for upon the earth or what the earth grows except that which is eaten or worn. So he said to him: May I be your sacrifice, what is the reason for that? He said: It is because sujud is submission to Allah, `azza wa jalla, so it is not appropriate that it be upon what it eaten and worn. For the sons of the dunya are worshipers of what they wear and eat. And the prostrator in his sujud is in the worship of Allah, `azza wa jalla, so it is not appropriate that he place his forehead in his sujud upon that which is worshiped by the sons of the dunya, having been deceived by its deception. And sujud upon the earth is better for it is more (conducive) to attaining humility and submission to Allah, `azza wa jalla.
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#21 Nader Zaveri

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 06:39 AM

(salam)
(bismillah)

It's better not to engage in speculations as to the reasons for the laws as that leads to invalid conclusions and even qiyas. Instead, go with what the hadiths actually state as to the reasons:

Agreed. No need to make up your own reason when a hadeeth already states a reason for a particular act of worship. Good hadeeth by the way, I think this explanation is much better than what any normal man can come up with.

(salam)

Edited by Nader Zaveri, 18 August 2010 - 06:40 AM.

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#22 Socrates

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 06:49 AM

(salam)
(bismillah)

Agreed. No need to make up your own reason when a hadeeth already states a reason for a particular act of worship. Good hadeeth by the way, I think this explanation is much better than what any normal man can come up with.

(salam)

In fact, I would go further: what right does anyone have to give a reasoning apart from he who has been appointed by Allah?

As they say: Kalaamul Imam, Imamul Kalaam. :D
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#23 weetec

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Posted 20 November 2010 - 06:59 PM

Assalamoalaikum,
i am a muslim. today i met a muslim in our local islamic book store asking for a shia stone to pray on. the person on the counter had no idea of where to obtain this from. i faintly heard his request and asked if i could help. he told me he wanted to learn how to pray. i asked him if he was new to islam and he replied his father in iran has recommended him to pray for his own benefit. he has not lived nor seen his father for over 10 years and keeps in contact with him via telephone.

i purchased him a simple book on how to pray salaat and gave it him as a gift. we went to our local mosque where i showed him how to perform ablution. we then prayed magrib salaat. i requested he copy my actions. my way for praying my salaat is to fold my arms when standing up. after we completed the first 3 rakaats in jamaat i told him i would be praying 2 sunnat and he would be welcome to follow me. he did so. then i noticed he had his hands by his side throught the prayer as he followed me.

i thought this brother was new to islam and after salaat i asked him if he practised prayer before, he replied only as a child and vaguely remembers how to. we talked about islam a bit then i asked him about his mother. he replied he came to england with his mother 10 years ago where she converted her faith from islam to behova. i think this is an indian faith. after learning all of this from this brother my concern was not what he prayed on, rather helping him practise his faith around such circumstances as mentioned. i told him his mother was dearest to him 3 times over then his father. he was surprised to learn this considering his mother was practising a different faith.

wether he prayed on a carpet, stone or even a temporary cloth,,,,,each to there own, but to me this creation was my brother in humanity and my brother in islam. what an experience i must add meeting some one in such circumstances. i ask myself had he not gained this stone would he of prayed that day?

reading the responses left by other fellow beleivers in these posts i personally can only think where the beloved prophet PBUH prayed in times of various floor coverings and had his forehead in contact with direct earth at other times....., for me it inform us muslims that if we have to pray on the earth which we stand upon, we should not stop from our prayer in terms of do not class it as an excuse not to pray...this brother i met today...had he prayed on a stone, silk, carpet, sand... i would not have changed my concept of him. all i can testify is that this brother/human prayed to Allah with me......and Allah knows what is in our hearts and Allah knows best...Peace. Naz Majid



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