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Question About The Shia Azan


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#1 Persian Mix

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 03:01 PM

(bismillah)
I WAS IN SCHOOL TODAY AND WE WERE HAVING A CONVERSATION ABOUT THE SHIA AZAN AND SUNNI AZAN. ONE OF MY SUNNI FRIENDS TOLD ME THAT IN THE SHIA AZAN HOW CAN YOU HAVE "ASHUTHU UN ALI UN WILI ULYAH" WHEN Allah HIMSELF SAID THAT YOU CANT CHANGE THE VERSUSE'S....THAN WHO CHANGED IT ;) ;) AND ALI WASNT BORN WHEN THE AZAN WAS GIVIN TO PROPHET MUHAMMAD pbuh SO HOW CAN WE HAVE THAT EXTRA PART IN OUR AZAN?...CAN SOMEONE TELL ME WHY WE ADDED THAT VERSE OR WAS IT ALREADY THERE ?? ;)

BIG QUESTIONS IS "WHY" "WHY"

#2 Slave of Ghazi Alamdar

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 03:12 PM

(bismillah)
I WAS IN SCHOOL TODAY AND WE WERE HAVING A CONVERSATION ABOUT THE SHIA AZAN AND SUNNI AZAN. ONE OF MY SUNNI FRIENDS TOLD ME THAT IN THE SHIA AZAN HOW CAN YOU HAVE "ASHUTHU UN ALI UN WILI ULYAH" WHEN Allah HIMSELF SAID THAT YOU CANT CHANGE THE VERSUSE'S....THAN WHO CHANGED IT ;) ;) AND ALI WASNT BORN WHEN THE AZAN WAS GIVIN TO PROPHET MUHAMMAD pbuh SO HOW CAN WE HAVE THAT EXTRA PART IN OUR AZAN?...CAN SOMEONE TELL ME WHY WE ADDED THAT VERSE OR WAS IT ALREADY THERE ?? ;)

BIG QUESTIONS IS "WHY" "WHY"

Bro ! I cant say much about Ali an Wali Ulah is shia Azan... may be some other learned shia brother/sister can explain it well... but can comment with confidence that even sunnis have innovations in Azan too.. The say Asslat o kharum minan noam in the Fajr Azan ... The prophet (pbuh) did not do so.. They have ommited Haya Ala khairil Amal from Azan where as during the days of prophet (pbuh) it was quite valid...And both of these innovations were introduced by their beloved Umar. Do they explanation for this ??

#3 MuslimGirl

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 03:13 PM

(salam) wa

This isn't part of the Quran, sister. It's the adhan. It's the call to prayers.
Secondly, the sunnis themselves have added to the adhan. They say "assalat kheir um minannaum" which if you look in the sahihs, is not mentioned when you look at the hadiths about the adhan.

As to for when it started, it was added because of all the atrocities towards the shia. Where it was not allowed to speak the name of Imam Ali (as) and the Imam (as) was cursed in every khutbah and it was broadcasted to the entire masses, so we added this part. It is not obligatory to recite this in the prayer call, it is just to show our identity. That, YES!, we are the lovers of the Ahlul-Bait (as)! Yes! We love and revere and accept the Imamat of Imam Ali (as).

Best wishes to you.

(salam)

#4 inuit

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 03:19 PM

Allah SAID THAT YOU CANT CHANGE THE VERSUSE'S
------ Azan is not verses -----

#5 Persian Mix

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 03:34 PM

so the shias changed it and the sunnis changed it....doenst that go against everything Allah has teached us.....Allah said that if we change it than we will have a seat in hell....and i dont want that :cry: .....so the shias and sunnis changed it....thats weird ;)

anyone else can give me a answer?

#6 Simba

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 04:07 PM

so the shias changed it and the sunnis changed it....doenst that go against everything Allah has teached us.....Allah said that if we change it than we will have a seat in hell....and i dont want that :cry: .....so the shias and sunnis changed it....thats weird ;)

anyone else can give me a answer?

salams

NOTE: ADHAN IS NOT VERSES, ITS SIMPLY A CALL TO PRAYERS. It simply reminds us (when we r busy with our daily life) tht its time for salah n therefore we shud go pray n not miss the awwal wakt (peak time) of salah.

Allahu akbar = god is great

ash hadu anna muhammada rasoolullah = I certify Mohammed is rasool (prophet).

ash hadu anna aliyun waiyullah ="I certify that Ali is Allah's wali (succesor)"

The third line is the identity of SHIA NE ALI (Followers of Ali) :D *subhanallah*

Prophet has said "whoever is enemy of Ali, is my enemy, and whoever is my enemy, is allahs enemy." *salawat*

In our adhan, we have praises to Allah (allahu akbar) n certification for his messenger n succesor. :D

w.salam

#7 The Antimason

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 04:22 PM

Can someone tell me the meaning of Azaan itself? As far as i know, it is a 'Call' to 'Prayers'..

Define Call....

Define Prayer....

#8 Abbas

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 04:26 PM

Salam Alaikum

AND ALI WASNT BORN WHEN THE AZAN WAS GIVIN TO PROPHET MUHAMMAD


Imam Ali Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã was not only born before the azan was given to the Prophet (S), but he was a grown man and the appointed vicegerent.

#9 inuit

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 04:30 PM

so the shias changed it and the sunnis changed it....doenst that go against everything Allah has teached us.....Allah said that if we change it than we will have a seat in hell....and i dont want that :cry: .....so the shias and sunnis changed it....thats weird ;)

anyone else can give me a answer?

same question to you... think about it

#10 Simba

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 04:33 PM

dude, forget sunnis..

I fail to understand why they have rejection on Ali ibn Abi talib's name..

They dont realise tht every year they leave their homes, families, spend alot of money, health, time n alot more to go to Mecca for Hajj (pilgrimage) just to do tawaaf (rotation) of the Birth place of Imam Ali (as) ( the khana e kaaba) :D *salawat*

All haters of ahlulbayt shud realise.. watever they do, wherever they go.. atleast once in a life time, they will come n do tawaaf of the birth place of imam Ali (as) which leads to their successfull atitude.. my my, we all muslims are like obliged to love ahlulbayt soo much.. (even though some pretend to hate them :D

Oh you, the unfollowers, until when will u run away from ahlulbayt?? :D

Allah says in sura e rahman "Fa bi ayyi a'ala irabbi kuma tukadhibaan" which means "Which then of the bounties of your lord shall you deny?" *subhanallah*

The history goes.. After Imam Ali (as) was born, prophet came into the ka'aba and took ali on his arms, n thts when Ali opened his eyes.. Prophet Said azan on ali's right ear n iqamah on his left.. thereafter he kissed alis tongue, by which all of the prophets attitude was transfered into Ali ... :D

Prophet said:
"Ana madinatul ilm wa aliyun babuha" = "I am te city of knwledge and Ali is its gate"

"Man kuntu mawla fahadha Aliyun Mawla" = Whoever's leader i am, Ali is his leader."

"The one who hates Ali, is hated by Allah and I. Whoever hates me, is hated by Allah and Ali. Whoever hates Allah, is hated by Ali and I."

"Whoever is enemy of Ali, is my enemy. Whoever is my enemy, is enemy of Allah." *salawat*

:D

w.salam

Edited by s4ever, 03 June 2004 - 11:30 PM.


#11 Scorpio

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 04:46 PM

(salam)

The Adhan is a beautiful thing. Bilal was the first and greatest of call prayer callers. I do the adhan at school, and I've tried many times to do it just like him, but never succeeded.

As far as I know, 'ash hadu anna aliyun waiyullah' is considered preferable to say in the adhan according to the shia, but it isn't compulsory. Also, 'haya ala khairal amel' was ommited out of the adhan by the sunnis. When doing the adhan among a shia and sunni prayer gathering, it's probably best to say the following adhan, as it is considered universal:

Allahu Akbar (4x)
Ashadu Allahilaleh Illalah (2x)
Ashadu ana Muhammad Arasoolallah (2x)
Hay alil saleh (2x)
Hay alil faleh (2x)
Allahu Akbar (4x)
Lahillaheh Illallah (1x)

#12 Socrates

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 04:46 PM

dude, forget sunnis..

I fail to understand why they have rejection on Ali ibn Abi talib's name..

They dont realise tht every they leave their homes, families, spend alot of money, health, time n alot more to go to Mecca for Hajj (pilgrimage) just to do tawaaf (rotation) of the Birth place of Imam Ali (as) ( the khana e kaaba) :D *salawat*

All haters of ahlulbayt shud realise.. watever they do, wherever they go.. atleast once in a life time, they will come n do tawaaf of the birth place of imam Ali (as) which leads to their successfull atitude.. my my, we all muslims are like obliged to love ahlulbayt soo much.. (even though some pretend to hate them <_< ) :D

Oh you, the unfollowers, until when will u run away from ahlulbayt?? :D

Allah says in sura e rahman "Fa bi ayyi a'ala irabbi kuma tukadhibaan" which means "Which then of the bounties of your lord shall you deny?" *subhanallah*

The history goes.. After Imam Ali (as) was born, prophet came into the ka'aba and took ali on his arms, n thts when Ali opened his eyes.. Prophet Said azan on ali's right ear n iqamah on his left.. thereafter he kissed alis tongue, by which all of the prophets attitude was transfered into Ali ... :D

Prophet said:
"Ana madinatul ilm wa aliyun babuha" = "I am te city of knwledge and Ali is its gate"

"Man kuntu mawla fahadha Aliyun Mawla" = Whoever's leader i am, Ali is his leader."

"The one who hates Ali, is hated by Allah and I. Whoever hates me, is hated by Allah and Ali. Whoever hates Allah, is hated by Ali and I."

"Whoever is enemy of Ali, is my enemy. Whoever is my enemy, is enemy of Allah." *salawat*

:D

w.salam

ALLAHUMA SALLE ALA MUHAMMADIN WA AALI MUHAMMAD :D :D :D

#13 Mahshar

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 05:00 PM

(bismillah)
I WAS IN SCHOOL TODAY AND WE WERE HAVING A CONVERSATION ABOUT THE SHIA AZAN AND SUNNI AZAN. ONE OF MY SUNNI FRIENDS TOLD ME THAT IN THE SHIA AZAN HOW CAN YOU HAVE "ASHUTHU UN ALI UN WILI ULYAH" WHEN Allah HIMSELF SAID THAT YOU CANT CHANGE THE VERSUSE'S....THAN WHO CHANGED IT ;) ;) AND ALI WASNT BORN WHEN THE AZAN WAS GIVIN TO PROPHET MUHAMMAD pbuh SO HOW CAN WE HAVE THAT EXTRA PART IN OUR AZAN?...CAN SOMEONE TELL ME WHY WE ADDED THAT VERSE OR WAS IT ALREADY THERE ?? ;)

BIG QUESTIONS IS "WHY" "WHY"

Bismillaah, Assalamu Alaykum

The Commander of the Believers, Imam Ali ibn ABb Talib, peace be on him, was one of those servants of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì whom He chose and honoured by giving them the responsibilities of the Message after His Prophet (saw). These servants are the trustees of the Prophet (saw), since each prophet has a trustee, and Imam Ali ibn Abi Talib, peace be on him, is the trustee of Prophet Muhammad (saw).

We favour him above all the Companions of the Prophet (saw) because Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì and His Messenger (saw) favoured him, and we have many proofs of that, some of them are deduced through logical reasoning, others are found in the holy Qur'an and Sunnah, and these proofs cannot be suspect, because they have been scrutinized, and proven right, by our own learned people (who wrote many books about the subject) and those of the Sunni Madhahibs.

Please pay special attention from here on to what I am trying to express. This is where I am getting to the main point;

The Umayyad regime worked very hard to cover this truth and fought Imam of the Guidance, Ali and his sons, peace be on them, whom they killed. They even ordered people, sometimes by force, to curse him, so his followers - may Allah bless them - all started to testify for him as being the friend of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì. No Muslim would curse the friend of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì in defiance of the oppressive authorities, so that the glory was to Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì, and to His Messenger (saw) and to all the believers. It also became an historical land mark across the generations so that they know the just cause of Ali, peace be on him, and the wrong doing of his enemies. Thus, our learned people continued to testify that Ali, peace be on him, is the friend of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì in their calls to prayer, as something which is commendable. There are many commendable things in the religious rites as well as in ordinary mundane dealings, and the Muslim will be rewarded for doing them, but not punished for leaving them aside.

For example, it is commendable for the Muslim to say after al-Shahadah "And I will testify that Heaven is true and Hell is true, and that Allah will resurrect people from their graves."

However this is not part of the original Adhan.

#14 zkassam

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 05:38 PM

(salam)

The Adhan is a beautiful thing. Bilal was the first and greatest of call prayer callers. I do the adhan at school, and I've tried many times to do it just like him, but never succeeded.

As far as I know, 'ash hadu anna aliyun waiyullah' is considered preferable to say in the adhan according to the shia, but it isn't compulsory. Also, 'haya ala khairal amel' was ommited out of the adhan by the sunnis. When doing the adhan among a shia and sunni prayer gathering, it's probably best to say the following adhan, as it is considered universal:

Allahu Akbar (4x)
Ashadu Allahilaleh Illalah (2x)
Ashadu ana Muhammad Arasoolallah (2x)
Hay alil saleh (2x)
Hay alil faleh (2x)
Allahu Akbar (4x)
Lahillaheh Illallah (1x)

Salaam Alaikum,

"The Adhan is a beautiful thing. Bilal was the first and greatest of call prayer callers. I do the adhan at school, and I've tried many times to do it just like him, but never succeeded."

How do you know how Bilal said the Adhan? Were you there? j/k j/k

But one thing I disagree with is removing the name of Imam Ali (as) from the Adhan because it's a Shia/Sunni gathering. too often have I been to, or heard of, mixed gatherings where we removed the name of our Mawla just to please the Sunnis. In fact, those members who are from Toronto and attend the Jaffari Islamic Centre will tell you that when the centre first opened, we didn't take the name of Imam Ali (as) in our Adhan, just to make things 'easier'

I say keep it in. If they don't like it, tough luck

#15 Salih_A_A_Baity

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 05:51 PM

(bismillah)

(salam)

As far as I know the "Aliyin wa liyullah" part was added by Bilal (ra) at the event of ghadir. After Imam Ali (as) was named wali over the believers he (hazrat Bilal) asked the Prophet of Islam if he could ad Aliyun waliyullah to the adhan and the Prophet pbuh (and his holy progeny) permitted it. and so it was. afterwards when abu bakir came into power hazrat Bilal left Medina and lived else where never to return :cry:

Edited by Salih_A_A_Baity, 03 June 2004 - 05:57 PM.


#16 The Antimason

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 05:56 PM

Call to prayers can also be in English.

Prayers can also be in Englsih.

#17 The Antimason

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 05:58 PM

Suppose my name is ' John' and i am a muslim, is it a shirk (according to sunnis) and haraam(according to shias) to have such a name?

#18 Salih_A_A_Baity

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 06:14 PM

Suppose my name is ' John' and i am a muslim, is it a shirk (according to sunnis) and haraam(according to shias) to have such a name?

no

#19 The Antimason

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 06:32 PM

thanks @Salih...

What about the other remarks :-

1) Call to prayers can also be in English.

2) Prayers can also be in English.

Right or wrong? Suppose if Prophet(sal) was born in an American culture, wouldn't the Quran have been in English? (or in any other culture for that matter with its unique language)

#20 rahat

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Posted 04 June 2004 - 01:10 AM

Wrong. You cannot simply apply blanket logic to whatever you please. The obligatory prayers are *required* to be in Arabic, whereas other prayers are not required to be in Arabic. Do you not understand the concept of "lost in translation"? Your obligatory prayer is literally lost in translation if you attempt to read it in english.

There are no "if" statements about the Prophet, Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì did everything specifically on purpose. Arabic was created specifically for the Quran, not the other way around.

the Prophet of Allah encountered different peoples in his time, do you think the "language barrier" never came up? If you read hadith, you will see that he hes declared what types of prayers can (and cannot be) in the native language. You can't simply "reason" it out without all the facts.

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rahat

Edited by rahat, 04 June 2004 - 01:12 AM.


#21 Abu Abdallah

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Posted 04 June 2004 - 02:38 AM

Assalamu Alaikum,
Brother Rahat is correct. While we should know the meanings of the prayers in our original tongue, the obligatory prayers must be in Arabic. The liturgical and mystical power of the Quran exists only in Arabic, while the meaning should be known and translated into every language. Just like the Torah must be in Hebrew.

Catholism moved away from its liturgical language after the second Vatican Council and affectively dilluted the tradition for the sake of making it more "accessible". This accessibility seeks to placate the masses while popularizing and vulgarizing the essential and literal message(s). A religion ceases to be a religion without its original rites and rituals. -That is a way of connecting to God. In Islam, God revealed himself in Arabic.

If people can't learn the seven Arabic verses that make up the Fatihah and three or four more that make up another verse then maybe Islam is not the right religion for them. Islam is a religion of knowledge and learning (Provided someone is mentally capable of learning and memorizing).

"Seek knowledge even unto China." -Muhammad peace and blessings be upon him

"Are those who know and those who do not know equal?" -Quran

As far as names are concerned, many of the prophets in the Quran were most likely called by their Hebrew names and not the Arabic versions that we have in the Quran (23 of the 25). People should go by whatever name they were given by their parents provided it is not something like Abd al-Shams which means servant of the Sun (a pre-Islamic name of many Arabs). Some Muslim reverts take on Arabic names because of Western cultural poverty and the pride we have for Islam, but this is not a requirement.

Take care,
Abu Abdallah

#22 Scorpio

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Posted 04 June 2004 - 05:22 AM

How do you know how Bilal said the Adhan?  Were you there?  j/k j/k


Have you seen the old film 'Al-Risaleh' or 'The Message'? In the commentary it said that the adhan of Bilal was immitated by others and passed on. To me, it sounds quite simple yet authentic.

#23 Ibn al-Hussain

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Posted 04 June 2004 - 07:04 AM

and on the other hand, it is not wajib to say that...

#24 GHULAAM E ABBAS

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Posted 04 June 2004 - 08:27 AM

tell ur sunni friend that shia dont compare there namaz with sleep

#25 zuber baig

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 01:36 AM






Dear Friends,

Lets not discuss about sunnis or shias or any other sect. Can anyone tell me, when Allah said in Quran, that "Oh you who believe, do not create differences among yourself, do not take any other creed or cast among yourself." Do not divide yourself in firqa, then why muslims have divided themselves in firqa?

2ndly, the topic is of Azaan, which is the call to the prayers. Tell me, did prophet muhammad offered prayers for 5 times? If he did so, why didn't he mentioned in Quran for 5 time, however on contrary it says, god is kind to those who are always in prayer "Salatut-daiman", what is this type of salat??

3rdly, there is another salat, which is known as "Hafizzu alysalawat" what type of salat is that.?? What type of salat did Hazrat Ruknuddin tola offered, coz as per the sayings , he sat down in zikr of god for 22 yrs in same position. In addition to that, Hazrat Khawaja fariduddin kanj-e-shakar, hung himself to the tree upside down for 15 yrs, as the per the mention of this type of salat in Quran. What salat did Hazrat Owais al Qarni offered, coz he used to stay in basra and never met prophet and still he was among highly respected one after Maula Ali in sight of Prophet.??

4thly, If prophet did offer salat(namaz) as per muslims believe, for 5 times, what did he reside in prayers, because the quran wasn't completed at the time when musims believe that namaz was given to Prophet. Neither can prophet offer the prayer of Tarawih in Ramadhan (because the quran wasn't a complete book by then). If he recited Surah al fatiha in namaz : lets say for an instance, that he reached the verse saying : "Ihdinas siratal Mustaqim" , what do you take the meaning as, coz many of the muslims, say " Oh god guide us to the right path" some translates it to "Oh god, show us the right way" ... If prophet said that, then wasnt he sure that he was on the right was, or did not god guide him, that he happen to be saying this over and over each time in namaz.??

Thank you. (I know i have raised too many question, but all corresponds to one topic, whether prophet offered the salat or no for 5 times??, coz i believe, that if he did and then if i have to follow his sunnah, then each time when i offer One namaz either fajr or zohr or asr whatever, each time i offer one farz salat, i miss one sunnah of prophet).


PS: Khwaja Banda Nawaz Gesu daraz(R.A) said, in his book that " Namaz padna shirk hai, aur nahi padna kufr". Means, To offer Namaz five times is Shirk(Association of some one else with god) and to not offer is (Disbelieving).



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