Jump to content


- -


Photo
- - - - -

Amazing hadith from Sahih Bukhari


27 replies to this topic

#1 IWN

IWN

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPip
  • 654 posts

Posted 12 May 2004 - 01:31 AM

Sahih Bukhari
Volume 4, Book 51, Number 4:
Narrated Al-Aswad:

In the presence of 'Aisha some people mentioned that the Prophet had appointed 'Ali by will as his successor. 'Aisha said, "When did he appoint him by will? Verily when he died he was resting against my chest (or said: in my lap) and he asked for a wash-basin and then collapsed while in that state, and I could not even perceive that he had died, so when did he appoint him by will?"

http://www.usc.edu/d...tml#004.051.004

#2 tahasyed

tahasyed

    slave of Allah

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,444 posts
  • Location:Canada
  • Interests:Eating, sleeping, thinking, reading, religion, surfing the net, calligraphy, drawing, painting.. <br /><br /><br />..did I mention sleeping?

Posted 12 May 2004 - 08:41 AM

LOL, yehh.... I wonder why Aisha is acting so defensive?? :lol: :huh:

#3 Guest_Toreador_*

Guest_Toreador_*
  • Guests

Posted 12 May 2004 - 08:44 AM

(salam)

u kno sunnis have this stereotype of women as being wicked objects, as such its not hard to understand why they prop up aeisha so much.

wasalam

#4 IWN

IWN

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPip
  • 654 posts

Posted 12 May 2004 - 12:09 PM

i think this hadith says soooooo many things in such few words.

it is amazing how the truth is kept alive within things wherein we would least expect to see it...

how Allah has kept the truth alive within the very words of the false ones, having an effect least intended by the latter!

SubhanAllah! Ya Ali Madad !!!

#5 najafalsharf

najafalsharf
  • Banned
  • 9 posts

Posted 12 May 2004 - 05:30 PM

ok guys, im really doin it tough, can anyone spare a penny please!!!

times are tough and my mother has left me to play on the computer while she works late at night, to make our ends, i know you are wondering how i afforded the computer, it was given to me by my long bearded mullah :wub: to use for this cyber jihad.

I wont give up, ill keep coming back, life is hard being a wahabi, u know annoying people with our lousy rhetoric.

Somebody plz adopt me, i have never known a father, I have known many, 100s.

Edited by Abdulhujjah, 25 May 2004 - 08:41 AM.


#6 IWN

IWN

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPip
  • 654 posts

Posted 13 May 2004 - 12:17 AM

Again you are talking about Secondary Things.

First discuss the Primary issue which is Aqeeda-e-Imamat.

I think you have the right time to prove authenticity of shia'ism.

come on, dont waste time.........

the above hadith has everything to do about Aqeedah of Imamat.

That's why I posted it here.

it shows the guilt, desparation, and defensiveness of Ayesha, when she knew she was wrong in denying Imam Ali (as)'s Imamat and Khilafat, and she wanted to cover up her lies, and did a bad job of doing it, and it was meticulously and accurately recorded...

#7 Hannibal

Hannibal

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,476 posts
  • Location:Location

Posted 13 May 2004 - 12:23 AM

Again you are talking about Secondary Things.

First discuss the Primary issue which is Aqeeda-e-Imamat.

I think you have the right time to prove authenticity of shia'ism.

come on, dont waste time.........

In this topic, you are the one who is being questioned, not shias - so please address the point or be silence :)

#8 Netzari

Netzari

    !האַק מיר נישט קיין טשײַניק

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,485 posts
  • Location:Florida
  • Religion:Jewish/B'nei Noach
  • Interests:G-d. G-d is interesting.

Posted 13 May 2004 - 12:53 AM

Sorry, but I'm kinda ignorant on matters such as these. What is the truth that the Shia see in this Bukhari hadith?

:huh:

Salaam and Shalom.

#9 IWN

IWN

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPip
  • 654 posts

Posted 13 May 2004 - 01:10 AM

Sorry, but I'm kinda ignorant on matters such as these. What is the truth that the Shia see in this Bukhari hadith?

:huh:

Salaam and Shalom.

This is the truth in it:

1. Ayesha , a wife of the Prophet pbuh
2. Acts on the defensive, nervously, as if she is hiding something
3. about what we have believed all along, that Ali (as) was the successor
4. She wants to prove Ali wrong so her father Abu Bakr can be Caliph instead
5. but her mannerism, the way she says it, gives her away
6. in all, at the very least, it proves two things:

ONE:
and the Shias of Ali (as) and their opposition to the evil Caliphate, existed at the earliest of the time of Islam

TWO:
Ayesha was desparate to disprove the Imamate or successorship of Ali (as). But she was nervous and defensive, suggesting her guilt, suggesting that she knew she was lying.


these things go a long long way in our stand against the Sunni, esp the wahabis.

#10 Netzari

Netzari

    !האַק מיר נישט קיין טשײַניק

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,485 posts
  • Location:Florida
  • Religion:Jewish/B'nei Noach
  • Interests:G-d. G-d is interesting.

Posted 13 May 2004 - 01:14 AM

lol! very interesting. thanks for clearing that up :) .

#11 IWN

IWN

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPip
  • 654 posts

Posted 13 May 2004 - 01:22 AM

read the abovementioned Hadith in the light of the following Hadith and all becomes clear :)


http://www.usc.edu/d...ri/092.sbt.html

Sahih Bukhari
Volume 9, Book 92, Number 468:
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:

When the time of the death of the Prophet approached while there were some men in the house, and among them was 'Umar bin Al-Khatttab, the Prophet said, "Come near let me write for you a writing after which you will never go astray." 'Umar said, "The Prophet is seriously ill, and you have the Quran, so Allah's Book is sufficient for us." The people in the house differed and disputed. Some of them said, "Come near so that Allah's Apostle may write for you a writing after which you will not go astray," while some of them said what 'Umar said. When they made much noise and differed greatly before the Prophet, he said to them, "Go away and leave me." Ibn 'Abbas used to say, "It was a great disaster that their difference and noise prevented Allah's Apostle from writing that writing for them.

#12 Netzari

Netzari

    !האַק מיר נישט קיין טשײַניק

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,485 posts
  • Location:Florida
  • Religion:Jewish/B'nei Noach
  • Interests:G-d. G-d is interesting.

Posted 13 May 2004 - 01:27 AM

how about some explaining of this hadith too? (its relevance to the previous one)

(sorry about that)

:)

Salaams.

#13 IWN

IWN

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPip
  • 654 posts

Posted 13 May 2004 - 01:34 AM

hehe okay my jewish friend no problem :)

hold on..

#14 IWN

IWN

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPip
  • 654 posts

Posted 13 May 2004 - 01:38 AM

in the second Hadith,

1. The Prophet pbuh is dying
2. the Prophet pbuh requests something to write on.
3. So he can write the people a will (which was the topic of the first Hadith)
4. But Umar, who is a close friend of Abu Bakr, tries to prevent people from giving the Prophet pbuh a pen and paper
5. Because Umar is afraid that the Prophet pbuh would specify Ali (as) as his successor and Imam and Caliph
6. So Umar wants the Prophet pbuh to die without writing a will
7. And thats how the Prophet pbuh died, without a will
8. The Narrator, Ibn Abbas, laments this in the end

Remember, it is all about Ali (as) 's right to Leadership, which was denied to him. It is the same Ali (as) to whom belongs the big Shrine you see in news photos, in Najaf, in Iraq.

Edited by IWN, 13 May 2004 - 01:40 AM.


#15 Netzari

Netzari

    !האַק מיר נישט קיין טשײַניק

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,485 posts
  • Location:Florida
  • Religion:Jewish/B'nei Noach
  • Interests:G-d. G-d is interesting.

Posted 13 May 2004 - 01:48 AM

thanks for clearing that up :) .

But are you sure you're not jumping to conclusions? How can you be sure that Muhammad was going to write his successor down on the paper? And how can you be sure about your fifth point? Could Umar have had other intentions? Or could he have just screwed up, with no "evil" intentions behind it?

Salaam and Shalom.

#16 IWN

IWN

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPip
  • 654 posts

Posted 13 May 2004 - 02:02 AM

thanks for clearing that up :) .

But are you sure you're not jumping to conclusions? How can you be sure that Muhammad was going to write his successor down on the paper? And how can you be sure about your fifth point? Could Umar have had other intentions? Or could he have just screwed up, with no "evil" intentions behind it?

Salaam and Shalom.

Netzari,

The Prophet pbuh had explicitly named Ali (as) verbally, earlier at the time of the Last Pilgrimage. That's why Umar, Abu Bakr, and the rest of the camp were in jitters, seeing their chance at Kingship slip away to the obviously more deserving, divinely appointed, infallible, magnanimous Imam. Hence the obvious, unjust attempt at preventing the writing of the will, lest the Prophet pbuh now write what he had said earlier.

How can you say Umar had no evil intentions? If his intentions were good, why did he prevent the giving of the pen and paper? What harm did Umar see in the pen and paper, especially considreing the fact that it is a grave sin to disobey the Prophet pbuh. After all, the Prophet pbuh must be obeyed in all times at all costs.

Netzari: suppose you were with Moses and he was dying in front of you. And he told you "please give me a pen and paper". What would come to your mind? would you instantly do as he were to say? or would you just stand around and argue about it? woould it come to your mind that when someone is dying, a request for pen and paper would in highest probability mean a will?

we know from many other Hadiths that Umar and Abu Bakr consistently opposed Ali (as) and his family (his wife the Prophet's daughter, and their children Imam Hasan (as) and Imam Hussain (as) ), on many different issues, not only caliphate, but a whole plethora of issues (see Challenges and Answers in http://www.answering-ansar.org )

#17 Netzari

Netzari

    !האַק מיר נישט קיין טשײַניק

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,485 posts
  • Location:Florida
  • Religion:Jewish/B'nei Noach
  • Interests:G-d. G-d is interesting.

Posted 13 May 2004 - 02:07 AM

How can you say Umar had no evil intentions?


I dunno. I was just thinking that maybe he was a little stupid or something.

Netzari: suppose you were with Moses and he was dying in front of you. And he told you "please give me a pen and paper". What would come to your mind? would you instantly do as he were to say? or would you just stand around and argue about it? woould it come to your mind that when someone is dying, a request for pen and paper would in highest probability mean a will?


Good point. But this brings up one little side question--I thought that Prophet Muhammad was illiterate. What would he need a pen and paper for? Or did he learn how to read and write before he died?

Thanks again akhi :)

#18 IWN

IWN

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPip
  • 654 posts

Posted 13 May 2004 - 02:14 AM

How can you say Umar had no evil intentions?


I dunno. I was just thinking that maybe he was a little stupid or something.

Netzari: suppose you were with Moses and he was dying in front of you. And he told you "please give me a pen and paper". What would come to your mind? would you instantly do as he were to say? or would you just stand around and argue about it? woould it come to your mind that when someone is dying, a request for pen and paper would in highest probability mean a will?


Good point. But this brings up one little side question--I thought that Prophet Muhammad was illiterate. What would he need a pen and paper for? Or did he learn how to read and write before he died?

Thanks again akhi :)

oh that is a myth that the Sunnis believe in.

We Shias don't believe the Prophet pbuh was illiterate.

you see, just to drive the point home, i urge you to look at the life of Imam Ali (as), and his abilities. He was the most amazing linguist, mathematician, theologian, and with a totally pure and blemishless character. But Ali (as) derived all his knowledge from the Prophet pbuh, because he stayed right in the Prophet pbuh 's house from childhood, and the Prophet pbuh brought him up, and later Ali (as) married the Prophet pbuh's daughter Fatima (as).

The Prophet pbuh said "I am the city of knowledge, and Ali is its gate"

And we consider Ali (as) to be lesser in rank than the Prophet pbuh.

so you can see for yourself if the Gate is so special, then what about the City itself? I think literacy becomes a trivial issue. OF COURSE HE WAS LITERATE :)

Edited by IWN, 13 May 2004 - 02:22 AM.


#19 alifaia

alifaia

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,523 posts
  • Location:Kuwait

Posted 13 May 2004 - 03:22 AM

salam all...

I always thot he was illiterate.... basically it was always liek "ok guys get a pen n paper and write what i dictate"... eg. the treaty of hudaybiya... Imam Ali did the writing... also whats the point of having so many scribes to write the revelations... He could just easily write them himself...

Anyways... back to main topic... the reason why aiesha got so paranoid was coz if Imam Ali were to become khalipha then there is no way anyone could get the leadership back into non Hashimite hands...

Also .... it doesnt concern her... matters of the state are to be handeled by men... there were tons of guys who knew what to do... solely depending on just aiesha to prove that Prophet said nothing is wishful thinking... Did the Prophet ever teach her on how to run a state??? as a matter of a fact didnt the Prophet warn her in not getting involved in matters of the state???

She was jelous... of Imam Ali... of the position he had... of the reverance he had with the people etc.....

typical woman behaviour....

ali

#20 Salih_A_A_Baity

Salih_A_A_Baity

    la illah lillah Muhammadurasulullah Aliyin waliyullah

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPip
  • 649 posts
  • Location:some place I dont want to be
  • Interests:Islam...what else?

Posted 13 May 2004 - 06:55 AM

salam all...

I always thot he was illiterate.... basically it was always liek "ok guys get a pen n paper and write what i dictate"... eg. the treaty of hudaybiya... Imam Ali did the writing... also whats the point of having so many scribes to write the revelations... He could just easily write them himself...

I dont want to get too off topic here but when when people say the Prophet pbuh &his progeney, was illiterate that means that he had no human teacher to teach him to read arabic or write arabic but only Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì was his teacher.

Illiterate= no human teacher

hence all knowledge came from Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì and only Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì

just thought I may clear that up a bit :D

BTW...i dont know how sunni's inturpret it but thats what I learned from my howza. ;)

Back to the topic at hand.

#21 GHULAAM E ABBAS

GHULAAM E ABBAS

    Ali Da Malang

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,734 posts
  • Location:Washington DC USA

Posted 13 May 2004 - 09:16 PM

to me studying sahi bukhari is like reading a book of weird and funny stuff.
after reading that book i dont blame sunnies why they are so IGNORRANT

#22 Gypsy

Gypsy

    Hal Min Nasirin Yansurna

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,509 posts
  • Interests:Exposing hypocrisy and double standards.

Posted 13 May 2004 - 09:25 PM

I think Bukhari made a mistake or maybe Ayesha forgot that she was behind a screen. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Remember Quranic Ayat 'O Wives of Prophet ...Speak behind of screen..because it maybe purer for you' Did Ayesha forget to screen herself from all those non-mahrem guys in the house?

Prophet(saw) died in the arms of Imam Ali(as) and most men who was present swear that they heard Prophet(saw) uttered this word 3 times "SALAT..SALAT..SALAT" (Even Sunni Sahih documented this event)

#23 zainabia

zainabia

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,831 posts
  • Location:Pakistan

Posted 15 June 2004 - 03:24 AM

Bismillah

Salam Alaikum

Please see this hadith:

http://www.shiachat....t&id=416748.gif

Translation:
========

Sunnan Abu Dawud, Kitab "AlSunnah", Chapter of "Babul Khulafa", vol. 2, page 401:

"Some one aske Safina, the companion of Rasool Allah (saw), that Bani Marwan think that Ali (as) was not the successor of Rasool Allah (saw). He replied that Bani Zarqa is telling a lie like his "Asfal اسفل " ( I don't have any idea what Asfal is). i.e. the grand mother of Bani Marwan was Zarqa, was a prostitute ....."

Attached Thumbnails

  • ali_successor.GIF

Edited by zainabia, 15 June 2004 - 03:30 AM.


#24 ShiaMujahid74

ShiaMujahid74

    Member

  • Banned
  • 94 posts

Posted 15 June 2004 - 03:30 AM

fear Allah when dealing with Aisha may Allah bless her face. This is a true hadith what does it prove? Some people thought Ali to be sucessor Ali wanted to be sucessor .. the point is he finnally gave allegiance why dont you all do the same.. Ali did it to not divide the ummah right? according to shia so why are you all still doing it today?

#25 Baatil Ka Kaatil

Baatil Ka Kaatil

    R.I.P Syed Ali Naqi

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,661 posts
  • Location:Khaak-E-Ahle Bayt (as)

Posted 15 June 2004 - 03:33 AM

fear Allah when dealing with Aisha may Allah bless her face. This is a true hadith what does it prove? Some people thought Ali to be sucessor Ali wanted to be sucessor .. the point is he finnally gave allegiance why dont you all do the same.. Ali did it to not divide the ummah right? according to shia so why are you all still doing it today?

Ali (as) was appointed by Rasool pbuh at the order of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì. Anyone who strived towards anything other than the order of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì is an enemy of Islam - Relations are not immune from such rules.



Reply to this topic



  


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users