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Who is Yajuj and Mujuj


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#1 mysticjade

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Posted 09 July 2004 - 11:45 AM

Who are Gog and Magog?
By Abu Jamal



"Son of Adam, set your face toward YHWH of the land of Magog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal,a nd Prophesy against him:And say, thus says YHWH Elohenu: ' I am against you O Gog, the chief prince of Rosh, Meshech, Tubal:And i will turn back, and put hooks into your Jaws, and i will bring forth, and all your army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed most gorgeously, a great company with buckler and shield, all of them handing swords." Ezekiel 38:1-4

One of the most relevant, yet drastically misunderstood issues surrounding the rise of the Antichrist(Dajjal), is that of the nations of Gog and Magog. Many christians-and even some muslims following after their folly-have interpreted the nations of Gog and magog to be related to china.

Islamically this is an impossibility. Muhammad(saw) referred to china with utmost respect, saying that we must seek "Ilm" knowledge or science, even unto china. If Gog and Magog were China, certainly Muhammad(saw) would have made this matter clear.

As well , in light of the Antichrist's Babylon System declaring war on all the Middle Eastern lands, which do not bow to Western imperialism, many evangelists of teh antichrist's (dajjal) One world religion of Christianity have baselessly declared Gog and Magog to be arabs. Again , if Gog and Magog were the arabs then why wouldn't the Tanakh just say so? The truth of teh matter is that Gog and magog were and are people who had not yet emerged onto the Biblical scene when most of teh Tanakh was wrotten and later compiled. "Gog and Magog" thus refer to their ancestory, so that they might later be identified.

Hesiod, "The father of Greek didactic poetry"identified Magog with Scythians and as southern Russia in the 7 th century B.C. As well , Hesiod was a contemporary of ezekiel. The term "Rosh" employed by Ezekiel is teh etymological root of "Russia".

Herodotus of Harlincarnanuss, known as "Father of History" wrote much about the descendants of magog by their Greek name, the scythians, in the 5th century B.C. Archaelogical discoveries have confirmed Herodotus' reports.

Flavius Josephus records that the Magogians were called the "Scythians" by the greeks. Philo, in the 1rst century, identifies Magog with southern Russia.

In Arabic, Yajuj(gog) and Majuj(magog) are derived from Ajj or ajij in the forms of Yaful and maful and Ajij means "the flaming of fire" But Ajja also means 'asra a' or "he walked fast". Yajuj and Majuj have been compared to the flaming fire and surging water because of tehir intense agitation. As well we see the subtle correlation here with the nature the rapid expansion and spread of "the flaming fire"

Gog and Magog(Yajuj and Majuj) are mentioned twice in teh quran. Once they are mentioned in the 18th chapter in association with the description of Dajjal. Towards the end of teh chapter Dhul-l-Qarnain is spoken of as undertaking journeys in different directions to fortify the frontiers of his empire. Dhul-l-Qarnain literally means "The two horned one" but it also means one whose rule extends over two empires.

In the Tanakh, the Book of daniel, we find a mention of a vision of daniel, in which he saw a ram with two horns. the vision is interpreted in teh book itself in these words:"The ram which you saw having two horns are the kings of Media and persia" (Daniel 8:20). Among the kings of Media and Persia, Darius I(521-485 B.C) is the only one to whom the description of teh Quran Applies. the jewish Encyclopedia says: "Darius was teh organizer of the Persian Empire. His conquests served to round out the boundaries of his realm in Armenia, the Caucasus and India and along the Turanian Steppes and highlands of Central Asia". The following remarks in the encyclopedia Britannica strengthen this view:" Darius in his inscriptions appears as a fervant believer in the religion of Zoroaster. But he was also a great statesman and organizer. The time of conquests had come to an end: the wars which darius undertook...only served the purpose of gaining strong natural frontiers for teh empire and keeping down the barbarous tribes on its borders. thus Darius subjugated the wild nations of the Pontic and Armenian mountains and extended the Persian Dominian to the Caucasus.

The first Journey of Darius I-the emperor of persia-is spoken of as termination in teh Black Sea:
"Until when he reached the setting place of the sun(or the westernmost point), he found it going down into a black sea." Al-Quran 18:86
Then there is a reference to his eastern journey:
"Until when he raeched the (land of) the rising sun, he found it rising on a people to whom We had given no shelter from it." Al-Quran 18:90

Still further there is a reference to his northern journey:
"Until when he reached(a place) between the two mountains, he found on that side of them a people who could hardly understand a word." Al-Quran 18:93

The reference here is to the mountains of armenian and Azarbaijan. In this last journey , Dhul-l-Qarnain comes across a people who speak a different language; in other words they do not understand the Persian Language. These people appeal to Dhul-l-Qarnain in these words:
"O Djul-l-Qarnain! Gog and Magog do miscief in the land. May we then pay you tribute on condition that you raise a barrier between us and them?"Al-Quran 18:94

Further we are told taht Dhul-l-Qarnain actually constructed this wall, and tehre is mention of iron and copper in this connection, which were used for the gates:

"Bring me blocks of Iron. At length when he had filled the space between the two mountain sides, he said, Blow. Till when he made it fire, he said, Bring me molten brass to pour over it." Al-Quran 18:96

The barrier or wall referred to here is teh famous wall of derbent(darband), which is to be found on the shore of the Caspian Sea. There is mention of it in Marasid Al-Ittila, a famous book of geography. Ibn al_faqih also mentions it in his book. The Encyclopedia Biblica gives teh following account of teh wall:
"Derbent or Darband, a town of Persia, Caucasia, in teh province of daghistan, on teh western shore of the Caspian...to the south lies seaward extremity of the Caucasian wall, 50 miles long otherwise known as Alenander's wall...This, when entire, had a height of 29Ft and thickness of about 10 Ft, and with its iron gates and numerous watch towers formed a valuable defense of teh Persion Frontier."

In Al-Quran 18:97, we are told that when the wall was completed"they (Gog and Magog) were not able to scale it, nor could they make a hole in it."

In Al-Quran 18:98, Dhul-l-Qarnain is repoted as saying that even this wall will be of use only upto a certain time and it will at last collapse, and then we are presented with another scene:
"And on that day We shall let some of them (yajuj and majuj) surge against others." Al-Quran18:99

Immediately after speaking of Gog and Magog fighting each other in Verse Al-Quran 18:102, the account reverts to the subject of Al- Masih Ad Dajjal.
"Do those who believe think that tehy can take My servants to be friends besides Me?" Al-Quran 18:102
This shows that teh Quran identifies Dajjal with Gog and Magog. They are given two different names because of their two functions.

The second reference to Gog and Magog occurs in 21:96:
" Even when Gog and Magog are let loose and they rushing forth from every elevated place." Al-Quran21:96
"Rushing forth from every elevated place" means that tehy will establish their supremacy all over the world. The way the Quran speaks of them in both the places shows that a time will come when these people will overpower all the nations of the world. It also appears that they already existed at the time of the revelation of teh book, but that their movement were to remain checked until a certain time, after which they would wield uncontrolled authority in the whole world. Those who have eyes to see should see, and those with ears to hear should hear.


"These are the chronicles of Noah's sons, shem, ham and yeft. Children were born to them after the flood. The sons of yefth were gomer, magog, mondai, yavan,tuval,meshekh and tiras. The sons of gomer were ashkenaz, riphat and togarmah. The sons of Yavan were elishah, tarshish,kittim and dodanim. From these the isolated nations branched out into their lands. each had its own language for its families in its nations." Genesis 10:1-5

In the Bible, Gog and magog are mentioned in very cear terms, and no doubt is left as to their identity. Magog is one of Jefet's sons, while Gog is one of Reuben's sons. But Gog is called "Melekh Eretz Magog" in hebrew-meaning teh king of the land of Magog grammatically, in hebrew we can read the name"Magog" as meaning "from Gog". So we can see here the relation of America and Europe, as America is "from Europe"

Gog is mentioned clearly and this Gog is the same as Yajuj of the Quran. He is spoken of as being the chief of Russia, Moscow and Tubal. The three names mentioned in the bible are Rosh or Russia, Meshech or Moscow, and tubal or Tobalsk. while Russia is the name of the country, "Omask" and "Tubal" are the names of two rivers to the north of mount Caucasus. On the former is situated Moscow, and on the latter Tobalsk, both these being the famous cities of Russia.

So clearly these descendents of jafeth son of Noah were probably Teutonic people living in the north of Palestine(Ezekiel 38:2). Some sources identify Magog with Germania(Targum yonathon; Targum on 1 Chronicles 1:5; Pesikta Zutratha). Others identify them with teh Goths(Yerushalmi, Megillah 1:9). These were a teutonic people who migrated to scythia, in what is now southern Russia.

It is therefore not contradicotory when some sources identify Magog with scythia(josephus;Yoma 10a, according to Rabbenu Chananel;Arukh s.v.Germania). ancient hostories state that the Scythians came from Asia, driven by the Massegatae (meshech) and settling near the Cimerians(herodoyus4:11; note on Genesis 10:2, Gomer"). Linguistically, the Scythians were realted to the Iranians, and hence, to the persians and teh medes. It is therefore significant that there was a Persian tribe known as the Germanians(herodutus 1:125); which it is said, migrated to what is known as Germany.

The population of the land in which Russia is situated(europe), consists of two main races, Slavs and Teutons. the latter includes the British and the Germans. This clearly shows not only that Gog is the name of the eastern nations of europe, but also that Magog is the name of the western nations of that continent, the nations known as Teutons. It is also clear that in the beginning both these races lived in the same land. Gog and Magog were the titles of the ancestors of both Europe and Russia. Further evidence of this is found in the fact that are from very ancient times the statues og Gog and Magog are found installed in front of teh famous Guoldhall of London. If these names had nothing to do with the ancestors of these people, why should their statues be installed in this manner before teh chief assembly house of the nation?


The reference to these as given in the scriptures, together with teh historical evidence as furnished by these statues in London, establishes it with utmost certainity that gog and magog are no Fictitous names but are teh names of two ancient peoples which inhabit the continent of europe and whose influence together covers the whole of the earth.

In View of these clear indications as to the identity of these people, only one meaning can be attached to the quranic description of them, that they would "rush forth from every place advantage;" and this means that Europe will wield supreme authority over the whole surface of the globe. The expression "kulli hadab-in, " in sura 21:96, means "every place of advantage," demonstrating taht their dominance is not only in the physical but also in the intellectual sphere, and the other people of the world are their slaves not only in body but also mentally.
The Quran thus gives us a true picture of the political and cultural dominance of Europe over teh nations of the world, and teh very fact which has brought about a decline of true Islam in these "end of days"(a phrase the tanakh also refers to teh transition period in which we are now living as), is strangely enough also a clear proof of the truth of Islam.




#2 Hashash

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Posted 11 July 2004 - 05:19 PM

As-Salaam Alaikum

Thank for this very interesting article.

I believe that the author comes a long way but fails eventually in the exact specification due to errors in the premises used. These errors have caused the conclusion to be partially incorrect, namely the identification of the entity "Europe" as Gog.

I believe this should be instead Israel considering that the facillitation of Dajjal is an engagement of Amerikan-Israeli collaboration for the overwhelming part.

I believe that the error in identification is made to a few factors:

* it is assumed that Europe is an entity, whereas there have been various co-existing and dynamic entities existing in Europe, physically, culturall as well as linguistically and religiously. Many of those entities by no means apply to Gog/Magog.

* it is assumed that Europe consists of 2 races, Teutons & Slavs: Neither are racial phenotypes, if we are to assume even that racial sciences based on physical anthropology have any validity to begin with.

* it is assumed that biblical geneology is acceptable as racial connotations: such is not the case, geneology only represents a lineage amongst the many lineages a person consists of.

* it is not considered that much of western-European culture is the heritage of those calling themselves Israeli today.

Considering that the Israeli core and classic Zionist philosophy is of European origin, we can see that brother Abu Jamal comes a long way, however the fallascious racial views and simplifaction of European history and anthropology causes a generalized perspective that eventually comes to miss the essential nation today: the Zionist state of Israel.

If any relation is to be established between the contemporary Gog/Magog and their historical track it should be done so geonologically in consideration of specific cultural and political traits: this will conclude a presence of Gog/Magog amongst Eurasia, and not a definition of them as such that can be described physically in terms of race.

Already an irrefutable proof to such an error is the physical identity that is shared amongst certain Semitic, Indo-Aryan and Slavic speakers from the Balkans through Anatolia to Sham. If Gog/Magog would have been a physical entity as described it would have included many that would show no reflection in religion, culture or politics: such lack of reflection is impossible in the definition of Gog/Magog.

Whether the Scynthians or Darius are to be included in the historic presence I cannot say, but many alleged in the generalizations of the author have not and the further points to this I will adress in direct response to the notions:

The population of the land in which Russia is situated(europe), consists of two main races, Slavs and Teutons. the latter includes the British and the Germans. This clearly shows not only that Gog is the name of the eastern nations of europe, but also that Magog is the name of the western nations of that continent, the nations known as Teutons. It is also clear that in the beginning both these races lived in the same land. Gog and Magog were the titles of the ancestors of both Europe and Russia. Further evidence of this is found in the fact that are from very ancient times the statues og Gog and Magog are found installed in front of teh famous Guoldhall of London. If these names had nothing to do with the ancestors of these people, why should their statues be installed in this manner before teh chief assembly house of the nation?

As mentioned, both Slavic and Teutonic races are a fallacy: neither are a racial entity, nor do they make up the whole of the European population if they were.

For example, the Finns have significant Mongolian heritage, while the Hungarians have significant Turkic heritage: Neither are Slav nor Teutonic: the Hungarians were even part the western Austro-Ungarian empire in which we certainly we would find traits of Gog/Magog.

The fact that British claim ancestry does not mean that Europeans do, nor that all ancestry claimed is accurate: they also claimed to be Aryan in race and belonging to India, which they are not and do not.

If we are establishing geneological presence of Gog/Magog in both Eastern and Western Europe, this does not mean that all the inhabitants of both regions are to be identified as such: they cannot be, for they form no entities.

In addition, both have known empires (Hellenic Empire, Holy Roman Empire, Byzantine Empire) that existed amongst those historically, culturally and ideologically ascribed to Gog/Magog. Another example is the Orthodox Church, encompassing various people of various cultures oh whom parts are subject to the fallacious definition of a Teuton and Slav, yet other parts are not.

But Gog is called "Melekh Eretz Magog" in hebrew-meaning teh king of the land of Magog grammatically, in hebrew we can read the name"Magog" as meaning "from Gog". So we can see here the relation of America and Europe, as America is "from Europe"

I think that the relation should be viewed geneologically, culturally, religiously and politically. Yes such a relationship could be established between Europe and America, but this means that israel is left out: this while Israel itself comes from both Europe and Amerika.

I propose a different view however: they developped as the Germanic tribes of Europe became the establishment in defeat of the Roman Empire, as some of the decending nations of these tribes began colonizing the world and settled there the latest being Israel.

Israel is often being segregated as having a Jewish foundation in opposite of Western society that has a Christian foundation: but aside of Christianity itself to be derrived from Judaism, western society has much of its developped thanks to those that came from a Jewish background such: Albert Einstein, Karl Marx and Sigmund Freud.

It is worthy to note that in both cases, neither Christianity nor Judaism are much adhered, instead that there is an ideological background

This is no different today, as Israel is not a Jewish state (Zionism is not Judaism) and Amerika not a Christian one (Rapture-Ready Evangelics are not Christians), yet one comes from the other: Gog & Magog.

Masalaam

#3 Baseeji-

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Posted 11 July 2004 - 05:39 PM

in tarikhul islam the juj and majuj are stated total different.

They aint human and Zhulqharnayn made that wall. they still behind that wall.

#4 Hashash

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Posted 11 July 2004 - 09:30 PM

Salaam, could you elaborate on the perspective that they aint human?

In the meantime I found an article to which I agree in general with its conclusions, but not exactly on how they have been concluded:

In Gog - They Trust?

Islamic Party Brittain

[i]On November the 9th 1951, Winston Churchill made a speech at the Lord Mayor of London's Banquet at the Guildhall, marking the occasion of the restoration of the effigies of Gog and Magog to their traditional places of honour in the west end of the Guildhall in the City of London. They had been removed during the Blitz to prevent them from being damaged. Earlier figures had been destroyed in the Great Fire of London in 1666. The present pair were carved by Richard Saunders in 1708.

"It seems that they (i.e. Gog and Magog) represent none too badly the present state of world politics. World politics, like the history of Gog and Magog, are very confused and much disputed. Still, I think there is room for both of them. On the one side is Gog, and on the other is Magog. But be careful, my Lord Mayor, when you put them back, to keep them from colliding with each other; for if that happens, both Gog and Magog would be smashed to pieces and we should all have to begin all over again and begin from the bottom of the pit." (Source: The Times, London, for 10 November 1951)

The term 'The Iron Curtain', was coined by Churchill. Rather an appropriate description, for it was a Curtain of Iron which Dhul Qarnain erected to prevent Gog and Magog spreading their terrifying, malevolent corruption in the land.

In a television documentary, covering the world at war, it was disclosed that before the end of World War II, Joseph Stalin (lets say, representing Gog) and Winston Churchill (representing Magog) met at what was called the 'Percentage Conference', at which they exchanged percentages of the various countries they controlled for those they wished to control. For instance, Britain took a 90% share in Greece, in exchange for giving up its 90% control of Rumania. Afterwards, Churchill is reported to have said to Stalin ‑ who, by the way, was a Georgian from the Caucasus:

"Its a pity God didn't consult us when He made the world?"

To which Stalin is said to have replied:

"Yes, and that was His first mistake."

Britain then fermented civil war in Greece in which the Communists, who looked to Stalin for help, were betrayed by him. A reflection of the Arabic root of Gog (Ya'juj) portrays a meaning association of something worthless, like an artificial pearl, as well as rendering something worthless, and of destroying, annihilating and burning out. Zainab bint Jahsh reported that Allah's apostle, upon whom be showered peace, got up from sleep saying:

"'There is a destruction in store for Arabia because of turmoil which is at hand, the barrier of Gog and Magog has opened so much'. And Sufyan made a sign of ten with the help of his hand (in order to indicate the width of the gap) and I said: 'Allah's Messenger, would we be perished in spite of the fact that there would be good people amongst us'? Thereupon he said: 'Of course, but only when the evil predominates'." (Muslim)

The Bible refers to 'Magog' as the second son of Japheth between Gomer and Madai, Gomer representing the Cimmerians, Madai, the Medes. But in the list of nations, Genesis 10, the term connotes rather the complex of barbarian peoples dwelling at the extreme north and north east of the earth as one finds in that chapter; in Ezekiel 39:6, the Magog is referred to as a northern people, the leader of whom is Gog. According to the Jewish Encyclopedia, article 'Gog and Magog', Josephus identifies them with the Scythians, a name which among the classical writers stands for a number of unknown ferocious tribes. According to Jerome, Magog was situated beyond the Caucasus near the Caspian Sea. The barrier referred to in the Hadith and the Qur'an is the famous wall built between Derbend and Darial. It is a very narrow defile, with overhanging rocks, occurring on the main route between Turkestan and India. It is now in Soviet territory in the district of Daghistan. Before the southern expansion of Russia in 1813, it belonged to Persia. A spur of Mount Caucasus here comes up close to the sea. A map showing this particular route is to be found in the opening of Arthur Koestler's book 'The Thirteenth Tribe'. However, Abdullah Yusuf Ali, in his translation of the Qur'an, says in the appendix to Surah 18, The Cave, in which Gog and MaGog are mentioned, that if, as he believes, Dhul Qarnain, or Zul - qarnain was Alexander the Great, then the more likely location for this iron curtain or obstruction, is near another Derbend in Central Asia. He states:

"...I do not consider that historical or geographical considerations have much bearing on a story treated as a Parable, as Zul - qarnain's story is. Indeed all stories or narrations are referred to in the Qur'an as Parables, for their spiritual meaning. Heated controversies or dogmatic assertions as to precise dates, personalities, or localities, seem to me to be out of place."

He further observes:

"The question of Yajuj and Majuj (Gog and Magog) and the iron barrier built to keep them out is of some interest. It is practically agreed that they were the wild tribes of Central Asia which have made inroads on settled kingdoms and Empires at various stages of history. The Chinese Empires suffered from their incursions and built the Great Wall of China to keep out the Manchus and Mongols. The Persian Empire suffered from them at various times and at various points. Their incursions into Europe in large hordes caused migrations and displacements of populations on an enormous scale, and eventually broke up the Roman Empire. These tribes were known vaguely to the Greeks and Romans as "Scythians", but that term does not help us very much, either ethnically or geographically. If we could locate the iron barrier or iron gates referred to in Surah 18, verse 96, we should have a closer idea of the tribes whom the barrier was meant to keep out. The Barrier in the text must have been more in the nature of iron gates than an iron wall. Two Iron Gates, geographically far apart, have been suggested in the alternative. Sometimes they have been mixed up by writers not strong on geography. Both of them have local associations with the name Alexander the Great. Both are near a town Derbend, and have borne the name Bab - ul - hadid (Arabic for "Iron Gate")".

"The best known in modern times is at the town and seaport of Derbend in the middle of the western coast of the Caspian Sea", formerly the Khazar Sea, but "the gate which corresponds exactly to the Quranic description, and has the best claim to be connected with Alexander's story ... is near another Derbend in Central Asia, Hissar District, about 150 miles south - east of Bukhara. A very narrow defile, with overhanging rocks, occurs on the main route between Turkestan and India: Latitude 38N; Longitude 67E. It is now called in Turkic, Buzghol - Khana (Goat House), but was formerly known as the Iron Gate (in Arabic, "Bab - ul - hadid"; in Persian, "Dar - i - ahani; in Chinese "T'ie - men - kuan"). There is no iron gate there now, but there was one in the 7th century, when the Chinese traveller Hiouen Tsiang saw it on his journey to India. He saw two folding gates cased with iron and hung with bells. Near by is a lake Iskander Kul, connecting the locality with Alexander the Great. We know from history that Alexander, after his conquest of Persia and before his journey to India, visited Sogdiana (Bukhara) and Marcanda (Samarkand). We also know from Muqaddasi, the Arab traveller and geographer, who wrote about AH 375 (AD 985 - 6) that the 'Abbasi Khalifa Wathiq (842 - 846 AD) sent out a mission to Central Asia to report on this Iron Gate. They found the defile 150 yards wide: on two jambs made with bricks of iron welded together with molten lead, were hung two huge gates, which were kept closed. Nothing could correspond more exactly with the description in Surah 18, 95 - 96."

"If then, the Barrier in Surah 18, 95 - 98 refers to the Iron Gate near Bukhara, we are able to proceed to a consideration of the Gog Magog people with some confidence. They were the Mongol tribes on the other side of the Barrier, while the industrious men who did not understand Zul - qarnain's language were the Turks, with their agglutinative language, so different from the languages then spoken in Western Asia. The Barrier served its purpose for the time being. But the warning that the time would come when it must crumble to dust has also come true. It has crumbled to dust. Long since, the Mongols pushed through on their westward journey, pushing the Turks before them, and the Turks became a European power and still have a footing in Europe. We need not bother about the legends of the Gog Magog people. They were reputedly giants, and two tiny hills in flat Cambridgeshire are derisively called the Gog Magog hills! Similarly the statues of Gog Magog in the Guildhall in London, which Maulana Muhammad Ali takes so seriously, only remind us how legends are apt to grow and get transported to strange places. In the Alexander legends of medieval Europe, Gog and Magog are said to have come with 400,000 men to the help of Porus whom Alexander defeated, They fled to the mountains, and Alexander built a wall with brass gates to prevent their irruptions."


On page 115 of 'The Cavendish Encyclopedia of Mythology', we find a 14th - century 'Mongol' painting linking Alexander with Gog and Magog. The caption reads:

"The legends of Alexander the Great seem to have inspired the exploits of a number of Arabian and non - Arabian warrior kings called Dhul - Qarnayn, one of whom is mentioned in the Qur'an. In this 14th - century Il - Khanid 'Mongol' painting, Iskandar (Alexander) is shown extending his realm into the northern regions perpetually shrouded by fog beyond the Caucasus on the route to Gog and Magog."

The link, between Gog & Magog, Goemagog, Gog MacGog, (Mac, meaning son of) or Yajuj * Majuj, with England, was made by Geoffrey of Monmouth in his 'History of The Kings of Britain', around 1136 A.D. The two figures now standing in the Guildhall of the City of London have been officially known as Gog and Magog for the past 300 years. So was Geoffrey of Monmouth just being "inventive" or is there any additional evidence to support his assertion that Britain, particularly the occupants of the Palace of Brute, now The City of London's Guildhall, bear any resemblance to their namesakes - Gog & MacGog, (Yajuj & Majuj)? It might be a valid interpretation of the iron gate that would keep GogMagog at bay until they manage to overcome it, on a day when according to the Qur'an "people will mingle with each other like waves", that it is the mastery of iron, i.e. modern technology, that finally gave them the upper hand in world affairs after the industrial revolution.

In a recent letter to Frank McManus (the present Lord Mayor of Todmorden), John Clark, Curator of Medieval London History and Collections at the Museum of London, pointed out that the link with the City of London and the giant Goemagog goes back to 1558, when wickerwork effigies of Goemagog and his captor, the Trojan Corineus, were carried around The City in the Lord Mayors' processions. In 1558 they were placed at Temple Bar to welcome Queen Elizabeth the Ist on a visit to The City of London having been used earlier on, to welcome Queen Mary and Philip II of Spain at London Bridge in 1554.

Giants have appeared in civic processions in London for more than five centuries, according to Jennifer Westwood, in her book 'Albion. A Guide To Legendary Britain'. In 1415 a pair welcomed Henry V home after Agincourt. Prior to 1554 they seem to have been called Sampson and Herculese. But in Tudor times the more ancient legends of Albion - the earlier name for Britain - came to the fore, and with them, the names of Gog Magog - Gog the Son of Gog.

The story has it, that, Feniusa Farsa was, according to Robert Graves in his 'The White Goddess', "an ancestor of the Irish Milesians". "Why", he says "is Feniusa Farsa described as a Scythian, a grandson and founder of the Milesian race? Gog and Magog are closely connected names. 'GogMagog', Gog the son of Gog - was the name of the giant whom 'Brute the Trojan' is said to have defeated in Totnes in Devonshire in his invasion of Britain at the close of the second millennium. But from where did Gog mac Gog originate. The answer is to be found in Genesis X,2, where Magog is described as the son of Japheth (who figures in Greek myth as Iapetus the Titan, the father of the goddess Asia of Atlas, Prometheus and Epimetheus) and as a brother of Gomer, Madai, Javan, Tubal, Meschec and Tiras - who are generally agreed to have been the Cimmerians, the Medians, the Ionians, the Tibarenians, the Moschians and the Tyrrhenians. The Moschians and the iron - working Tibarenians were tribes of the south - eastern Black - Sea region; the wandering Black - Sea tribe of Cimmerians eventually became the Cymry; the Ionians ranked as Greeks in historical times but were perhaps Aegean immigrants into Greece from Phonecia; the Tyrrhenians were an Aegean tribe some of whom emigrated from Lydia to Etruria... Gog is identified with the northern tribe of Gagi mentioned in an inscription of Amenhotep III, and 'Gogarene', in Strabo's day, was the part of Armenia, lying to the east of the territory of the Moschians and Tibarenians. Magog's grandfather was Noah, and Noah's Ararat [of course Noah's ark landed on mount Judi] was in Armenia, so that Magog is usually held to stand for Armenia; though Josephus interprets the word as meaning 'the Scythians', which was an inclusive name for all the Black Sea tribes of his day." This follows on from an earlier mention of Magog where he quotes the following from Keating's 'History of Ireland':

"Feniusa Farsa, a grandson of Magog and King of Sythia, desirous of mastering the seventy - two languages created at the confusion of Babel sent seventy - two persons to learn them."

Another point worth remembering, is the fact that in Gaelic, Jesus is called Isa Mac Maryam - Jesus the Son of Mary.

Another interesting fact is that many words in Irish are similar to Urdu and Persian. Ireland is supposed to be the Land of the Aryans. In Dublin you can find Aryan symbols. The Swastika Laundry for example; and some Irish script is similar to Indian.

It is also interesting to note, that, when Mikhail Gorbachev addressed a gathering at a Guildhall banquet in the City of London, mention was made of "our common European home...". From the foregoing, we can see that Gog and Magog at one level, is a blanket term for all the people of Central Asia, Russia, including the earlier Scythians and the present day survivors of the Khazars, the Ashkenazi Jews. What ever the case may be, Gog and Magog were considered to be descendants of Noah, and as such, human beings; albeit, rather tall. Similar, perhaps, in stature to Goliath, the Giant killed by the Holy Prophet David, peace be upon him. Whether or not they were all tall, the fact remains that men of giant, stature and formidable military prowess existed, and are made mention of in both the Bible and the Qur'an. It could, of course, simply be a metaphorical reference to their military achievements, like those other military "giants" Alexander and Genghis Khan. There is evidence to support the claim that they were the Mongol precursors of Genghis Khan, thwarted by Alexander or Dhul - Qarnain, who still survive. We often hear Shakespeare being referred to as one of the "giants of literature", but he was, to the best of our knowledge, of average height physically.

Following hard on the heals of finding the Ark of Noah, located as stated in the Qur'an on Mount Judi, and corresponding exactly to the biblical dimensions of 300 cubits long x 50 wide (515ft x 135ft), which have recently been carbon dated as being 100,000 years old, we have yet another archaeological find of major significance, which establishes that some accounts in the unaltered scriptures can be taken as literal truth. In 'Wake up!' a publication by 'British Israel', July/August 1994, we find the following information:

"Goliath's skull found near Jerusalem: The Kingdom Times, Belfast, May 1994, carried the story of how a leading archaeologist had found Goliath's scull in a valley west of Jerusalem with the stone from David's slingshot still embedded in his forehead! Dr. Richard Martin says the discovery proves that David's battle with the 10 - foot giant happened just like the Bible said it did, 1,000 years before the birth of Yahshua... " This is the archaeological find of the century, if not of all time," Dr.Martin told reporters at a conference in Jerusalem. "Many people, including scholars and clergymen, would have us believe that the biblical account of David and Goliath is little more than an interesting piece of fiction," he said. "But we found this skull in the valley of El'ah, in the Judean mountains, where David's battle with Goliath was said to have taken place. Even more intriguing, the skull is huge and clearly belonged to a man of enormous stature... And if you believe the Bible, you know that Goliath was 9 feet 8 inches tall... But the most telling piece of evidence is the small round rock we found embedded in the forehead. The Bible tells that David killed Goliath with a stone thrown from a leather sling." Dr.Martin found the skull during an archaeological survey 20 miles south - west of Jerusalem on the 23rd of March, 1993. He and his assistants instantly realized that the find was important; but, it was only when they had performed tests which showed the skull to be between 2,900 and 3,000 years old that they began to think they had found the remains of Goliath. "As I said before, the skull that we had found had a rock stuck in the forehead. There was also evidence to suggest that the head had been severed from the body by a sharp object, most likely a sword. There can be little doubt that this is Goliath's skull. To be perfectly frank, I'm staking my career on it," said Dr.Martin.

It seems difficult to deny, that Gog -Magog are descendants of Noah, upon whom be peace, along with the rest of us. They were, and still are, a people with an overriding desire, and ability to create mischief, havoc and corruption as the means of attaining their objectives. Objectives, which, they believe, always justify the means. It is interesting to note that when discussing the various prophetic traditions about Gog and Magog, the tafsir of Al - Qurtubi, identifies them as the Slavs as the main group of descendants of Japheth, which throws yet another ray of light on the current conflict in the former Yugoslavia as well as previous events in the Balkans that destroyed world peace. Many of the Ahadith quoted describe the tribes of Gog and Magog as numerous and ferocious people who will degenerate into wild and bestial ways.

Further light is shed on the information given by Robert Graves, in the footnotes to Genesis, in the Scofield reference bible. It states:

"A prophetic declaration is made that from Japheth will descend the "enlarged" races (Gen.9:27). On Genesis 10.2, it gives as the descendants of the 'Sons of Japheth' the following tribes:

1. Gomer, Progenitor of the ancient Cimerians and Cimbri, from whom are descended the Celtic family.

2. Magog: From Magog are descended the ancient Scythians, or Tartars, whose descendents predominate in the modern Russia."


Note: Tartar, The New Encyclopedia informs us, was the name employed in China and medieval Europe for the mounted nomads of Central Asia. "Under Gengis Khan and his successors they established the empire of Tartary and from 1238 to 1462 they dominated Eastern Europe. In the form Tartar the name survives in Russian use... The Tartar Republic is an autonomous republic of the USSR. It is situated between the Chuvash and Bashkir and was formed in 1920. Kazan is the capital. People of Turkic speech". "Tartary. The Name, formerly used to describe the land between the Pacific and the Dnieper River which constituted the Mongol Empire. In terms of cities sacked and lands conquered, the Mongols were the mightiest of all the nomadic peoples. In 1206, Temujin, the son of a Mongol chief, who was slain, united the Mongol tribes under his unchallenged leadership. In that same year he was declared Gengis Khan, 'Ruler of the World'." Genkis Khan's pillaging conquests are well known. Continuing in true Ma'Gogian tradition, the Merciless Great Khan, Timur, had 20,000 people massacred after taking Baghdad in 1401. These descendants of the Gog and Ma'Gog family created the largest empire in history. Other branches would keep up the family business. Genghis Cohen perhaps?

Scofield Continued:

"3. Madai: Progenitor of the ancient Medes.

4. Javan: Progenitor of those who peopled Greece, Syria, etc.

5 .Tubal: Tubal's descendants peopled the region south of the Black Sea, from whence they spread north and south. It is possible that Tobolsk perpetuates the tribal name. A branch of this race peopled Spain.

6. Meshech: Progenitor of a race mentioned in connection with Tubal, Magog, and other northern nations. Broadly speaking, Russian, excluding the conquests of Peter the Great and his successors, is the modern land of Magog, Tubal, and Meshech."

7. Tiras: Progenitor of the Thracians."


From these seven sons of Japheth are descended the 'goyim', or Gentile, nations, translated "heathen" 148 times in the Bible. In Genesis 10:3, we find another name related to the present world's problems: That of Ashkenaz, son of Gomer. In the present State of Israel it is a fact that the Ashkenazi, or Gentile Jews, greatly outnumber the Orthodox, Semitic Jews, Giving rise to the assertion that Genesis 9:27, is now a fact of life. It states:

"God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem".

The following article appeared in The Church Times, on the 24th January 1992, by Bishop Hugh Montefiore:

"The liberation of Eastern Europe and the former USSR is good news, but a sad consequence has been a resurgence of anti - Semitism, with stirrings even in Britain fanned by the Maxwell scandals. In fact 'Cap'n Bob', like most Jews, probably did not have much more than a fluid ounce of genuine Jewish blood in his veins. Anti - Semitism is built on a powerful racial myth, accepted by Jews and anti - Semites alike.

Christianity in the Old World is divided mainly on ethnic lines, with the Orthodox Churches in the Middle East and Eastern Europe, and the Catholic and Protestant Churches in the West. So also the Jewish world is divided into Sephardim and Ashkenazim. The Sephardim are so called because they once lived in Spain (Sepharad) until expelled, and thence in the Mediterranean, Turkey, and the Low Countries (and from there to England). The prosperous Spanish Jews had intermarried a lot with Gentile nobles. There were also many Jews who had settled in Italy and elsewhere in the Mediterranean by New Testament times, and their numbers were increased by refugees from Byzantium. Their descendants remained in these countries until eventually expelled.

The largest group is the Ashkenazim in Eastern Europe. In the Bible Ashkenaz is not descended from Shem but Japheth, and Ashkenaz refers to a people living around Mount Ararat and Armenia. In the last century there were very large numbers of Jews in Russia and Eastern Europe. How did they get there? Received wisdom is that they were forced eastwards from France and Germany into Poland, the Balkans, Lithuania and Russia. But there were few Jews in France and Germany to migrate, and European migrations have actually gone from east to west. In the Middle Ages the Khazars, a people of Turkish stock, formed a great empire from the Black Sea to the Caspian, and from the Caucasus to the Volga. They found themselves between the triumphant followers of Muhammad and the forces of Christian Byzantium. They resisted both, and converted to Judaism. Pre - Christian Austria was even said to have been ruled by Jewish princes, and a Byzantine chronicle tells of Hungarian troops observing the Jewish Law. By the 11th Century the Khazar Empire had begun to crumble although it lasted into the 13th. Like the Jews of the Levant, the Khazars lived amid the great trade routes and engaged in commerce; like them too they kept their Judaic faith. Some remained in Russia: most went to the Balkans, Lithuania and Poland, and on to Germany.

It is these who form the origin of the millions of Jews who lived in Eastern Europe. All kinds of evidence supports this. Yiddish, a mixture of Hebrew, Polish and German, contains no word of Franco - Rhenish origin. The hook nose is typical not of the Levant but the Caucasus. There is no one Jewish racial type: in each area Jews conform to the Gentile type among whom they live. 'Anthropology concurs with history in refuting the popular belief in a Jewish race descended from the biblical tribe,' wrote Arthur Koestler 16 years ago in 'The Thirteenth Tribe' but his words were as distasteful to Jews as to their enemies. Shamir is busy peopling the West Bank with Russian Jews of non - Semitic origin, Russian pogroms were against people of Khazar - Turkish stock, Hitler's holocaust was a massacre of non - Semites. Maxwell, a Czech Jew, would have had a similar kind of genetic fingerprint."


Bishop Montefiore should know, he is, after all, of Jewish stock. Which is why Mrs. Thatcher called him her 'Jewish Arch Bishop'. The Scythian, Ashkenazi - Khazar, Robert Maxwell, was certainly guilty of betraying and defrauding countless thousands of countless millions. But, this surely pales into insignificance at the side of the damage inflicted on us by that other False - Israelite, the late, Lord Victor Rothschild, who, at long last, has finally been identified as 'The Fifth Man', alongside the other four Cambridge spies: Guy Burgess, Donald Maclean, Kim Philby, and Anthony Blunt. He was correctly identified as "Britain's greatest traitor", in The Daily Express, on Saturday, October 15th 1994. Hardly surprising, in true Rothschild fashion, he was able to run with the hare and bite with the hounds. For this 3rd Lord Rothschild, of the mighty banking dynasty, was a member of MI5, Israeli Intelligence, the Mossad, the KGB, and an agent - runner for heads of MI6. For a banker, split allegiances do not represent a conflict of interests. They are essential if you are in the business of money lending. Bankers always create conflicts in order to finance both sides.

After all these years of investigating the question of Gog and Magog, we still find some matters unresolved. However, what can be safely said is that the sons of Japheth will be responsible for bringing about the ultimate catastrophe - at the Hill of Megido i.e., Armageddon (Palestine).

If, as would seem to be the case, the 'Tents of Shem' are now occupied by The Sons of Japheth, (Genesis 9:27), then the scene must surely be set for the final showdown. Although Judaism, should not have anything to do with the idea of racial superiority, over the centuries, this has become so, and is one of mankind's abiding errors. Apart from the evidence, identifying the Khazars as non - Semitic; their choice of the term Ashkenazi, immediately places them in the Gentile camp. For Ashkenaz, as we have seen, is identified in Genesis 10:3, as the first born of Gomer, who was the first born of Japheth:

"And the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz, and Riphath and Torgomah."

Therefore, the vast majority of the inhabitants of the State of Israel can legitimately be called - Gog and Ma'Gog, who reject Christ and the religion of Abraham, and oppress Muslims. Therefore, they are the vanguard of anti - Christ. And who, but a Zionist sycophant, could deny their historic, despotic credentials.

- Jan 1995

Masalaam

Edited by Hashash, 11 July 2004 - 09:31 PM.


#5 Shia Shahid

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Posted 12 July 2004 - 01:14 AM

Several important points to consider here:

The tribes of Gog and Magog have been difficult for historians to pinpoint. Some have pointed to Slavic and Teutonic origins, claiming that "gog came from Russia", but there are also opposing theories.

* Gog and Magog were also associated by Europeans with the Mongols at the time of Ogodai Khan's conquest of Eastern Europe. The Mongols even got as far as Vienna before Ogodei died and they were called to return home.

* Some historical evidence indicates that Gog and Magog were Turkic in origin, and descended from Yaafih (Japheth).

* The claim that Scythians and "tatars" were the same is baseless.

Scythians were long known to be a fierce group of tribes of Indo-European origin, and probably came from central Asia. Scythians were in fact an Iranian ethnic group, but whereas most Iranian ethnic groups settled and founded civilizations, the Scythians (Sakas) retained the old nomadic Aryan lifestyle. They were feared as pillagers and raiders, yet they did have kings and some loosely structured form of government. King Darius tried to subdue them, launching a number of military campaigns which eventually got tangled into the conflict between Persia and Greece. The Persian Empire did exercise some authority over some Scythian tribes, but they retained a level of semi-Autonomy, and neither Darius nor the other Persian kings were able to fuly break their power. The Scythians eventually became as diverse as any group of Indo-European people, invading territories as far apart as India, Siberia, the Caucasus, Europe, and the northern borders of Khorasan.

"Tatars", on the other hand, were not Iranian or Aryan, nor were they any sort of Indo-Europeans. "Tatars" is a somewhat derogatory term that was used by the crusaders to refer to all nomadic Far Eastern peoples, especially the Mongols. The Mongols and the other nomadic peoples of the East Asian steppes are of Turko-Mongolian descent (although most of the tribal distinctions in Mongolia have been totally obscured).

As for the claims about Alexander the "great". Many classic commentators of the Qur'an have claimed that Dhul-Qarnayn (Zul-Karnein) was in fact Alexander.

This view has several problems. First of all, the sequence of the ayat pertaining to Dhul-Qarnayn indicates that he first traveled west before going east. However, Alexander was always going east during his campaign against the Persians. He never traveled west of his homeland, Macedonia.

The second problem is that Dhul-Qarnayn is never described as attacking Persia, the way Alexander did. But this inconsistency is not very relevant to the issue at hand.

The third, and most serious problem with the Alexander theory, is the character of Alexander as opposed to that of Dhul-Qarnayn. Dhul-Qarnayn, according to the Qur'an, was a just man, a servant of Allah, possibly even a prophet. Allah says in the Qur'an, "We made him mighty in the land".

Alexander does not match this description. Indeed, it seems to me that Dhul-Qarnayn could have been anybody but Alexander.
Whereas Dhul-Qarnayn is described as a just and prophetic man, Alexander was a pagan, a heathen, with very little that could be called just. He massacred the Greeks of Thebes (and not because they committed shirk - Alexander comitted shirk too), he destroyed cities like Tyre and sold their populations into slavery.

Alexander destroyed civilizations, burned cities, killed many thousands of Persians and their allies. He is even known to have totally annihilated at least two tribes in India. He destroyed Takht-e-Jamshid, and robbed the treasuries of Persia of enough gold to equal (accounting for inflation) the combined economies of Russia, Britain, and France. He also forced people to worship him and killed them if they refused. Alexander destroyed great civilizations and left destruction and ashes in their place.

And Alexander was anything but Muslim. He is well-known to have been a mushrik. He worshipped the Greek idols, claiming to be a descendant of Zeus-Ammon, and his favorite idol was reported to be Dionysus (Bacchus), the Greek idol associated with wine and lust. When in Egypt, Alexander worshipped Amun-Re (the ancient Egyptian equivalent of Zeus). When in Phoenicia (where Lebanon is today) he worshipped Baal, a local idol that he associated with Hercules. In Babylon, Alexander prayed to the idol Marduk, and had the golden statue of Bel restored (it had been destroyed by King Xerxes), and Alexander worshipped that too. Alexander even claimed that he was divine, and forced conquered people to worship him. The Persians refused to do this, so he massacred them.

In addition, many Greek sources allege that Alexander was a homosexual, and that his supposed lover, Hephastion, was given priveleges of wealth and power although he did not help Alexander in any significant way militarily. Whether or not this was true of Alexander, it was a common practice among ancient Greek and Macedonian men, particularly their warriors, and it certainly does not help Alexander's reputation.

The Greek accounts, written be people who were all sympathetic to Alexander, bear testament to all of this. What I have mentioned here is only a tiny fraction of the evils comitted by or attributed to Alexander. With better knowledge of these things, it becomes clear that Alexander could not have been Dhul-Qarnayn.

* It is possible that one of the Achamenid Persian Kings (who lived before Alexander's time) could have been Dhul-Qarnayn. Unlike Alexander, they were favorably inclined towards monotheism, and some of them are known to have gone west (in their travels and conquests), before they turned east. It is unknown whether they came into contact with peoples of Turkish descent, so if one of them was Dhul-Qarnayn, then gog and magog may have been Cimmerians, Scythians, or a similar group of nomadic Aryan invaders. The exact identity of Dhul-Qarnayn, the exact identity of the original Gog and Magog, and the exact location of his wall, remain unknown to the public today.


I have tried my best in this effort, to keep to the facts about history and authentic sources. All the good comes from Allah, and the bad is from myself and shaitan. May Allah forgive me for any mistakes I may have made above, as it was my sincere intention to state what I believe to be true, and I did not knowingly intend to write falsehoods. And Allah knows best.

Edited by Shia Shahid, 12 July 2004 - 01:21 AM.


#6 Apotheosis

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Posted 12 July 2004 - 03:03 AM

Asalaam Alaikum...

Included is the URL to a well-researched article 'in progress' that deals with many of the details surrounding 'Gog and Magog' already presented -- and also offers some new and very interesting material that, although clearly not from an Islamic perspective, may shed some light on this topic as it impacts us today and, possibly, in the future. :)

`ws`
Robert

Nostradamus, Edgar Cayce, Jupiter, and The Return of the Mongols
By: Laura Knight-Jadczyk

http://www.cassiopae...kj-04-03-06.htm

#7 husainshahid

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Posted 04 August 2004 - 12:54 PM

This whole topic of who Yajuj and Majuj are is nebulous. So many apparently convincing identities have ben put forward as to who they are. This theory should be taken in that light. HOWEVER in criticism of it and in some defence of the equally contentious theory that it refers to the Chinese is the fact that the Hadith prophesy the fact that before the rising of Imam Mahdi (as) there will be an invasion of the Middle East by a non-western force that will overwhelm the arabs (especially in Iraq) and that then this force is attacked by the army of the white races led by greed for the wealth of the region - and that the whiteman's onslaught virtually totally decimates this invading power in one strike, to the degree that the corpses of the defeated army's soldiers, which is of huge multitudes, putrefy unburied and create a terrible stench in the region (Qiyamat-e-Sughra by Maulana Qamar Zaidi). However I cannot recollect if the invading army that is annihilated by the westerners that is spoken of is referred to as Yajuj and Majuj.

Of course it maybe that Yajuj and Majuj refers to both the chinese and americans. I guess given the research into the derivations of these words that even that theory could somehow be 'proved' using this rather abstruse method!

#8 Albarnosse de Medinacelli

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Posted 11 May 2006 - 07:33 AM

Gog and Magog were used by Ezekiel as a leader of a hostile people in the north(Ezek.38:2). The north depends where Ezekiel was living in his dream when he received the revelation.
In Revelation 20:8 Gog and Magog were used as the symbols of the ennemies of the Kingdom of God.
In any case Gog and Magog were the products of an inspiration and not history.any identification today has no meaning since the antiques times they never exists........
Babylonians epigraphies,Hittites,even Persian and Medes never refer to such people.
Gog and Magog are similar to Sindbad and Shehrazad.



This whole topic of who Yajuj and Majuj are is nebulous. So many apparently convincing identities have ben put forward as to who they are. This theory should be taken in that light. HOWEVER in criticism of it and in some defence of the equally contentious theory that it refers to the Chinese is the fact that the Hadith prophesy the fact that before the rising of Imam Mahdi (as) there will be an invasion of the Middle East by a non-western force that will overwhelm the arabs (especially in Iraq) and that then this force is attacked by the army of the white races led by greed for the wealth of the region - and that the whiteman's onslaught virtually totally decimates this invading power in one strike, to the degree that the corpses of the defeated army's soldiers, which is of huge multitudes, putrefy unburied and create a terrible stench in the region (Qiyamat-e-Sughra by Maulana Qamar Zaidi). However I cannot recollect if the invading army that is annihilated by the westerners that is spoken of is referred to as Yajuj and Majuj.

Of course it maybe that Yajuj and Majuj refers to both the chinese and americans. I guess given the research into the derivations of these words that even that theory could somehow be 'proved' using this rather abstruse method!



#9 Curious Infidel

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Posted 11 May 2006 - 09:16 AM

Al-Majnoon and I were discussing and we think Gog and Magog refer to the ancient Celts.


Up the Irish! :!!!:

#10 Jarh

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Posted 12 May 2006 - 07:30 AM

They are the Khazarian jews that originated from Togarmeh son of Magog who was the granson of Hazrat Nuh (as) thru Yafidh



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