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List of 10 Ashra Mubashra - different


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#76 Baatil Ka Kaatil

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Posted 27 August 2004 - 04:53 AM

So the conflict between Muawiyah (la) and Ali (as) was nothing more than a friendly debate in which 1,000's managed to lose their lives including Sahaba such as Ammar Ibn Yaasir?

That certainly makes sense.

Edited by Baatil Ka Kaatil, 27 August 2004 - 04:53 AM.


#77 Socrates

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Posted 27 August 2004 - 05:32 AM

So the conflict between Muawiyah (la) and Ali (as) was nothing more than a friendly debate in which 1,000's managed to lose their lives including Sahaba such as Ammar Ibn Yaasir?

That certainly makes sense.

It was an error of ijtihaad ( ! )


:!!!:

#78 Baatil Ka Kaatil

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Posted 27 August 2004 - 05:42 AM

So the conflict between Muawiyah (la) and Ali (as) was nothing more than a friendly debate in which 1,000's managed to lose their lives including Sahaba such as Ammar Ibn Yaasir?

That certainly makes sense.

It was an error of ijtihaad ( ! )


:!!!:

Sabars answer:

Correction...

Hazrat muawiyah (ra) mistuk ali (ra) for an enemy of islam. it was a simple and honest mistake.


:sick:

#79 inuit

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Posted 28 August 2004 - 12:20 PM

So the conflict between Muawiyah (la) and Ali (as) was nothing more than a friendly debate in which 1,000's managed to lose their lives including Sahaba such as Ammar Ibn Yaasir?

That certainly makes sense.

It was an error of ijtihaad ( ! )


:!!!:

Sabars answer:

Correction...

Hazrat muawiyah (ra) mistuk ali (ra) for an enemy of islam. it was a simple and honest mistake.


:sick:

Sunnis even cant think about it that muawiyah can be in the list of Ashra Mubashra, right now they are in trouble to fix the existing list of Ashra Mubashra.

for for Sunnies : So where are the answer to those question which we asked in this thread.

#80 sabar

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Posted 28 August 2004 - 10:42 PM

So the conflict between Muawiyah (la) and Ali (as) was nothing more than a friendly debate in which 1,000's managed to lose their lives including Sahaba such as Ammar Ibn Yaasir?

That certainly makes sense.

If it is war then what was purpose of ALi (ra) and Muawia (ra)

#81 sabar

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Posted 28 August 2004 - 10:45 PM

Sunnis even cant think about it that muawiyah can be in the list of Ashra Mubashra, right now they are in trouble to fix the existing list of Ashra Mubashra.

for for Sunnies : So where are the answer to those question which we asked in this thread.

We have not to fix the list...Th elist was made by Allah and told by Holy Prophet pbuh ....We not say that how Muawia (ra) is not in the list...If we say it then we also say that ALi (ra) may not be in list

#82 sabar

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Posted 28 August 2004 - 10:50 PM

Sabars answer:

Correction...

Hazrat muawiyah (ra) mistuk ali (ra) for an enemy of islam. it was a simple and honest mistake.


:sick:

As we concern Muwaia not said so

#83 Socrates

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Posted 29 August 2004 - 05:50 AM

So the conflict between Muawiyah (la) and Ali (as) was nothing more than a friendly debate in which 1,000's managed to lose their lives including Sahaba such as Ammar Ibn Yaasir?

That certainly makes sense.

If it is war then what was purpose of ALi (ra) and Muawia (ra)

The purpose was the HAQ (Ali (as)) defeat BAATIL (Muawiya (la))

#84 Socrates

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 09:53 AM

up

#85 inuit

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 11:42 AM

We not say that how Muawia  (ra) is not in the list...If we say it then we also say that ALi  (ra) may not be in list

So you confirm that there was sometime between Ali(AS) and Muawia.

#86 khanabbas

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 12:45 PM

what are the names who didn't complete ?

#87 inuit

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 01:08 PM

what are the names who didn't complete ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

with which reference you are talking about?

#88 Abdaal

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 02:47 PM

[quote name='Youth Of Ali' date='Aug 29 2004, 06:50 AM']
If it is war then what was purpose of ALi (ra) and Muawia (ra) [/quote]
The purpose was the HAQ (Ali (as)) defeat BAATIL (Muawiya (la))

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[/quote]
so why did Imam Hassan(as) allow him to become Calipah. Where were the Shias?

#89 syed_ali_naqvi

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Posted 06 October 2005 - 02:41 AM

I just read through most of the discussion. It is funny how the Urdu article by a sunni scholar attempts to make life simple. If we are to respect ALL the sahaba and ALL the wives, then what do we do about the people from this select group that are in contradiction of each other.

What are we to say when Abu Bakr (Siddiq) makes the Prophets (pbuh) daughter wait outside his court for hours on end. What do we say when a mob of the Sahaba burns down the same door where the Prophet (pbuh) sent his blessings every morning. What do we do when we see Imam Ali (as) being dragged around the streets to get a 'bayet' from him to validate the khilafat. And finally what do we say when we see a commander of the army of Yazid ( the son of the 'pious' Muawiyah) brutally cutting the throat of the grandson of the Prophet (pbuh).

This is the time when we have to use our own sense of judgment in the light of the Quran and the sunnah make some sensible decisions. Why follow a man who went around the streets of Mecca with a sword drawn to kill the Prophet (Umar) when I can follow the man who even at the age of ten was ready to support the cause of God. Why follow the woman who went to battle with the current Caliph against the will of the Prophet (pbuh). The Prophet (pbuh) had told his wives that one of them would be about to commit a sin and dogs at Kaif would bark at them. When the dogs at Kaif barked at Aisha Talha and Zubair (two of the said Ashra-e-Mubashara) lied to her and told her that they were at another location.

In the end it is important to understand that it is the people we follow that will decide our ultimate fate in the life hereafter. Id rather follow people who will not be turned away from the gates of heaven. Make your own choice!

#90 Khadem Haidar Al Karar

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Posted 07 October 2005 - 05:32 PM

(salam)

I have a question...

how can Ali and Talha be ''mubasharin bel jana'' together??

they went to war against each other... OMG :wacko:

#91 tahasyed

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Posted 07 October 2005 - 05:57 PM

so why did Imam Hassan(as) allow him to become Calipah. Where were the Shias?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very weak argument.
If imam Ali (as) let some of the Khawarij go, does that mean the Khawarij are good too then?

Also, adopting the same view as you, I ask where was Allah when the Jews were killing Yahya (as)?
Where were the companions, when the Prophet got injured at Uhud....

Remember, imam Hasan (as) was FORCED to hand over the khilafah to the son of Hind.
Remember that a huge number of the faithful shia were MARTYRED by the son of Hind.
Remember that it was the son of Hind who broke the promise that he'd transfer the khilafah back to Hasan (as). Since he broke his promise, why do you keep insisting on the legitimacy of his rule? It was based on lies, deceit, murder and all other un-Islamic values. And the legitimacy is gone, as he violated the very premise it was founded upon.


ws

#92 fzilla

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Posted 07 October 2005 - 06:30 PM

Very weak argument.
If imam Ali (as) let some of the Khawarij go, does that mean the Khawarij are good too then?

Also, adopting the same view as you, I ask where was Allah when the Jews were killing Yahya (as)?
Where were the companions, when the Prophet got injured at Uhud....

Remember, imam Hasan (as) was FORCED to hand over the khilafah to the son of Hind.
Remember that a huge number of the faithful shia were MARTYRED by the son of Hind.
Remember that it was the son of Hind who broke the promise that he'd transfer the khilafah back to Hasan (as). Since he broke his promise, why do you keep insisting on the legitimacy of his rule? It was based on lies, deceit, murder and all other un-Islamic values. And the legitimacy is gone, as he violated the very premise it was founded upon.
ws

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



what is the point of discussing this list? us sunnis will believe in this hadith because it has a list of ppl we love and respect. shias wont for thier own obvious reasons.

#93 tahasyed

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Posted 07 October 2005 - 06:53 PM

what is the point of discussing this list? us sunnis will believe in this hadith because it has a list of ppl we love and respect. shias wont for thier own obvious reasons.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

(salam)
You're right. Most people are not willing to change their views no matter what. In that sense, such discussions are indeed pointless.
But perhaps the point of this discussion was to show that many of the people in this 'ashra mubashara' list had ill feelings for each other and fought each other, which shows the incongruity of this hadith. Perhaps the point was to provoke people to think..

#94 inuit

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 09:37 PM

who decided the asra mubashara it was the prophet (pbuh) himself.


that is not correct as saad (ra) part of the ashra mubahshara chose imam ali (ra)


zubair and talha were ashra mubashara


bump for saeed jafar to comment for ashra mubashara under this thread.

#95 Panzerwaffe

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Posted 11 December 2006 - 03:38 PM

clarification
abdur rehman b auf was not the right hand man of muaiwyah it was abdur rehman b khalid he was later poisened by muaiwyah's christian doctor

#96 saeed jafar

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Posted 11 December 2006 - 04:24 PM

bump for saeed jafar to comment for ashra mubashara under this thread.


Narrated Saeed bin Zayd:

Abdur-Rahman bin Al-Akhnas said that when he was in the mosque, a man abused Ali . So Saeed bin Zayd got up and said: "I bear witness to the Apostle of Allah (SAWS) that I heard him say: "Ten persons will go to Paradise: "Abu Bakr will go to Paradise, Umar will go to Paradise, Uthman will go to Paradise, Ali will go to Paradise, Talha will go to Paradise: Zubair bin Al-Awwam will go to Paradise, Sa'd bin Abi Waqqas will go to Paradise and Abdur-Rahman bin Awf will go to Paradise. If I wish, I can mention the tenth." The People asked: "Who is he?" so he kept silence. They again asked: "Who is he?" He replied: "He is Saeed ibn Zayd." He then said: "The company of one man whose face has been covered with dust by the Apostle of Allah (SAWS) is better than the actions of one of you for a whole life time even if he is granted the life-span of Noah." (Abu Dawud)

here is one such hadith. im not aware of such contradictions. its sa'id or saeed bin zayd (ra) .

#97 inuit

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Posted 11 December 2006 - 06:09 PM

Narrated Saeed bin Zayd:

Abdur-Rahman bin Al-Akhnas said ....

here is one such hadith. im not aware of such contradictions. its sa'id or saeed bin zayd (ra) .


dont be so quick in replying, it will be hard on you.. you didnt even bother to read the first few posts of this thread.

read the post #9 - here is the link.

http://www.shiachat....howtopic=38934#

#98 saeed jafar

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Posted 11 December 2006 - 06:16 PM

dont be so quick in replying, it will be hard on you.. you didnt even bother to read the first few posts of this thread.

read the post #9 - here is the link.

http://www.shiachat....howtopic=38934#


ive checked it bro. ive failed to realise the point. the note at the end of the hadith is "Al-Tirmidhi commented that Abu-al-Aawar is Said ibn Zayd"

please explain your point bro?

#99 inuit

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Posted 11 December 2006 - 09:01 PM

ive checked it bro. ive failed to realise the point. the note at the end of the hadith is "Al-Tirmidhi commented that Abu-al-Aawar is Said ibn Zayd"

please explain your point bro?


I am posting the post # 9 with some additions

Abu Daoud in his book , narrates from "Saeed bin Zaid said: I bear witness, I heard the messenger of Allah (s) say: Ten are in Paradise: The prophet is in Paradise, Abu Bakr in Paradise, Talha in Paradise, Omar in Paradise, 'Uthman in Paradise, Saad bin Malik in Paradise, and AbdulRahman bin `Awf in Paradise. If you wish I could tell you the tenth? He said. They said: Who is he? He said: Saeed bin Zaid."

1. Abu Bakr in Paradise,
2. Talha in Paradise,
3. Omar in Paradise,
4. 'Uthman in Paradise,
5. Saad bin Malik in Paradise, and
6. AbdulRahman bin `Awf in Paradise.
7. Saeed bin Zaid."

2. al-Tirmithi in his book under #3747, narrates from "AbdulRahman bin `Awf said: The prophet (s) said: Abu Bakr in Paradise, Omar in Paradise, 'Uthman in Paradise, Ali in Paradise, Talha in Paradise, al- Zubair (bin al-'Awwam) in Paradise, AbdulRahman bin `Awf in Paradise, Saad (bin Abi Waqqass) in Paradise, Saeed (bin Zaid), and abu 'Ubaida bin al- Jarrah in Paradise." (Saad is not in Abu Daoud's book)

1. Abu Bakr in Paradise,
2. Omar in Paradise,
3. 'Uthman in Paradise,
4. Ali in Paradise,
5. Talha in Paradise,
6. al- Zubair (bin al-'Awwam) in Paradise,
7. AbdulRahman bin `Awf in Paradise,
8. Saad (bin Abi Waqqass) in Paradise,
9. Saeed (bin Zaid), and
10. abu 'Ubaida bin al- Jarrah in Paradise."

3. al-Tirmithi , under #3748, narration by "Saeed bin Zaid, that the prophet (s) said in a number of people, ten are in Paradise: Abu Bakr in Paradise, Omar in Paradise, 'Uthman, Ali, al-Zubair, Talha, AbdulRahman, Abu 'Ubaida, and Saad bin Abi Waqqass. He counted these nine and was quite about the tenth. They said: By Allah, abu-alAawar (i.e. Saeed), who is the tenth? He said: You swore by Allah - abu-alAawar is in Paradise." al-Tirmithi commented that abu-alAawar is Saeed bin Zaid bin Amr bin Nawfal.

1. Abu Bakr in Paradise,
2. Omar in Paradise,
3. 'Uthman,
4. Ali,
5. al-Zubair,
6. Talha,
7. AbdulRahman,
8. Abu 'Ubaida,
9. and Saad bin Abi Waqqass.
10. abu-alAawar -> Saeed bin Zaid bin Amr bin Nawfal.


Narrated Saeed bin Zayd:

Abdur-Rahman bin Al-Akhnas said that when he was in the mosque, a man abused Ali . So Saeed bin Zayd got up and said: "I bear witness to the Apostle of Allah (SAWS) that I heard him say: "Ten persons will go to Paradise: "Abu Bakr will go to Paradise, Umar will go to Paradise, Uthman will go to Paradise, Ali will go to Paradise, Talha will go to Paradise: Zubair bin Al-Awwam will go to Paradise, Sa'd bin Abi Waqqas will go to Paradise and Abdur-Rahman bin Awf will go to Paradise. If I wish, I can mention the tenth." The People asked: "Who is he?" so he kept silence. They again asked: "Who is he?" He replied: "He is Saeed ibn Zayd." He then said: "The company of one man whose face has been covered with dust by the Apostle of Allah (SAWS) is better than the actions of one of you for a whole life time even if he is granted the life-span of Noah." (Abu Dawud)

1) Abu Bakr
2) Umar
3) Uthman
4) Ali
5) Talha
6) Zubair bin Al-Awwam
7) Sa'd bin Abi Waqqas
8) Abdur-Rahman bin Awf
9) Saeed ibn Zayd (the narrator himself)

The count of Ten is not complete. Maybe my math is not good, if you do it for me please.
What other differences you can find in these Aahadith?



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