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Good Jinns, Bad Jinns


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#26 Bismillahi

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Posted 10 February 2005 - 10:10 PM

^ Not always :squeez:

#27 Guest_Mehdi_Husain_Lover_*

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Posted 11 February 2005 - 03:33 AM

Like what? Jinn are physical beings



Jinns can become physical beings.

#28 The_Way

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Posted 11 February 2005 - 04:09 AM

Jinns can become physical beings.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They do so by taking possesion of existing physical beings, but cannot encarnate themselves per se. They can be inside people for a very long time, influencing the way they act.

I don't think that there are good Jinns, and truly believe, from experience, that they are demonic in nature.

How many stories have you heard of Jinns HELPING people? Without asking anything back in return?

#29 Dragonlady

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Posted 11 February 2005 - 04:27 AM

According to these muslim websites...


Jinns are evil, descendants of Satan, sent to be the companions of unbelievers, made of fire etc
http://www.submissio...outh/Jinns.html



JINN tend to be ignorant, untruthful, oppressive and treacherous, made of smoke, JINNS may take the form of a live picture, jinns are devils etc
http://islamicweb.co...s/creed/jin.htm Essay

smokless or essential fire, rules of conduct, choice to be good or bad, jinns can come to believe, jinn rebelled
From the Quran, same website


Looks like they are many things

#30 Guest_Mehdi_Husain_Lover_*

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Posted 11 February 2005 - 06:16 AM

How many stories have you heard of Jinns HELPING people? Without asking anything back in return?



Well, i am somewhat sure that they protect people from the bad jinns.

One example of a bad jinn is a black dog... its totally jinn.

Therefore in Islam.. its better if you don't disturb or harm the animal since the jinn will curse you.

#31 The_Way

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Posted 11 February 2005 - 07:32 AM

Well, i am somewhat sure that they protect people from the bad jinns.

One example of a bad jinn is a black dog... its totally jinn.

Therefore in Islam.. its better if you don't disturb or harm the animal since the jinn will curse you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


hmmm... Again, I have to disagree. I believe that living in the right spirit will protect you from any external influence (Jinns, demons or whatever people choose to call them). With the right authority, Jinns are powerless against you, and know their place in the scheme of things. I'm saying these things from personal experience.

As for Black dogs being Jinns, I find this difficult to accept. I have 2 black dogs, and they are the most loving and loyal animals I can imagine. They are protective over children, and always behave in a very good manner.

The Nature of Jinns means that they can be envoked, called upon, etc... and grant the requestor a "favour". This favour must be paid back, and it usually leads to some sort of blood shed (however minor, e.g a small cut...) as the blood has the lifeforce (so to speak). A truly benevolant being, such as an Angel, will guide, help, etc with NO repayment required, as the gift of celestial aid is freely given.

Thinking that there are good Jinns is a dangerous thing, as people can be lead to rely on entities which mean them nothing but harm, for their own selfish reasons.

#32 Guest_Mehdi_Husain_Lover_*

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Posted 11 February 2005 - 07:43 AM

hmmm... Again, I have to disagree. I believe that living in the right spirit will protect you from any external influence (Jinns, demons or whatever people choose to call them). With the right authority, Jinns are powerless against you, and know their place in the scheme of things. I'm saying these things from personal experience.



Jinns will not harm you if you are a believer that's for sure and that you are a good believer in God. However, Jinns too have their freedom. Also bone is their food, therefore we were told not to chew on the bone because it is their food

As for Black dogs being Jinns, I find this difficult to accept. I have 2 black dogs, and they are the most loving and loyal animals I can imagine. They are protective over children, and always behave in a very good manner.



like i said, there are good jinns my friend.

The Nature of Jinns means that they can be envoked, called upon, etc... and grant the requestor a "favour". This favour must be paid back, and it usually leads to some sort of blood shed (however minor, e.g a small cut...) as the blood has the lifeforce (so to speak). A truly benevolant being, such as an Angel, will guide, help, etc with NO repayment required, as the gift of celestial aid is freely given.



Yes you are true in saying angels will protect you from bad jinns. I am in total agreement with that.

#33 The_Way

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Posted 11 February 2005 - 08:18 AM

Jinns will not harm you if you are a believer that's for sure and that you are a good believer in God. However, Jinns too have their freedom. Also bone is their food, therefore we were told not to chew on the bone because it is their food

like i said, there are good jinns my friend.
Yes you are true in saying angels will protect you from bad jinns. I am in total agreement with that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

like i said, there are good jinns my friend.
yes, but you said that black dogs were an example of bad Jinns. This implies that the Dog itself is a Jinn, purely because of it's colour. I think that there is some confusion as to the "status" or definition of what we are both referring to as Jinns.

From my part, ANY supernatural help that doesn't come from God, or any of His delegated Authorities (Angels) isn't to be tampered with, or relied upon. In the event of a Jinn attack, I wouldn't recommend you try and protect yourself with "good" Jinns, as this is a deception.

From a Christian standpoint, I have always seen Jinns scatter, and I mean SCATTER when commanded to in the name of Christ. This oviously has to be instructed by someone who also lives the life, and not just repeating words. (Refer to the son's of Skeva story in the Bible for examples where people used the name of Christ, and weren't living the life). When the unsaved sons of Skeva tried to cast a devil out of a demon possessed man, the demons turned around and said, “Jesus we know, and Paul we know, but who are you?”

Do you know of any stories or incident where "good" Jinns were used to deliver people from bad Jinns?

#34 kadhim

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Posted 11 February 2005 - 09:19 AM

They do so by taking possesion of existing physical beings, but cannot encarnate themselves per se.  They can be inside people for a very long time, influencing the way they act.

I don't think that there are good Jinns, and truly believe, from experience, that they are demonic in nature.


This is what I was talking about about confusing demons and jinn, and taking your concetions of demons and placing them on jinn. Jinn are a type of living being, like ourselves, but somehow of a different form.

How many stories have you heard of Jinns HELPING people?  Without asking anything back in return?


The qu'ran mentions certain amongst the jinn who heard of the qu'ran and came secretly to listen when it was recited, later becoming Muslim and spreading Islam among the jinns. There are records in ahadith literature of jinn helping Muhammad (saw) and his family.

Edited by kadhim, 11 February 2005 - 09:20 AM.


#35 kadhim

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Posted 11 February 2005 - 09:31 AM

hmmm... Again, I have to disagree.  I believe that living in the right spirit will protect you from any external influence (Jinns, demons or whatever people choose to call them).  With the right authority, Jinns are powerless against you, and know their place in the scheme of things.  I'm saying these things from personal experience.

As for Black dogs being Jinns, I find this difficult to accept.  I have 2 black dogs, and they are the most loving and loyal animals I can imagine.  They are protective over children, and always behave in a very good manner.

The Nature of Jinns means that they can be envoked, called upon, etc... and grant the requestor a "favour".  This favour must be paid back, and it usually leads to some sort of blood shed (however minor, e.g a small cut...) as the blood has the lifeforce (so to speak).  A truly benevolant being, such as an Angel, will guide, help, etc with NO repayment required, as the gift of celestial aid is freely given.

Thinking that there are good Jinns is a dangerous thing, as people can be lead to rely on entities which mean them nothing but harm, for their own selfish reasons.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Again, you're taking all the baggage you attach to the concept of demon and attaching it to jinns. I repeat, and again, I'm not trying to sound angry, it's just to try to get you to learn about jinns without preconceptions. They're two different concepts. It is however possible that a lot of folklore we carry about the "supernatural" comes from human interaction with jinns, particularly the "bad" ones, and the confusion and fear that comes from people without much knowledge encountering such strange creatures.

#36 kadhim

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Posted 11 February 2005 - 09:44 AM

According to these muslim websites...
Jinns are evil, descendants of Satan, sent to be the companions of unbelievers, made of fire etc
http://www.submissio...outh/Jinns.html


:lol: Sorry, you're to be forgiven, as an outsider, from quoting from the Submitters. These guys are a distant fringe group, and not to be considered a reliable reflection of Muslim opinion. Other than the status of this group, their translation and explanation on that site are DEAD WRONG. For example:

[18:50] We said to the angels, "Fall prostrate before Adam." They fell prostrate, except Satan. He became a jinn, for he disobeyed the order of His Lord.

This is wrong. In the Arabic, it says "fasajadooo il-laaa ib-leesa kaana minal jin-ni.." Fasajadooo il-laa Ibleesa means "they prostrated, made sajood, except Iblees. Kaana minal jinni means "was from the jinn." The jinn existed before Iblees, and he was one of them, not the other way around.

#37 The_Way

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Posted 11 February 2005 - 10:08 AM

Again, you're taking all the baggage you attach to the concept of demon and attaching it to jinns.  I repeat, and again, I'm not trying to sound angry, it's just to try to get you to learn about jinns without preconceptions.  They're two different concepts.  It is however possible that a lot of folklore we carry about the "supernatural" comes from human interaction with jinns, particularly the "bad" ones,  and the confusion and fear that comes from people without much knowledge encountering such strange creatures.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have to say that when it comes to this matter, I am more knowledgable than most, and not just theoretically.

Are there any examples of good Jinns helping people out?

#38 kadhim

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Posted 11 February 2005 - 10:10 AM

I have to say that when it comes to this matter, I am more knowledgable than most, and not just theoretically.


How are you more knowledgeable about JINNS? You have just encountered the concept recently. Have you been listening to me? This is my whole point; you're assuming jinns are identical to your concept of demons. They're not. Different thing.

Are there any examples of good Jinns helping people out?


Such things are mentioned in ahadith literature. You'd have to consult a Scholar for the details.

Edited by kadhim, 11 February 2005 - 10:12 AM.


#39 The_Way

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Posted 11 February 2005 - 10:33 AM

How are you more knowledgeable about JINNS?  You have just encountered the concept recently.  Have you been listening to me?  This is my whole point; you're assuming jinns are identical to your concept of demons.  They're not.  Different thing.
Such things are mentioned in ahadith literature.  You'd have to consult a Scholar for the details.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Kadhim, trust you to start a bad vibe in an otherwise peaceful thread. What makes you think I have just encountered the concept recently? I associate with many Muslim colleagues, and have had exposure and dealings with Jinns on a very physical level. Have you? If not, then don't argue about it.

Jinns, Demons, elemental spirits, call them what you like, or consider them whatever you want, are not good. Why would you want to rely on a Jinn anyway? Isn't it God's duty to protect you?

Doesn't the Koran say;
" And there were persons among mankind who took shelter with persons among the jinn, but they [only] increased them in rahaq" (Qur'an 72:6)

Notice it doesn't make a difference between good or bad Jinns!

Edited by The_Way, 11 February 2005 - 10:53 AM.


#40 kadhim

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Posted 11 February 2005 - 10:57 AM

Kadhim, trust you to start a bad vibe in an otherwise peaceful thread.  What makes you think I have just encountered the concept recently?  I associate with many Muslim colleagues, and have had exposure and dealings with Jinns on a very physical level.  Have you?  If not, then don't argue about it.


I've stated twice quite clearly that my intentions are not to start an argument but to point out that you're examining the concept of jinns in a prejudiced manner by identifying jinns with demons and ignoring anything that disagrees with these preconceptions.
You started this thread looking to understand what jinns are. Don't get flippy with me if you don't like the answers we're giving you. The Islamic perspective is that jinns are free to choose, like humans, good or evil. Some choose good, some choose evil.

Jinns, Demons, elemental spirits, call them what you like,


Jinn (does not equal) your conception of demons. Don't know how much simpler I can make it. Again, my intention here was to get you to step back and examine the concept of jinns unblocked and unfiltered by your preceonceptions of demons. I'm sorry you find my attempts to be helpful so offensive.

or consider them whatever you want, are not good. 


You're like the misanthropist who hates all people because of problems he's had with a few of them. Why do you insist on blind prejudice against an entire race of beings based on your limited understanding? You do remember what we call that when you hate an entire race without justification?

Why would you want to rely on a Jinn anyway?  Isn't it God's duty to protect you?


Why would you depend on a fireman when your house is burning? Can't God magically put out the flames? When someone is trying to break into your home, do you expect God to shoot a thunderbolt, or do you dial 911? When you are hungry, do you sit and expect God to remove your hunger, or do you go to the grocer? Our Creator gives out His help and sustenance, but chooses to give it out through intermediary channels, through cause and effect. He feeds us, clothes us, helps us, but uses people to do so. Jinns as well are one of the tools He uses. Unfortunately, some jinn, like some humans, rebel against the system, and try to disrupt these chains of help and sustenance.

And by the way, it's not God's "duty" to do anything; He is the ultimate free agent. Thankfully, He freely chooses to help us.

Doesn't the Koran say;
" And there were persons among mankind who took shelter with persons among the jinn, but they [only] increased them in rahaq" (Qur'an 72:6)

Notice it doesn't make a difference between good or bad Jinns!


Actually, if you read 4 verses later, it says:
"There are some among us who are righteous, and some the contrary. We follow divergent paths." 72:10.

Four after that:
"And that some of us are those who submit, and some of us are deviators."
72:14.

Edited by kadhim, 11 February 2005 - 11:05 AM.


#41 The_Way

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Posted 11 February 2005 - 02:00 PM

I've stated twice quite clearly that my intentions are not to start an argument but to point out that you're examining the concept of jinns in a prejudiced manner by identifying jinns with demons and ignoring anything that disagrees with these preconceptions.
You started this thread looking to understand what jinns are.  Don't get flippy with me if you don't like the answers we're giving you.  The Islamic perspective is that jinns are free to choose, like humans, good or evil.  Some choose good, some choose evil.
Jinn (does not equal) your conception of demons.  Don't know how much simpler I can make it.  Again, my intention here was to get you to step back and examine the concept of jinns unblocked and unfiltered by your preceonceptions of demons.  I'm sorry you find my attempts to be helpful so offensive.
You're like the misanthropist who hates all people because of problems he's had with a few of them.  Why do you insist on blind prejudice against an entire race of beings based on your limited understanding?  You do remember what we call that when you hate an entire race without justification?
Why would you depend on a fireman when your house is burning?  Can't God magically put out the flames?  When someone is trying to break into your home, do you expect God to shoot a thunderbolt, or do you dial 911?  When you are hungry, do you sit and expect God to remove your hunger, or do you go to the grocer?  Our Creator gives out His help and sustenance, but chooses to give it out through intermediary channels, through cause and effect.  He feeds us, clothes us, helps us, but uses people to do so.  Jinns as well are one of the tools He uses.  Unfortunately, some jinn, like some humans, rebel against the system, and try to disrupt these chains of help and sustenance.

And by the way, it's not God's "duty" to do anything; He is the ultimate free agent.  Thankfully, He freely chooses to help us.
Actually, if you read 4 verses later, it says:
"There are some among us who are righteous, and some the contrary.  We follow divergent paths."  72:10. 

Four after that:
"And that some of us are those who submit, and some of us are deviators."
72:14.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


All I'll say is that I hope you never get "visited" by a "good" Jinn.

#42 Pocahonky

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Posted 11 February 2005 - 06:23 PM

Hode up here.

:wacko:

Islam has good jinn and bad jinn. Christianity has demons and gaurdian angels.

Both are a seperate race from humanity, created by God. Both are what they are for having made a choice between good and evil. The one does the will of God, the other makes mischief.

As a bystander in this debate, I here submit that you are both talking about the very same concept, using different names, but each is submitting as truth certain elements of lore. Islam calls them by the same name, differentiating with an adjective. Christianity gives them completely different names.

And I don't believe that about black dogs at all. I know a fuzzy black dog who wouldn't hurt a flea. A statement like that is lore, a superstition.

#43 kadhim

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Posted 11 February 2005 - 06:24 PM

All I'll say is that I hope you never get "visited" by a "good" Jinn.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


First you disrespect my religion by refusing to listen to what it says about jinns, insisting on projecting your ideas of "demons" onto them. Then you slander ignorantly an entire race of God's creatures. Then you insult me by saying you hoping something good is kept from me. I think you've said enough.

#44 vze4fd2s

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Posted 11 February 2005 - 06:28 PM

(bismillah) (salam)

Calm down brother :(

If he refuses to listen to your answers then ignore him.

Remember, Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) had to go through a lot of discrimination and hate also.

Edited by vze4fd2s, 11 February 2005 - 06:29 PM.


#45 Pocahonky

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Posted 11 February 2005 - 06:32 PM

"First you disrespect my religion by refusing to listen to what it says about jinns, insisting on projecting your ideas of "demons" onto them. Then you slander ignorantly an entire race of God's creatures. Then you insult me by saying you hoping something good is kept from me. I think you've said enough."

Ah - the wonders of communication :squeez:

As I pointed out, you are talking about the same thing but miscommunicating because of a couple of nouns.

And Kadhim, I believe what Way meant was a bit of sarcasm, by saying he/she hopes you are not visited by a "good" jinn, because he/she already said, there weren't any good jinn.

There are however, gaurdian angels. Personally, I hope you have many, very strong, who "lift you up" so that you don't ever even stub your toe on the coffee table.

#46 kadhim

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Posted 11 February 2005 - 06:43 PM

"First you disrespect my religion by refusing to listen to what it says about jinns, insisting on projecting your ideas of "demons" onto them. Then you slander ignorantly an entire race of God's creatures. Then you insult me by saying you hoping something good is kept from me. I think you've said enough."

Ah - the wonders of communication  :squeez:

As I pointed out, you are talking about the same thing but miscommunicating because of a couple of nouns.


Well, no, my point is that we're not talking about the same thing at all.
Jinns are not demons.

And Kadhim, I believe what Way meant was a bit of sarcasm, by saying he/she hopes you are not visited by a "good" jinn, because he/she already said, there weren't any good jinn.


Well, I don't need you to tell me that. I don't think he's ever said anything here that was free from either sarcasm, cynicism, hatred, or bigotry, if not all four at once.

#47 kadhim

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Posted 11 February 2005 - 06:47 PM

Hode up here.

:wacko:

Islam has good jinn and bad jinn. Christianity has demons and gaurdian angels.



Well, no. Islamically, guardian angels, malaikah, are one thing, while jinns are altogether something different. Jinns are not "fallen angels."

#48 vze4fd2s

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Posted 11 February 2005 - 06:50 PM

(bismillah) (salam)

Jinns would be a different species, made from fire as humans are made from mud or clay.

#49 baqar

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Posted 11 February 2005 - 06:57 PM

Jinns would be a different species, made from fire

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Fire means, I think, something similar to electromagnetic charge.

#50 The_Way

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Posted 11 February 2005 - 07:13 PM

First you disrespect my religion by refusing to listen to what it says about jinns, insisting on projecting your ideas of "demons" onto them.  Then you slander ignorantly an entire race of God's creatures.  Then you insult me by saying you hoping something good is kept from me.  I think you've said enough.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


tsk tsk.. touchy touchy. And it seems you can dish out the sarcasm, but hyper-sensitive to recieve it.

Please tell me ANY stories of good Jinns that you have heard or read about.



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