Ali

Debate ready in MP3 and Video Online

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Inshallah every one is in the best of health and iman, The debate the second part was awesomeee, by the grace of the almighty was able to attend, and finnaly got to meeet brother hasnain it was so cool, any ways, for those of you who haven't been there, feel sorry for you, cuz it was just awesome and hot, even though brother hasnain destroyed those 2 atheist, so if you haven't been there, you should get the dvd of vhs, its worth it

and I think they did have cross examination, it was supposed to be 10 minutes but they cut it down to 7 minutes, i think if i am not mistaken.

fi amanillah

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God is man :) We are indeed gods, or we should try to be as godly as possible by achieving our full potential.

Those pagan gods were actually 'Jinns' = hidden

What are those jinns? Are they aliens from outer space? Do they live in the underworld? Do they live amongst us?

How many dimensions are there? Do they live amongst us in another Dimension which we can't comprehend?

Regarding Evolution:-

As far as i know, now the theory is that some 'external' entity is needed for a body to evolve. Either it is Radiation, or SOMETHING else.

They say that Angels created Adam and other Pre-Adam-esque Men (Neanderthals etc). This can be negated by another question, how were Angels created?

Another theory is that Humans were created to be vegetarians (like other animals), but Jinns(hidden-Aliens) modified the DNA of Humans and other animals via experiments and/or doing sex with them.

Or it could be that Allah created Adam(as) through Evolution ( radiation,etc) over a period of time.

Nobody is sure about his/her theories..

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This understandably is the product of his Christian upbringing but unfortunately he can't seem to grasp the Muslim concept of God, which is not as a person but a Higher Power.  Barker thinks that if he refutes religion then it will automatically disprove the existence of a Creator, wheras the existence of the universe's Creator rests solely on reason, not religion.

Two thumbs up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Interesting, very interesting even, as an atheist i find this position indeed muth more plausable then "god as a person". And it is sientificly muth harder to contradict.

Edited by Demosthenes2

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I have a question for the atheists....

I'm a muslim, and I believe in One God, and the basic fundamentals of Islam. I'm a practicing shia and i love my religion.

my question to the atheists (and please dont take this the wrong way...)...

why do you not believe there is a god? where do you think everything came from? do you truly believe in the big bang theory, or another theory? does there not have to be someone, or some supreme power, to control the way the universe is? and finally, what happens, according to you, after you/we die? where do we go?

please, i'm curious as to what runs through your minds, not to put u down or anything of that sort, just as one asking to another...

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has anyone got links to the debate as the ones in the beginning of this posting dont work. i really want to hear the debate and would appreciate some assistance.

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Claim: Design can arise without a designer
from Barker

Just a while ago i read the Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq (as) the tradition of Myrobalan Fruit. And its was very interesting debate. Just that claim remind me how that cant be possible that Design can arise without a designer.

I replied (Al-Sadiq). 'Will you tell me why this halila (Myrobalan Fruit) which you say to have created itself, is so insignificant and powerless a thing that it can not save itself from being plucked, squeezed and devoured?"

"Because it has only the power of creating itself" he said (atheist).

(Al-Sadiq) says "If you are inclined to persist in your obstinacy, do so; but at least assure me as to when this halila created itself-whether it did it before it came into existence, or afterwards? If you say afterwards, your assertion is absurd. Because it is impossible for a thing to create its own self when it was already created. The purpose of your assertion would be that the halila made itself twice. It would mean that its first endeavours consisted in creating itself, and when it was quite ready and created, it created itself again. This is the most absurd and impossible theory-the acquisition of what is already acquired (tahsil-e-hasil). If you say that it created itself before it came into existence, it is really stupid. Because it was absolutely nothing before it came into existence. How is it possible for a non-existing thing to create another thing? You consider my belief in an existing thing that creates another non-existing thing as absurd. But you do not consider your own, as to the non-existing thing having the power to create an already existing thing, as absurd and stupid. Be yourself the judge, and tell me whose theory is absurd and irrational".

Read more about it http://www.al-islam.org/short/halila/

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none of the video/mp3 links are working. Can anyone please upload a version?

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So what is your opinion on the fact that the Qur'aan has answered so many questions that Science only answered recently?

I read through portions of that material. I read enough to find myself singularly unconvinced of several things:

One: I am not convinced that some of those things are actual references to what are supposedly the modern scientific discoveries which they supposedly refer to

Example: The shapes of the earth and the moon were known by the Greeks and others LONG AGO and they used purely mathematical methods. That is a fact as historical as any other. Also, there is nothing about the reference in the Qur'an used to show evidence that it was inspired which can be shown to be saying the same thing except by a VERY generous stretch of the imagination. Really, I'd be more impressed if he just came out and said "The earth and moon are spheres, and the light of the moon is reflected from the sun". That would be MUCH more covincing, if only convincing that the scriptures meant to say those things.

Two: Even if all of these instances of "proof" that the Qur'an "knew things" before science did, and long ago, and so forth, NONE of these things, I mean NONE of them justify a leap in thought which say that THEREFORE I should believe that this book was INSPIRED DIRECTLY BY GOD so that it is a brand name book by GOD its Author. NONE of these things can justify that assumption. The ONLY way that could be done would be to show how it would be INCOMPREHENSIBLE for this book NOT to have been written by God. That is the only way I could be convinced. None of these types of "evidences" give the slightest feeling that is so.

But if I am then asked to say what I do make of those interesting statements in the Qur'an, I'd say that I've seen many things in this world far stranger and far less explicable by normal means. At the same time, I respect people's right to find this book to be, FOR THEM, God's book. I wouldn't ever want them to find it to be God's book FOR ME. My feeling, and it would seem the brunt of history, indicates that when people really believe that God is behind something they often do not like it that others fail to share that belief. This is true regardless of the belief's actual content in many cases, but it is especially true when God is involved. My position is that no matter how strange, unusual, interesting, amazing, inexplicable (or seemingly so) anything ever is, it is not any evidence of God's involvement at all. It is just evidence that here I see something I don't understand because it is: strange, unusual, amazing, inexplicable (seemingly), and often even interesting on top of all that, and perhaps worthy of investigating to find out how it could be what it is, and perhaps not. But there is no, NO, reason, EVER for me to believe that any of these types of things have a "divine quality" to them, and certainly not merely because others attest that they do. It could never be. Further, I don't think that God would even work that way to begin with. God's a bit more subtle than that, a bit more creative, and a bit more clever, and a lot more convincing. All due respect.

Edited by Parsaman
Rohani likes this

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I have a question for the atheists....

I'm a muslim, and I believe in One God, and the basic fundamentals of Islam. I'm a practicing shia and i love my religion.

my question to the atheists (and please dont take this the wrong way...)...

why do you not believe there is a god? where do you think everything came from? do you truly believe in the big bang theory, or another theory? does there not have to be someone, or some supreme power, to control the way the universe is? and finally, what happens, according to you, after you/we die? where do we go?

please, i'm curious as to what runs through your minds, not to put u down or anything of that sort, just as one asking to another...

I am not an atheist, but I used to hold that position because I was not satisfied by any religion's explanation about what they mean by "God", and I was always especially turned off by the irrationality of behavior which always seemed rolled up with having a belief in God, ranging from totemistic fetishes with objects supposedly associated with God in some way, all the way to claiming authority to tell me what reality is because they, the believer, have special knowledge that I don't have. These things are utter turn offs to any sensible and thinking person and if those behaviors are what "God" is about, I'd rather have nothing to do with "God". Later I had experiences OF MY OWN which told me that I could understand what I MYSELF could possibly by a word like God, and it then even still took many years for this meaning to evolve into the mature form it is in today. I didn't need anyone else's help in order to make my discoveries about "God" (as in not the kind of "help" that involves being converted into a religion or idea), and as far as I can tell people have still failed to grasp that there is a difference between having a mental concept of "God" that one "believes in" and really KNOWING God. There is also a sort of "magic/fetishistic" issue in thinking that I need some particular book or belief-system-story-myth-parable structure in order to sustain a sensible and coherent understanding of "God" and without which I would not have a relationship with God that would be acceptable for my soul's health. If others want to get into something like that, that is FINE with me, as long as I don't have to join them if I don't want to, and as long as I am not murdered as if by beasts for it. This is the general atmosphere of mind that I think probably floats around the atheistic layer of the noosphere, so to speak. I just can't gather how someone thinks that their beliefs are something I ALSO need to have. Worse, I can't see how they can be so inane as to assume that because I don't have THEIR take on God that I am somehow destined to be less moral, less good, less worthy of God's grace and friendship. It is disgusting. Further... to assume that if I didn't have such a belief system that then I would lose any moral capacity is really to confess that without their belief system in place, they believe THEY would not have such a capacity. When they start killing others because of this ignorance, it starts to look like they might be right about that at least.

What really gets my ire up now, even though now I am not an atheist, is that most people who are "dead set" into their cozy little belief-structure think that they have either a duty or else the right to indulge in "spilling this over" onto others in order to "get them into" the same predicament, er I mean into heaven...

That somehow doesn't seem like the way it works from what I've seen in the universe so far. God just doesn't work that way.

On the other hand, these people never want to hear a single damned thing about what I MYSELF believe or think, and even if they pretend to, it is just to get on over into what they are going to "preach unto me". That's just droll..

God is anything but droll.

Edited by Parsaman

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Holy Quran:

"when truth is confronted with false-hood, falsehood perishes , for by its nature, it is bound to perish"

We should have many open minded debates with atheists.

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5 minutes ago, freekundli said:

Links are not working. Keep Buffering..

You can find it on YouTube.

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21 minutes ago, magma said:

You can find it on YouTube.

Okies, Thanks.

If you have youtube link then please share with me.

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On 9/2/2016 at 1:23 AM, freekundli said:

If you have youtube link then please share with me.

The debate was made into three videos:

Theist Vs Atheist Debate: "Does God Not Exist?" (Part 1/3)

Theist Vs Atheist Debate: "Does God Not Exist?" (Part 2/3)

Theist Vs Atheist Debate: "Does God Not Exist?" (Part 3/3)

 

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