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The Quran isnt clear and understandable to all as you stated

44:58:

Verily, We have made This Quran easy in the tongue, in order that they may give heed.

Can you also give me your translations of 78: 6-7: and 15:19:

I would like to see how your crafty scholars got around that one.

Edited by stinky

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Selam alaycom,

Easy on the tongue means easy to recite, not easy to understand.

فَإِنَّمَا يَسَّرْنَاهُ بِلِسَانِكَ لَعَلَّهُمْ يَتَذَكَّرُونَ {58}

[shakir 44:58] So have We made it easy in your tongue that they may be mindful.

[Yusufali 44:58] Verily, We have made this (Qur'an) easy, in thy tongue, in order that they may give heed.

[Pooya/Ali Commentary 44:58]

Aqa Mahdi Puya says:

The Quran is easy to recite even if the reciter does not know the meaning of what he is reciting because its rhythm not only makes misreading improbable but carries off the soul to a higher spiritual plane. To get to its deepest meaning reference to the wisdom of the Ahl ul Bayt is essential.

Here is the commentary on the other verses you asked for:

أَلَمْ نَجْعَلِ الْأَرْضَ مِهَادًا {6}

[shakir 78:6] Have We not made the earth an even expanse?

[Yusufali 78:6] Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse,

[Pooya/Ali Commentary 78:6]

Refer to the commentary of Rad: 3 and 4; Ha Mim: 9 and 10; Hijr: 19; Nahl: 15; Muminun: 17; Furqan: 61 ; Ahzab: 46; Ya Sin: 33 to 36; Talaq: 12; Mulk: 3 and Nuh: 15 and 16 for the expanse of the earth, mountains, seven heavens and the sun.

The spacious expanse of the earth, the rain and the abundant harvests, the succession of night and day, the firmaments above with their splendid lights are the signs of Allah with which man is affiliated. These point to a future life. The universe and the laws governing the universe have been created to serve man in his physical, mental and spiritual endeavours on the basis of which Allah shall sort out good and evil on an appointed day with justice and authority as mentioned in subsequent verses.

وَالْجِبَالَ أَوْتَادًا {7}

[shakir 78:7] And the mountains as projections (thereon)?

[Yusufali 78:7] And the mountains as pegs?

[Pooya/Ali Commentary 78:7] (see commentary for verse 6)

وَخَلَقْنَاكُمْ أَزْوَاجًا {8}

وَالأَرْضَ مَدَدْنَاهَا وَأَلْقَيْنَا فِيهَا رَوَاسِيَ وَأَنبَتْنَا فِيهَا مِن كُلِّ شَيْءٍ مَّوْزُونٍ {19}

[shakir 15:19] And the earth-- We have spread it forth and made in it firm mountains and caused to grow in it of every suitable thing.

[Yusufali 15:19] And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable; and produced therein all kinds of things in due balance.

[Pooya/Ali Commentary 15:19] (no commentary available for this verse)

Spread out like a carpet doesn't mean the earth is flat. مَدَدْنَاهَا means spread as in 'extended' you can say: maddet yedi, I extended my hand.

Peace,

Um Ali

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Oh Cheeee-rist, that is absolutely rediculous. Did you guys get jewish lawyers to translate the Quran for you?

1) It doesn't say its "easy on the tongue" it says its "easy IN tongue." And it doesn't say that its easy in tongue so that you'll be able to recite it, your scholar has said that. The Quran says that its easy in tongue so the common-folk may give HEED. To anybody with half a brain, it clearly means that Allah's message from heaven on how to live ones live is to be clearly understandable to all so that they may heed it. You seem to think it means that it won't hurt their tongue to recite passages that they don't comprehend. That is absurd. You're being completely dishonest.

2) :D :D :D Again with the jewish lawyers. So when it says that the earth has been extended like a carpet, what it really is saying is that the earth is a sphere. A sphere shaped carpet. Like its completely unreasonable to suggest that the seventh century arabs thought that the world was flat and then blatantly described it as being as such. I'd be interested to see how you've interpreted ;) 67:5, 37:6-8:, 21: 32: , and 31:10: .

3)Hmmm... the universe eh? Can you give me the correct translations of these? 7:54:, 10:3:, 11:7:, 25:29, 41:9 :, 41:10:, and 41:12:.

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Selam alaycom,

I don't know why I'm wasting my time replying to someone named stinky. www.al-islam.org/quran. Seek and ye shall find.

I worship not what ye worship

Nor ye worship what I worship....

Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion

Sura Al Kafiroon, Ayahs 2, 3 and 6.

Peace,

Um Ali

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It should be a joy for you to sift through the quran, and it should never be "a waste of time" to explain the quran to non believers. Cannot brother stinky also benefit from the wisdom of the devotional team?

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Selam alaycom,

It wouldn't be a waste of time if you were sincere, but from your remarks above, you aren't. You have benefitted though: I told you easily how to find it yourself in the click of the mouse, no sifting required. Good luck.

Peace,

Um Ali

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No I'm actually quite serious. I think its odd that this forum is full of threads that seek to show that the trinity isnt in the bible and that jesus in fact is not god, yet you can't handle the same scrutiny of the quran.

Surely if the quran is god's book (perfect) and it was written in common language so that common folk could understand, you would be able to answer my simple questions.

Why can't anybody explain to me why the quran says things like meteors are stars, when modern science tells us they are not. I could see why those who wrote the quran would think that; afterall they look like stars. But wouldn't Allah know better?

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A metaphor? How so? A star-missile shooting at a Jinn to keep him away from heaven is a metaphor for space debris burning through the ozone layer? Riiight, just like a carpet is a good metaphor for a sphere shaped object. Is the Quran full of metaphors then? Are Jinns metaphors too? I don't see how anybody could claim to have the correct interpretation of the quran at this point. I bet that if I read the whole thing and interpreted it in its literal sense, I would have an entirely unique interpretation of it. :rolleyes:

Islam teaches us to be objective and have an open mind.

I think I'm going to reinterpret the Quran and start a new pure strain of Islam. I will get back to the core teachings of Allah and reject all the men who have come after mohammed. I will liberate the quran from the influence of the culture of the arabs, persians, pakistanis, etc. I think this new form will be more palatable to western reverts because I'm so attractive and charismatic. You guys will still be able to claim that Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, but I will be stealing all of your converts. We will be based in Ireland.

Edited by stinky

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Who would have thought that it would be my destiny to be the orginator of one of the 73 claims to the truth as fortold in the Quran?

Seriously, compare my interpretation of:

[shakir 44:58] So have We made it easy in your tongue that they may be mindful.

[Yusufali 44:58] Verily, We have made this (Qur'an) easy, in thy tongue, in order that they may give heed.

with brother jlainqatar's and ask yourself, who's is more accurate?

Edited by stinky

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Selam alaycom,

Stinky, I'm a sister. You will find lots of the answers to your questions about Quran and science at www.harunyayha.com.

Peace,

Um Ali

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Might i add to this.... catholic priests have a certain fondness...

(bismillah)

(salam)

Since this kind of behaviour violates several principles of Catholic belief and practise, I consider it completely disgraceful and shameful that anyone should hold it against the Catholic Church as if it were a part of Catholic doctrine.

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SURA LII:24

"And there shall wait on them young boys of their own, as fair as virgin pearls."

SURA LXXVI:19

"They shall be attended by boys graced with eternal youth, who will seem like scattered pearls to the beholders."

...

Regardless, both versions comment on the beauty of eternally young boys that men get to have as their own while describing heaven.  I suppose you still dont see my point of view.

Actually, these boys appear to be serving more than just men. According to the passage from which you snatched each singular verse, entire families will be served by these heavenly boys.

[shakir 52:21, 25-28] And (as for) those who believe and their offspring follow them in faith, We will unite with them their offspring and We will not diminish to them aught of their work; every man is responsible for what he shall have wrought. ... And some of them shall advance towards others questioning each other. Saying: Surely we feared before on account of our families: But Allah has been gracious to us and He has saved us from the punishment of the hot wind: Surely we called upon Him before: Surely He is the Benign, the Merciful.

Furthermore, nothing more then visual pleasure has been mentioned here. In the second passage especially, they seem to be covered up in clothing: "Upon them shall be garments of fine green silk and thick silk interwoven with gold, and they shall be adorned with bracelets of silver, and their Lord shall make them drink a pure drink" (76:21). In erotic poetry, other pleasures would have been mentioned or alluded to.

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My point(s) is(are):

1)  Pederastry, which is evident in classical arabic poetry, is also evident in the arabic version of heaven as stated in the Quran.

2)  Your interpretation of the Quran is more concerned with bringing it in line with modern liberal attitudes than producing the most accurate translation.

3)  Islamic societies are patriarchal and male dominant.  I know that men and women are different, but women's "place" in Islamic society will leave an intelligent woman, as she grows older, intellectualy unsatisfied.

1) See above.

2) If what you claim were true, then we would all love homosexuals and think them to be normal, according to the interpretation of the Qur'an and ahadith by certain modernists. I don't think that I need to tell you the reality of the situation.

3) Strange, then, that according to Islamic law it is the man who needs to provide for a woman from crib to coffin with all of her needs from clothing to food to shelter - whether it be her father, her husband, her brother, or her son, or any male in the series of relatives established by Islamic law who will be responsible for her welfare. On top of this, anything that she earns belongs to her alone, and she can save it, buy anything that she wants with it, or bury it in the front yard for all that she cares. No man can tell her what to do. She is not required to lift a finger to do an iota of housework. She could even be paid for her housework - as is the LAW in Iran. She is not required to provide anything at all for her children. Her husband (or their father, in divorced households) provides everything. She can even demand compensation for nursing them. A woman can write a marriage contract that mirrors a prison sentence for the man, and if he really wants to marry ehr, he would have to abide by it. A woman is not only entitled to an education, there are certain things that she is actually *required* to learn. If her father, husband, or male relative doens't know the information that she needs to know, then thy will be obligated to get it for her in whatever way possible - whether it is by books, teachers, or any other method. Of course, we women do have requirements. We have one obligation to our husbands. We have five daily prayers. We have to fast one month of the year. We need to make hajj once in a lifetime. There may be other incidental requirements.

However, these animals who lock their wives in the prison called home, take away all means of communication from her, prevent her from being with her children, force her into servitude, etc. are acting with a strictness and harshness that is antithetical to Islam and very possibly illegal in the country in which they reside. Those who go further and refuse to provide for their wives, verbally abuse them, and beat them up are actually criminals according to Islamic law and should be treated as such.

When a Catholic blow up a federal building in Oklahoma City, I see no need to consider all Catholics as unpatriotic violent militants. Neither do I see he need to consider all Muslim men as ruthless misogynistic boars just because a few of them are ***h*l*s.

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Oh Cheeee-rist...

Have respect for a sinless, infallible Prophet of God the One, the Almighty, Who annointed said Prophet to broadcast the message of the sincere and proper worship of the One True God.

Did you guys get jewish lawyers to translate the Quran for you?

The religion of Islam does not tolerate racism. Neither do I. NEITHER SHOULD THE MODERATORS HERE.

1) It doesn't say its "easy on the tongue" it says its "easy IN tongue."

What sister Jlain said was true.

Selam alaycom,

Easy on the tongue means easy to recite, not easy to understand.

فَإِنَّمَا يَسَّرْنَاهُ بِلِسَانِكَ لَعَلَّهُمْ يَتَذَكَّرُونَ {58}

It is "on", not "in". The word for "in" is "fi". The word that is used in this ayah is "bi" (a complicated participle). What is spoken of here falls on the tongue or rests on the tongue or proceeds from the tongue. It is not referred to here as an innate characteristic of the tongue or the owner of that tongue.

And it doesn't say that its easy in tongue so that you'll be able to recite it, your scholar has said that. The Quran says that its easy in tongue so the common-folk may give HEED.

(I moved this to another post to accommodate a heavy usage of text.)

2) So when it says that the earth has been extended like a carpet, what it really is saying is that the earth is a sphere. A sphere shaped carpet.

You never laid out a carpet on the ground? It lay flat, didn't it? Maybe this is becaue the earth is so huge that the curvature of the surface is not steep. Of course, that does not take away from the fact that the earth is round. Also, remember that the continents of the earth have been separating from each other since the day that they used to be one land mass.

"And He it is Who created the night and the day and the sun and the moon; all (orbs) travel along swiftly in their celestial spheres" (21:33, trans. Shakir). Ibn Abbas says: A falaka like that of a spinning wheel. "(He alone is the) Lord of the two easts and the Lord of the two wests. Which then of the bounties of thy Lord will ye two deny?" (55:17-18, trans: S. V. Mir Ahmed Ali) Two Easts and two Wests can come about only when the earth is round. When the sun rises over one region it sets in another, and when it sets in one sphere it rises in another.

There has also been discussion of the relation of the Arabic word for ostrich egg (dahya) and the word for "extend" in the mentioned ayah ("dahaha").

3)Hmmm... the universe eh? Can you give me the correct translations of these? 7:54:, 10:3:, 11:7:, 25:29, 41:9 :, 41:10:, and 41:12:.

It looks almost as if you have been hanging out with the wahhabis. I recognise some of those passages from their assertions that Allah sits in a throne above the heavens. Wa iya`budhu. Sister Jlain gave you a website. You can find a translation of the verses there (I prefer Shakir, if that makes any difference, as well as the Pooya/Ali that I own). Paste in the verses and emphasise what troubles you about them.

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And it doesn't say that its easy in tongue so that you'll be able to recite it, your scholar has said that.  The Quran says that its easy in tongue so the common-folk may give HEED.

The Qur'an does contain complex language that often needs to be explained. Many part of the Qur'an are indeed clear and easiliy understood at first glance. However, other parts have several layers of meaning, and many verses contain words that have several meanings. While these two complexities might occur in the same places, they do not necessarily have to. Any verse in the Qur'an can have an immediately apparent meaning as well as other meanings that one might reach with enough study of Arabic language sciences, Qur'an commentary, the sciences of ahadith, and other Islamic sciences.

Below is a passage, along with its commentary, that speaks about the nature of Allah and the Qur'an. If it gets too lengthy, skip to the verse 3:7 and its commentary. The reader will find that this commentary often refers to the verses or commentaries of other passages. This is one of the qualities of the Qur'an: its parts often explain each other. Another uniqueness of the Qur'an is how it repeats itself, while its repetitions might have slightly different applications or even meanings. As is demonstrated below, if one were to simply repeat every doubled commentary for each occurrance of a concept, the commentary would go on and on without end. Self-referencing or cross-referencing becomes necessary.

[shakir 3:1] Alif Lam Mim.

[Pooya/Ali Commentary 3:1]

Alif Lam Mim are letters of the Arabic alphabet. They are known as huruf muqatta-at, letters used as abbreviations for words which have a definite meaning of sublime and profound nature known only to Allah, His last prophet, and His Ahl ul Bayt, the true divinely chosen successors, the holy Imams. Particularly, these types of symbolic alphabets, used in some of the surahs of the Quran, as a part of those surahs, are beyond the comprehension of (even) the most learned intellectuals. It is strictly prohibited to use imagination and discretion in finding out its purport and meaning.

There are six surahs...which begin with ALIF, LAM, MIM. The[y]...are [al Baqarah,] Ali Imran, Ankabut, Rum, Luqman and Sajdah.

Aqa Mahdi Puya says:

Many interpretations have been forwarded and manipulated by some commentators, but they are all based upon conjecture, devoid of any definite authority. According to the holy Imams these letters are a means of reaching the higher realms of true knowledge, available in the verses of the Quran, but the domain of sublime confidences are reserved only for the chosen representatives of Allah.

[shakir 3:2] Allah, (there is) no god but He, the Everliving, the Self-subsisting by Whom all things subsist

[Pooya/Ali Commentary 3:2]

Refer to the commentary of verse 255 of al Baqarah for "Allah! There is no god save He, the ever-living, the self-subsisting."

"Allah is He beside whom there is no god" - please refer to the commentary of verse 1 of al Fatihah for the word "Allah".

Allah

Aqa Mahdi Puya says:

There is no fitting equivalent, in the English or any other language, to convey and express the essential essence of the word Allah. In the earlier times the idea of a "supreme being" was conveyed to man by the prophets of Allah, but due to the general low level of knowledge, a single word, containing the all-embracing sense and significance of the supreme, universal and absolute being, was not made known.

"Father" may imply creativeness but, in no way, refers to compassion, beneficence and mercy. The word father implies that the father of the universe had a father and a mother who gave birth to him, because it does not indicate that the father of the heaven and the earth had no father or mother to bring him into being. It also fails to establish his uncreated self-existing eternity, unless explanatory words are added. The word Allah is a compound of the definite article al and the noun ilah, meaning "that God". The literal meaning of ilah is "puzzling" if waliha is the source, and "referred to" if it is derived from aliha; in either sense, it can be used for the supreme being unto whom man must surrender.

Known to every one, there is only one universal ultimate whom all human beings devotedly worship; and upon whom they depend and rely. He is undefinable, beyond the reach of human intelligence, unknowable to knowledge, unimaginable, yet recognised by one and all.

Imam Jafar bin Muhammad al Sadiq pointed to the spirit and vision of the word Allah to an atheist, in the course of a discussion. He said: "When you are in a ship, sailing in the middle of an ocean, and a wind-storm comes on from every side, and there is no conceivable means of rescue, yet, in this hopeless situation, you make efforts, in hope of deliverance; this ultimate faith is Allah, referred to by Allah in verse 22 of Yunus."

Aqa Mahdi Puya says:

The word Allah points to that which is already in the consciousness, but cannot be arrested by comprehension, or conceived mentally. It is universal, because it is connected with the whole as well as with the part. Whether the word Allah is a proper noun or a common noun, because of the article al, is a solvable controversy. The common noun ilah, appropriating definite sense with the definite article al, referring to that which is universally known and recognised by every conscious being, unconfinable to form or concept, never to be two or more save one, becomes a proper noun.

So it is concised in the word Allah, giving it the unique unity of the sense of a proper noun. It must be noted that as the absolute can never be perceived by consciousness, so it cannot be defined by any name. One can refer to Him by personal pronouns, of which "He" (huwa) is the most suitable. The word Allah stands for the absolute self, the greatest name (ism azam), the one perfect total of all good and excellence with no defect.

In contemporary commentaries it is speculated that the word Allah might have been derived from the Hebrew uluhim. Allahumma is closer to uluhim than Allah, because the infidels, very intimate associates of the Jews, were more familiar with Allahumma than Allah, which was a new development. At any event what has been said earlier is further substantiated by the argument put forward to indicate the etymological development of the word.

In the process of evolution, the intellect of man began to make adjustments in the man-god relationship. He had been bowing in adoration to the powerful, useful, harmful, or unintelligible manifestations of nature which, step by step, developed into worship of imaginary deities. As the pantheon of man-made gods grew, man, in desperation, began to seek a supreme being, over the heads of the mini-gods, serving the chief to administer the destiny of man, in one way or other. So gradually man started to seek a supreme being with all comprehensive authority. The word Allah, more suitable than the other words, became popular among the people.

The two possible words ilah is derived from, are alaha and walah meaning astonishment and wonder. The word Allah is formed by adding the definite article al to alah, which means the one who is beyond the reach of conception, or even imagination, and out of the range of knowledge.

The quest for knowledge about Allah comes to a close when the seeker in astonishment confesses that with all his sincere efforts supported by intellect and insight he cannot know Him.

Imam Muhammad bin Ali al Baqir said: Observe and examine the creation of Allah, do not pry into the being of Allah because no one knows what He is except He.

Imam Ali ibn abi Talib said: He! O He whom none knows what He is, nor how He is, nor where He is, nor in what respect He is, but He. (Al Mashlul)

The name Allah stands for the supreme one who encompasses everything in the universe but nothing can encompass Him. He is the ever-living allknowing almighty. He has no equal. There is none comparable to Him. He has no associate or partner. All goodly names and ideal attributes belong to Him. He owns and controls that which is in the heavens and that which is in the earth and that which is in between them, the kingdom of the universe. It is only His will that is done. He is the all-seeing, all-hearing, all-just, all-merciful. He is eternal, infinite and essential. He is the first, the immediate and the ultimate.

The name Allah is called the ismi-dhat, the name of the absolute self, the only essential being owning all the divine attributes. The other names called asma ul husna are appellative and descriptive, relating to various attributes, each separately applicable according to His dealings with His creation.

He is Allah, the creator, the maker, the fashioner. His are the asma ul husna (the excellent names), (Surah al Hashr 59:24)

The word Allah has been divinely chosen. The religious-minded know fully well what wonderful efficacy the name of Allah has.

Not only the denial of false gods, but also the belief in the absolute unity of Allah without any complexity of any kind, in any sense, in His ever-living and self-subsisting supreme being, is the first and the foremost doctrine of Islam. Complexity suggests an interdependence among the components which means the "whole" depends upon the performance of the components. All the prophets of Allah, before the Holy Prophet, also preached the unity of Allah, but the perfect unity made known through the Holy Prophet could not be presented to the people of earlier times because their intellect and perception had not developed enough to understand the ever-living and self-subsisting being of Allah. The following words, spoken by Isa, are quoted as an example: There is still much that I could say to you, but the burden would be too great for you now. However, when he comes who is the spirit of truth, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but will tell only what he hears; and he will make known to you the things that are coming. (John 16: 12 and 13).

Every prophet of Allah preached the unity of Allah. The idea of trinity was not given by Isa. It is an after-thought of the Christian church. Please read the following quotations from the Old and the New Testaments.

Old Testament:

God spoke, and these were His words: "I am the Lord your God who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. You shall have no other god to set against me. You shall not make a carved image for yourself nor the likeness of anything in the heavens above, or on the earth below, or in the waters under the earth". (Exodus 20:1-4).

Hear O Israel, the Lord is our Lord, One Lord. (Deut 6:4)

"I am the Lord, the Lord is my name; I will not give my glory to another god, nor my praise to any idol." (Isaiah 42: 8)

Thus says the Lord, Israel's king, the Lord of hosts, his ransomer: "I am the first and I am the last, and there is no god but me." (Isaiah 44: 6)

"I am the Lord, there is no other; there is no god beside me." "I am the Lord, there is no other." "There is no god but Me; there is no god other than I." "I am God, there is no other." (Isaiah 45: 5, 18, 21, 22).

"I am God, there is no other." (Isaiah 46:9)

"I am He; I am the first, I am the last also. (Isaiah 48:12)

New Testament:

A false god has no existence in the real world. There is no god but one. Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom all beings comes. (1 Corinthians 8: 4 and 6)

One Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in all. (Ephesians 4: 5 and 6).

Prophet after prophet came and awakened man step by step and degree by degree. Finally the Holy Prophet, the brightest light, was sent to expose and explain the ultimate truth, as promised by Allah, to enlighten the human mind and heart with the knowledge through which man can become aware of the Lord God, but comprehends only what his power of contemplation can bear.

It is reported that there are three kinds of existence:

(1) WAJIB UL WUJUD

The self-existing existence. The primal cause. There can never be any effect without a cause. The universe, therefore, was created by the self-existing creator, the primal cause.

(2) MUMKIN UL WUJUD

The creatures or created beings whose creation is possible only if the creator so wills.

(3) MUMTANI UL WUJUD

The impossible existence. The existence of another being like Allah is not possible because there cannot be two equals in the sense of oneness. If there are two equals in this sense, then there is no meaning in their being two, separated from each other. They must be one. If there are two such beings then there must be a dividing factor which makes the two as two and maintains their two separate entities, in which case the dividing factor will be the wajib ul wujud, therefore, such an existence is neither possible nor real.

Wajib ul wujud, therefore, means the self-existing existence of the ever-living and self-subsisting creator. To maintain His self-existing existence He must be an omnipotent authority who not only owns absolute knowledge of the existence but also the will that does what it wills. His control is absolute. His attributes are His self, inseparable from Him from any point of view or in any imaginable meaning or sense, as the meaning is inseparable from a word or as equiangularity is inseparable from an equilateral triangle. As the limited knowledge of the finite being cannot conceive of anything without referring to its attributes, we give names to the attributes of Allah, with the help of our visualisation, to have a suggestive idea of His absolute existence. Therefore, the Shia school holds it as a cardinal doctrine of faith not to think of any of His attributes as a separate entity from His existence. All the attributes of Allah are one absolute unity, because, if they are not, then it would mean complexity, which negates the absolute independence of the omnipotent authority. His existence means His authority, His authority means His knowledge, and likewise all His attributes are so linked together that they are one indivisible unity. Allah is a transcendental reality. He is unknowable. He is an infinite being, beyond the conceivability of our finite consciousness. He is inconceivable. He is hayyul qayyum, the ever-living, the self-subsisting (Ali Imran: 2; Ta Ha: 111, Mumin: 65).

Imam Ali says: O He! | O He whom none knows what He is, | nor how He is, | nor where He is, | nor in what respect He is; | except He. (Dua al-Mashlul)

Aqa Mahdi Puya says:

Qayyum is a magnified form of the adjective qayam - standing, lasting, enduring. It implies He who stands by Himself, and all others stand because of His (eternal) endurance. His relation to His creatures is like the source of light to the rays of the light, or like the mind to the concepts, not like the relation of an architect or a builder to a construction he builds. It is exactly as Ali ibna abi Talib has said-"Every thing stands by means of Him". He is the self-subsisting everlasting, therefore, He is the first and the last, and the apparent and the hidden (Hadid 57:2-3); and He is the knower of all things, and He is with everything but is not computed with anything (Mujadilah 58:7; Ma'idah 5:73).

While trying to visualise His attributes, it is necessary not to be misled by the finite inferences. His activity does not at all mean movement to perform an act by employing energy as we do. Awareness of His attributes, based upon reason and contemplation, may appear pure and perfect to us, but, in fact, it remains a shadow of the reality which transcends all faculties of comprehension.

Not only the denial of false gods, but also the belief in the absolute unity of Allah without any complexity of any kind, in any sense, in His ever-living and self-subsisting supreme being, is the first and the foremost doctrine of Islam. Complexity suggests an interdependence among the components which means the "whole" depends upon the performance of the components. All the prophets of Allah, before the Holy Prophet, also preached the unity of Allah, but the perfect unity made known through the Holy Prophet could not be presented to the people of earlier times because their intellect and perception had not developed enough to understand the ever-living and self-subsisting being of Allah. The following words, spoken by Isa, are quoted as an example: There is still much that I could say to you, but the burden would be too great for you now. However, when he comes who is the spirit of truth, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but will tell only what he hears; and he will make known to you the things that are coming. (John 16:12-13).

Aqa Mahdi Puya says:

Qayyum is a magnified form of the adjective qayam - standing, lasting, enduring. It implies He who stands by Himself, and all others stand because of His (eternal) endurance. His relation to His creatures is like the source of light to the rays of the light, or like the mind to the concepts, not like the relation of an architect or a builder to a construction he builds. It is exactly as Ali ibna abi Talib has said-"Every thing stands by means of Him". He is the self-subsisting everlasting, therefore, He is the first and the last, and the apparent and the hidden (Hadid 57:2-3); and He is the knower of all things, and He is with everything but is not computed with anything (Mujadilah 58:7; Ma'idah 5:73).

While trying to visualise His attributes, it is necessary not to be misled by the finite inferences. His activity does not at all mean movement to perform an act by employing energy as we do. Awareness of His attributes, based upon reason and contemplation, may appear pure and perfect to us, but, in fact, it remains a shadow of the reality which transcends all faculties of comprehension.

Hayy, the ever-living, and qayyum, the self-subsisting, are the two attributes of Allah which break up and blot out the absurd doctrine of the divinity of Jesus Christ. He, who did not have an existence before his creation, like any other mortal, was brought into being by Allah, therefore, cannot be hayy, the everliving; and also he cannot be qayyum, the self-subsisting, because, according to the Christians, he was crucified.

Ibna Ishaq says that verses 3 to 80 of this surah were revealed about the Christians of Najran whom the Holy Prophet with his Ahl ul Bayt confronted in a spiritual contest known as the event of mubahilah (see commentary of verse 61 of this surah).

A great deal of metaphysical nonsense, based on conjecture and speculation, is put forward by the Christians in support of their claim, yet they themselves do not understand the doctrine of divinity of Jesus, which they take as true without examination or proof. Moreover, there is no consensus among their theologians. The most popular belief is triune, three in one, or a trinity in unity-God is a spiritual organism, having living components which can be called organs only so long as they remain united and interrelated to each other in the whole, therefore, God is one but has components which perform separate functions. Jesus has a mysterious double nature which makes him a member of the trinity. The idea of trinity or the doctrine of divinity of Jesus was not given by prophet Isa. Please refer to the quotations of the Old and the New Testaments given in the commentary of verse 255 of al Baqarah.

All organisms are finite. To function in a harmonious whole the components must be interdependent. There must be an omnipotent will or a primal cause to keep the diverse components together, without being disunited, in order to let them work in harmony. The primal cause is God. None of the components or their whole can be God because they obey and follow the will of the primal cause.

Hayy, the everliving, is He who knows and acts freely without any limitations. Any organism whose components are finite and dependent cannot be an everliving infinite.

Qayyum, the self-subsisting, (a magnified form of the adjective qayam-standing and enduring) is He who stands (subsists) by Himself and all other stand (are subsisted) by His eternal endurance.

Anything, composed of components with separate functions, is governed by the law of cause and effect; and that which needs reason or cause to be effective or sufficient cannot be self-subsisting, "Allah is the self-subsisting" means that to be effective or sufficient He does not need a reason or cause because He Himself is the prime cause. Now it becomes clear that the hypothesis of the scholars and the theologians of the Christian church not only fail to convince the seekers of truth but also create chaos and confusion.

[shakir 3:3] He has revealed to you the Book with truth, verifying that which is before it, and He revealed the Tawrat and the Injeel aforetime, a guidance for the people, and He sent the Furqan.

[Pooya/Ali Commentary 3:3]

Aqa Mahdi Puya says:

Tawrat, Injil and the books, mentioned here and in other verses of the Quran, refer to that which was revealed to Musa, Isa and other prophets. Tawrat (the revealed will of Allah) was revealed to Musa. In Hebrew it means light. But the Old Testament is a collection of several other books in addition to the Pentateuch. The four gospels of the New Testament are not the Injil revealed to prophet Isa. These gospels contain only some extracts of the sayings of Isa, and narrate his activities in Galilee, Jerusalem and other habitations of the Jews. The Christian Bible is a book of traditions like the books of traditions written by Muslim, Bukhari and other writers of traditions. These four gospels were written by the followers of Jesus, whom the Christian church proclaims as the apostles. In fact the teaching of Jesus is the gospel, which means glad tidings or good news, because the advent of the last prophet of Allah, the Holy Prophet, was foretold by him, as mentioned in John 14:16-17; and 15:26; and 16:7-13 (see commentary of verse 40 of al Baqarah [2:40]). The Old and the New Testaments, known as the Bible, is an edited edition of the corrupted and distorted Jewish scripts, prepared to give currency to the doctrine of trinity.

It is mentioned in Mark 1:15 that Jesus asked his disciples to believe in the gospel and preach it to the children of Israel. The gospel referred to by Isa was the Injil, original text of which is not available. On account of theological considerations adhered to by the first council of Venice, the four gospels, written by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John; are said to be authentic, otherwise there is no historical evidence to support this claim. There were other gospels written by some other disciples but they are treated as apocryphal (spurious) and non-canonic.

The Quran is the only uncorrupted book of Allah, containing the true word of Allah in its original purity, revealed to the Holy Prophet, who pronounced it as it was revealed to him, recorded then and there, preserved, never tampered with, and transferred to generation after generation.

Falsehood cannot come near it from before it nor from behind it. (It is) a revelation from the all-wise, the most praised. (Ha Mim 41:42)

For kitab see commentary of verse 2 of al Baqarah [2:2].

AL KITAB

Aqa Mahdi Puya says:

Al kitab, the book, has been named Quran, derived from the verb qura-a, which means to recite or to read. Therefore, the literal meaning of Quran is recitation, in the light of verses 16 to 19 of al Qiyamah, and in view of verse 185 of al Baqarah, it is a guidance with clear proofs, and a distinction.

It is furqan - that which teaches us to distinguish between good and evil, according to verse 1 of al Furqan, on account of its containing the principles of good and evil, and also the conditions of reward and punishment. It is also called furqan because of its gradual delivery, part by part, according to verses 106 and 107 of Bani Israil [12:106-107]. According to verse 9 of al Hijr [15:9], it is dhikr, the reminder.

Al kitab is hakim (a decisive book of divine wisdom), aziz (a unique book of natural beauty), hamid (praiseworthy), majid (glorious), karim (bounteous and honoured) and mubin (clear and expressive).

It is also ummul kitab, the mother book. The application of this title is with regard to the clear revelations, beyond all ambiguity (ayat ul muhkamat) - they are the substance of the book as per verse 7 of Ali Imran [3:7], in the light of which the rest of the book is explained.

There are many other substitute expressions of the above noted description of al kitab, mentioned in the verses of the Quran, some of which have been listed on page 1. Also many important aspects of the book have been discussed in the "essentials for the readers of the Quran", from page 1 to 7.

The Quran has been specified as the book, as well as, the word or sentence of Allah. The book and the word are the vehicles of thought and will. When the expression of thought or will, or both, are written, giving stability and simultaneity to the components, it is a book, whereas the word is only the spoken expression. Although the expression, whether written or spoken, is attributable to the knowledge and the ability of the author or speaker, it is absurd to refer to the work of the author or speaker as his attribute, because knowledge or ability, and not its outcome, is the attribute.

In normal sense, the word is produced by highly organised functions of the vocal organs of living beings; and a book is the result of the elaborate labour of man's hand, pen, paper and ink etc. This does not apply to the word and the book of Allah. According to Imam Ali ibna abi Talib, the word of Allah is not a spoken expression in the sense of sound but is a divine will. He said: It is not a sound that strikes the ear, nor a voice to be heard. Verily His words are His work, originated by Him.

His work, originated by Him, had stability and simultaneity prior to its gradual delivery to the visible world; and after the appearance in the lowest sphere of manifestation, this stable and simultaneous work became His book. Therefore, it has continuity, in the order of descent, by the continuity of His will. In view of these two aspects, all that has been created (the whole and its parts) is His word, the effect of His creative will. On account of its stability and the simultaneity of its parts the whole creation is a book of Allah i.e. the written expression of His will and thought.

Generally, the endurance of the written expression does not depend upon the existence of its author, or the continuity of his attention. But the relation between the created and the creator, as pointed out by the Quran, is like the ray of light to its source; the reaction to the action; the reflection to the radiation; the speech to the continuity of attention and the will to speak; or the mental process to the attention. Also, as the speech is related to the speaker, so too the genesis, survival, continuity and simultaneity of the parts of every finite being is related to the continuity of the attention and will of the infinite, the creator. Viewing the creation from this angle, it is the word of Allah. Therefore, the effect or outcome of the divine will and knowledge is the book, as well as, the word of Allah.

Allah is the absolute and the ultimate authority in the domain of creation (what is), as well as, in the domain of legislation (what ought to be). In the "what is", there is no place for the will of the creature. In the "what ought to be", the will of the creature operates as a reaction. With reference to the "what is", the book of Allah is the kitab ul takwini. In connection with the "what ought to be", it is the kitab ul tashri-i. The source of both the books, the takwini and the tashri-i (under the process of tanzil, the gradual delivery), is with Allah, immeasurable, but the revealed form, He had sent down, is in a known measure (see verse 21 of al Hijr [15:21]). Nazul or the revelation is a term applied in the Quran to the process of descent from the infinite to the finite, in creation as well as in legislation. The divine revelation, in legislation, passes through the same stages of intellectual, angelical and non-material agencies, as it does in creation. In creation, the last stage of revelation is that when it is exposed to our senses, termed as alam shahadat (the visible world), and alam malak (the world of cause and effect). In legislation the last stage of revelation is the heart (power to visualise) of the Holy Prophet, prior to its utterance. Therefore, this revelation (legislation) is in complete conformity with the revelation regarding creation.

Imam Ali ibna abi Talib says: Although you see yourself as a "nothing to speak of" origin, in you is summed up the vast universe; and, therefore, you are the meaningful book whose words make clear the unknown.

Thus man is the synthesis of kitab ul takwini, or a brief summary of the universe, a microcosm (alam saghir), and the universe is a universal man (insan ul kabir). Each can be viewed in the light of the other. This is only applicable to a man who has reached the superlative sphere of intellectual attainment and is capable of direct communion with the absolute, which is the highest stage of obedience (ububiyat). It is applicable to the last prophet of Allah. And it is applicable to those whom he had identified with himself in such attainment. It is unanimously agreed and universally acknowledged by all schools of Islam that the Holy Prophet did not identify anyone with himself nor himself with anyone save Ali, Fatimah, Hasan, Husayn and the other nine Imams of his house.

The Holy Prophet had said: I and Ali are from "one and same" divine light. The first of us is Muhammad, the middle of us is Muhammad, the last of us is Muhammad, every one of us is Muhammad.

Next to the Holy Prophet and those mentioned above, are the other prophets and messengers of Allah, according to their various degrees of attainment. To each of them the word and the book of Allah, in the realm of legislation, had been revealed, keeping in view their respective degree of attainment as the microcosm and purposeful book of creation. The higher a prophet was in his attainment, the more comprehensively was the word and the book revealed to him. The last prophet, in his ascent, reached the maximum stage of qaba aw adna (two bows length, or even nearer - Najm 53:9), therefore, the word and the book revealed to him was the most comprehensive, the most expressive, and the final revelation, tammat kalimatu rabbika sidqan wa adla (and perfect is the word of your Lord in truth and justice) - See verses 115 and 116 of al An-am [6:115-116].

While explaining the word and the book, in their origin and in the various stages of their revelation down to the visible world, the process of descent from the infinite to the finite and from the absolute unity to manifold multiplicity has been dealt with. Now it must be mentioned, as pointed out earlier, that the process of creation is circular in nature, and all that which has been created should return to the original source, therefore, the ascent, from the finite to the infinite, and from multiplicity to unity, necessarily follows the same stages of the descent in reverse.

"He regulates (all) affairs from heaven to the earth; then it shall ascend unto Him." (SAJDAH 32:5) Also refer to verse 2 of al Saba [34:2], and verse 11 of al Rum [30:11].

Whatever comes into existence in the lowest realm, be it a substance, an accident, or an action, appears in the highest in a refined form, or correspondingly retains its refined impression. These impressions may be termed as the divine books of the hereafter (kutub ma badut tabiyy) i.e. books post-physical, in the same way as the impressions present in the process of revelation, prior to the visible world, may be termed as book pre-physical. The origin and the absolute reality behind the phenomenon, the universe, in all its stages and phases, is identified with the infinite excellence. Therefore, it must be said that the stages, in both the arcs of descent and ascent, together with their contents, closer to the infinite, are more real than the stages further from the absolute. In fact the lower stages are the impressions, images and reflections of the real entities in the higher stages.

And there is not a thing but with Us are its treasures, and We do not send it down but in a known measure. (HIJR 15:21 )

In the initial stages of contemplation, the things perceptible to the senses look real, and all that which is out of sight (beyond perception) appears to be imaginary, but when the intellectual observation and vision grasps the above view point and reaches beyond, this state of mind will give the impression of unreality and the ideas beyond take the shape of reality. So, the things which appear in the sensual realm are merely of an illusory nature, unreal; because their reality lies in the realm beyond. This imperative condition is applicable to the book of creation (kitab ul takwini), the visible phenomenon of creation, as well as the revealed book of legislation (kitab ul tashri-i). To deny the existence of the Quran, or the other sacred scriptures, prior to their advent in their visible form, means the denial of the proceeding of the universe from the infinitely perfect absolute. It would be an unreasonable denial based upon a negative approach (from the imperfect to the perfect and from the unconscious to the conscious), because the basis of pure scientific investigation is that "a thing cannot come out of nothing." Or were they created by nothing? (Tur: 35) The truth that whatever appears in the visible world has had a pre-existence in some form in the book (the unseen world), as stated in verse 22 of al Hadid [57:22], has to be accepted.

The Quran, in verses 38 and 39 of al Rad [13:38-39] says that "for every term (age) there is a book (a written record) prescribed; (of it) Allah effaces what He wills, and confirms (what He wills); and with Him is the mother of the book (basic source)." It means that for every fixed term or period there is a book which is subject to change. Also for every soul and for every community there is a book (see verse 10 of al Munafiqun [63:10]) and each of these has two books, the book prior to its existence and the book after its existence (see verses 27 and 28 of al Jathiyah [45:27-28], and verses 13 and 14 of Bani Isra-il [17:13-14]). All these partial books, dealing with conduct and character and various aspects, prior to or after the visible appearance, are included in the ummul kitab, which is with Allah (see verses 38 and 39 of al Rad [13:38-39]), represented here by the Quran which is ummul kitab, as well as, kitab ul mubin. Therefore, all references to al-kitab indicate the Quran either in its revealed form or in its form prior to revelation.

The Quran is the sum total of the word and the book of Allah. It is the map of the universe. Its letters, words, clauses, sentences, chapters, parts, and symbols, jointly or severally, signify the facts of the creation in its circular process. To read and understand any map, a fixed scale is required, without which it would be a meaningless mass of unrelated and irrelevant dots and lines having no value or significance. Therefore, in the case of the Quran, those who do not make use of the "real scale", remain unattached, go astray and wander in the wilderness of ignorance and confusion. The Quran refers to this fact.

"Verily, We sent Our messengers with clear proofs, and revealed with them the book and the scale, that mankind may observe right measure (establish themselves in justice): (HADID 57:25)

Reason, with its limitations, can be applied as a scale, but the Quran provides the clear guidance as to who are the true scale.

Verily (indeed) it is Quran honourable, in a book, hidden, which none touches save the purified. (WAQI'AH 56:77-79)

The touch, mentioned in the above verse, is not physical in nature, but is purely intellectual and spiritual, which implies total identification of the known, the knowing and the knower, inseparable from each other. Therefore, only the thoroughly purified souls, as shown in the above verse, can be in touch with the Quran in its pre-revealed form, as it is in the hidden book. The Quran clearly identifies such persons who have been thoroughly purified by Allah Himself to the perfect degree in verse 33 of al Ahzab [33:33]. They are the Ahl ul Bayt, the people of the holy house. The well known and the most authentic declaration of the Holy Prophet (Hadith Thaqalayn) is the confirming interpretation of these verses. The holy book and the holy Ahl ul Bayt are inseparably identified with each other from their origin, down in the arc of descent, and up again in their ascent (return) to the presence of the maliki yawmid din. It makes no difference whether the term imamum mabin, in verse 12 of Ya Sin, is interpreted either as the Ahl ul Bayt or as the Quran, for these two are neither separate from each other nor will ever be separable, because one reflects the other.

And everything we have confined into a clear expressive guide. (YA SIN 36:12)

The revealed book, in our hands, does not speak, and is therefore mute (samit); whereas the Ahl ul Bayt by being able to speak are eloquent (natiq). This conclusion is based upon the Quran and the wording of the Holy Prophet. Whoever does not accept it, does so, based on his own conjectural discretion. Whatever is said while explaining the verses of the Quran, throughout this commentary, is based upon the unambiguous verses of the book itself, the authentic traditions of the Holy Prophet, the holy Ahl ul Bayt and true logical reasoning.

In view of the explanation of the word and the book of Allah, the opinion held by some people of importance, as an article of faith, that the Quran is uncreated, eternal and co-existing with the being of Allah, like His attributes, becomes unacceptable. The word or writing of Allah is His work, not His essential attribute. The idea of coexistence of His work with His being was imported from the Christian ideology which was borrowed from Jewish Alexandrian philosophy. The Quran repeatedly presents the whole creation and its every part and particle as the word (work) of Allah, the outcome of His creative will and attention, or His legislative will and attention.

By disclosing the correct meaning of the term word, applicable to every creature, the Quran refutes the efforts of the Christian theologists to establish Christ as the co-existing being with God by calling him the divine word after (erroneously) assuming that the word of God is uncreated and eternal. According to the Quran the unusual birth of Isa does not exempt him from being a created obedient servant of Allah.

Verily, the likeness of Isa (Jesus) with Allah is as the likeness of Adam. He created him of dust, (ALI IMRAN 3:59)

Also see verses 16 to 38 in Maryam [19:16-38]. In the book of Luke (3:38) Adam has also been referred to as the son of God, which clearly implies that the word "son" has been substituted for "the chosen servant" of God. Thus Isa was one of the obedient servants of the Lord in the same sense as Adam was one of His chosen servants, and nothing more.

Bil haqq means (with) truth, certainty, reason, justice and proof, in contrast to the false notions and fabricated dogmas of the other corrupted religions and creeds.

Musaddiqan means the Quran verifies and confirms the preachings of the earlier prophets about the unity of Allah and His demand from man to do good and adopt righteousness.

Furqan means that which teaches us to distinguish between good and evil, truth and falsehood. It also means salvation. It is another name of the Quran.

[shakir 3:4] Surely they who disbelieve in the communications of Allah they shall have a severe chastisement; and Allah is Mighty, the Lord of retribution.

[Pooya/Ali Commentary 3:4]

Those who disbelieve in Allah's signs shall be severely punished. The verses of the Quran are His signs. Signs also refer to the miracles the messengers of Allah and His chosen representatives (the Ahlul Bayt) put into operation under His command and guidance, for which readers are requested to refer to the commentary of verses 50, 56, 60, 65 and 243 of al Baqarah [2:50, 56, 60, 65, 243].

[shakir 3:5] Allah-- surely nothing is hidden from Him in the earth or in the heaven.

[Pooya/Ali Commentary 3:5]

Allah knows the hidden, the manifest, the seen and the unseen. He is aware of everything and every event in the universe, because He is the creator of all things. Prophet Isa has made it clear in his following statement that he was only a mortal, created by Allah, and not god as the Christian church wrongly claims:

But about the day or that hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, not even the son; only the Father. (Mark 13:32).

In surah al Nazi-at Allah informs the Holy Prophet that he does not have to explain to the people when the hour will be, because He (Allah) alone knows its term or termination.

[shakir 3:7] He it is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its verses are decisive, they are the basis of the Book, and others are allegorical; then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation. but none knows its interpretation except Allah, and those who are firmly rooted in knowledge say: We believe in it, it is all from our Lord; and none do mind except those having understanding.

[Pooya/Ali Commentary 3:7]

As explained in the commentary of verse 2 of al Baqarah the Quran was revealed to the Holy Prophet. He knew the true meaning of every verse, or after him, it was Ali who claimed that he knew when, why and for whom every verse of the Quran was revealed.

Most of the verses of the Quran are clear and decisive. There is no ambiguity in them. They are known as the muhkamat. They relate to the fundamentals of the faith, such as the oneness of Allah, the directions pertaining to the practice of the faith and the laws governing the day to day life of the faithful. They can neither be changed nor modified. Any man of average intelligence can understand and follow them.

The mutashabihat are the verses which have been composed in subtle and profound diction and style. They carry implications other than the literal meanings, and therefore, are capable of giving different significations, like "The hand of Allah is on their hands" in verse 10 of al Fath [48:10]. Verse 1 of al Hud [11:1] says that the Quran is a book of clear and decisive verses. Verse 23 of al Zumar [39:23] says that Allah has sent down the very best discourse as a book conformable in its repetition and consimilarity. Only the men of understanding who possess a higher level of intelligence contemplate and find out the meaningful implications of such verses. Average and ordinary minds cannot figure out or have knowledge of the real purport of such verses, and if they try this on their own, they are bewildered and go astray. As mentioned in the commentary of verse 1 of al Baqarah, the huruf muqatta-at are also meaningful but their subtle and profound meanings are known to Allah and His chosen representatives (Muhammad and ali Muhammad) only. Therefore, those who know the true purport of these symbolic letters occupy the highest position in the domain of knowledge and wisdom. In the well-known tradition of thaqalayn the Holy Prophet has clearly made known the fact that whoso remains attached with the Quran and his Ahl ul Bayt, after his departure from this world, will never go astray, because these two weighty authorities will never be separated from each other, and joined together, they shall meet the Holy Prophet at the spring of Kawthar; and "I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate", said the Holy Prophet in order to guide the faithfuls so that, to have knowledge of the Quran, they must refer to Ali and his Ahl ul Bayt, who alone know the true meanings of the mutashabihat.

Zaygh means disease, perversity, evil, and wicked intention, the inclination to go against the truth and to blunder, revolt and go astray. Fitna means to create mischief, or to create difference of opinion and to mislead.

"None knows its interpretation except Allah and those (who are) firmly rooted in knowledge", renders null and void all attempts made by scholars to discover the true meanings of the mutashabihat. The firmly rooted in knowledge are those whom Allah Himself gives the knowledge, as verse 49 of al Ankabut [29:49] says: But it is clear revelations in the hearts of those who have been given knowledge. Therefore, the observation of the Ahmadi commentator that reading various passages in the light of each discover the true significance of ambiguous passages, is based upon his inclination to go out of the right course. The Christians also try in vain to assign divinity to Isa by calculating the numerical value of the haruf muqatta'at, and misinterpret the complex verses to suit their dubious theories.

How the complex verses can be interpreted is not mentioned in this verse, nor anywhere in the Quran, but it is clearly disclosed that besides Allah only those, endowed with divine knowledge, know the true meanings of the mutashabihat. The firmly rooted in knowledge are the Holy Prophet and his Ahl ul Bayt, the thoroughly purified ones (Ahzab: 33), who possess the desired purity of heart and soul, essential for receiving and holding the truth in order to use it (Waqi'ah 56:77 to 79) to do good to themselves and to others. It is obvious that there is no conceivable necessity of revealing complex verses or letter symbols if even the Holy Prophet, to whom the Quran was revealed, did not know their meanings. It is only a hypothetical inquiry, otherwise there is the clear mention of rasikhuna fil ilm (the firmly rooted in knowledge) in this verse, the first among whom is the Holy Prophet, and after him, as said earlier, his Ahlul Bayt are the custodians of his knowledge and wisdom, who alone are entitled to interpret every word of the Quran.

In reply to Anas bin Malik's query about rasikhuna fil ilm the Holy Prophet said: "They are those whose hands do not do aught but that which is just, righteous and good; whose tongues do not utter aught but that which is true; whose hearts and minds are enlightened and rational; whose stomachs are free from that which is forbidden."

The ayah al tat-hir (Ahzab 33:33) confirms that only the thoroughly purified Muhammad and ali Muhammad are the rasikhuna fil ilm. Verse 13 of Luqman [31:13] says that polytheism (shirk) is the most grievous inequity, the worst type of impurity. It is a historical fact that all the companions of the Holy Prophet, before embracing Islam, for a long time in their lives, were idolworshippers. The Holy Prophet, Bibi Fatimah and Ali ibna abi Talib and their children were the only ones who were free from the impurity of polytheism right from the day they were born. All Muslims, in every age, add karamallahu wajhu (Allah graced and honoured his face above others) after the name of Ali, because he never worshipped any ghayrallah (other than Allah). The Holy Prophet pointed out the essential purity of body and soul in Ali, equal to his own purity, when he said: "O Ali! Your flesh is my flesh, your blood is my blood. You and I are from one and the same divine light"

Verses 18 of Ali Imran [3:18], 162 of al Nisa [4:162], 49 of Ankabut [29:49], and 11 of al Mujadalah [58:11] refer to those who have been divinely endowed with knowledge.

As ordinary human beings are unable to know the meanings of the mutashabihat, the divine mercy guides the sincere seekers of the truth to turn to the ahladh dhikr, the Holy Prophet and his Ahlul Bayt (see commentary of verse 43 of al Nahl [16:43] and verse 7 of al Anbiya 21:7]): "So ask the people of dhikr (the reminder or the Quran) if you do not know."

Aqa Mahdi Puya says:

Nothing in the earth or in the heavens is hidden from Allah, the self-subsisting, because He is the author of the book of creation (the development of the embryo has been mentioned in the previous verse as an example). In this verse He says that the author of the book of creation is also the author of the book of legislation (the Quran).

The book of creation (the universe) contains miscellaneous signs. Some are clear. Some are intricate and perplexing. For example (in the book of creation) the function and the significance of every part of the human structure has been studied and defined except the "appendix". Now a rational student of the book of creation will say: "As no part is without some significance, this also must have some meaning, though I have not yet understood it."

On the contrary a mischief-maker will mix up that which is known with that which is not known and deny both by saying: "As no reason or significance is found in this part, therefore, there is no reason or significance in the whole."

Likewise in the book of legislation, some signs (verses) are clear and decisive (muhkam), and some have several possible meanings (mutashabih), therefore, the rational mind will try to understand the mutashabih (unclear) verses in the light of the muhkam (clear and decisive) verses, by proceeding from the known to the unknown or from the concrete to the abstract; but the perverse mind will judge that which is certainly precise and definite in the light of the complex so as to mislead people by dubious misinterpretations.

Verse 1 of al Hud [11:1] says that all the verses of the book are well arranged and firmly established. The arrangement of the words in the verses and the verses in the surahs is so accurate and proper that they all form a consistent unity, though they were separately revealed. It implies that the Quran was already arranged and established before its revelation, which is confirmed by verse 105 of Bani Israil. In verse 23 of al Zumar, the book is presented as consistent, consimilar and conformable in its parts (mutashabihan). But in this verse mutashabihat refers to the meanings, the implications, the connotations and the denotations of the complex passages.

Muhtam (clear) and mutashabih (complex) are relative terms. What is unclear to some may be apparent and definite to others. There may be quite a few features and viewpoints inherent in certain ideas, or commands, or narrations. Studying them from a particular angle will make their meaning and purpose crystal clear but their clarity may turn into obscurity when they are viewed from another standpoint. At all events, the complex should be examined and interpreted in the light of that which is clear and decisive, or as explained by the Holy Prophet, or by those whose authority has been established by the Holy Prophet and the Quran (see pages 1 to 7, commentary of verses 6 and 7 of al Fatihah [1:6-7], and verses 2, 30 to 37 and 124 of al Baqarah 2:2, 30, 124]). In the light of verses 16 to 19 of al Qiyamah [75:16-19], the divine agency collects, recites and interprets the Quran. As the book is a guidance for mankind, there should be no unintelligible or incomprehensible passage in it. There is none. As asserted by the Ahlul Bayt, rasikhuna fil ilm is conjuncted with Allah and yaquluna is an adverbial clause qualifying the state of knowledge, referring to rasikhun. In the Nahj al Balagha, Ali ibna abi Talib says that the rasikhuna fil ilm believe in the unknown in the light of the known. As explained in the commentary of verse 3 of al Baqarah [2:3] the knowledge of the ghayb (unknown) is with the infinite, therefore, the awareness of the finite created beings, even if they are endowed with the divine insight, cannot be at par with the absolute wisdom of the ghayb ul mutlaq, the hayyul qayyum creator. All that which becomes (in obedience) effective, as soon as He wills, is knowable to man. A finite being can know as much as the infinite all-wise likes him to know and grow in knowledge, which implies that basically his knowledge was insufficient but he rises towards the level of perfection, with the help of divine endowment, on his own merits, to become aware of the meanings of all that which has been revealed in the book, because, if it is not so, such revelations (mutashabihat) would be unprofitable and frustrating. So what Imam Ali ibna abi Talib and Imam Muhammad bin Ali al Baqir have said in this connection is true.

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Jeez Louise(sorry abaleada), God truly doesn't close a door without opening a window. I pretty much disagree with everything everyone has said in this thread since yesterday, but its just heaps and heaps that I would have to go through point by point and refute. I have a particular problem with your attempts to refute stinky's(1 - 3). I suppose your interpretation of the word "heed" will be even more exotic. I'm in a cafe so this will have to wait (I'm sure you will all be waiting with anticipatory delight).

But since one of you brought up islamic law in Iran, why is a woman's life worth less than a man's? And why is someone's left testicle worth more than their right?

Also after saying this:

However, these animals who lock their wives in the prison called home, take away all means of communication from her, prevent her from being with her children, force her into servitude, etc. are acting with a strictness and harshness that is antithetical to Islam and very possibly illegal in the country in which they reside. Those who go further and refuse to provide for their wives, verbally abuse them, and beat them up are actually criminals according to Islamic law and should be treated as such.

can you now attempt to justify for me the punishment for apostacy?

jlainqatar: sorry for thinking you were a guy, but your avatar gave me that impression (No, I didnt think you were ayotallah khomeini, it just gives you a masculine image). Maybe you should change it to someone like, say, Shirin Ebadi.

P.S.

Furthermore, nothing more then visual pleasure has been mentioned here. In the second passage especially, they seem to be covered up in clothing: "Upon them shall be garments of fine green silk and thick silk interwoven with gold, and they shall be adorned with bracelets of silver, and their Lord shall make them drink a pure drink" (76:21). In erotic poetry, other pleasures would have been mentioned or alluded to.

Riiiiight, now they have them dressed up in silky outfits and jewlery. That doesn't prove my point at all :rolleyes: . Is there anything more than visual pleasure mentioned with regards to the virgins (virgins :rolleyes: )? Are there erotic passages in the Quran? Besides, isn't all this stuff about "bashful" and "innocent" virgins getting a little misogynistic?

Arrrrghhh... I can't resist.

2) If what you claim were true, then we would all love homosexuals and think them to be normal, according to the interpretation of the Qur'an and ahadith by certain modernists. I don't think that I need to tell you the reality of the situation.

No, again you just helped prove my point. We know through their poetry that pedastry was quite common in the arab world:

Anon (9th Century Arabic)

SURPRISE, SURPRISE (Trans. Derek Parker)

Nizam the pederast, whose delight in boys

Was known throughout Bagdad, one afternoon

In a secluded place saw in a clearing

The flash of limbs behind a nearby bush,

And looking closer came upon a youth

Who seemed more lovely than his dreams had promised,

Lying asleep in shade, his head pressed deep

Into crossed arms, his long slim body

Quite naked, the firm buttocks firmly offered.

Quick as a jackal pouncing, Nizam jumped

Upon the lad, his robe about his waist,

The startled boy pierced by his lusty [edited by stinky]

Before you could say knife. Not until later,

When boy lay panting on the flattened grass,

Did Nizam, pausing to embrace his love,

Discover him a her, surprised but pleased

At having been given such pleasure at a source

No previous lover seemed to know about.

Nizam converted ? Never. But the girl

Now gives her lovers strange instruction.

Abu Nuwas

94

I said as the narcissus-boy came ambling by,

a peach twirled in his hand:

'What a pity to wait until we offer cash!

Give love its proper due!'

'More pitiful still,' he replied, and chuckled,

'is a penniless flop at the door.'

98

Make many deletions, Jinan, when you write,

and delete the word, when you do, with your tongue

and, passing deletingly over a word,

draw it close to your beautiful lips;

for I hold, when running over the lines,

the cancelled somethings for a lick:

That - is a kiss from you from afar

which I steal while keeping here to my room.

99

A boy at blush of dawn

silver in the absolute

in whom the eye beholds

beauty in infinite

poised perfection, eclipsed

in re-creation launching -

so beauty moves in orbits

reborn and unregenerate.

It is also quite common in afghanistan (even though gays are bad there too. Don't worry, i recognize the contradiction). This is why I believe that there are a few pederastesque passages in the quran. The fact that modern muslims like yourselves despise homosexuals and wish to deny your pederast roots is why you are refusing to properly interpret the quran (see stinky(2)).

An interesting side note: I read an article(I'll try find it online) in harper's after the war in afghanistan(the american one) where the authour travels around the country. One day he's getting a ride in a van with his guide and three other afghani guys. One of the other guy's turns to him and says something. His guide translates: "you are very beautiful. I would like to give you my love." They rode the rest of the trip in silence. When he reached the norther alliance's camp he found that the interiors of the captured taliban trucks were decorated like homosexual bordellos. In a society where women are treated like walking incubators used for bartering in financial transactions, men go looking elsewhere for "love." The same thing happens in all-male institutions like prisons or english male boarding schools. I realise that afghanistan isn't representative of modern Islamic culture, but in all islamic societies there exists a strong repression of sexuality. Pre-marital sex is forbiden, masturbation is haram, etc.(three-ways are completely out of the question). What is the result? I contend that although there are probably the same number of proper homosexuals in Islamic communities, there is an increased occurence of homosexual behaviour among heterosexual men.

Edited by stinky

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[52:24] And round them shall go boys of theirs as if they were hidden pearls.

[76:19] And round about them shall go youths never altering in age; when you see them you will think them to be scattered pearls

theexperience_hud.gif

Taliban_Beauty_Shots_Wallpaper.jpg

Pederasty isn’t Greek to post-Taliban Afghans

By PAUL VARNELL, The Washington Blade, March 8, 2002

Just as Afghan men look for potential lovers among handsome teenage boys, the ancient Greeks also sought out youths.

AFGHANISTAN AND ADJACENT areas of central Asia have long been associated with homosexuality, particularly pederast relationships -- adult men who seek out teenagers, usually 15-18 -- prompted by the segregation and inaccessibility of women as well as by the strong male bonding that Islamic warrior cultures tend to generate.

Psychologist C. A. Tripp, a colleague of sex researcher Alfred C. Kinsey, once estimated that most Afghan males had some homosexual experience either as youths or adults, often both.

Several Afghan sultans, kings and tribal leaders were known to be pederasts. Many maintained small "harems" of young men, some trained as dancing boys ("batchas"). Traders sometimes took favorite teenage youths called "traveling wives" along on their camel caravans

Afghan poets wrote about love for young men, usually in elaborate romantic terms, but sometime expressing love and lust in the same poem. The authoritative "Encyclopedia of Homosexuality" cites a poem titled "The Wounded Heart" that goes: "There is a boy across the river with a rectum like peach, but alas I cannot swim."

With public attention recently focused on Afghanistan, the Times of London and the New York Times reported on the renewed visibility of pederastic relationships following the defeat of the Islamic Taliban regime.

The London Times Jan. 12 account was sensationalistic, almost comic in its lurid exaggerations. It described a culture "obsessed with sodomy" where a "naive," "fresh-faced youth," who "falls into the man's clutches," is "groomed for sex" and subject to "a terrible fate" and "marked for life." Once, it said, military commanders even fought over which was to be the lover of a youth.

BUT THE ARTICLE contradicted itself on almost every point. It noted that the older men, usually married, are more like "sugar daddies." The relationships are "completely open, a part of life." There "appears to be no shame or furtiveness about them" and the young lovers are honored more than friends. Poorer men can even raise their social status by attracting a young lover.

Further, the youths (usually 15 or 16 years old) have to be wooed and courted. The men invite them for tea and offer them gifts -- "hashish, or a watch, a ring, or even a motorbike. One of the most valued presents is a fighting pigeon which can be worth up to $400."

The New York Times account on Feb. 21 was less lurid, but had some of the same problems. It referred to "boys" and "pedophilia" but the "boys" were teenagers, some in their late teens. It told the same story about men fighting over a youth, but admitted that young men normally had to be courted with gifts.

For instance, one man interviewed, Muhammad, 29, said he met his lover Ahmed, 19, when he was 22 and Ahmed was 12. He courted him for many month, taking him gifts like chocolate and "lots of money" until they became good friends and Ahmed, by then probably 13, agreed to be his lover.

Ahmed said he has no regrets about the relationship and since the men are now 29 and 19, the relationship hardly seems pederastic at this point, much less "pedophilic."

NONE OF THIS should be shocking or surprising for those familiar with ancient Greece, the foundation, after all, of our own civilization. Just as Afghan men tended to look for potential lovers at the soccer stadium or movie theater, ancient Greeks spent their leisure time at the gymnasium, which served as a social center as well as a school of athletics.

There the men kept an eye open for handsome young men, commonly between 15 and 17. Some Greek vase paintings even show men courting physically mature, well-built young men who look like high school football players.

When a man saw a youth he admired he would try to befriend him, edging aside rivals for his attention, and court him with gifts. The most common present was a young cockerel, perhaps the ancient equivalent of the Afghan fighting pigeon.

And the youths were clearly in control. They could and did reject a suitor and his gifts. Several vase paintings show youths turning away from a man bearing a gift, or pushing away a hand reaching out to touch them.

All of which confirms that there is little new or truly foreign in human relationships.

Edited by stinky

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Jeez Louise(sorry abaleada)...

blah blah respect Prophet blah

*rolling eyes*

*blue face*

God truly doesn't close a door without opening a window.

Judging by your ID, you could use an open window to bring in the fresh air (just a light moment of humour inshallah)

I pretty much disagree with everything everyone has said in this thread since yesterday

No-one expected otherwise. However, making you look smaller in front og the rest of the Muslims here was rather worth it. (and the humour gets a bit heavier)

I suppose your interpretation of the word "heed" will be even more exotic.

Shall I start with Latin, proto-Arabic, or Sanskrit? :-D

But since one of you brought up islamic law in Iran, why is a woman's life worth less than a man's?

That's nothing. In the US, her life is worthless.

The punishment for murder is death. The blood price comes into question if the family of the victim decide to forgive the criminal.

Now you'll tell me that capital punishment is cruel...

And why is someone's left testicle worth more than their right?

The charge on a testicle varies from left to right? You expect me to take your worry on this seriously? I'm laughing too hard. We need a funny laws thread in the off-topic forums for tidbits like this.

can you now attempt to justify for me the punishment for apostacy?

In an Islamic state, open and unrepentant apostacy is like treason in a non-Islamic state. IF the person loved his former religion so much in the first place, he should never have converted to Islam. Tell me what the punishment for treason is in the US an UK.

Riiiiight, now they have them dressed up in silky outfits and jewlery.  That doesn't prove my point at all :rolleyes: .  Is there anything more than visual pleasure mentioned with regards to the virgins (virgins :rolleyes: )?  Are there erotic passages in the Quran?

Excellent summary of our questions. Can you answer them, please?

Besides, isn't all this stuff about "bashful" and "innocent" virgins getting a little misogynistic?

The figures mentioned so far have been boys. Misogyny is hatred of women.

2) If what you claim were true, then we would all love homosexuals and think them to be normal, according to the interpretation of the Qur'an and ahadith by certain modernists. I don't think that I need to tell you the reality of the situation.

No, again you just helped prove my point. We know through their poetry that pedastry was quite common in the arab world

Wait. I said homophobia. That is hatred of homosexuality. Usually, whenever homosexuality i mentioned to a group of Muslim laypersons, their first reaction is to drag every effeminite male to the middle of the city, chop off their heads, burn them, drop them off a cliff, and send a wall down after them. Their emotions run so deep that they forget about the procedings of Islamic law, which actually make it difficult for people to take such thoughtless, mob-like action.

And then you turn around and refer to homo-eroticism in Arabic poetry.

Homo-eroticism and homophobia are two opposite things.

Anon (9th Century Arabic)

SURPRISE, SURPRISE  (Trans. Derek Parker)

Nizam the pederast, whose delight in boys

Was known throughout Bagdad, one afternoon

In a secluded place saw in a clearing

Very cute non-religious poetry.

It's non-religious.

The Qur'an is a religious text.

The fact that modern muslims like yourselves despise homosexuals and wish to deny your pederast roots is why you are refusing to properly interpret the quran

The part where Prophet Lot calls straight guys that openly practised a lot of homosexuality criminals after they tried to rape what they thought were other guys?

By the way, what are your credentials in the Arabic language?

An interesting side note:  I read an article(I'll try find it online) in harper's after the war in afghanistan(the american one) where the authour travels around the country.  One day he's getting a ride in a van with his guide and three other afghani guys.  One of the other guy's turns to him and says something.  His guide translates: "you are very beautiful.  I would like to give you my love."  They rode the rest of the trip in silence.  When he reached the norther alliance's camp he found that the interiors of the captured taliban trucks were decorated like homosexual bordellos.  In a society where women are treated like walking incubators used for bartering in financial transactions, men go looking elsewhere for "love."

Misogyny leads to many societal ills. Thank you for yet another proof of that.

Edited by abaleada

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[52:24] And round them shall go boys of theirs as if they were hidden pearls.

[76:19] And round about them shall go youths never altering in age; when you see them you will think them to be scattered pearls

[.IMG]http://theexperience.clicdev.com/f/html/emoticons/theexperience_hud.gif[/img.]

[.IMG]http://www.deadmoose.com/~rlpittsjr/Pics/Taliban_Beauty_Shots_Wallpaper.jpg[/img.]

Pederasty isn’t Greek to post-Taliban Afghans

By PAUL VARNELL, The Washington Blade, March 8, 2002

Just as Afghan men look for potential lovers among handsome teenage boys, the ancient Greeks also sought out youths.

...

The real trick will be when you can prove that the latter is acceptable to the former.

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Wow, My hat goes off to you Stinky! You are too witty, too crafty and too well read for an entire room full of Islamic devotees to put the brakes on you! Although they won't admit it, you have forced them to question their faith by planting seeds of doubt in their minds about the moral authority of Islam. Many Muslim readers of this post will quitely go away and research the pedastery claims further.

It is undeniable that you presented a clearer argument, a more balanced response, and when called on to back up your claims, you were able to give compelling visual media(much better than some lame Hypertext link or a long, wandering rant).

My only concern is that the cynicism knife cuts both ways! That means that any religion that you choose to adopt will have to undergo similar tests and evaluation in order for you to be content with it. Does any religion trully qualify to meet such a high standard? Is not the overall meaning of any religion the act of faith itself? So perhaps you are right and the Qur'an was written by 7th century mortal men, does that minimize the comfort and inspiration that it bestows on its followers? Does it mean that the Qur'an is less potent in it's ability to instill hope and compassion among it's readers?

post-4-1085822511_thumb.jpg

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Jeez Louise(sorry abaleada)...

blah blah respect Prophet blah

*rolling eyes*

*blue face*

Stop calling Jesus "the prophet," its offensive to christians.

Shall I start with Latin, proto-Arabic, or Sanskrit? :-D

Uh, just a definition of the word "heed" will do fine.

That's nothing. In the US, her life is worthless.

Thats it, just avoid the question and change the subject. A woman's life worth is half as much as a man or 50 camels, or 100 cows. "Nothing" eh? No biggy. In Islam men and women are equal even though the quran says otherwise. In the US( :rolleyes:), a man's life and a woman's life are equal. But anyway, carry on with your cliches (pure envy).

The charge on a testicle varies from left to right? You expect me to take your worry on this seriously?

If someone cuts off a man's testicles the retribution is the full price of 100 camels or 200 cows, full Dieh, however for cutting off the left testicle the retribution is 2/3 of full Dieh, and the right testicles gets 1/3 of full Dieh. Why is a woman's life worth less than a man's left testicle?

In an Islamic state, open and unrepentant apostacy is like treason in a non-Islamic state. IF the person loved his former religion so much in the first place, he should never have converted to Islam. Tell me what the punishment for treason is in the US an UK.

Thats my favourite response. "We're snuffing them out for commiting treason. It's perfectly reasonable. Men who beat their wives are animals, but this is OK." In the US and UK ( :rolleyes: ), treason means stuff like betraying state secrets, or fighting in an opposing army. In Islam it has a more savage "blood in/blood out" type of meaning. Its profoundly ignorant. If you want to live your lives according to the moral code of a seventh century civilization, that's fine. But don't complain when sunni's don't give you any political power in Iraq. And don't blame America for all of your problems.

In a civilized and enlightened state, self-criticism and freedom of inquiry lead to social progress. You poor misunderstood shias cry about being lumped together with extremists, but you are all extremists. You cut your faces open (we're mourning), you have serious discussions about whether Mohammed had Allah crack the moon in half, you advocate the murder of novelists, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

Excellent summary of our questions. Can you answer them, please?

How old are you? 5? My point was that nobody doubts that the virgins' presence involves more than visual pleasure.

The figures mentioned so far have been boys. Misogyny is hatred of women.

Duh, like I said "besides." Meaning, even if we ignore the pederast part of heaven, isn't the description of the female virgins a little misogynistic?

Homo-eroticism and homophobia are two opposite things.

Ugh... does you brain even function on its own? Those two opposite things tend to collide in the passages of the quran that we're focusing on. Thats the whole point. Again, see stinky number 2. You're deliberately misinterpreting the quran because you dont like what it really says.

Very cute non-religious poetry.

It's non-religious.

The Qur'an is a religious text.

Duuuuuuuuuuh... this is getting really painful. That is only the tip of the iceburg of "cute" arabic poetry. It serves as proof that pederastry was quite common in the arab world around the time when the quran was being pasted together. Its not surprising then, that pederast fantasies can be found in the arabic depiction of heaven.

The part where Prophet Lot calls straight guys that openly practised a lot of homosexuality criminals after they tried to rape what they thought were other guys?

Like I said, I'm aware of the quran's contradictions. I'm not the one trying to live my life according to it. Is music haram? ... uh... is dancing good or bad? uh... are we allowed to eat shell fish? uh... will Allah get angry if we do that? uh... is it ok if i eat food made by hindus(afterall, they aren't "of the book")? :rolleyes:

Misogyny leads to many societal ills.

Hence, the pope warn's catholics about marrying muslims. I hate to pee on your parade, but I don't think anybody is too worried about people converting to Islam.

Edited by stinky

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:!!!: omg stinky lol!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol:

Edited by Netzari

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